rMBPs too expensive for market?

[thundersteele]

I have been thinking about the decline in Mac sales. I understand that Apple blames most of it on supply issues and one week less of sales, and that's fair enough.

However there is another way to look at things. Apple introduced two new Mac products this year, the 13'' and 15'' rMBPs. If we discard the 17'' MBP that never contributed any significant sales, the number of available models increased from 4 to 6, i.e. 50%. Despite this increased model range, MacBook sales (air, classic, retina) did als decline compared to the year ago quarter.

I wonder if the rMBPs are just too expensive to generate strong sales right now. Remember that the 17'' MBP previously was the only machine with a starting price north of $2000, and was discontinued due to weak demand. Similarly $1700 for a 13'' machine without graphics card is a lot to swallow. If I remember correctly, the Air had similar issue with a very high starting price, while it is now a success.

Apple should be able to reduce the price for the next generation of rMBPs. Flash storage prices continue to drop, and also the yields on the retina screens and unibodys should improve over time. $2000 flat should be possible as starting price for the next generation 15'' rMBP. For the 13'' I'm less certain how much can be done... in my opinion it should go down to $1400, but that's quite a bit.

It will also be interesting to see whether the cMBPs will stay around (maybe only the 13'' as "low cost" option). I also wonder if we will see anything new before June/July, which is when the new Intel CPUs are said to arrive.

 

[AppleBoyFreak]

Your explanation is logical, but I also blame the fact that tablets and iPads are becoming more portable and more powerful so that they can do many of the tasks that was once done on a laptop. For example, when i got an ipad i never used a computer again, but i got a mac just to finish my apple collection.

 

[Ultra AleM]

I agree. The prices are ridiculous. Can you imagine that the MBP base model costs as a Notebook with quad core i7, 8GB of RAM and dedicated memory?

 

[Orlandoech]

Thats a great POV, I agree.

I think once the cMBP series is discontinued the rMBP will lower in price and may see increased sales.

 

[ScholarsInk]

The best deal on the rMBP is for students, who get 200 off of the price, and they generally buy in the summer (and usually buy 13" unibody models, but still).

 

[bushido]

The best deal on the rMBP is for students, who get 200 off of the price, and they generally buy in the summer (and usually buy 13" unibody models, but still).

yep got my rmbp on a "apple on campus" discount for 1.499€ instead of 1.749€

 

[IGregory]

I wonder if the rMBPs are just too expensive to generate strong sales right now.

I have another thought, it is well known that the biggest factor pushing down PC sales are tablet computers - here and here. There is not much chance you will see a Mac price reduction.

 

[Spink10]

I would be surprised by a price cut in the retina's this year. Prices on SSD have not dropped that much over the last 6-9 months.

 

[derbothaus]

Maybe SOME people are waiting for upgradable retina models. Or better options or rev2 less problematic more supported models. Using their brains and buying when they like what Apple is peddling. I know a lot of users who are not buying because they don't want to add to Apples closed non repairable ecosystem numbers. I would be proud their numbers slip based on user rage. They should. This should be the case for everything o' capitalistic world.
cue the apologists...

 

[NewishMacGuy]

I have another thought, it is well known that the biggest factor pushing down PC sales are tablet computers - here and here. There is not much chance you will see a Mac price reduction.

Maybe on on an absolute basis (given all the money printing), but on a real inflation-adjusted basis, I would expect the rMBP prices to drop quite a bit. And I would guess that it'll start happening next year. See MBA for your example.



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[NewishMacGuy]

Maybe SOME people are waiting for upgradable retina models. Or better options or rev2 less problematic more supported models. Using their brains and buying when they like what Apple is peddling. I know a lot of users who are not buying because they don't want to add to Apples closed non repairable ecosystem numbers. I would be proud their numbers slip based on user rage. They should. This should be the case for everything o' capitalistic world.
cue the apologists...

It is the case for everything in a truly free market capitalist world. If you don't like what Apple's selling, you don't have to buy it. The lack of alternative choices and the consumer abuse that the lack of choices invites only really stem from government granted monopolies (including those created by artificially turning ideas into property - patent law).


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[alphaod]

The best deal on the rMBP is for students, who get 200 off of the price, and they generally buy in the summer (and usually buy 13" unibody models, but still).

I bought mine while on vacation in Alaska. Found they have no sales tax and the store guy was nice enough to give me a student discount even though I'm not a student.

 

[nickftw8686]

a rmbp is a luxury laptop. It came out as the future of the macbook line and had a price to match. I think the price all be it high is not outrageous, the problem is in today's economy few can justify it vs a regular pro when they can get a great laptop that will most likely fit their needs for less. Heck most people have trouble justifying a normal macbook vs a windows laptop for less.

Do most people need a laptop with retina display? Nope, do people want it, yes. So it comes down to want vs need. I did not really need a display this great but I sure as hell wanted it lol. Granted I would not of bought mine if I did not find such a great deal on one.

 

[TickleMeElmo]

Maybe SOME people are waiting for upgradable retina models. Or better options or rev2 less problematic more supported models. Using their brains and buying when they like what Apple is peddling. I know a lot of users who are not buying because they don't want to add to Apples closed non repairable ecosystem numbers. I would be proud their numbers slip based on user rage. They should. This should be the case for everything o' capitalistic world.
cue the apologists...

Some people are also still waiting for a dedicated FPU and the return of user replaceable notebook CPUs. The people who want such things more often than not are not of an engineering background or have a vested interest in keeping user upgradeability alive even if it's at the cost of user experience.

I think the cMBP is not long for this world. The fact that they didn't make the engineering effort to move to Magsafe 2 on those notebooks even when they have been very fastidious about replacing old connectors.

As Hawsell moves around I think that the MBA will take the place of the cMBP's.

 

[Geoffre]

Maybe on on an absolute basis (given all the money printing), but on a real inflation-adjusted basis, I would expect the rMBP prices to drop quite a bit. And I would guess that it'll start happening next year. See MBA for your example.



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Inflation? Isn't that running at a bit less than 2% right now? Not sure how that's leading to dramatically different MBP prices... Unless of course, you're one of those folks who thinks quantitative easing automatically equals inflation! LOL.

 

[Spink10]

I think the cMBP is not long for this world. The fact that they didn't make the engineering effort to move to Magsafe 2 on those notebooks even when they have been very fastidious about replacing old connectors.

Never thought about that point. I am still a believer that cMBP will exist in 2013. It was simpler just to keep the exact same frame. But you may have a valid point - time will tell.

 

[definitive]

i think it is expensive. the whole "there's no other computer like it" argument is bs, especially when you look at the windows competition. you can get a windows computer with same exact hardware, minus the screen and maybe a bit thicker for a thousand less.

macs are successful in part due to hype.

 

[Spink10]

i think it is expensive. the whole "there's no other computer like it" argument is bs, especially when you look at the windows competition. you can get a windows computer with same exact hardware, minus the screen and maybe a bit thicker for a thousand less.

macs are successful in part due to hype.

There is no computer like it - you even admitted it.

 

[derbothaus]

Some people are also still waiting for a dedicated FPU and the return of user replaceable notebook CPUs. The people who want such things more often than not are not of an engineering background or have a vested interest in keeping user upgradeability alive even if it's at the cost of user experience.

I think the cMBP is not long for this world. The fact that they didn't make the engineering effort to move to Magsafe 2 on those notebooks even when they have been very fastidious about replacing old connectors.

As Hawsell moves around I think that the MBA will take the place of the cMBP's.

Cost of user experience? Surely managing dongles for basic functionality is not the height of user functionality. Shrinking and miniaturizing things should not always be the engineering boner Apple's spoon fed fans think it is. So far I hear nothing but PR regurgitation.
Thank goodness magsafe2 didn't make it as well considering the e-waste I alone would contribute with my 5+ chargers. Not to mention the other actual professionals who have multiples of these things.
Yes, eventually you have to move on and I feel Apple is doing a great job offering both. It isn't fracturing their focus but giving users what they actually need, a little choice. If I could get the retina screen with ethernet and FW800 and a standard 2.5" SATA bay (which can fit) I'd be all over it. Love every bit of the screen. Not a fan of the implications.

 

[psykick5]

It'll drop with the next cycle. If you remember the MBA was $1800 when it came out. Look at it now.

 

[mrsir2009]

It'll drop with the next cycle. If you remember the MBA was $1800 when it came out. Look at it now.

It will have to drop if Apple is going to discontinue the cMBP's, which they probably will in the not-too-distant-future.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Consider this: a 4K 20" panel will cost thousands of dollars, possibly $10k-$20k based on some estimates. The Retina Display alone, being a middle ground between 1080p and 4K, makes the price seem like a value in comparison.

 

[nickftw8686]

Consider this: a 4K 20" panel will cost thousands of dollars, possibly $10k-$20k based on some estimates. The Retina Display alone, being a middle ground between 1080p and 4K, makes the price seem like a value in comparison.

10-20k for a 4k 20 inch panel??? I dunno about that.

 

[KPOM]

However there is another way to look at things. Apple introduced two new Mac products this year, the 13'' and 15'' rMBPs. If we discard the 17'' MBP that never contributed any significant sales, the number of available models increased from 4 to 6, i.e. 50%. Despite this increased model range, MacBook sales (air, classic, retina) did als decline compared to the year ago quarter.

I wonder if the rMBPs are just too expensive to generate strong sales right now. Remember that the 17'' MBP previously was the only machine with a starting price north of $2000, and was discontinued due to weak demand. Similarly $1700 for a 13'' machine without graphics card is a lot to swallow. If I remember correctly, the Air had similar issue with a very high starting price, while it is now a success.

As a 13" rMBP owner (and a previous owner of MacBook Airs all the way back to the 1,1 model in February 2008), I wonder whether Apple intended the rMBP to be a volume seller in 2012/early 2013. It is a nice computer, to be sure, and a step up from my 2012 MacBook Air but it certainly isn't for everyone. It seems more like a proof of concept while Apple sort out the yield and manufacturing issues.

That said, I do expect that the rMBP will become a mainstream model within a year. Yields seem to be improving, and even ASUS is floating the idea of a 2880x1620 (16:9) screen in a 15" notebook, so evidently availability will improve as well. I think we'll fairly quickly reach a point where we all can't imagine a world without HiDPI displays (much as how "Retina" displays are mainstream even on cheap Android phones just 3 years after the iPhone 4 was released).

 

[IllmasterMath]

Consider this: a 4K 20" panel will cost thousands of dollars, possibly $10k-$20k based on some estimates. The Retina Display alone, being a middle ground between 1080p and 4K, makes the price seem like a value in comparison.

Consider this: Sony's brand new flagship 85" 4K TV costs $25,000 at retail. So you're full of it.

Also, Sharp makes a 32" IGZO 4K panel that Wikipedia says costs $5,500. I don't know if that's retail or what.