Had the Roku not been around, the Apple TV would most likely still be limited to just iTunes streaming and downloads.
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Roku CEO Calls Apple TV a 'Money Loser', Says Product is 'Essentially' an Accessory for iPad
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It's not Apple's style, but there's a apart of me that would like to see Apple take the loss-leader position and start giving Apple TV's out with new iPhone/iPad/Mac purchases just to get the market saturated with Apple TV's and get stupid people like this to shut up as they see their market share shrink. I know a lot more people with an iOS/OSX device than I do with Roku. Imagine if most of those people also had an Apple TV to compliment their device. I see it possible that Apple could make back the money (easily) from content revenues alone, especially if/when there is an AppleTV App store.
aTV might lose money on every device sold. I'm not sure. I'm surethough they make it up in spades from the content that people buy from itunes that they use on it.
Your not going to make much money selling $100 set top boxs. You make your money selling billions of dollars worth of content.
Your not going to make much money selling $100 set top boxs. You make your money selling billions of dollars worth of content.
Re:
I thought Apple has made close to $1 Billion in Apple TV? Correct me if I'm wrong... but how's that' a Money Looser??
Too much envy Anthony Wood?
I thought Apple has made close to $1 Billion in Apple TV? Correct me if I'm wrong... but how's that' a Money Looser??
Too much envy Anthony Wood?
Not surprising really -- Apple doesn't allow anyone else to integrate into their ecosystem.
When I see a movie for sale in the Apple ecosystem, I'm thinking the opposite of you: I'm going to need an Apple device to watch that, because if I buy that movie I'm going to have to give it up if later I see a device that does everyone I want except tie into the Apple ecosystem.
Apple is not unique here, of course, Google Play also doesn't play ball with Roku last time I checked. Amazon doesn't have an android instant watching app except for their hardware.
Unfortunately unless a fundamental shift happens (which I don't see happening), we'll never see the perfect device for the consumer: one that would allow you to stream movies from major services (iTunes, Google Play, Amazon Instant Video, Vudu, Hulu, etc.) and allow local streaming (Plex, XBMC clients, etc.) or all major formats.
But it irks me as a consumer that I might want to buy 3 movies in a HD digital format, one of which is cheapest on Google, another is on sale at Apple, and the other is cheapest at Amazon, and I'm looking at some combination of 2-3 devices to watch those movies. And with no hope of having one integrated solution that allows me to build a personal library of streamable movies I've purchased rather than throwing all my chips into one ecosystem (and I agree, if you are willing to do that, it can be sweet, and Apple is probably best at it, but there are some very real tradeoffs by only playing in one sandbox.)
Exactly...absolutely exactly. I swear people in here are so damn arrogant that they cannot see that competing products work great with os x and ios.
Roku beats ATV hands down. It's ability to work with 3rd party plugins, such as plex, leaves ATV in its rear view mirror. Let ATV use 3rd party plugins and maybe I will look at it again.
The easiest is purchasing all movies on DVD / BD and rip to MKV and, if you don't mind losing the subs or just burn the most important one into the picture, MP4 / m4v / mov.
The latter can be played by all the players you've listed natively and isn't locked down with DRM.
Since when is distributing other people's content a big money making business? I thought iTunes was basically a break even business?
Steve Jobs didn't work for the IRS, so he isn't using the IRS definition.
Apple said "1 billion dollar revenue in the last year".
Apple never releases numbers except for product categories, to avoid competitors figuring out what is profitable and what is not. "iPod" is a huge range of totally different products, so competitors have no idea which iPods make money and which don't. There's only _one_ Apple TV product, so giving exact numbers for that one product category would give the game away.
This is a perfect example of what happens when the Jester sits on the King's throne. It all becomes a joke and the reign gets conquered.
Well, that quote is very old. If Apple can't make any money on selling apps / music / videos / ebooks then someone should be fired. It's not the big money maker, but I bet it is better than just "break even".
On the other hand, all that content really just has the purpose of making you buy Apple hardware. Any money made from content is just a bonus. Just like buying an Apple TV makes it harder for you to switch away from an iPhone and gives you reason to switch to an iPhone.
I love my AppleTV - But only because it's such a beauty with my iPhone, iPad, MacBooks and iMacs
Downside to AppleTV is the lack of local apps. Living in the US its probaly okay. But in Denmark and germany there are NO such thing as local apps, except NetFlix and MaxDome.
Sooooo I'm glad I have a Samsung SmartTV - Got local Apps for Denmark. Actually all of the streaming services here has app's for that TV. If Im in my house in Sweden it's the same... And in my German home.
So at that point AppleTV is lagging lightyears behind. And funny. Cos on iPad and iPhone everyone has app's for Apple Product. But AppleTV is a joke locally.
Downside to AppleTV is the lack of local apps. Living in the US its probaly okay. But in Denmark and germany there are NO such thing as local apps, except NetFlix and MaxDome.
Sooooo I'm glad I have a Samsung SmartTV - Got local Apps for Denmark. Actually all of the streaming services here has app's for that TV. If Im in my house in Sweden it's the same... And in my German home.
So at that point AppleTV is lagging lightyears behind. And funny. Cos on iPad and iPhone everyone has app's for Apple Product. But AppleTV is a joke locally.
The problem is even Apple has made it clear they aren't making much money from selling media (music and movies). Running the App Store is really expensive. They do profit more from apps but the aTV as of yet has no access to the App Store. Even when it does, I doubt they would be able to generate enough app sales on a tv device like they do a mobile device. Most of Apple's profit comes from hardware sales of the iPhone.
Roku, whatever. I have a smart tv so I get what I need there.
The AppleTV could be, and should be, so much more.
I really think they should be putting a lot of focus on it to integrate into your entertainment habits. I've said it before but having hdmi pass through to let the iOS UI overlay your tv viewing would be great. Integrating UPnP client services to scan for Plex and of course opening up the App Store to TV apps. Which Yahoo already does for Smart Tvs.
I also like another line of simple Apple Cast type of apple tv that is nothing but an Airplay service HDMI plug. Tons of people probably dont even use appletv's apps and just do as Roku says they do and use it as an iPad accessory. So allow for that market.
The AppleTV could be, and should be, so much more.
I really think they should be putting a lot of focus on it to integrate into your entertainment habits. I've said it before but having hdmi pass through to let the iOS UI overlay your tv viewing would be great. Integrating UPnP client services to scan for Plex and of course opening up the App Store to TV apps. Which Yahoo already does for Smart Tvs.
I also like another line of simple Apple Cast type of apple tv that is nothing but an Airplay service HDMI plug. Tons of people probably dont even use appletv's apps and just do as Roku says they do and use it as an iPad accessory. So allow for that market.
It's very easy to get the subtitles. Just get the softsub file and sync it to the movie.
If the ATV had a native Plex (not Plexconnect), it would be a clear winner. As it stands currently, I rank the Roku best.
Its been seven years. How long do you give a product to find its feet?
If the AppStore comes to AppleTV.
I like my Apple TV, but its not a product apple has invested in. Its more of an accessory. If apple was serious about apple TV in seven years we would not be where we are now..... frankly bugger all has changed compared to the rest of the apple line.
Oh I realize that, and I do that, but I think you have to agree that it is not a solution for the average consumer. I mean the point of the streaming services is that you don't have to do that, and figure out where to store files, etc.
But the average person who owns a smartphone, and has a laptop and maybe a roku box or a apple TV isn't going to want to do this:
buy the disc, buy a dvd or bluray drive, find software which does the rip, figure out if I can just remux to mp4 or I might need to transcode for my device, put it on some place to store it (on my laptop or buy a whole new unit to serve the content), figure out how to setup a dlna server (or mount the network space from my device, or whatever). Nope, nope, nope.
The hope of streaming media is to make it easier and to trade in the DRM for the convenience -- all I am saying is that difficult unless you also want to tie yourself into one of the ecosystems.
Don't defend Apple TV
Apple TV used to be great but it has not kept up with what competitors like Roku are offering. Apple has to take the "hobby" tag off this project and start actually bringing innovation to it, and allow others to innovate on it as well.
I was surprised to find that there is more content on Netflix on my PS4 then through Netflix on the Apple TV, at least shows like Dusk till Dawn and The 100 are not even featured as new releases on Apple TV while I was immediately aware they existed through the PS4's interface. Also something as trivial as automatically starting the next episode of a TV show is a nice feature that is not available on Apple TV, and forget about 3D on Apple TV unless Apple wants to stream their own 3D content through iTunes. Apple is stifling innovation on the Apple TV by forcing Netflix, Hulu and other content providers to adopt Apple's approved UI, which is nothing more then grids and lists. There are more compelling interfaces already on the market, which actually make it easier to find and view content.
Also if Apple is really serious about TV then they might want to start throwing some of them billions into content production as well. Produce some original content to actually attract people to the Appleverse. I mean Amazon and Netflix would never have been considered TV studios 10 years ago, but now have produced some great content which is making it easier for us to unplug from Cable networks. Instead Apple is looking to entrench themselves into the rampant greed of big-Cable which is only going to make them look greedy and evil rather then a champion of the consumer. If I can watch awesome shows like House of Cards for $8/mth, instead of paying $80/mth to view crap derivative network cable content on Apple TV, hmm, what do you think consumers will choose in the future? Also I can see all that crap on Hulu anyways, so what is Apple bringing to the table, just another cable interface box and iDevice content repeater?
This is one area where I think Tim Cook is completely out of his depth. He is starting to be branded as a "maintenance" CEO, maintaining Steve Jobs vision and has no real vision of his own. There is no reason for Apple TV to have not gone through any dramatic changes since the original introduction. Either Tim has to go all in or pull Apple TV off the market because its really becoming an embarrassment for Apple.
Apple TV used to be great but it has not kept up with what competitors like Roku are offering. Apple has to take the "hobby" tag off this project and start actually bringing innovation to it, and allow others to innovate on it as well.
I was surprised to find that there is more content on Netflix on my PS4 then through Netflix on the Apple TV, at least shows like Dusk till Dawn and The 100 are not even featured as new releases on Apple TV while I was immediately aware they existed through the PS4's interface. Also something as trivial as automatically starting the next episode of a TV show is a nice feature that is not available on Apple TV, and forget about 3D on Apple TV unless Apple wants to stream their own 3D content through iTunes. Apple is stifling innovation on the Apple TV by forcing Netflix, Hulu and other content providers to adopt Apple's approved UI, which is nothing more then grids and lists. There are more compelling interfaces already on the market, which actually make it easier to find and view content.
Also if Apple is really serious about TV then they might want to start throwing some of them billions into content production as well. Produce some original content to actually attract people to the Appleverse. I mean Amazon and Netflix would never have been considered TV studios 10 years ago, but now have produced some great content which is making it easier for us to unplug from Cable networks. Instead Apple is looking to entrench themselves into the rampant greed of big-Cable which is only going to make them look greedy and evil rather then a champion of the consumer. If I can watch awesome shows like House of Cards for $8/mth, instead of paying $80/mth to view crap derivative network cable content on Apple TV, hmm, what do you think consumers will choose in the future? Also I can see all that crap on Hulu anyways, so what is Apple bringing to the table, just another cable interface box and iDevice content repeater?
This is one area where I think Tim Cook is completely out of his depth. He is starting to be branded as a "maintenance" CEO, maintaining Steve Jobs vision and has no real vision of his own. There is no reason for Apple TV to have not gone through any dramatic changes since the original introduction. Either Tim has to go all in or pull Apple TV off the market because its really becoming an embarrassment for Apple.
Sounds like he's completely terrified of the new Apple TV update in the works. This is going to be good!
I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve. - Roku Staff