Rivian CEO Explains Why Apple CarPlay Won't Come to Its Vehicles

[G5isAlive]

That's one way to look at it. My way to look at it: Apple Music is not free either. In fact costs more than SiriusXM. As for navigation, Volvo doesn't charge for it, nor do they charge for updates.

Except in my car, Apple Music IS free, or at least I am not paying for it to sit in my car. I already have Apple Music, car or not. I carry Apple Music (on my iPhone, which you have if you are using CarPlay) around with me all day. So what is the additional cost? Nada.

 

[Smith288]

I never understood the fad of chosing trucks. Maybe it is because I rarely have a need for a truck to waste the $80k on one.

Then dont get one? I have a Jeep Wrangler. Never took it offroading once. It's what I want.

 

[I7guy]

Which is why they need to go back to physical buttons (not to mention how much safer having physical buttons versus all touch screen are). @arthography not sure why you would be mad about making cars more safe, but I guess you prefer distracted driving with touchscreens...

Confusing physical buttons is worse than voice commands or a well designed screen.

 

[G5isAlive]

And you’re missing the value of Tesla and Rivian’s software. Not only is it far superior to CarPlay and Android Auto, but you take everything to any other car you drive.

Henry Ford, "you can have any color you want as long as that color is black."

You can have Tesla software in any other as long as that car is a Tesla. No thanks. There are a lot of cars and rentals out there that are NOT Tesla.

 

[I7guy]

Question: how do you access all of your media and personal information that is on your phone in your Tesla?

Bluetooth.

For example, I have a few hundred gigabytes of music, books on tape, etc. on my phone. Can I not listen to any of that if I were to buy a Tesla?

Bluetooth.

What if I want to call someone or send someone an iMessage?

If the car is moving how can you do this today?

Can I not do that if I were to buy a Tesla?

Yes, it can be done.

What if I lend my car to a friend or family member? Will they have access to all my contacts, messages?

No.

Will they have access to their own media and personal information from their own phone?

Yes.

Just wondering how all of this works without CarPlay.

CarPlay is good. But the Tesla screen is awesome.

 

[zarmanto]

Confusing physical buttons is worse than voice commands or a well designed screen.

I disagree where screens are concerned, because most any driver can quickly learn to manipulate the console buttons without ever having to take their eyes off of the road.

You may have a point where voice commands are concerned -- but I can't say for certain, as I've never personally used a car which fully replaced button-based controls with voice commands.

 

[rgwebb]

Car companies just don't want to accept that most of us want: "just a car"

We don't need "an experience" or "their ecosystem" or "a new vision"

Just...Make... the frickin' car ... which works with what we already have and use (our Phones)

Go buy a Hyundai. I don't want Apple dicking around with my Audi.

 

[cocky jeremy]

Another poster rightfully said "Rivian is, as a startup, already at a disadvantage - so why are they limiting their potential customer base by restricting choice?"

That was me too. lol.

 

[cocky jeremy]

Go buy a Hyundai. I don't want Apple dicking around with my Audi.

Apple doesn't force anything on Audi. You can still use all of the built in stuff.

 

[G5isAlive]

Scaringe's argument is sound. I drive a Tesla and even though I'm a big Apple fan, I don't mind not having Apple Car Play. The key is offering software good enough not to miss it. Tesla has done it, maybe Rivian can too. From what I understand, GM isn't even close.

I don't own a Tesla, but have rented one several times on business trips to find out what the big deal was (with a future purchase in mind). I am NOT claiming to be a Tesla expert, far from it, but I am claiming to have experienced what it was like to try to learn the Tesla interface.

It sucked. I don't know about you, but when I jump into a rental I dont want to read a manual first. At most I make sure I know how to turn on the lights and wash the windshields. But with Tesla, it took considerably more just to get out of the parking garage. And I could not figure out how to access the entertainment system and once I was told how by my friend who owns one (couldn't figure out how to make a call with Tesla so I used my iPhone natively), I found it to be clunky and hard to use (small buttons on a big screen). I never figured out voice control. Took me several rentals to where I would say I was comfortablish, but that cooled my desire to buy one.

So maybe if I owned one I would learn to accept it. Doubt I would ever like it better than CarPlay, but regardless. The moment someone asked how to use it I would be stuck explaining to them how to turn on the radio.

As folks have been saying, consistency from car to car, and from in the car and out of the car is what CarPlay offers, and I won't buy a car that doesn't support it for that reason.

 

[Stromos]

If the car is moving how can you do this today?

Click phone click favorite contact on my car display.

I want to see maps and current playing music one click.

I'm sitting at a redlight and want to swap playlists? Click the new playlist.

I want to stream music from my Plex Server at home I click Plexamp and play music from home.

I want to play music from any streaming service regardless if Elon likes it or not? Click.

And it's all done without a subscription.

A Telsa driver sitting at a red light wanting to change their playlist on any app they are forced to use Bluetooth is eventually going to get a ticket.

When Tesla uses the money they milk out of you to support all apps you might want to use then you can talk about it being superior. That sounds unreasonable? Well you know they wouldn't have to spend any time getting Amazon Music or Plex or anything else working if they just supported CarPlay which has all the work already done.

Enjoy your subscription and make sure you only use apps that Telsa supports. Or use Bluetooth for a lesser experience. Telsa isn't a car company it's a software subscription company that moves as the pace of an out of touch company. They still don't support the top four music streaming services and if you think that isn't a priority (probably shouldn't be) then maybe they should step aside and just allow CarPlay that supports everything big or small today.

If you're using Bluetooth and can't fully control the app or switch it, you have a lesser experience than CarPlay. Plain and simple. If you don't use Bluetooth great you use what Tesla allows you to use. Fine. But don't sit there and act like its somehow superior.

I will not let my car dictate what services I use and make me pay for it to boot.

You can say Bluetooth a thousand times. I get it Bluetooth is an option. Now compare Bluetooth to CarPlay and tell me Bluetooth is better. Can I switch from Amazon Music to Plex over Bluetooth? If Bluetooth gives me full control to interact with ANY music app I have on my phone through the car controls without voice commands, I'll concede.

 

[Premium1]

Confusing physical buttons is worse than voice commands or a well designed screen.

Physical buttons will always be better than any screen. It is glass, no matter how they design it you still have to take your eyes off of the road. We need less distracted drivers, not more because of your infatuation with touchscreens in cars.

 

[jimbobb24]

This childish bickering is why we need government to set standards. Imagine if someone patented how the brake pedal and steering wheel worked, and every car company had do do them differently.

This bickering is why it's so wonderful the market gives us options. Imagine if the government mandated the interface for cars and innovators couldn't development Car Play, Android Play (?), or whatever other interface they wanted.

 

[jimbobb24]

I wonder when Kia or Hyundai might make a small EV truck
They are both making unbelievably great products right now

Ford Maverick Hybrid is small and selling like crazy.

 

[jimbobb24]

The key part it is about money. They can charge $15/month for streaming in the car where car play is free.

None of these cars to my knowledge restrict blue tooth streaming. My Tesla has a service and it has Apple Music built in but it doesn't care at all if I also stream from my phone. The system lets you do it however you want.

 

[richpjr]

I bought it, I will use it in the manner in which I want to use it. I do not want to pay the auto manufacturer a monthly fee to access capabilities and functionality that I paid for with the original tens of thousands of dollars price tag.

You paid for what the manufacturer included in the sales price, not everything it is capable of - big difference.

 

[SpotOnT]

If the car is moving how can you do this today?

By using CarPlay on the touchscreen. Using the touchscreen to make a call/text is the only legal option here.

 

[zenodux]

Does it bother some people that much that manufacturers collect telemetry data to make their cars more reliable, and to notify them when servicing and maintenance is required?

Yes. I'm happy I don't need to buy a car right now, because I don't like any of the choices privacy-wise. From a large array of sensors, today's average car can directly measure or infer many things about people inside and around the vehicle. All that data is sent to the car manufacturer. Car companies sell this data for profit. Most people don't know this is happening. Even for those who do, there often is no way to opt out - and definitely none right now if you're not the vehicle owner. Governments should step in and regulate this unprecedented privacy nightmare, but of course, there is little incentive for them to do so unless the public puts pressure on them.

https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/articles/its-official-cars-are-the-worst-product-category-we-have-ever-reviewed-for-privacy/

*Privacy Not Included: A Buyer’s Guide for Connected Products

Modern cars are surveillance-machines on wheels that can detect everything we do and where and when we do it. What could happen if something goes wrong?

foundation.mozilla.org

*Privacy Not Included: A Buyer’s Guide for Connected Products

Your car can collect data about what you do, where you go, what you say, and even how you move your body. Find out what car companies do with that information.

foundation.mozilla.org

How to Figure Out What Your Car Knows About You (and Opt Out of Sharing When You Can)

Cars collect a lot of our personal data, and car companies disclose a lot of that data to third parties. It’s often unclear what’s being collected, and what's being shared and with whom. A recent New York Times article highlighted how data is shared by G.M. with insurance companies, sometimes...

www.eff.org

https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sensitive-images-recorded-by-customer-cars-2023-04-06/

Also, I'd love to see more cars feature Apple Car Key support, an open standard also known as CCC Digital Key (and Google calls it a digital car key), that both Apple, Google, and several manufacturers support - https://carconnectivity.org/our-members/member-list/

 

[SpotOnT]

By setting up your phone via blue tooth connection like any other car.

I see.

Yeah, I only get a new car every 20-25 years, so I went straight from a car with no Bluetooth or auxiliary inputs, to a car with CarPlay. Never had to use Bluetooth before.

 

[richpjr]

Physical buttons will always be better than any screen. It is glass, no matter how they design it you still have to take your eyes off of the road. We need less distracted drivers, not more because of your infatuation with touchscreens in cars.

When all cars drive themselves in the not-so-distant future, this won't be an issue.

 

[darngooddesign]

...

 

[WhiteShadow]

Scaringe's argument is sound. I drive a Tesla and even though I'm a big Apple fan, I don't mind not having Apple Car Play. The key is offering software good enough not to miss it. Tesla has done it, maybe Rivian can too. From what I understand, GM isn't even close.

Tesla has not done it, the Maps/Navigation is terrible. The new UI in FSD is ridiculous. No App Store, so we have to rely on their one first party versions/implementations of apps. Text messaging is useless for groups, etc.

 

[richpjr]

I'll help here if you have to touch your mobile device to change a playlist/app then it's a non-starter for a moving vehicle.

Use your phone as a hot spot for the built in apps and never have to touch it.

 

[skottichan]

He's not on point to compare it to Apple's ecosystem. Apple allows third-party apps to run on its ecosystem. CarPlay is an app for a Rivian ecosystem. Just as in Apple's ecosystem, Rivian customers should have the option of using CarPlay or not. If Scaringe manages to produce better navigation, music, etc. then his customers won't even tap on that CarPlay app.

To be fair, the original release of iOS didn't allow third party apps, the only apps you could "install" were essentially weblinks. And Steve had to be pressured to allow it. So, pretty apt comparison.

 

[gsurf123]

It's quite ironic to see people saying "no car play, no buy" on an Apple forum. Apple, famous for restricting users to use their stuff within a walled garden. No headphone jack, no buy; no swappable battery, no buy; no upgradeable ram, no buy; no free to install whatever app I want, no buy; etc. If you're not a fan of a company designing the ideal user experience and restricting you to using it their way, why in the world are you using an Apple product?

I wish I had an interest in buying an electric truck (and a driveway) to give this guy my money. I wish more companies (including Apple) gave half the attention he's giving to the user experience and were more restrictive with it. This mindset, that's been missing from products for a long time, is what attracted me to the Apple experience in the late 90s. Looking at iOS, as Apple has simply adopted existing Android gimmicks, it's lost the magic that's made it so brilliant and joyful to use.

Scaringe may very well screw up the UX but it seems like he's coming from the right place and I'm hopefully they succeed. Motor vehicles should be self contained systems that don't require software updates. The phone should be an additional dynamic accessory that seamlessly ingrates for some things (ICE) but not to operate the vehicle. The manufacturer is the expert in how the vehicle should be interacted with - not some third party software developer.

There is no irony. Apple's product do what I need and want them to do so I keep buying their products, and yes I want the walled garden. If they did not cover my needs I would buy another company's products. As for the Rivian and others without CarPlay I will not be buying them as it is a critical feature for me. It's Rivian's choice and I am good with that. The one thing you will never see me do is buy something and then lobby (or litigate) for a feature it does not have. People who do this are lunatics.