Ridley Scott Comments on Epic Games' Parody of His '1984' Ad

[omihek]

Epic Games has defied the App Store Monopoly. In retaliation, Apple is blocking Fortnite from a billion devices.

Epic Games has defied gravity by jumping off a building. In retaliation, gravity splatted them all over the ground.

What Epic said sounds just as stupid as this.

 

[omihek]

People keep using this argument, yet there are thousands and thousands of free apps on the Apple app store.

How is Apple recovering their app store operating costs from them when the apps are free or when Apple doesn't get a cut of the subscription service fee like with the Netflix app?

Maybe Apple should have some sort of way to make money off the developers who only make free apps. Some sort of fee that they charge regularly to developers to keep their free apps on the App Store. We could call it the Developer Program fee, or something like that. I would suggest $100 a year. Actually, let's make it $99, that looks better, not as many digits. Anyone know how we can get this suggestion to Apple?

 

[PickUrPoison]

Apple are known to have large profit margins. Some companies absorb a little bit of costs to keep prices stable and reasonable. Apple always pass costs onto the consumer.

I believe iPhones have a profit margin of like 40% this could easily drop to 30% in order to lower iPhone prices, which are currently on the ridiculous scale.

I'm sure the 30% App Store fee is way above what they actually need to make a healthy profit and cover overheads.

No one can say exactly what the profit margin on iPhone might be, but Apple’s gross margin is about 29.8% across all hardware. iPhone is a major chunk of Apple’s revenue, gm can’t be that far off 30% for the iPhone segment.

 

[UK-MacAddict]

Apple didn't seem to have any problem breaking a contract with Qualcomm when Apple decided the royalties were too much.

If Apple didn't like the contract terms for royalty payments, then Apple should have stopped selling iPhones with their Qualcomm's IP.

If you look back at my comments when this happened I totally agreed Qualcomm was in the right to sue Apple. Apple did break the contract and they deserved to be sued.

Apple actually stop selling phones with Qualcomm modems for a couple of generations. They were using Intel modems for 2-3 years I believe even though they were vastly inferior to Qualcomm. They would have continued to do so if Intel weren't so rubbish and couldn't produce a decent 5G modem.

When Intel couldn't provide what Apple needed they settled the lawsuit and went crawling back to Qualcomm and signed a long term supply deal.

However at the same time they purchased Intels modem IP, so they are researching and designing their own modems and they will likely stop using Qualcomm tech later down the line.

 

[SoN1NjA]

I really don't understand this. No-one is stopping Epic Games from launching their own phone, OS, and App Store. If that were the case, fair play. But it's not. What an entitled company they must be. I hope Apple never gives in to their bullying. They need to pay up like everyone else, or just sell through other platforms instead.

Jesus Christ

So lemme ask this, if creating a competing company in a market with a monopoly or duopoly is so easy, then why wouldn’t Samsung or Microsoft (Microsoft is $1T+ company I’ll remind you) do it?

 

[Vistion123]

Microsoft tried—REALLY HARD—and failed. If Microsoft cannot create a profitable new phone, phone OS or a phone App Store, then this proves Apple and Android have an impenetrable monopoly over phone consumer devices.

So your argument falls flat in the face of evidence.

If you can’t beat ‘em, join them, is really the only choice everybody—EVERYBODY—has.

1st, Microsoft had phone based OS well before iOS or Android even existed, and it was crap.
2nd, Epic, if it was so inclined could try to make a phone and attempt to eek out iOS or Android. All they have to do is design it better. Or like Fortnight just copy the exact same thing and add a gimmick.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Maybe Apple should have some sort of way to make money off the developers who only make free apps. Some sort of fee that they charge regularly to developers to keep their free apps on the App Store. We could call it the Developer Program fee, or something like that. I would suggest $100 a year. Actually, let's make it $99, that looks better, not as many digits. Anyone know how we can get this suggestion to Apple?

If Epic gets their way and Apple starts getting 0% instead of 30% from all developers, that nominal $100 fee might go to a minimum of $10,000 or so, with large developers like Epic paying tens of millions of dollars.

There are various business models Apple could utilize, they don’t need to use a revenue sharing model 🤷‍♂️

 

[69Mustang]

Well Steve Jobs had a way of convincing people the Mac would change the world.

I think it did, others would disagree I’m sure.

That's a hindsight observation. When that commercial was made there was no way to foresee Apple's affect on the world. It was a commercial made to advertise Macs. Sell computers. It wasn't a statement about any important social issue going on in the world in the early 80's. So Scott thinking that Epic should have done something significant with the same material he used to sell computers... not really buying it. As you say, others may disagree.

 

[PickUrPoison]

That's a hindsight observation. When that commercial was made there was no way to foresee Apple's affect on the world. It was a commercial made to advertise Macs. Sell computers. It wasn't a statement about any important social issue going on in the world in the early 80's. So Scott thinking that Epic should have done something significant with the same material he used to sell computers... not really buying it. As you say, others may disagree.

My observation is hindsight.

Jobs, however, was telling anyone who would listen starting in the early 80s. He really believed the Mac would change the world. And it did, imo.

 

[UK-MacAddict]

38% gross profit margins are not large margins at gross, when talking margin rate. One of the reasons why people think its huge is due to Apple's scale. 38% gross on a $1000 device is $380. But when you sell 50M devices, the dollar amounts are large. Not to mention that Apple only lives on gross margins in the public's eye. The more important numbers are the net margins, the true profit. Those are closer to 23%. So in theory, reducing your margins on phone by 10% without taking any other costs out and operating normally would mean Apple's net margin drops to 13%. There is no reason to even consider doing this while the demand for your product is still high. Apple's phone prices are in line with Samsung and others. But that's not the point.
The point being is the notion that the 30% fee for the app store is "greedy".

Apples cash reserves stand at close to $200 billion dollars, I'm sure they have a very healthy net profit margin. Thats cash in hand not tied to anything. They can afford to absorb some costs and not pass them onto the customer.

I see Samsungs price increases as a case of copying Apple as always, they see Apple getting away with it so they just copy.

I believe 30% is greedy and should be more 20-25%.

 

[citysnaps]

That is a complete parody of their position. Epic are in the business of selling games, not hardware or ecosystems. From their point of view, selling their work on iOS gives them a big market, but their essential argument is that it is punishingly expensive to sell it there. They are entitled to have an opinion.

In that case, simply don't sell it there. There's a house across the street that's for sale. It's too much money, punishingly expensive, and I can't afford it. Wahhhhh...

As an aside, 30% is reasonable. Epic is having a good whine. Wahhhh...

 

[PickUrPoison]

Jesus Christ

So lemme ask this, if creating a competing company in a market with a monopoly or duopoly is so easy, then why wouldn’t Samsung or Microsoft (Microsoft is $1T+ company I’ll remind you) do it?

It’s not easy, and Apple has spent billions, probably tens of billions, making it a continuing success.

But Epic wants access to Apple’s ecosystem without paying for it. That’s not fair.

 

[TVreporter]

The ad was funny — they were planning this stunt well in advance. Execution of their plan has been pathetic.

 

[UK-MacAddict]

Lets not all feel too sorry for Epic Games, a company which filed a lawsuit against a 14 year old boy for cheating lol. They are known for overreacting and trying sue and bully everyone who they deem to have breached their policies.

Now they are calling Apple the bullies...

 

[antiprotest]

I do think 30% cut is a bit greedy from Apple. But at the same time nobody is forcing Epic to use the platform.

In this particular case Epic broke the contract end of story, should be nothing here to argue.

What would Epic Games do if a developer did not want to pay the 12% Epic Games Store fee and only gave them 6%?

I see people saying Apple is greedy, or Epic is greedy, or both are greedy. But "greedy" is a subjective judgment. Yes, I would assume that Apple is making a profit from the 30%, and Epic is also making a profit with their cut. But I don't know their costs and expenses, so I can't even say if either company meets my subjective judgment of being greedy, and I don't think any outsider can make such a judgment, without knowing the actual numbers. I do think that Apple has a right to charge whatever they want, greedy or not, and Epic has a right to decide whether to participate.

 

[jhollington]

Agree 100% about the guidelines but sadly it’s not the case, even if Cook claims it is, and we have proof that Epic tried to resolve this civilly before going for this stunt but Apple is in such a powerful place so they have no reason to budge.

I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say that Epic tried to resolve the matter civilly, since they were very obviously asking Apple for something that they had to know Apple wasn't going to go for.

Read the email from Tim Sweeney that was sent to Apple's executive team. It's absolutely laughable what Epic seemed to be asking Apple to do — not only did Epic expect Apple to let them set up their own parallel App Store, but it expected Apple to give their App Store the same full core-level access to iOS, or as Sweeney's email put it, "equal access to underlying operating system features for software installation and update as the iOS App Store itself has." Sweeney also made it very clear that he expected that Apple should offer all of this for free, "without Apple's fees."

Sweeney's subsequent emails were no better, basically just telling Apple that they were going to go ahead and do whatever they wanted to do anyway.

I doubt Sweeney was delusional enough to expect that Apple would actually go for any of this, so it was obvious he was trying to set Apple up from the very beginning. It's like me demanding that somebody give me their house for free, and then when they say "of course not," moving in and saying, "Well, I did ask nicely..."

(As an aside, it's also amusing to note that Sweeney probably sent the same letter to Google, since his closing paragraph says: "If we do not receive your confirmation, we will understand that Apple is not willing to make the changes necessary to allow us to provide Android customers with the option of choosing their app store and payment processing system." [emphasis mine]).

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

I don't understand that argument. Perhaps it would help to know how much Epic would have to spend if they distributed their games through Game Stop or Target or Walmart. They'd need to provide physical copies with packaging. They'd need to ship the packages to the stores. They'd need to monitor the sales. Apple handles all of that for them virtually in the App Store, and Epic has so far done quite well that way. Epic's argument looks to me like greed. They want the benefits of the App Store but want to keep all the revenue for themselves.

As far as their "monopoly" argument, there are (as others have said) plenty of other outlets for their games. If they want access to iOS users, then Apple is within its rights to charge for that access.

Would it make you happier if Epic charged $1.99 for their app so Apple gets their 30% for everything you say they do, but then in-app purchases are processed by Epic (which has nothing to do with Apple since the game and IAP's are not on Apple servers at that point)? That seems fair.

The problem most people have is since the game is free, that Apple isn't getting paid. So, make it $1.99. Apple gets their 60 cents, and their part is done.

As the hundreds (or is it thousands?) of store analogies here go, once you walk out of the store (Walmart is used as an example frequently), Walmart is done with you. Whatever you do with the item including if you use it to make money is all yours since Walmart has nothing to do with that. Right?

 

[LimitR]

The only people that are still playing Fortnite after the original craze let alone whining about the App Store ban, are helpless loot box addicts. So many better games you could be playing. Fortnite has run its course.

 

[ader42]

Also I don't agree with them refusing Microsofts Project XCloud. That was clearly Apple being anti competitive. Its essentially a Netflix for games and they had no issue putting Netflix in the store.

I don’t think you can equate Netflix with a game streaming service. Netflix content is passively consumed video that has been through a legalised ratings process so kids don’t easily get exposed to adult horror movies for example. Streaming gaming services like Steam contain a lot of unregulated (and in same cases illegal in some countries) pornographic material with no controls over access.

I note how Apple do not prohibit the Shadow.tech app which is intended to be used for personal game streaming.

I think Microsoft or Steam or anyone else should make web-apps if they don’t fit the native app-store guidelines, but they’re too lazy and don’t want to have to do the marketing for web-based products, similar to Epic before they put Fortnite in the Play Store.

 

[Bistroengine]

Alien...terrifc. Alien 2...terrific...everything after Alien 3..."eeh".

 

[ian87w]

Apples cash reserves stand at close to $200 billion dollars, I'm sure they have a very healthy net profit margin. Thats cash in hand not tied to anything. They can afford to absorb some costs and not pass them onto the customer.

I see Samsungs price increases as a case of copying Apple as always, they see Apple getting away with it so they just copy.

I believe 30% is greedy and should be more 20-25%.

Why not 15%?

 

[bayelrey80]

Jesus Christ

So lemme ask this, if creating a competing company in a market with a monopoly or duopoly is so easy, then why wouldn’t Samsung or Microsoft (Microsoft is $1T+ company I’ll remind you) do it?

It's not easy, hence why Epic pays 30%. Like you, I don't like the argument of "make your own phone and store" either. Samsung doesn't make Android. Microsoft failed for a variety of reasons. None of that means Apple should make 0%, which is what Sweeney wants.

 

[Naraxus]

Good on Epic. Keep up the good fight. Apple absolutely has a monopoly on iOS and needs to be made to open it up. For those who disagree answer these questions:

1. Where can I get apps for my Android devices?

and

2. Where can I get apps for my iOS devices?

Hopefully Congress will keep up the heat on Apple.

The world stands with Epic! #FreeFortnite

 

[seviu]

Apple is greedy and Apple App Store fees are `highway robbery` which is damaging the whole industry and especially the small developers.

I do not want more App Stores on our iPhones as Epic wants. But the 30% cut, on top of all development costs, means the death for many indie developers.

And let's not start with the fact that big names are blatantly violating the rules. Apple pushed Epic out of the app store because as a game they feel this decision is not damaging their business. They won't do the same with the likes of Netflix or Facebook. There is even proof that they give special treatment to them.

What makes the iPhone great? Apple and the App Store. Without Apps, nobody would buy an iPhone. And currently, developers are not happy. Most of them can barely make any money. One never knows when you will get a rejection because of some arbitrary rule. Or maybe the reviewer had a bad day. Who knows. This is preventing developers from even releasing even greater apps.

Just take a look at what recently happened with the WordPress app. Apple apologized because it got media attention. Sadly for one of these, there are many other apps which are rejected for unjust reason of which we hear nothing about.

And to whoever that suggests the web apps. Web apps are broken on iOS. And Apple forbids third-party browsers with proprietary engines in the App Store. All of them must make use of WebKit. There is zero chance we will see Steam or Microsoft releasing their streaming gaming platforms on iOS. And with 30% there is zero incentive. It is just not worth it.

It is time for Apple to change its rules. And I am for once am happy to see Epic fighting this fight.

 

[macsrcool1234]

I respect this guy’s opinion like anyone else. But just because he made a good Apple ad a long time ago does not mean he has the best take on this fundamental debate on App Store policies or should be given an elevated platform.

agreed, i doubt he even has any idea what this is all about. why would epic make it about democracy?