Roku in Talks With Apple About AirPlay 2 Support

[Abazigal]

Anyone willing to pay a starting price of $1000 at 40" LED LCD TV with Apple TV integrated?

Or am I the only one who actually want an Apple TV set? Yes it will be expensive, you can't compare it to TCL or other Android TV which sells your Data as part of the package.

If Apple can make HomePod, why not HomeTV.

Because the Apple TV hardware will likely become outdated long before the tv breaks down.

Why not simply buy any smart tv on the market, not connect it to the internet, and use that to run your Apple TV? It’s cheaper, because the various services likely pay the manufacturer to bundle their services, but that doesn’t mean you have to use them if you don’t want to.

 

[ksec]

Because the Apple TV hardware will likely become outdated long before the tv breaks down.

Why not simply buy any smart tv on the market, not connect it to the internet, and use that to run your Apple TV? It’s cheaper, because the various services likely pay the manufacturer to bundle their services, but that doesn’t mean you have to use them if you don’t want to.

Which is the same across all Android TV. I don't want another thing hanging out of my TV. I don't want a second remote, and have to find the remote for HDMI switching before using another remote for Apple TV. Most of the Android TV UX sucks.

The current A10X is faster than 99% of the Main Processor in Smart TV. And will be likely stay so fo the next 3 - 5 years time. No one is stupid enough to throw a 10 / 7nm SoC into it.

 

[dampfnudel]

Of course they are. This nothing company needs all the help they can get or Apple will just crush them in the long run. They would be stupid to not support it.

Do you even know what you’re talking about? Apple wouldn’t even give Roku the time of day if it was a nothing company. Apple working with Apple TV competitors like Roku, Sony (Android) and Samsung speaks volumes. If you can’t beat them (especially Roku) in the streaming device business, why not make/keep your other devices attractive to the users of those devices? Sure the relationship works both ways, but don’t try to minimize Apple’s eagerness lately to “spread out” and plant Trojan horses in competing devices. It’s smart on both sides, perhaps more beneficial to Apple given the weakness of the Apple TV.

 

[Abazigal]

Which is the same across all Android TV. I don't want another thing hanging out of my TV. I don't want a second remote, and have to find the remote for HDMI switching before using another remote for Apple TV. Most of the Android TV UX sucks.

The current A10X is faster than 99% of the Main Processor in Smart TV. And will be likely stay so fo the next 3 - 5 years time. No one is stupid enough to throw a 10 / 7nm SoC into it.

It’s not about the specs, but that Apple likely isn’t going to “bless” the Apple TV with 10 years’ worth of software upgrades. My 3rd gen Apple TV stopped getting updates like 2 years ago, but it fortunately still supports airplay mirroring, so I use it to mirror my ipad in the classroom. At the price, I have no qualms about tossing it should my ipad ever became incompatible with it.

I get the desire for a single, integrated remote, though I believe the Apple TV remote allows you to switch over with the press of a button.

 

[dampfnudel]

Do any of these devices provide any storage or game performance ability or or the strictly stream only?

Gaming on Apple TV isn’t much of an advantage nor is the storage, at least not for the majority of users. Just because it’s more powerful doesn’t mean it’s significantly more beneficial to the average user.

 

[Shanghaichica]

I guess allowing all these devices to support airplay is confirmation that they are planning to launch their streaming service. They are laying the ground work to ensure that their service can be used on as many platforms as possible.

 

[zombierunner]

I really want it on my lg oled 2016 .. come on LG .. I paid a lot for that ...

 

[fhall1]

Apple should just buy Roku.....pretty much pocket change (compared to Netflix)

 

[Ghost31]

The Roku OS & interface is very clean, intuitive, and impressive... however, the (typically lower priced) television manufacturers that primarily utilize it use silicon ridiculously inferior to an Apple “A Series” chips; you’re left waiting 30 seconds sometimes waiting to stop looking at a Netflix splash screen, for example... even on a more high-end, expensive recent set.

It really depends. I have a newer model LG 4k tv and its smart functionality is absolutely solid. The UI seems just as smooth if not more than my Apple TV. Netflix was a problem on my 4k Apple TV for awhile whereas the one on lg's webos seems to get updated at least once a week to refine it and make it better.

I'm at the point where I'd say if all you do is Netflix and Hulu and youtube, just use something really basic like a stick or smart tv's built in stuff. I can't do that though since I use playstation vue. but I do think things are changing and appletv doesn't seem like much of a priority for apple as it used to be as they're transitioning more into services.

Remember when Apple TV 4 first came out and they were advertising all the apps and how you could play games on it like wow? I don't know anyone that plays games on their apple tv. I think apple knows that

 

[LordVic]

Do any of these devices provide any storage or game performance ability or or the strictly stream only?

Higher tier of Roku's do have local storage and gaming capability.

Nobody uses them because that's not the core purposes of these devices. they're not gaming machines or local media centers. They're streaming media boxes.

if your goal is to get a streaming media box to go along side your 4k TV, how well it plays games or how much local content it stores is really a tertiary capability. It will help some people who want that functionality, but we've seen with modern content that for the most part, users fire up their {netflix, sports streaming, Prime} and just stream. For those who have the niche case that they want to play their iOS games on TV, than the AppleTV is an option.

But for everyone else who just need 4k streaming? why pay such a premium price for AppleTV when built in Smart Apps or a < $70 box can do the job perfectly well?

The AppleTV is great. the UI is good and some of the apps features are unmatched. But at the end of the day, it's hard to really convince consumers that Apple's $229 (CAD) is a better choice than a Roku at $90 (CAD).

Up till now, Apple has been losing the war for access to our eyeballs from the big screen. This is in part due to ridiculous closing of the ecosystem. Tied in with excessive price of their devices to do so.

The move to get AirPlay2 onto TV's at no real cost to the user, either via smart TV or Roku is a great move for Apple. Especially as they expand into original content. They will need as many eyeballs on their content as possible if they hope to compete with the likes of Prime or Netflix. And not rely only on their own hardware users.
[doublepost=1549373139][/doublepost]

We had great integrated systems among all venders until today. Called a wire. Need to change a device, add to ones system, easy, connect to the wire.

Now along comes the electronic wire WiFi, and the connection became vender specific. Limited to no mixing of devices outside of the first venders system one picks. Or scraping and starting again. Apple Airplay 2 has the potential to fix the electronic wire WiFi mess.

Would it not be nice to have Apple, Google, Amazon, Roku, Sonos all integrated with Apple Airplay 2? Then we the consumers would have choices as to what device meets are needs, maybe all of them on one system. The best solution would be to open source Airplay 2 or another like software to accomplish a standard.

Starting to miss the the old days of the wire.

nobody is precluding you from continuing to use a wire if yo'd like. I'm sure you could get a lightning to HDMI dongle somewhere and try plugging your phone in everytime you want to watch.


but that really doesn't sound all that convenient..
[doublepost=1549373230][/doublepost]

Apple should just buy Roku.....pretty much pocket change (compared to Netflix)

Ahh, never can go a single thread without some wise crack about Apple buying the Competitor / Vendor the article talks about.

Here's a tip: NOT everything is for sale. Just because you have the money, doesn't mean they'll sell it to you.

Like right now, you could offer me all the money in the world, I'm not selling you my morning coffee.

 

[9081094]

Anyone willing to pay a starting price of $1000 at 40" LED LCD TV with Apple TV integrated?

Or am I the only one who actually want an Apple TV set? Yes it will be expensive, you can't compare it to TCL or other Android TV which sells your Data as part of the package.

If Apple can make HomePod, why not HomeTV.

I’ve bought a LG-Oled tv and it has web os 4.0 included (webos comes from Palm which bought it from Apple, the Newton OS I believe). It’s snappy, clean, supports Dolby Atmos and vision and does all the things the AppleTV does, all integrated. So the first thing I did was removing the Apple TV. The less different boxes, the better and less cable clutter too.

The LG didn’t come cheap, but the processor it uses is as speedy as my Apple TV. At least the experience is .

I think most new smart TVs do offer the same as the Apple TV does. Apple properly knows this and is trying to offer their services through AirPlay and make deals like they did with Samsung and others. The customer will benefit I think.

Unless you have an older tv model, I don’t see a bright future for AppleTV because it’s being overhauled.

 

[Fidgetyrat]

My home is mostly Apple except for the TVs that all use Rokus, mainly because a few years ago the ATVs were not up to snuff and were way over priced. We pretty much only use them for Plex. I was considering an Apple Music subscription a while back which would go nicely with all my devices except my television since Apple doesn't allow Apple Music on Roku so it was a no-go. I'm certainly not going out and replacing three Rokus with ATVs that cost so much more just for Music.

If apple is serious about improving their subscription services, moves like this are critical, especially to get people outside the ecosystem involved.

 

[EmanP]

"With AirPlay 2 support, Roku users would be able to stream video, audio, photos, and more directly from an iPhone, iPad, or Mac to their smart TVs. HomeKit is also coming to many smart TVs, enabling users to control volume, playback, and more using Siri or the Home app on an iPhone, iPad, or Mac."

@MacRumors I believe this information is false as the MFI available only supports Audio and NOT video.

 

[LordVic]

I’ve bought a LG-Oled tv and it has web os 4.0 included (webos comes from Palm which bought it from Apple, the Newton OS I believe). It’s snappy, clean, supports Dolby Atmos and vision and does all the things the AppleTV does, all integrated. So the first thing I did was removing the Apple TV. The less different boxes, the better and less cable clutter too.

The LG didn’t come cheap, but the processor it uses is as speedy as my Apple TV. At least the experience is .

I think most new smart TVs do offer the same as the Apple TV does. Apple properly knows this and is trying to offer their services through AirPlay and make deals like they did with Samsung and others. The customer will benefit I think.

Unless you have an older tv model, I don’t see a bright future for AppleTV because it’s being overhauled.

Got a new LG TV for the mainroom a couple months ago. 75" LCD smart TV. It's the first TV we've owned where we didn't feel the need for any 3rd party settop box. it's NOT the highest end range either so not LG's best of the best.

The UI is quick and snappy. the Apps load in < 5 seconds. Netflix, Prime, Hulu, Google Movies and TV, etc.

Apple looks like they finally learned in 2019 that they need to get into this market with software support for more TVs because the Apple TV did not nearly sell enough to provide a large enough installation base for it's streaming content platform.

 

[deconstruct60]

I still don't understand why Apple are doing this.

Number of eyeballs looking at content matters when negotiating with the content vendors to 'unbundle' channels and services. There are lots of indicators that Apple is going to try to jump into expand past just selling shows on iTunes and into selling streaming access to them. ( Similar to what they have done in audio .... largely moved from selling audio to selling renting of audio. ).

The number of AppleTV out there is much smaller than modern Roku boxes.

"... Roku, which went held an initial public offering in February, was steady as the market leader with 37% share, the same as last year and up from 33% two years ago. Apple captured 15% of the market, the same as last year and down from 19% in 2016, Parks said. ..."
http://fortune.com/2018/05/31/internet-video-roku-apple-tv-chromcast/

[ And yes just having AirPlay2 and not an "TV app" more so makes the Roku more like a Chromecast than a first class streamer. however, this is probably a first step. Apple does have a "TV app" deal with Samsung ... Roku isn't the only play. ]

That means there are more "big screen" eyeballs on Roku driven content than on AppleTV. ( the numbers above point to as much as twice as many). Also notice the longer term trend line there where AppleTV is actually sliding backward as a percentage of the market.


Apple push into positioning AppleTV as much less expense than a gaming console ( cheaper than Xbox , Playstation , etc) hasn't really held up from the push that Amazon Fire and Roku have made.

From another part of the article ....

"... Of all households with broadband Internet connections, 40% now have an Internet video streaming device, up from 6% in 2010, Parks said. ..."

As more TVs roll out with integrated "Smart TV" that market penetration is only going to be substantially deeper. So basically here is Apples situation.

The market is getting to that maturation stage and Apple is falling behind in share and eyeballs.

Throw on top that the content folks they are trying to neogiate with are all rolling out direct to consumer apps on Roku , Android TV , and FireTV. Users won't need a Apple device to access the content at all. Loose the user interaction .... how does Apple 'win' long term??? They can resign themselves to when out and only have an iPhone they "have" you but that's limited.



iTunes audio started off Mac (and highly tethered iPod ) only. But that capped it because most folks have Windows PCs. Essesntially same thing here. The dominate "Smart TV" platform is not going to be tvOS. Of the three major multiple vendor ones Roku , Android TV , and FireTV . Roku makes lots of sense because also not a direct competitor of Apple's content streaming services ( Goole Play and Prime Video are. )

Airplay was problematic at streaming just audio on many different brands of iPhone docks a few years back before many changed to Bluetooth. Streaming 1080p HD with a tiny buffer allowance will be an absolute nightmare if not correctly implemented.

Software or Wi-Fi quality ? Also probably didn't work via Wi-Fi direct either. ( If the iOS devices and the TV in the same room open a point-to-point Wi-Fi direct link the bandwidth shouldn't be as much of an issue as it previously was. ) Second AirPlay2 is probably a stepping stone to making the something that is either much more like a Chromecast. "AirPlay3" could be where iOS device tells the TV player which stream to pull from more directly. Or Apple gets a TV app onto platform ( like Samsung ) and iOS device does handoff and/or acts like a smart remote control.

And then, Apple will get the blame from the end user!

It would be simple to add some part AirPlay protocol to figure out what kind of bandwidth have and to just abort when quality is just too low. And TV (something to see) makes it far more likely in the same room. In short, there are steps that Apple can take to improve the quality of the streaming. I'm sure they will still get contacted to blame for problems, but some level of that comes from just selling a device.

Not sure if Apple's gone a little crazy, lost direction, both or is simply trying to make as much money as possible before all of the older guys retire! But to me, it's lacking direction and is simply throwing the Apple eco system and it's reliability along with everything that it stood for out of the window.

Crazy would be handing out $1-2 Billion dollars to create TV content and not trying to get it on as many actually TVs as possible to recoup the investment. Also kind of crazy would be standing idling by while about 95+% of the TV market goes to internal stream apps. Buying another external streamer after already bought one with the TV at 2x the price of the other external streamers is a tough market to crack.... even for Apple.

 

[Gudd]

Airplay 2 on Roku stick would be huge for me, if it somehow helps with Homekit and Siri then all well and great but I'm struggling to see where it would come into that.

I recently bought a Roku stick for the main TV. I could only find 4 devices that offered all of the options in the UK. PS4 which we did use but I was fed up of the noise it makes - the fan is really quite loud. Xbox One, ATV and Roku. We have an ATV but generation 3 and the Now TV app is terrible on it so I was not about to spend £179 on a new ATV, so we got the Roku at something like £70. Very happy with it and it's basically the best option to have NowTV, Netflix and Amazon Prime all on the one box in the UK (that I could find at least). I didn't look at Google. I never look at Google if I can help it.

 

[deconstruct60]

"With AirPlay 2 support, Roku users would be able to stream video, audio, photos, and more directly from an iPhone, iPad, or Mac to their smart TVs. HomeKit is also coming to many smart TVs, enabling users to control volume, playback, and more using Siri or the Home app on an iPhone, iPad, or Mac."

@MacRumors I believe this information is false as the MFI available only supports Audio and NOT video.

Maybe should tell Apple. ...


".... Leading TV manufacturers are integrating AirPlay 2 directly into their TVs, so now you can effortlessly share or mirror almost anything from your iOS device or Mac directly to your AirPlay 2–enabled smart TV. You can even play music on the TV and sync it with other AirPlay 2–compatible speakers anywhere in your home. ..."
https://www.apple.com/airplay/

Kind of odd that it is "can even play music" if that was all it was limited to in the first place.

Roku's feature is not particularly different from what Vizio is getting.

"... AirPlay 2 support will allow users to stream videos, music, photos, and more directly from an iPhone, iPad, and Mac to SmartCast-enabled Vizio TVs, ... "
https://www.macrumors.com/2019/01/07/vizio-smart-tvs-airplay-2-homekit/

 

[Mac 128]

Indeed. If Apple is going to crash any of these big TV players, it needs to bring up something revolutionary and totally a game changer (like iPhone was on 2007) Otherwise it has absolutely no chance. Both LG and Samsung are coming up with some mesmerizing TV's.

I don’t know how Apple could bring a TV to market against LG and Samsung which manufacture their own panels. Even competing against a high end maker like Sony, Apple is still only bringing hardware design and tvOS to the table in a TV and that only goes so far to driving a profitable market. My 65” Sony is hanging on a wall and there’s very little Apple could do to improve the looks of it. But I’d pay a mint to have it running off an A10 chip and using tvOS. They’re better off partnering with someone to supply their OS to than building their own.

LG is a good candidate, as WebOS is good, but it’s not widely supported outside the major streaming apps. Both would benefit from that partnership.

 

[Shanghaichica]

I still don't understand why Apple are doing this. Airplay was problematic at streaming just audio on many different brands of iPhone docks a few years back before many changed to Bluetooth. Streaming 1080p HD with a tiny buffer allowance will be an absolute nightmare if not correctly implemented. And then, Apple will get the blame from the end user!
Not sure if Apple's gone a little crazy, lost direction, both or is simply trying to make as much money as possible before all of the older guys retire! But to me, it's lacking direction and is simply throwing the Apple eco system and it's reliability along with everything that it stood for out of the window.

They are doing it for the streaming service. They don’t only want to target Apple TV customers or even just Apple customers. They want want to streaming service to be available cross platform.

 

[truthertech]

Yeah, pretty sure you've got that backwards. Apple is getting crushed in the streaming device market because like usual, they've created a niche device that costs 5x as much as what the competition is selling, without 5x the functionality to back it up. Getting AirPlay into devices like Roku and the new TVs that were announced at CES is a way for Apple to have an "in."

No, Apple isn't being crushed in streaming devices. Apple is almost certainly the only one making money producing them. It's pretty well conceded that most companies are selling their devices at a loss in order to get your private data to sell. Apple hasn't to date wanted to play in those low/no profit games whether it is in streaming devices, smart phones, tablets, etc. It's not in their DNA to produce cheeper products to get market share, but rather just keep producing quality products for the discerning audience.
[doublepost=1549378272][/doublepost]

It's like apple Is giving less and less reasons to buy an Apple TV. AFTER I ALREADY BOUGHT TWO

You are always going to get a better experience with Apple TV having more options, and most importantly, protecting your privacy. Remember when you use any of the other boxes/TV's to stream, they are capturing all of your private data to resell.

 

[Baymowe335]

Do you even know what you’re talking about? Apple wouldn’t even give Roku the time of day if it was a nothing company. Apple working with Apple TV competitors like Roku, Sony (Android) and Samsung speaks volumes. If you can’t beat them (especially Roku) in the streaming device business, why not make/keep your other devices attractive to the users of those devices? Sure the relationship works both ways, but don’t try to minimize Apple’s eagerness lately to “spread out” and plant Trojan horses in competing devices. It’s smart on both sides, perhaps more beneficial to Apple given the weakness of the Apple TV.

Roku is beating themselves. They lose money hand over fist. They will bend to anything Apple wants to get more people to use their product or they won't exist soon.

 

[Mac 128]

It really depends. I have a newer model LG 4k tv and its smart functionality is absolutely solid. The UI seems just as smooth if not more than my Apple TV. Netflix was a problem on my 4k Apple TV for awhile whereas the one on lg's webos seems to get updated at least once a week to refine it and make it better.

I'm at the point where I'd say if all you do is Netflix and Hulu and youtube, just use something really basic like a stick or smart tv's built in stuff. I can't do that though since I use playstation vue. but I do think things are changing and appletv doesn't seem like much of a priority for apple as it used to be as they're transitioning more into services.

Remember when Apple TV 4 first came out and they were advertising all the apps and how you could play games on it like wow? I don't know anyone that plays games on their apple tv. I think apple knows that

I had a 2017 LCD LG, which I returned for poor picture quality. But the processor was snappy and WebOS was a delight. I really miss both of those things on my Sony. Maybe LG will outperform the other TV manufacturers in that respect, only time will tell. But the other platforms, not so much. Android is abuggy mess, and Samsung is not much better. Roku is great, but I don’t know how well Vizio is able to support future updates.

Smart TVs seem like the perfect solution now, especially for the price of some of them, but for customers who have never had one, they’re going to find out soo enough (perhaps less so with LG) that in a few years, maybe more; but definitely less than the life of the TV, that hardware limitations, or just neglect of old models, are going to limit the future functionality and updates of the apps and OS. And that’s when customers are going to have to buy external boxes to keep their otherwise perfectly functional TV going with their favorite stuff.

 

[deconstruct60]

No, Apple isn't being crushed in streaming devices. Apple is almost certainly the only one making money producing them.

Errr... No.

"... Roku, which went held an initial public offering in February, was steady as the market leader with 37% share, the same as last year and up from 33% two years ago. Apple captured 15% of the market, the same as last year and down from 19% in 2016, Parks said. ..."
http://fortune.com/2018/05/31/internet-video-roku-apple-tv-chromcast/

First, Apple market share is going backwards. You could hand wave about how they are just sliding backwards into the profitable subsegment of the market and that the rest 'doesn't matter'. .... but that missing the point.

Two, no player .... no viewers. If Apple is paying a $1-2B to create TV content and can't get that money back that it won't particularly matter that apple makes money on AppleTV if they loose money on their "Content" Studio".

Three, these "discrete streaming players" grossly ignores the fact that where the TV market is going. A very substantively of TVs already have a straemer built int. Roku is actually one of the multiple platform smart TV OS vendors ( Roku, AndroidTV , FireTV) that is rapidly growing much faster than Apple. And the primary TV makers are making more money at selling TVs than Apple is. It is "fat" Apple margins but they are making something.

Four, in the USA many of the cable/sat vendors are moving to TV over IP boxes. For example, last year Apple got a bump out of DirecTVNow handing out AppleTVs at a discount if folks prepaid for service. In 2019, that isn't going to happen. DirectTV will have their own box to hand out.

https://9to5google.com/2018/10/24/android-tv-set-top-box-att/

So not only are the TVs all coming with SmartTV but even the "cable box" is getting into same game. There is some offset ( e.g., Spectrum is allowing AppleTV and Roku and FireTV boxes to sub in as a cable box), but the competition for placement of streaming hardware is just getting deeper with players with bigger pockets. Guess what? the cable/sat compaines are making money "cable/sat boxes". DirectTV will make some just by not subsidizing AppleTV boxes as "give aways".


From same Fortune article above

"... Of all households with broadband Internet connections, 40% now have an Internet video streaming device, up from 6% in 2010, Parks said. ..."

It isn't going to take another 8 years to cover another 40% of available household. AppleTV is not growing anywhere near that fast at all. AppleTV is going to get left far behind.

In order to remain viable as source of TV eyeballs Apple has to move here. It is not solely a position of strength and Roku is not solely weak.


Roku isn't profitable largely only be they are spending lots of R&D to keep up with the Amazon's and AndroidTV. That spend have a very substantially reasonably good chance of paying off if the flip on "cable/sat box" goes to thrid party vendors in reasonable way. Roku is somewhat of the "Switzerland" in that in that FireTV/Prime Video and AndroidTV/YoutubeTV are both competitors and partners with the cable/sat content streamers. Exactly why Netflix cut Roku loose close to the beginning. As a "cover everyones channel" it has a smoother path.

It's pretty well conceded that most companies are selling their devices at a loss in order to get your private data to sell.

Where Apple taking a sizable skim out of the Netflix subscription is fair. And I have a nice bright orange bridge to sell you if you think Apple isn't using aggregate viewer data to negotiate pricing on the content buys they make and in the direct content they produce.

Apple hasn't to date wanted to play in those low/no profit games whether it is in streaming devices, smart phones, tablets, etc. It's not in their DNA to produce cheeper products to get market share, but rather just keep producing quality products for the discerning audience.

The problem is that when a content creator then market share does matter. The more billions apple plows into content creation the more having eyeballs will become. The primary driver here isn't about hardware sales. And they probably will not switch to a model of cheaper tvOS for eyeballs. However, that will mean they'll need to jump onto the same platforms that do have other models.

You are always going to get a better experience with Apple TV having more options, and most importantly, protecting your privacy. Remember when you use any of the other boxes/TV's to stream, they are capturing all of your private data to resell.

Sell ads into a demographic and aggregate user data are different that personal data.

 

[truthertech]

[QUOTE="Sell ads into a demographic and aggregate user data are different that personal data.[/QUOTE]


OH naive one. It doesn't work that way. Yes, your data is sold to advertisers who want to target ads to you, but your viewing habits, what you like, when you are home, where you live, what other devices you connect, what you say in front of it, your family's bio data, etc., etc., are all captured and resold to data brokers, including companies like Google and Facebook who buy it and add to your virtual dossier.

If you have a smart TV, best advice is to use Apple TV to stream all your content through it, a device that has the opposite goal--to protect your privacy.

 

[deconstruct60]

Roku is beating themselves. They lose money hand over fist. They will bend to anything Apple wants to get more people to use their product or they won't exist soon.

Roku is spending lots of money to hold their place. Apple is sliding backwards. The one more on track to sliding out of existence is Apple TV ( since relatively decreasing year over year). The competition is not purely Roku vs Apple. There are several players here. Some of about as deep pockets in this submarket as much as Apple is probably willing to spend.
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[QUOTE="Sell ads into a demographic and aggregate user data are different that personal data.

OH naive one. It doesn't work that way. Yes, your data is sold to advertisers who want to target ads to you, but your viewing habits, what you like, when you are home, where you live, what other devices you connect, what you say in front of it, your family's bio data, etc., etc., are all captured and resold to data brokers, including companies like Google and Facebook who buy it and add to your virtual dossier. [/quote]

You're the one who is naive. Apple is collecting that same info and using it to buy discounts from content creation folks. That data is on the negotiating table so it is transferred and transfer is grounded around money.

If you have a smart TV, best advice is to use Apple TV to stream all your content through it, a device that has the opposite goal--to protect your privacy.

Aggregation is protection of privacy. However to get to the aggregation they do need to use personal data. They have to aggregate something.

Privacy is loss on ads isn't the collection and aggregating of person data but in enabling things like cross site tracking of the delivered ads. Those tracking IDs are not your personal data though.