Roku CEO Calls Apple TV a 'Money Loser', Says Product is 'Essentially' an Accessory for iPad

[mabhatter]

I'm going to make myself really unpopular here and say that if you're not using the apple tv for airplay then there are probably plenty of cheaper, more functional alternatives.

(bear in mind in the UK they cost around $165, not $99, therefore the case is better for the apple tv in US)

But the "killer app"so far is linking to all your iTunes purchases. Roku is only interesting if you got a lot of your stuff from somewhere else... I won't call Roku pirates, but most of their customers were at the start. AppleTV had LEGAL CONTENT 5 years ago. Roku is entirely Dependant on Amazon or subscription services... They won't even pay for a YouTube License from Google which is the only other thing I use my AppleTV for.

They cheaper out on paying for ANY content, and that's what keeps people USING your device.. And Apple's 30% cut of media sales makes AppleTV VERY profitable just as an accessory.

 

[Supermacguy]

Apple has already stated it's goal is to make great products and not every single department has to make money, so long as the overall product makes money. And I think they ahve extended that logic to ATV. It helps create value for having an iPad or iPod and integrates with your computer. It's a necessary device to be the "glue" for your "digital hub".

 

[kerryb]

winner takes it all?

The mouse that roared may better describe Roku's so called war against Apple TV. There is plenty of room in the market for these two products along with the usual cheap brands.

 

[everything-i]

im thinking its perhaps the exact opposite. ive yet to see the interview that these quotes come from but was watching older ones on youtube and hes always asked when roku will be crushed by the big boys. yet roku seems to be doing very well.

would think its in many ways built up frustration.

Problem is as this market place becomes more crowded, Roku are being squeezed more and more. I suspect the comments about Apple making a loss are frustration that Roku is unable to match the economies of scale that Apple has allowing them to get components and manufacturing at way below the prices Roku can.

 

[-LD]

I have 3 Apple TV's and 0 Roku boxes. I also have an ever growing library of TV shows and Movies in my iTunes. All that matched with Airplay from my MacBooks and iOS devices makes the Apple TV invaluable.

This is key. There is almost no reason to stay with Roku. If I have Netflix, Hulu, etc I can switch to any number of other boxes including Apple TV. However, if I have or want iTunes content I have to keep Apple TV. Amazon is planning a similar strategy.

Roku should be scared because they are quickly becoming irrelevant as they only make a commodity that's easy to replicate and has no stickiness.

 

[everything-i]

This. The reason Apple can make a profit on the AppleTV is that they use their own home brewed A5, which they get at cost. Due to economies of scale, Apple also gets far better deals on flash memory and other components. It kills Roku's margins that they can't do the same.

Exactly, the deals that Apple can get because of economies of scale allow them to undercut small player like Roku by a significant amount and still make decent profits. Roku know they have no hope of matching this and as more big players come into this space they are getting squeezed more and more.

 

[newyorksole]

Lmao sooo how is Apple losing money ?

 

[Rogifan]

Yup, for non-action / driving games like the above-mentioned guess games, the lag (according to my own, controlled measurements, 130-150ms) isn't annoying.

The same lag, however, makes playing fast-paced action games unplayable. Heck, even the about 80ms lag introduced by the new wired Lightning adapters make pinball games unplayable.

I'm not a gamer so I've never tried to play anything like that via AirPlay. But to the Roku CEO, yeah I sometimes do use ATV ad an iPad accessory. So what? It provides value to me and is something the Roku box could never, hence why I own an ATV and not a Roku.

 

[Lancer]

I only recently got an Apple TV and yes it has it's limitations but once you have a movie loaded into iTunes (or go online to buy/rent) then it's very helpful to get them out of you Mac and on a big screen TV.

I hope any future models have more features and if Apple decides to sell TVs they we still get a stand alone device like the current Apple TV to use on other non Apple TV sets.

 

[Tiger8]

Lmao sooo how is Apple losing money ?

Read the article, he is talking about Apple TV in particular, which actually could be true.

How come Apple never releases the numbers around ATV sales? They release everything else (iPhone, iPad, Macs... even iPod) but not ATV? Steve Jobs himself said it's a 'hobby', and if I want to use the IRS definition of hobby vs business, the #1 difference is profitability.

And for the record, Roku is the one to beat, if Apple wants to get serious about that 6 year hobby.

 

[Menneisyys2]

They cheaper out on paying for ANY content, and that's what keeps people USING your device..

Well, actually, iTunes content is not necessarily cheaper than purchasing the same stuff on Blu-ray (or, if not available, DVD) discs and doing the ripping yourself.

For example, I've purchased the entire original Star Trek series (all three 2*7 + 6-disc boxes) from Amazon for $70 on high-quality BD's. From Apple, it would have cost me three times more money and the video quality would have been inferior, the original (non-CGI-enhanced) episodes totally missing, Spanish / French etc. audio missing etc.

 

[xero9]

I too am going to make myself unpopular here..

I have an Apple TV 2 and while it worked okay, running Plex on it was just too unstable. Ended up purchasing a Roku and it has been flawless since. I received an Apple TV 3 as a gift from my company which I ended up selling. I've since moved my original Roku to the bedroom and have a Roku 3 on my main TV. My Apple TV 2 has been sitting there unplugged for quite some time.

I know this site is very pro Apple, and I love most Apple products, but the ATV is not one of them. AirPlay is the only thing the Roku lacks that I miss. The remote is garbage IMO and I love the Wifi Direct remote of my Roku 3.

 

[numlock]

If Roku was actually doing "very well", those comments would never have been uttered.

so you are saying that roku isnt doing very well?

he has been asked about apple and google in the past years (which must be frustrating when you yourself are doing well) and similar type of answers.

 

[Menneisyys2]

I'm not a gamer so I've never tried to play anything like that via AirPlay.

Yup, just wanted to point out that AirPlay, like any wireless screen mirroring / streaming tech (incl. the, according to my own benchmarks, even more inferior Dreamcast), has inherent lag, which makes playing some kinds of games impossible or at least highly frustrating.

 

[Chatter]

Sneaky suspicion that he is scared of the current rumors surrounding a product called Apple TV. Fake bravado.

 

[Elbon]

Apple TV is largely a one-trick pony: AirPlay

I use AirPlay occasionally, but (to me) it is one of the least compelling aspects of the Apple TV. My family uses it to watch Netflix, play local iTunes content, and rent movies/watch TV shows far more often than we use it for AirPlay.

 

[attila]

Why did Sony sell their PS3 at a loss?

 

[Rafterman]

CEO's need to stop commenting on other company's products.

 

[MrDerby01]

Apple products quesiton

May I ask what country your from ? I have been trying to better understand what features are available with user's using "Android"\Google products VS Apple products. When you use your Apple TV what do you see ? Programming and applications ?

I am trying to decide because my family and I do travel a lot to different countries and I don't want to invest on one system and have to pay all over again to another. Mainly Japan, Philippines, Hong Kong, Canada.


Thank you in advance!!

Joe

Insecure much?
I have no idea about his product - I believe it's not available in my country.
Yet I use my Apple TVs every single day, and purchase a bunch of content through them. That's why they make them, Roku CEO.

Also I don't have an iPad. So not sure how his comment makes any sense.

 

[Thunderhawks]

I would never buy any streaming device. When I pay for something, I want something tangible in return which is not heavily reliant on the Internet and my download quota. I prefer a physical copy instead of DRM and region restrictions, which I refuse to accept and will not support. I control and decide where to play, no one else. I pay I play my way. Plus I prefer Blu-Ray, but not downloading 40GB per movie. Hell even the iTunes movies are not BD quality either, so why would I use their service?

I can buy a BD movie, make my own backup copy with no region restrictions, no DRM, play where and when I want, no downloads required, and have the original disc for a backup and BD quality as well. So why would I use the Internet route when Im paying more for less and I have to obtain it myself?

You know they invented the wheel and we have fire now.

Agreed, no need to use any of it, it's whatever one likes or feels comfortable with.

 

[HowieIsaacks]

Why can't this CEO talk about how supposedly great his own product is instead of bashing the Apple TV? Apple pokes fun at other companies, and often points out the actual shortcomings of competing products, but they don't engage in constant mud slinging like this. I guess it's true that when someone feels threatened, they will always pick on who they believe is the strongest player in the market. If Roku is outselling the Apple TV, then this guy should be happy about that. I have the 2nd generation Apple TV that I bought in December 2010. It's awesome. So what if it's an accessory for the iPad? How does that matter? Does this guy realize that we can use an Apple TV without an iPad, iPhone, Mac, or even a PC just running iTunes? I guess not. I don't respect salespeople who don't seem to know anything about the competing products that they're criticizing. Roku's CEO needs to shut up and learn about the other products before he starts yammering.

 

[Count Blah]

Roku is currently a better platform IMO, but their CEO is clearly anticipating ATV gaming, which will blow Roku out of the water.

Now if someone would just clue apple in on this. Single core A5?!?!?! It's like apple doesn't want to put a tiny bit of effort to make a killer device.

So damn annoying.

 

[bretm]

Wait, he's saying the AppleTV loses money. But it costs more than a Roku, and by his description, does less. So, I would assume the Roku loses money too. Or is he admitting the Roku, costing almost the same, is filled with cheap parts? At least the AppleTV drives iTunes sales and iRadio subscriptions. Also photo stream too.

If you're an Apple user, it's an extension of the Apple ecosystem. Plus, you can Airplay your FaceTime calls to it along with mirroring games, and movies, etc. Obviously the interface is better. The Roku interface is still kinda sad. But not horrible. I have a Roku myself.

 

[blizaine]

this reminds me of the Palm CEO saying that Apple can't make in the Cell phone market.

 

[bretm]

I too am going to make myself unpopular here..

I have an Apple TV 2 and while it worked okay, running Plex on it was just too unstable. Ended up purchasing a Roku and it has been flawless since. I received an Apple TV 3 as a gift from my company which I ended up selling. I've since moved my original Roku to the bedroom and have a Roku 3 on my main TV. My Apple TV 2 has been sitting there unplugged for quite some time.

I know this site is very pro Apple, and I love most Apple products, but the ATV is not one of them. AirPlay is the only thing the Roku lacks that I miss. The remote is garbage IMO and I love the Wifi Direct remote of my Roku 3.

I have an AppleTV 2, and a Roku 2. I'm not as smart about the Roku. It sits by the TV getting hot. It always is on. How do I turn the thing off? The AppleTV turns itself off after a period of inactivity. Or you can simply hold down the play button (if I remember right) and it'll turn off. Is there a secret way to turn off the Roku?