A fools errand that further stretches rural health systems past the breaking point.
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Riddle me this: why are people buying land in the boonies to move out to one day?
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I'm not sure if this is still the case, but years ago, rural hospitals would entice doctors to work for them for an agreed upon length of time in exchange for paying off part or all of their student loans.
Not necessarily, - Armenia has very good cuisine, Russia itself happily absorbed all kinds of culinary delights from the countries and cultures they ruled, Kyrgyzstan has an incredible range of cuisines on offer - but I will concede that their (Georgian) cuisine is excellent, - Turkish and Iranian influences are evident - and they have quite a number of dishes that are unique to their culinary culture.
Also worth noting is that the actual cultural life in Tbilisi (art, ballet, opera, sculpture, jazz) is second to none; I loved my time there.
Personally, (as is often the case in countries that had been poor, or had experienced poverty,) in my experience, what was offered to guests - in homes, as well as restaurants - tended to be meat heavy (as a way of showing wealth and respect to guests).
This can become tiresome after a while - like many westerners, these days, I consume but a fraction of the meat I did when I was younger. And worse, Georgia (because of geography and climate) has amazing fruit and vegetables, both in range and quality; it is just that nobody believes that this is what you should be offered, when you are a guest - they think that this would show insufficient respect.
Personally, I actually prefer other dishes from their culinary repertoire although Katchapouri can be excellent, and I am partial to their Lobiani (bean stuffed bread) and their puri (naan style) bread; their formal meals are like an enormous meze platter:
Such as: Schmeruli: (a fantastic roasted chicken with garlic, butter and a little milk or cream) dish.
Ostri: An incredible (but hard to find) spicy beef stew with garlic.
Lobio: A fantastic bean dish. (Much of central Asia has something similar).
Khinkhali: Dumplings (delicious). Again, much of Asia has some version of this dish.
Badrijan: (Aubergine/eggplant (roasted, with garlic), again, delicious). Actually, they have several roasted aubergine/eggplant dishes - hard to find, unfortunately, but invariably delicious.
Shashlik: (Meat skewers - usually excellent).
They have wonderful sauces - a sour plum sauce, and tasty vegetarian pâtés, such as a crushed walnut and garlic paste, and a beetroot paste.
Their breads are terrific, and their wines are absolutely amazing.
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In America I live in Finger Lakes region and during the late fall to early spring the place is almost devoid of people, however we have high speed Internet, cable TV (sense 1972) and small school that still teaches the traditional way! Sure it's a bedroom community but we have a Dollar Store, gas station and sit down restaurant! Our population has increase in the last few years! Hosing prices have almost doubled!
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My 85 year old parents moved to center city Philadelphia from the suburbs in Tennessee. They love it, they’re close to culture, music, can take the bus anywhere they want, go to Penn for any medical procedures and can shop and go out to eat. If they can handle it, we may need to reconsider who we call snowflakes in the US.
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WHAT?!? Dallas is basically 1/3 the population of LA that being said I do not dispute the rather dramatic increase in the populations of cities in Texas (Austin) has overextended their infrastructure.
List of United States cities by population - Wikipedia
The US population went up about 7% over the last 10 years (2010-2020) so one could say that every city should have about 7% organic growth and based on that any city with less than 7% growth is losing population.
So are cities dying... no, but it seems we are seeing a shift in population from the largest of the large to the mid-tier.
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Anyone who leaves the big city for the middle of nowhere and believes that it makes them more self-reliant is kidding themselves. The vast majority will never fell and saw their own timber for their house or barn or smelt their own ore/smithy their nails, screws, and hinges (not to mention water pipes)... Even if they do heat solely with firewood from their own woodlot, chances are they still have factory-made stoves in which to burn it and likely are using something more mechanized than a bucksaw and axe to cut and split it. They're also mowing their lawns, tilling their garden plots, and cutting their brush with motorized equipment - their spreads are too big to do it all with hand tools. With the possible exception of random-rubble masonry and backfill, nearly everything used to build their cozy getaway is manufactured and trucked in, and the house is then raised by professionals. Very few are going to be dependent solely on crops they raise, nuts and berries they gather, and wildlife they shoot or trap. They may can or pickle some of their garden-plot produce, but more likely they're still stocking up on fresh and frozen veggies in the middle of winter from the not-so-nearby supermarket, and have one or more large factory-made freezers to preserve their kills.
Sure, distance from the conveniences, merchants, and tradespeople of town may lead to strategies for getting all in-town business done less frequently, but for the most part, they're not replacing that in-town business with DIY self-reliance.
Greater distances from town/neighbors, less traffic (until they head into town), etc., and doing a bit of hobbyist hunting/gathering/farming may give them a taste of self-reliance, but they wouldn't have a way to get into town without government built-and-maintained roads; they still rely on having a reasonably nearby town or city for a long laundry list of needs; their money is safely harbored in government-regulated financial institutions, they can rely on our laws and court system if they need to sue someone who injured or defrauded them. Without government, theft would not be a crime, it would be street justice or nothing. Someone else lays claim to your 40 acres, cuts timber on your lot, diverts the water from your stream... You ready to go after them and enforce your own justice? Without such government niceties as deeds, the only way you can keep your land is to defend it with force of arms.
Nearly anyone can handle their own first-aid, basic sanitation, etc. But when one does need medical assistance, the consequences could be dire. My aging, suburban aunt had the paramedics arrive within five minutes of her heart attack, and was at the hospital within another five. In her case, that short time interval was all that saved her. Not many rural dwellers are able to stitch a gaping wound or set broken bones. Home remedies don't suffice if an infection sets in or pain is unbearable. Forget COVID, it's just one in a long list of killing illnesses that can only effectively be treated by modern medicine - hope your water supply is clean! If you want to live to enjoy long years of retirement in your rural paradise, you need access to the amenities of the town/city.
We, and our cousins and ancestors the great apes (and I'm fairly certain, all primates) are social beings living in packs, tribes, clans, and similar groups. There have been laws of one sort or other since the first patriarch/matriarch had to settle a dispute between their offspring (I gave that food to your sister, you can't take it from her!). They/we cooperate for common defense, foraging/hunting, skill-specialization, building/maintaining shelter... and our species in particular, once it learned to farm, aggregated into larger communities that amplified the benefits of living and (mostly) cooperating in close proximity to each other. Stockaded towns were safer than isolated farmsteads if a group of marauders arrived. The efficiencies of farming meant others were free to develop crafts and services that made daily life more stable and comfortable. One thing leads to another, and eventually we have cities and manufactured goods. And from the start, the wealthy had the means to buy themselves extra space, away from the madding (and sometimes maddening) crowd. Whether it was a Roman's seaside villa, the country life of Jane Austen's heroines, or the kind of urban escapee that's been described in this thread, there's always been a huge difference between the landed gentry and subsistence farmers.
And as someone who lives in a suburb near a major city, I'm not sure what government "intrusions" exist that wouldn't exist anywhere else. People in more rural areas of my state are subject to the same state and federal laws and taxes, and counties and rural towns still have similar bodies of laws and ordinances. You can live in an unincorporated area and be free of municipal ordinances, but federal, state, and county government remains - it's just farther away. Sure, you can probably add a bathroom without calling in the building and plumbing inspectors, but if you want to have the job done right (and maintain/enhance your resale value), they're not the worst intrusion of government into a homeowner's life.
The principle difference between rural, suburban, and urban is one of density - economies of both density and scale leave rural communities unable to deliver services that cities routinely provide (water and sewer systems, frequent police patrols, professional fire departments, etc.). So that means if you live outside of town you'll self-reliantly need your own septic tank and well rather than a city hook-up. Not very many of the "self-reliant" choose to do without running water and flush toilets.
Living as I do on a major street a block from the local police station and two from city hall I certainly see more government employees than I ever did when I spent my summers at my grandparents' lake house. However, they're not intruding into my life. They plow the snow, collect the trash, ticket drivers who u-turn in the middle of downtown... So if I compare that to the self-reliance of driving my own trash down to the dump, owning my own truck/tractor and plow so I can clear a long private driveway (and hope the county road crew comes by sometime soon after the snow has stopped falling, because they're only going to come by once per snowfall), waiting 30 minutes or more for an emergency response should my aging parent take another fall... That's deprivation, not self-reliance.
I have very little to say to my neighbors, but that would be true whether there was 20 feet separating our homes (which is my current situation), or a half-mile. I'm just not one to cultivate social relationships, despite the benefits that may come from doing so. While there are people who prey on others, there are far more who will lend a hand when a neighbor is in need, regardless of where they live. Crime would not be noteworthy if "everyone" did it. We have a civil society because most people voluntarily abide by the rules (even if we all occasionally don't). Some may believe that "natural" laws are enough and believe that rural communities will abide by those while city folk don't, but that's definitely not my experience. I have encountered good Samaritans and bad eggs wherever I go. Social isolation in a crowd is little different than social isolation in the boonies - everyone needs their space, and most people know enough to not butt in to other peoples' business without an invitation. But on a crowded city street, subway platform, or airliner people have a very small personal bubble and one must be far more mindful of not intruding into their neighbors' space.
The airliner is a pretty good microcosm what we're talking about here. All these private country estates are akin to private jets. You might consider First Class airline seats to be the suburbs, and Economy to be the city. The one extreme is far more comfortable than the other, but it comes at a luxury price that most of us can never contemplate.
Then is Business Class the elite areas of a city (NYC, Upper East Side; DC, Kalorama Heights)? And what about Premium Economy?
;-)
I could be wrong but I think you are presenting a bit of straw man argument here. I do not think that many people who advocate leaving city life necessarily mean to escape from many of of the things you mention. For example, I am not sure that anyone here is saying that self-reliant means they want to "fell and saw their own timber for their house or barn or smelt their own ore/smithy their nails, screws, and hinges (not to mention water pipes)" or that escape from government intrusion or rules means a desire not to use highways or roads or essential services like police, fire or healthcare.
I mean, really, there is a continuum that we are talking about when thinking about leaving a major city -- and it's not necessary to jump all the way to the extremes. I have lived in a major city all my adult life. There are certainly pros and cons and I can understand how some people view the cons as out weighing the pros -- and vice versa for that matter.
There seems to be two kinds of Business Class. One is a de-stigmatized First Class - the kind that offers suites on international/long haul flights. Calling that "Business" is like calling the populations of The Upper East Side and Kalorama Heights working class because they draw salaries (62% of Kalorama Heights households have masters degrees or higher, while Upper East Siders have a piddling 43%). The Business Class I encounter on shorter flights seems a variant on Premium Economy/Comfort Plus (or however the airline chooses to brand it). Damn, on at least one airline I fly you can't recline the seats in Economy.The people who earn right around the Upper East Side/Kalorama Heights median household incomes ($134K/$175K) would certainly be in First/Business Class rather than private jets, but let's be clear - the Upper East Side (encompassing over 250 city blocks) has a population of over 200K, while Kalorama Heights is just 2K. Some sub-neighborhoods on the East Side undoubtedly have median incomes far above the area's already lofty average. On those blocks I'd wager there are plenty of folks whose airport of choice is Teterboro (nearest private jet airport to Manhattan).
Back in the '70s when I worked on the Upper East Side you could still find fairly cheap apartments there (and you could still find good German food in Yorkville). For the most part, the low rents were found between First Ave. and York in the 60s and 70s, maybe between Lex and York in the 80s and 90s. I had a brief fling with someone who lived in Yorkville east of First who had a bathtub in the kitchen and a shared toilet out in the hallway (and no, that's not the reason for the breakup). I haven't kept close tabs, but I'm pretty sure most of that old apartment stock has gentrified since then.
I agree with the assessments of a 'straw man' argument, and the existence of a continuum.
There truly is no absolute dissociation from 'the benefits of civilization' when living in a more rural area. There is however, a willingness to accept that things will never be as convenient as in a built-up area. It is a choice that is not right for everyone, and I understand both sides (city/rural).We didn't all move out to become 'self-sufficient', but in some ways, we are more 'self-reliant'. I've accumulated enough 'toys' to help in that regard.
Suggesting that those who choose rural settings are parasitical is wrong. Rural tax dollars get routed to cities for street repairs, while we suffer pot-holes. Snow plowing? Ha. Police coverage? yeah, maybe in 30-40 minutes by which time all they will do is write a report. No one denies that our legal systems are necessary, but that is mostly after the fact. Most of my neighbors are also well armed and no, we don't call 9-1-1 for a bump in the night.
Personal space and social interactions? Some need (or want) more, some less. I know my neighbors, they know me. We help each other when needed in the best of pack, tribe, clan traditions. yet, we've manage to avoid clustering behind a stockade. Density is a benefit up to a point. My feeling is that you can only pack so many faceless rats into a box with limited resources before dire things happen. (insert major city here)
Systems that are taken for granted do fail, and due to demand, "...Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold.." To be totally truthful, city and suburban dwellers are only denying their own vulnerabilities to loss of water, electrical, gasoline, 'services' and such. Imagine you're 9 stories up with no power, will your nearness to a affected hospital structure really lessen your risks at that point? Suburban? I suppose one might not need a well and septic, but likely the sub-division has simply plugged into the same flawed city systems.
Perhaps the benefits of rural living is an illusion, then again, so are the benefits of dense pack living. We all bring intangibles to the Table of Decision. We easily fall into the trap of defensiveness and needing to convince others that our viewpoint is the 'correct' one. No need. Both sides have benefits and flaws. Choose per your rankings of worth. Rural living does not require large acreage, I see many locally on less than 5 acres. Although, the concept of 'Landed Gentry' is sort of cool...
Something else to consider when it comes to those moving out of the cities and into other areas, even if the country: Lower Cost of Living, which has been somewhat discussed here. A micro version of this for an example:
Everyone knows how expensive it is to live in the Bay Area. You've all heard stories of the $3000/month rent for a 700 square foot apartment, if not over $1 million for a 1200 sq. foot home in the Bay Area. You're dealing with population density, and lack of land/homes which will drive those prices up (and let's not even go into flood and earthquake insurance)...
So because of that (during COVID, pre-COVID, or otherwise), employees - especially in the IT sector - have preferred to move out of the Bay area and into more of the Central Valley of California (Stockton, Modesto, Fairfield, Vacaville, even Elk Grove/Sacramento), and prefer to drive into the Bay Area every day for work. Yes, this requires them to get up at around 3am (that's when the traffic reports start) to beat the rush into the Bay for work, and leave to drive back out to get home; both ways being a 3-4 hour journey with the flow of traffic. Wash/rinse/repeat each day. The counter to this, however, is the tradeoff in gas and time to get to work and back, causing this plan to break even annually.
Why do that? Homes are cheaper outside the Bay area versus in the Bay area. And that's relatively speaking, because of how expensive it is to live in California.
Buying land and moving out to the country is a macro version of what is happening in the Bay area. Granted that for most jobs in the time of COVID location doesn't matter, people are taking advantage of being able to work remotely and get out while they can, which is driving up prices of homes and land where it is available. I've had offers for land my father has in his name that are 3 - 4 times as much as they would have been 6 years ago, all because that migrating out of cities is so hot right now. the tradeoff seen in the Bay area isn't as even as it is in other parts of the country, so the advantage in moving is greater than the tradeoff.
BL.
Everyone knows how expensive it is to live in the Bay Area. You've all heard stories of the $3000/month rent for a 700 square foot apartment, if not over $1 million for a 1200 sq. foot home in the Bay Area. You're dealing with population density, and lack of land/homes which will drive those prices up (and let's not even go into flood and earthquake insurance)...
So because of that (during COVID, pre-COVID, or otherwise), employees - especially in the IT sector - have preferred to move out of the Bay area and into more of the Central Valley of California (Stockton, Modesto, Fairfield, Vacaville, even Elk Grove/Sacramento), and prefer to drive into the Bay Area every day for work. Yes, this requires them to get up at around 3am (that's when the traffic reports start) to beat the rush into the Bay for work, and leave to drive back out to get home; both ways being a 3-4 hour journey with the flow of traffic. Wash/rinse/repeat each day. The counter to this, however, is the tradeoff in gas and time to get to work and back, causing this plan to break even annually.
Why do that? Homes are cheaper outside the Bay area versus in the Bay area. And that's relatively speaking, because of how expensive it is to live in California.
Buying land and moving out to the country is a macro version of what is happening in the Bay area. Granted that for most jobs in the time of COVID location doesn't matter, people are taking advantage of being able to work remotely and get out while they can, which is driving up prices of homes and land where it is available. I've had offers for land my father has in his name that are 3 - 4 times as much as they would have been 6 years ago, all because that migrating out of cities is so hot right now. the tradeoff seen in the Bay area isn't as even as it is in other parts of the country, so the advantage in moving is greater than the tradeoff.
BL.
I think maybe the point @ApfelKuchen was trying to make was one of independence in general by extreme example.
If your intent is to move rural while dragging along suburban/urban conveniences then you aren't really moving out there to be independent. You're just trying to put people beyond arms distance. And if the cost of that is reduced services, it's one some people are willing to pay.
I didn’t read through all of the replies, so I apologize in advance. I’ve lived in the same area/county for about 3/4 of my life. My parents spent about 40 years in the area before they did exactly what this post is about.
In that time span, a lot of things change. A 2-lane “rural” road is expanded into a 6-lane highway. A 4-way stop is built into a huge intersection with displaced left turn lanes to handle the immense growth. There is no public transportation outside of the downtown area. Our metro area has terrible traffic, but we consistently vote down expanding it because “those people” might come our way. Even local traffic is abysmal and it takes 30+ minutes to travel 2 miles in the suburbs.
Our city planning is almost non-existent in the states, and the urban sprawl is out of control. In some circumstances, moving out to “the country” is a stop-gap at best because the sprawl is already headed that way.
For some, housing close to downtown is cost prohibitive, though I think that too many people have an infatuation with “stuff” and so bigger houses are needed to store it all. Housing is cheaper the further out you go. (Plus people here don’t want to live near the housing projects, anyway.)
In that time span, a lot of things change. A 2-lane “rural” road is expanded into a 6-lane highway. A 4-way stop is built into a huge intersection with displaced left turn lanes to handle the immense growth. There is no public transportation outside of the downtown area. Our metro area has terrible traffic, but we consistently vote down expanding it because “those people” might come our way. Even local traffic is abysmal and it takes 30+ minutes to travel 2 miles in the suburbs.
Our city planning is almost non-existent in the states, and the urban sprawl is out of control. In some circumstances, moving out to “the country” is a stop-gap at best because the sprawl is already headed that way.
For some, housing close to downtown is cost prohibitive, though I think that too many people have an infatuation with “stuff” and so bigger houses are needed to store it all. Housing is cheaper the further out you go. (Plus people here don’t want to live near the housing projects, anyway.)
That was even the premise for the TV show "Northern Exposure" back in the '90s. Many states had programs like that, and in 2007, the federal government made it nation-wide: the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program. However, it has been so horribly mismanaged that a lot of teachers and health care workers who went to underserved communities based on promises of loan forgiveness got screwed over. The denial rate under the previous administration was over 99 percent. There have been many articles written about the often vague or nonsensical reasons people who should have qualified for forgiveness were consistently denied, and there have been lawsuits against both the Department of Education and student loan providers who gave false or misleading instructions to applicants which made them ineligible. The current administration made it a priority to get PSLF back on track, but I'd say it's still too early to bank on it actually working. The bait-and-switch many professionals experienced after a decade of working toward the goal hurt the ability of rural hospitals (and schools) to recruit talented workers. I certainly couldn't, in good conscience, advise a young doctor, PA or nurse to take a lower-paying job for 10 years in hopes of getting their loans forgiven when so few people have actually benefitted from the program so far.
Just because you're living in a rural area doesn't mean you're too far away from decent amenities. A friend of mine lives in a rural area. Nearest level 2 trauma center hospital is about 20 minutes away, nearest grocery store is 10 minutes away. It's also a college town, though probably not a university you've heard of.
I guess it just depends on how you feel about it.
When I lived rural in the 80s, the nearest mall and book store was 20 minutes away. At 70mph down Interstate 10.
Getting my dad to transport me (a teenager then) to a mall for a few hours meant two 40 minute drives for him. No f*ing way. Go play outside where there are no sidewalks kid.
Nearest grocery? A small market, stocked only with basic items. A 15 minute ride by bicycle. 25-30 minute return because it's all uphill on dirt streets rutted out because of rain. Oh and one handed because you have a grocery bag in your arm.
Main grocery? 10 minutes by car.
Starbucks in the 90s? Yeah, inside the grocery store that only opened in 1990 (I was there when they opened that Albertsons) and that was 20 minutes away.
So, now I live in a major city. Grocery store, less than 5 minutes. Walmart, 7mins. FOUR STARBUCKS in my immediate area, one only 5 mins away. Home Depot, 5 mins. When I lived rural that was 30 mins - when San Bernardino, CA finally GOT a home improvement store.
Restaurants, gas stations, stores, all within 5 minutes. Three major hospitals within 10 minutes. You want a major trauma hospital rural in the 1980s when I lived there? 30 minutes to Loma Linda University Hospital. If you're doing 80 to 100mph down the 10, you could probably get that down to 15-20mins.
Urban for me.
20 minute drive to healthcare is not really encouraging in the midst of emergency (and traffic), especially when you are already in your later stages in life when getting up and walking is already a challenge (let alone driving).
And a college town is not neccessarily the "boonies" imo. A college town would have amenities tailored to, college students (being the best probably being cheap food). But then again, it won't be tailored for a senior citizen.
I guess I have been spoiled, having been living in dense cities. Grocery store, ATMs and banks, health clinics, and dentists are all within walking distances for me. The downside is probably just smaller living quarters, which is a dealbreaker for some people. In that case, I understand the choice.
My son attends ASU in Tempe. Tempe is a college town, but just one city in the greater Phoenix metro (the Valley). Every amenity he could want is directly on campus, several times over. And every kind of restaurant, coffee shop, book store, etc, etc surrounds the campus.
Although my son does not live on campus (he goes there for classes and comes home) he doesn't ever have to leave campus to get what he wants - it's all right there. He barely even has to walk to it.
I envy my kids some times because they got to grow up where everything is within reach.
As to healthcare…I worked with a lady once who set a land speed record from a mountain town to Phoenix when a cousin of her's was bleeding out. Well over a 100mph down the I-17 freeway. She got there in time (she had a Nissan 280z) and was very proud of that fact.
This is a stretch and a major exaggeration, but roll with it. I’ll submit to you the city of Las Vegas. Yes, it’s a tourist trap, but think about it this way. Once you get underneath the glamor of The Strip, it’s a glorified college town. Once you get underneath the glamour of the university, it’s a glorified retirement community. Half of Henderson and nearly all of Summerlin are all retirement communities.
Again, it’s a bit in jest, but there’s too much truth in that. So yes, a college town can be tailored to seniors; it's just that one college town in particular is suited to seniors and a hell of a lot more than that. ?
This is where moving out of the densely populated areas is an advantage. I don't know if I've said it here in this thread, but even if I have, I'll say it again: I've always subscribed to the mindset of "If I can not get from one end of town to the other within 25-30 minutes, the town is too big to live in". Everywhere I have lived, I have been able to make it completely across town within that period, which is doable. Nearly every mid-sized town in the midwest meets that: Omaha, Des Moines, Tulsa, Kansas City, Oklahoma City, Louisville. St. Louis is pushing it, but is still somewhat doable. I haven't been to Minneapolis to judge. Milwaukee fits that bill. Amazingly enough, as much as it has grown, Las Vegas still fits that bill.
However, the more denser the population, the more the town expands, and the longer it takes to get from one side of town to the other. It takes me an hour to go from Emeryville to Cupertino. It's an hour in driving distance alone from LAX to Ontario, to catch I-15 to head to Vegas. I've only been to Chicago once, when I was 4, and it was too big for me then.
But if one is looking for the best of both worlds, in having both the space as well as close proximity to requirements and amenities, I'd be leaving the big cities and heading to the midwest as well. In fact, I'm already in the planning stages of it.
BL.
It takes some time for a young person to become financially independent and move out of home. In general, there is a chance for one to achieve greater wealth through the years as one gets older. Regardless of place or location, the place is like living inside a bubble where all experiences, including those we like or dislike take place from day to day. Even married couples living together have dissimilar experiences now and then. One may like the place, while the other may dislike it, but sometimes both like the place (my wife and I love where we live at: semi-rural, large lot around our house, moose and other wildlife near, clean air, and sometimes Auroras on the night sky). Sometimes some of the family members (young age or adult) dislike the place they live at, while others do.
When living in the Big Apple as a teenager, I didn’t have to work full-time for a living since I was single and being supported by my parents. In those years dating as much as possible was fun, so I had plenty of happy experiences; as such I could not dislike the place. But once I moved out of the city to the rural areas of Northern NY and Burlington, VT, I realized the following: The air that I was breathing now was cleaner, the stars at night were brighter, the people were friendlier, I didn’t have to worry about being “mugged,”about my car parked on the street being stolen, nor about finding that my belongings missing when returning to my apartment from work. I was in my early twenties by then, and looking at my life in NYC, from outside in.
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Hmmm...Take a look at the long lives a lot of older folks around sort of rural areas in Newport, Washington compared to Seattle (for example). My wife's father was till driving a small truck by the age of 89. By then his mind was a little "fuzzy" so my wife's mother didn't allow him to drive. He died almost ate the age of 96. She is still walking around (using a walker), handless her finances, and works part-time at a local museum. A lot of people in that area have very long lives
Widening rural-urban disparities in life expectancy, U.S., 1969-2009 - PubMed
Between 1969 and 2009, residents in metropolitan areas experienced larger gains in life expectancy than those in nonmetropolitan areas, contributing to the widening gap.pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
and the disparity is growing. Access to healthcare drives a lot of it.
But then, in the boonies, strangers are less likely to relieve themselves outside your front door. Depends on your priorities, I guess….
And the McMansion living you’re describing isn’t really city living. You can’t walk to dinner, but you still have to hear the neighbors’ parties and please the HOA. I suspect the people you’re describing may have preferred rural living all along but compromised on the suburbs because that’s where the better schools are for their kids. Moving to the boonies is the dream that keeps them going until they can finally exit the rat race.
By the way, my father-in-law was an Army Chaplin during WWII. His breakfast consisted of "bacon and eggs," coffee with creamer and lots of sugar, plus toasted bread.
Newport, WA Demographic Data | Homefacts
Complete demographic breakdown for Newport, WA Pend Oreille County including data on race, age, education, home values, rent, and more.
I believe that stress leads to death a lot sooner than later. A lot of people in rural areas, specially the ones who are now retired and out of the city, don't stress as much. My wife's grandmother died at the age of 88 in 1988. Her grandfather died in 1977 in his late '80's. They were hard-working farmers. Another lady that my wife and I know, is still alive at the age of 98
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In the mid-90s I was living in Cherry Valley, California. Work was in Ontario, California. That was a 45 minute drive. Around that time Starbucks started opening their stores in SoCal. The first in my area (area being defined as San Gorgonio Pass and Redlands/San Bernardino) was in Ontario (Ontario Mills Mall area).
You gotta get through Colton and Fontana too.
45 minutes to get a cup of Starbucks coffee. 45 minutes to get back. By 1999 guess where the closest Starbucks was? Palm f*ing Springs! 30 GD minutes away. It wasn't until 2000 when Starbucks showed up in Redlands - 20 minutes away.
And where I lived? Oh you want coffee? Go down to Yum Yums or McDonalds, buy fricking Folgers at Stater Bros. There's your coffee!
F* rural, F* Cherry Valley, Banning and Beaumont. I ain't ever going back (to live there) to those places and I ain't going to live rural ever again. You cannot possibly pay me enough to deal with small town mentality and lack of convenience.
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Not my experience, except for the cleaner air and stars.
Most of the people I dealt with were busybodies. You can't do anything without anyone either knowing your business or demanding to know your business. Gossiping, backstabbing, outright lying and freezing people out. Small town politics controlled by self-absorbed and greedy people. These were people who ostracized you if you didn't believe the way they did or behave the way they expected you to. Education was a way out - but don't go back because you might end up challenging the status quo and they don't want that. They take pride in never changing and never giving in to the conveniences and amenities that have corrupted city folk and their big cities.
My dad moved us rural because it was cheaper to live there, but a lot of the people there made you pay for it. It took moving to Phoenix, AZ (a major city) to discover actual friendly people.
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