Riot Shuts Down Foxconn Plant, Impact on iPhone 5 Production Unclear

[gnasher729]

Clearly there is something very wrong with this factory. Suicides, strikes, riots, explosions, etc - what's next?. Some reports have suggested that the riot started because Foxconn guards beat an employee. It seems that no matter what Apple does to try and monitor the situation at this plant it just isn't working. I think it's about time Apple started to consider building their own factories in China.

Foxconn employs more than 1.2 million people in China. Guess what happens when you have 1.2 million employees: Anything that happens sometimes will happen. Now let's go through this:

Suicides: About 40,000 per year in the USA. I think 27 were reported at Foxconn. If the USA reduced their rate to the same as Foxconn, they would save more than 30,000 lives every year.

Strikes: Have there been strikes? Possibly. I don't know how old you are, but you live in a place that knows everything there is to know about strikes.

Riots: Look, this may be annoying to you, but did you have any riots recently in your country?

Explosions: There was an explosion in one of the many Foxconn plants. The same week there was a very similar explosion at Intel in the USA.

"Foxconn guards beat an employee": Any evidence? Especially any evidence that such a thing happened before the riot started? Just because you read it on the internet doesn't mean it's true.

 

[Lark.Landon]

Capitalism, sure. But does the definition of capitalism include slave labor? Would you support capitalism based on slave labor?

The workers at Foxx are not slaves. Your "argument" is null and void.

 

[gnasher729]

Actually - there were investigations. Samsung (just like Apple) will be auditing the plants they use - and end contracts if the plants are found to be in violation.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/sep/05/samsung-accused-exploiting-workers-china

I'll believe it when I see it. So far Samsung's attitude is that there is no evidence of child labour. Which is different from Apple, which has been looking for child labour, found child labour, reported it to the public, fixed what problems they found by returning people back to school and/or getting employees to pay compensation, and actually cancelling contracts, not just promising it, all since 2007.

 

[clibinarius]

Nothing to recommend. Simply people aren't allowed to complain about Foxconn if you buy Apple and other computer products.

Why not? They can complain and cause outcry. I mean you're right in that its not likely to cause the massive change. But what you're proposing is an all-or-nothing, zero compromise solution which isn't very productive to anybody involved...

 

[petsounds]

I'd love to see Apple spend some of their $100B+ on bringing their manufacturing back to the US. Of course then they'd have to pay US taxes on that money....

Still, American company - and most valuable in the world - would be awesome to have their products (if not fully) at least mostly made in the USA.

Steve Jobs wanted to. He brought it up to Obama [according to the Jobs bio] more than once. Jobs told Obama that the U.S. needs more skilled manufacturing engineers, the kind that can be taught in trade schools. But it's a bit simplified. That would enable us to assemble parts and products here in the U.S., but to make an entire iPhone here would require rebuilding the entire component supply chain. And that would take years.

I'm not sure if Tim Cook really cares. But I think Steve was pretty patriotic in his way, and was certainly very loyal to the Silicon Valley.

 

[samcraig]

I'll believe it when I see it. So far Samsung's attitude is that there is no evidence of child labour. Which is different from Apple, which has been looking for child labour, found child labour, reported it to the public, fixed what problems they found by returning people back to school and/or getting employees to pay compensation, and actually cancelling contracts, not just promising it, all since 2007.

Yeaaa. OK. Do you know how many contracts were actually cancelled? Further - do you know that appx 60% of the facilities failed inspection yet not 60% of the facilities' contracts were cancelled.

If you want to be a cynic - be a cynic across the board. Most companies will only what they must to escape the criticism/illegalities faced. Apple is no different. They might have better marketing. But that's not the same.

 

[MBrandonLee]

I guess that's why so many people have dented iPhone 5's

=P

 

[linuxcooldude]

Not such a bad example - Oakley's founder started Red Digital Camera, who assemble their products (high end electronic and optical equipment) in California, and are investing in a new plant in Nevada. These are prime foxconn style items. So it is possible, and it doesn't have the crushing impact on bottom line that many expect.

Red cameras are priced way too high for an average consumer. They don't have to provide a demand on the level of iPhones/iPads. So yes, they can easily do production in the the USA.

 

[clibinarius]

What part about that don't you understand. The very basis of capitalism is the ability to freely negotiate "bargaining" with vendors for the best price. Therefore allowing my company and companies like Apple to make a profit as they see fit. Paying people better and demanding Apple build factories in the US is about as communist as it gets. Paying uneducated, lazy white trash that all bitch about $8 an hour vs educating themselves and learning any sort of trade skill is the problem in the states. The government basically offers free college education via student loans to those less fortunate but they would rather bitch and moan and drink/smoke up any money they have then get up and better themselves.

Just to make sure you fully understand the definition...



Definition of CAPITALISM

: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market

Priviate decision... aka Apple gets to choose where they have their products built. Not blackmailed into some unions workers BS desire to make $20, $30 or $40+ an hour.

I very much support the ability to have any number of companies "bid" to work for my company. The unions took that ability away in the US and clear proof how that fails is the fact Obama motors needed our tax dollars to bail them out because the union has these companies by the balls. Apple cannot compete in a free market by paying high school drop outs $40+ an hour union wages with lifetime union benefits. The very basis of a free market allows Apple to outsource labor and the only ones to blame are the good ol boy's in the USA supporting unions.

White trash...high school drop out...Obama Motors...union workers BS...I think that says it all. American labor has no right to anything. Nevermind the fact that a lot of these contracts were negotiated by leadership interested in their own short term interests expecting to sell a toxic asset down the line as their giveaways went to maturity or by politicians who needed reelection. It was seldom that officers in companies or administration in government took a paycut or didn't participate in pension plans. So, the unions wanted a piece of the action too, and that's the only thing that bankrupted it, right? The greedy unions? Nevermind that people could've allotted money into the company instead of gutting it? Or that compensation packages in the 9 digit number packages generally are bad for companies?

I remember Citi had an issue with a banker that had earned half a billion dollars betting on the commodities market. I have a tough time understanding what a person could do to possibly earn $500M in one year, and how it could be more productive than 10000 other people combined. But that's the free market. Someone can screw the people and be rewarded. Those people screwed need to buy that oil, and guess what, they have to pay more because someone figured out how to screw them. And if the people complain that they're screwed, why, they're just a bunch of socialists. And if it turns out that that money was made due to something illegal, so what? That person can now bribe a politician to change the law! And what can the people do? Their opponent doesn't have access, and no one knows what exactly happened, so the rich get richer, and everyone else gets screwed. That's not exactly a conservative argument, unless you believe that the Republicans overwhelmingly voted for the bailouts. Which they didn't. But they like to pretend that the liberals did.

This kind of thing happens. That's why Samsung is building chips for Apple in the good ol' USA. They trust USA labor to have a lower risk premium on supply lines and not self destruct. Unlike China, where your productive capacity might shut down for a day, and you might now miss a delivery of 100,000 iPhones, which to Apple, might be worth tens of millions of dollars.

I believe in the free market, so I would say, Foxconn deserves it. Treat your workers better, and its like an insurance policy. Treat your workers like they're just white trash, and don't be surprised when they burn down the factory and steal the money you made at their expense.

 

[NSeven]

We all know who is behind this.... Samsung... Turds !!!

 

[cantthinkofone]

RIOT!!!

 

[usc2k]

To what? There is no evidence at all that "abused workers" is a cause of this. But you have that many people together and things are going to get crazy sometimes. People argue, they adulterate with each other, they steal from each other, they take offense because some other guy's ancestor insulted your ancestor. I take your point that there is a human side here and we hope no one was seriously injured, but you can't have that many people together and not have incidents happen from time to time. Hell, look at almost any town or city in the U.S. where there are even fewer people. Stuff happens.

All that aside, I just could not live with myself if I knew my phone came from abused workers. I would rather be without an iPhone.

----------

All that aside, I just could not live with myself if I knew my phone came from abused workers. I would rather be without an iPhone.

And perhaps I am too sensitive. I truly care about the well-being of the people who make my "toys".

 

[69650]

Foxconn employs more than 1.2 million people in China. Guess what happens when you have 1.2 million employees: Anything that happens sometimes will happen. Now let's go through this:

Suicides: About 40,000 per year in the USA. I think 27 were reported at Foxconn. If the USA reduced their rate to the same as Foxconn, they would save more than 30,000 lives every year.

Strikes: Have there been strikes? Possibly. I don't know how old you are, but you live in a place that knows everything there is to know about strikes.

Riots: Look, this may be annoying to you, but did you have any riots recently in your country?

Explosions: There was an explosion in one of the many Foxconn plants. The same week there was a very similar explosion at Intel in the USA.

"Foxconn guards beat an employee": Any evidence? Especially any evidence that such a thing happened before the riot started? Just because you read it on the internet doesn't mean it's true.

Yes we have strikes and riots in the UK. But at least we don't have modern day slaves working in our country. We also have freedom of speech and democracy - two things sadly denied to these people in China. What is you solution? What should we do? Just let things drift on as they are? What the hell they're only Chinese migrant workers - as long as you get your iPhone on time that's all that matters to you isn't it. I hope they burn the whole factory down.

As for your cheap jibe about the British and strikes you're about 20 years out of date. Maybe you should concern yourself with the problems in your own country. I presume you're American. How's your economy doing these days? Still got the largest national debt in the history of the planet? Maybe that's why you've got so many suicides.

 

[litedesign]

Maybe the overturned cars are actually just weird perspective glitches in Apple Maps.

 

[Kwill]

Chaos

That's what happens when you ramp up production, I guess.

 

[JohnMantooth]

I saw a sideways car and thought I was looking at an Apple Maps screenshot.

 

[xArtx]

Maybe Apple should use some of it's $100bn to PAY IT'S GODDAMN WORKERS.

This is a Foxconn factory yes?
Why Don't Apple start paying Macdonalds and Wallmart employees too....

 

[vladi]

Foxconn employs more than 1.2 million people in China. Guess what happens when you have 1.2 million employees: Anything that happens sometimes will happen. Now let's go through this:

Suicides: About 40,000 per year in the USA. I think 27 were reported at Foxconn. If the USA reduced their rate to the same as Foxconn, they would save more than 30,000 lives every year.

Strikes: Have there been strikes? Possibly. I don't know how old you are, but you live in a place that knows everything there is to know about strikes.

Riots: Look, this may be annoying to you, but did you have any riots recently in your country?

Explosions: There was an explosion in one of the many Foxconn plants. The same week there was a very similar explosion at Intel in the USA.

"Foxconn guards beat an employee": Any evidence? Especially any evidence that such a thing happened before the riot started? Just because you read it on the internet doesn't mean it's true.

Foxconn "employs" criminal convicts that work for free. You wanna know how they get their engineers?

People who ran Foxconn are very close to the government and thing they can do are above the law. Corruption at it's finest.

 

[kdarling]

Steve Jobs wanted to. He brought it up to Obama [according to the Jobs bio] more than once.

You have that backwards. Obama asked Jobs if the manufacturing could be done in the USA, and Jobs replied that “Those jobs aren’t coming back.”

OK. First we'll need to find 25,000 mechanical engineers to retool factories every time there is a new product. Then we'll need to build out infrastructure. Plus we'll need to add port capacity to handle the influx of shipments from suppliers.

Companies retool factories every year to build new cars, which are almost infinitely more complicated to manufacture than an Apple device. It doesn't take thousands of mechanical engineers to do that.

It isn't as simple as waving a wand. In particular the lack of engineers is something that Steve Jobs pointed out in a meeting with the president.

Jobs only said something about American workers not having the same flexibility. (Meaning not willing to sleep in dorms and get paid minimal wages.)

Tim Cook is the one who, at last May's All Things D conference, brought up certain factory skills in an attempt to deflect questions about Apple bringing their manufacturing back to the USA.

He commented something like, "All the remaining American tool-and-die makers could hardly fill the auditorium." Cleverly factual in a way, but ultimately meaningless.

Yes, the number of tool-and-die COMPANIES is down to about five thousand. That's still 100 per state. Plus each company employs up to a dozen skilled people, and with modern computer guided tools, they can outproduce many times that number of Chinese workers who are still doing things by hand.

As this blog points out:

"The answer is simple–Cook is talking balooney. It ain’t true.

This is not about skilled tool and die markers, this is about having 8000 workers who are willing to roll out of bed, take a cup of tea and a biscuit, and jump onto a 12 hour shift to adapt to a last minute design change Apple mandates.

It’s about dealing with a country whose factories and workers are subsidized to the hilt by the Chinese government and by the substandard conditions these workers toil under.

It’s about having the Chinese government invest capital so Apple doesn’t have to."

 

[einmusiker]

Get ready for $5000 iphones!

most selfish, ignorant, absurd comment ever.

Do you realize how much 79,000 jobs would help our economy and how much more VALUE that would give to our dollar??? You just don't get it

 

[leonstafford]

Not a shocker.

Frankly I am quite unnerved that they dont do this more oft. These workers should strike every once in a while and force their uppers to give better pay and better working conditions.

Who says it doesn't happen more often? Suppression of the real news has been happening forever in China, technology helps us get a glimpse of it these days.

My friend lives in Shenzhen, China and had riots right outside his building in the central business district last weekend. Nothing shows up on Google.

Subscribe to this newsletter if you want some stories which mainstream squashes:

http://www.zgbriefs.com/

 

[AppleScruff1]

You have that backwards. Obama asked Jobs if the manufacturing could be done in the USA, and Jobs replied that “Those jobs aren’t coming back.”



Companies retool factories every year to build new cars, which are almost infinitely more complicated to manufacture than an Apple device. It doesn't take thousands of mechanical engineers to do that.



Jobs only said something about American workers not having the same flexibility. (Meaning not willing to sleep in dorms and get paid minimal wages.)

Tim Cook is the one who, at last May's All Things D conference, brought up certain factory skills in an attempt to deflect questions about Apple bringing their manufacturing back to the USA.

He commented something like, "All the remaining American tool-and-die makers could hardly fill the auditorium." Cleverly factual in a way, but ultimately meaningless.

Yes, the number of tool-and-die COMPANIES is down to about five thousand. That's still 100 per state. Plus each company employs up to a dozen skilled people, and with modern computer guided tools, they can outproduce many times that number of Chinese workers who are still doing things by hand.

As this blog points out:

"The answer is simple–Cook is talking balooney. It ain’t true.

This is not about skilled tool and die markers, this is about having 8000 workers who are willing to roll out of bed, take a cup of tea and a biscuit, and jump onto a 12 hour shift to adapt to a last minute design change Apple mandates.

It’s about dealing with a country whose factories and workers are subsidized to the hilt by the Chinese government and by the substandard conditions these workers toil under.

It’s about having the Chinese government invest capital so Apple doesn’t have to."

Outstanding post. Kudos to you.

 

[lancelot]

Can't they just throw suicide nets over them and chain them back to their work areas?

What the **** are you saying! mother ****er!

 

[Konrad]

I'm from South Africa. I chose to live in the United States. I have seen more crime, violence and corruption than you will ever know. That being said, I have CHOSEN my country of residence accordingly. If you don't like your government or economic system, MOVE and stop being such a weiner.

And what do you mean, " By the same token " ? You're just spouting random phrases haphazardly.

Wieners run, men change the government. Now you live in a police state. Great choice. Accordingly.

 

[carlgo]

Steve Jobs wanted to. He brought it up to Obama [according to the Jobs bio] more than once. Jobs told Obama that the U.S. needs more skilled manufacturing engineers, the kind that can be taught in trade schools. But it's a bit simplified. That would enable us to assemble parts and products here in the U.S., but to make an entire iPhone here would require rebuilding the entire component supply chain. And that would take years.

I'm not sure if Tim Cook really cares. But I think Steve was pretty patriotic in his way, and was certainly very loyal to the Silicon Valley.

Obama asked if production could come back to the US.

Jobs said "that ship has sailed", citing lack of "engineers".

"But, he continued, how about a tax holiday?".

Obama did not look amused, hoping for more than a scheme to dodge taxes.

Jobs at one time was proud of Apple's US production, but soon gave in what may have been Cook's touting of China and how regulations, taxes and pesky employees could be avoided.