Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
RoughlyDrafted is infamous for making up "facts" and then basing bogus opinions and predictions on them.

ArsTechnica is another site in the same vein, but with pseudo-engineering as the highlight.

Both are often cited as factual sources, when they're rarely anything of the sort. They play to the naive and uninformed.

RoughlyDrafted is highly biased. I have never seen them making up anything. And I'd really like you to give us an example where ArsTechnica is "pseudo"-anything.
 
iPhone web apps can be stored locally too
its just that most devs don't utilize this capability

I know -- using data URIs -- but it's more a hack than a practical solution. It's cumbersome and performance is less than stellar.
 
RoughlyDrafted is infamous for making up "facts" and then basing bogus opinions and predictions on them.

ArsTechnica is another site in the same vein, but with pseudo-engineering as the highlight.

Both are often cited as factual sources, when they're rarely anything of the sort. They play to the naive and uninformed.

Dang... But you know what, Daniel makes a good reading article. Care to demonstrate some examples? Those are large slurs against him.

He makes some interesting points, you have to give him that. (e.g. see the fawning Scoble et al had over the Pre). No price point, and coming in a few months? It has fancy graphics, for sure, but then the iPhone could if it wanted to, match that. It goes for a simpler, clean UI approach.
Catchy title: The emporer's new phone
Palm simply showed up with a copycat iPhone interface two years late. - Not exactly
He has a point about how people complained about the SDK till it came. A lot.
The concept of calling the apps widgets. Which, they are in a way - they'd run as a widget effectively.
Interestingly, if they are just HTML, js web apps, then presumably they could run on the iPhone also, with minor tweaking.
Can the Pre do gaming? Any word on GPS? Deals with Google?

The Pre is just being announced. It doesn't have a price, or a release date. It's version 1 near the time iPhone will be turning version 3.
There are great things about Palm products. There have been cases made showing that the iPhone, Touch lack some of this functionality. But in the end, it's late to the party, and having to catch up.
Case in point - anyone still crazy over the N96? N97? Blackberry Storm? What happened to the XPERIA?

"The iPhone runs real apps and processes concurrently, it just doesn’t allow third parties to install background servers and apps that refuse to shutdown when the user hits the home button. That’s not a “missing feature” that can be improved upon with competitive bullet point marketing fluff, it’s a purposeful engineering decision Apple made that might someday be answered by the availability of greater resources."

Another point - will Palm gain a significant chunk of the market? Well, how's the Android G1 doing? Blacberry Storm? How's Microsoft's response with Windows Mobile coming along?

Is the Pre like the Android, in that "every time you ever want to enter a character, you’ll need to slide the keyboard down and start thumb typing, except your key targets will be far tinier than even the mini-keyboards of phones like the Android-based G1." ?
How about a touch screen that you have to click? ...

Where are the Pre's key assets? Software, at a pretty basic in some eyes level. And it's twice as thick as the 3G iPhone.

Let's not forget Daniel did actually share a few small positives for the Pre, rather than slur his name and say he didn't:

"Palm has remixed a few iPhone features to make them different and arguably improved (such as a fancier view of tabs in the browser, or integrated mail and instant messenger inboxes)’"

Did he give no backing for saying why Palm was being a copycat? Hmm:
"And the Pre is a shameless clone; Palm has copied the iPhone’s design down to even minor details, from oval number badges to many of its icons. This isn’t innovation as much as imitation. The iPhone is a good starting place, so there’s nothing really wrong with copying the elements it got right. What’s really wrong with the Pre is that in areas where Palm has introduced something new, it has created a bland, flat interface that appears minimal but is really just lacking."
So that'd be design at several levels. Not a comprehensive list, but a good starting point to make your own judgements.

Maybe his use of copy is harsh - as Apple got in their first pretty much, comparisons are made to what it did first.

"Palm has accomplished step one in defeating Apple: introducing copycat hardware that apes some of the iPhone’s features....that’s not enough to claim victory.

The real test will come when Palm reveals how well it can execute in copying Apple’s business acumen, marketing savvy, customer support, ongoing software development, security refreshes, and industrial design enhancements. "
Replace "copy" with "be as good as", and the article might sit better with some of you.

I think the press missed a trick when they didn't see that iLife 09 and iWork 09 may well have to be viewed in the context of use both with Macs, but also via iPhones creating or editing content for those suites. Does the Pre have that integration?

Wireless charging. So the charger is wireless? Hmm, nope, you just put your phone on the charger dock, rather than place it into a charger dock. Except the Apple charger dock, you can reuse that cable. And have it running from mains, or USB.

You know what's simmering underneath this? The press, and us, don't have the ruddy foggiest what Apple could pull out of the bag with OS 3.0, and v3 iPhone (Janus points this out also in the comments). Will they keep the momentum? My sneaky feeling is the iLife (e.g. video stabilisation, geotagging photos etc) is a great asset to link in with an iPhone that has video. Hmmm, that'd be in a few months potentially, right about when the Pre comes out.
Except Apple will have sold on average, in all likelihood, ~ $1 million a day in sales of apps. Remember in the same breath of the lauded reviews were comments that this was a play to get bought up.

Finally, as Daniel points out:
"I should point out that this article isn’t a review of the Pre as much as a castigation of the media for being so quick to overlook any obvious problems in order to hail every new product as an iPhone Killer.
I mentioned the Gesture Bar (essentially a touch sensitive Home button that allows for more interface complexity than just a single or double click as the iPhone’s does) as an interesting feature, and the Pre says it supports copy/paste, global search, and integrated messaging.

However, before anyone makes any feature comparisons to the iPhone, keep in mind that Apple is already well ahead in other areas that are more significant, and that the Pre isn’t on sale yet. Once its finished, priced and ready for sale later this year, we can see whether the Pre still has any features that the iPhone lacks, and how much of a pricing premium those features carry."
Let's not forget Dan has a spleen that needs regular exercise. And he's getting back on form ;) He seems happy to talk if you leave a comment on the post.
 
And I'd really like you to give us an example where ArsTechnica is "pseudo"-anything.

My favorite was their "EDGE vs 3G battery test". They took two totally different models (iPhone and I think a Samsung?) and ran various seventh grade style comparisons to see how long the batteries last. The "result" was that the iPhone lasted something like 30% longer, "proving" 3G would be a battery hog on the iPhone.

One thing they didn't point out, was that they clearly used the smallest stock battery on the 3G phone (I think 900 mAh) vs the 1400 mAh on the iPhone. If they'd used the (also stock) extended 3G battery, then their results would have gone the other way.

But that obviously wasn't their purpose. They were trying to justify the lack of 3G in the original iPhone, just like tons of other Apple fansites at the time. You remember those, always trying to prove that "EDGE is as fast as 3G" ?

When we compare devices in our own labs, we take them apart and put an ammeter in line with the battery so we can measure actual power usage for each feature on the phone... instead of guessing like they did. And we don't start with a predetermined result. So yeah, ArsTechnica often uses pseudo engineering that impresses non-engineers only.
 
My favorite was their "EDGE vs 3G battery test". They took two totally different models (iPhone and I think a Samsung?) and ran various seventh grade style comparisons to see how long the batteries last. The "result" was that the iPhone lasted something like 30% longer, "proving" 3G would be a battery hog on the iPhone.

(A far more valid test is to take a single 3G phone and try it with 3G on or off.)

One thing they didn't point out, was that they clearly used the smallest stock battery on the 3G phone (I think 900 mAh) vs the 1400 mAh on the iPhone. If they'd used the (also stock) extended 3G battery, then their results would have gone the other way.

But that obviously wasn't their purpose. They were trying to justify the lack of 3G in the original iPhone, just like tons of other Apple fansites at the time. You remember those, always trying to prove that "EDGE is as fast as 3G" ?

When we compare devices in our own labs, we take them apart and put an ammeter in line with the battery so we can measure actual power usage for each feature on the phone... instead of guessing like they did. So yeah, ArsTechnica often uses pseudo engineering that impresses non-engineers only.

And does that 3G chip, when measured correctly, draw more power? Any stats on what it actually takes, versus EDGE? It seemed the storm on that one blew and blew, but no real stats hit the headlines...
 
for the ones that missed the palm pré keynote, the device will work with telenav.
also theres no big deal with the inductor charger since its optional.
 
So, I read the etire thing and decided to delve a little deeper and find out maybe a little more about the author as you all talk about him like you've known him forever. I clicked the "about" tab and, well this is about all I could find on this guy...

"Hi, I’m Daniel Eran Dilger, a tech consultant and writer in San Francisco, California. I ride a motorcycle and I like to work on art projects."

...ok...so, I like motorcycles as well so I guess that's sort of cool...

Why is this guy so special? He post his opinions on how the Palm isn't going to amount to anything special with this new phone and everyone here is going gah gah.

What's the difference in reading this and/or, well....reading another well thought out 'thread' on MR posted by anyone else?

TBH I'd rather hear more of what tOmatO up ^^^ there has to say as I find his post much more interesting and informative.

Sorry, don't mean to harp on the guy, maybe I just need to go into the archives to appreciate his insight.

Thanks. :eek:
 
This is just another gagging example of how the tech media can complain about the downsides of getting Christmas ponies from Apple while marveling at the potential of diamonds from the chunks of coal thrown at them by other tech companies.

Damn straight. Some things never change. Apple was ripped by the geekocracy for iPhone applets but now Palm is being lauded for doing the same thing. Spare me the hypocrisy!
 
Looks like zdnet's Editor in Chief has gone luke warm on the Pre...
That's a total fluff piece. Here's one paragraph that's devoid of any facts:
Remember a lot of the people that would love to get a Pre are locked into contracts for the iPhone, Google’s G1 phone with T-Mobile and the BlackBerry Storm with Verizon Wireless. Bottom line: The people that are most likely to be evangelists for Palm are tied up elsewhere.

Would you pay a financial penalty to get a Palm Pre? I didn’t think so.
Unless he has facts to back up this statement, it's total conjecture. How does he know that everyone that is looking at the Pre is locked into contracts? Is he insinuating that there are no more potential iPhone, G1 and Storm users? That everyone that wanted a smartphone has already bought one? Silly.
 
Damn straight. Some things never change. Apple was ripped by the geekocracy for iPhone applets but now Palm is being lauded for doing the same thing. Spare me the hypocrisy!

You have to get your facts straight first. You're confused by the names and that Pre's initial apps can be written in an easy way akin to hundreds of widgets.

Apple was ripped for web apps because they 1) relied on outside servers, 2) thus relied on possible non-existent comms and/or couldn't be stored locally without hacks, 3) especially had no access to iPhone internals, 4) at first still had the browser ornaments. In other words, they were just links to web pages.

Palm's apps are local, standalone, able to access internal calls, look like apps. Very, very different.
 
Good article. Note that the nay sayers cannot prove any substantial part of it wrong.

Note that the pre is just a demo. No specs have been set.

Huh? Synergy? What's that?

(P.S. I know the dictionary definiton of "synergy," I just haven't heard how it's a feature of the Pre.)

That's because he thought he would sound smart by using a word he doesn't understand.

Dan just posted an article titles "Macworld 09 Infamy Awards"

Though this was so funny:

Ha ha ha ha :D

Nice!
 
I dont see how people could say the Palm Pre is an iPhone copycat. How did Palm copy off of apple other than an App Store? Because the iPhone has 3rd party apps? Palms have had 3rd party apps for years? because its touchscreen? Palm have been touchscreen for years. because you push little icons such as a calculator to open the app? Palm Treos have been like that for years. Who copied who? Since the iPhone has SMS did Apple copy someone? Since the iPhone has a calculator did they copy? Since the iPhone has a calendar did they copy? Other phones have had GPS for years so did Apple copy? How come Apple never copies but everyone else does?

I also dont see why so many people who own iPhones are against any other phone and want to see them all fail except the iPhone? Unless you own a major amount of Apple stock and are making a fortune based on Apple doing well I dont see why you would care.

Anyone who thinks Palm or anyone is too late has to be crazy. First of all Palm has been around for years and have a large number of users already. Apple is the one who came into the cellphone market late and look how successful they have been so far. Also, most people replace their phones every year or two so if someone already has an iPhone today doesnt mean they will have an iPhone for life. Maybe something else such as the Pre or Android will spark their interest at that time.

By the way I own a 3G iPhone and I usually buy a new phone every single year and switch carriers all the time too. Maybe I will go to Palm or Android next or maybe I will get the next iPhone. And if I did switch maybe I would be back to the iPhone again in the future. Who knows.
 
How come Apple never copies but everyone else does?

Because many people never knew what you could with smartphones until Apple made a lot of noise. To them, it all started with Apple.

Ironically, years ago everyone called every PDA a "Palm Pilot", no matter who made it, because Palm used to be the best known name.

I also dont see why so many people who own iPhones are against any other phone and want to see them all fail except the iPhone?

The adults here are okay with more phone makers doing well.
 
I dont see how people could say the Palm Pre is an iPhone copycat.

I don't think that Palm copied any particular feature of the iPhone. But the whole concept of the Pre was to create something like the iPhone that they could improve on in certain areas to cater to a different group of consumers. They even went out and hired former Apple executives and engineers to design it! It is a clear reaction to the iPhone.

Of course, there is nothing wrong with that. No patents appear to be stepped on. And there is clearly some innovation in the way that it consolidates information from different sources into one interface. Palm knows sync.

Now we just have to wait to see if it works well.
 
:rolleyes:

Why bother responding to someone that jumps to that conclusion IF he read it.

IF.

Look, I wanted to say this in a more elegant way, but this article is horrendous. It sounds like a 7th grader defending his political viewpoints with arguments straight out of the middle-school lunchroom. Things like, "it would be cool, but they just copied the iPhone and they are two years late" isn't substantive, it's not even insightful. The Palm Pre brings something very different to the mobile arena. It can multitask, the iPhone can't. It has innovative gestures, such as bringing up an application launcher. It has an innovative design; it's not the first phone with a slide down keyboard, but it's the first one with a multi-touch screen combined with a dedicated gesture area. It's innovative in its software; it brings together multiple online services to create a repository for your online information.

Stop bashing and get it together. Defending Apple's products through sheer lunacy and vitriolic hatred of other companies isn't only pathetic, it makes Apple users look even more like ignorant fanboys incapable of making rational arguments. The Pre looks to be good, the iPhone is good. The Pre will make the iPhone better through increased competition. Stop complaining and live your life.
 
I find it funny that he actually cranks out that much "insight" in his review without an actual Pre in hand
 
Look, I wanted to say this in a more elegant way, but this article is horrendous. It sounds like a 7th grader defending his political viewpoints with arguments straight out of the middle-school lunchroom. Things like, "it would be cool, but they just copied the iPhone and they are two years late" isn't substantive, it's not even insightful. The Palm Pre brings something very different to the mobile arena. It can multitask, the iPhone can't. It has innovative gestures, such as bringing up an application launcher. It has an innovative design; it's not the first phone with a slide down keyboard, but it's the first one with a multi-touch screen combined with a dedicated gesture area. It's innovative in its software; it brings together multiple online services to create a repository for your online information.

Stop bashing and get it together. Defending Apple's products through sheer lunacy and vitriolic hatred of other companies isn't only pathetic, it makes Apple users look even more like ignorant fanboys incapable of making rational arguments. The Pre looks to be good, the iPhone is good. The Pre will make the iPhone better through increased competition. Stop complaining and live your life.

Agree completely.
 
I don't think the Pre is innovative per se, I just think that it does the same thing that Apple often does with their devices: it combines a variety of technologies and UI concepts, and does so pretty well.

The Pre isn't the first phone to use touch gestures -- the iPhone has them too. The Pre isn't the first one to "bring together multiple online services to create a repository for your online information" -- Android phones have that too. The Pre isn't the first phone to offer a QWERTY keypad -- tons of phones have that.

But the fact that the Pre isn't first doesn't necessarily matter. The iPhone wasn't the first device to employ a lot of the UI paradigms that it uses, but it was one of the most successful implementations. With the Pre, what ultimately matters is not whether it's employing innovative new concepts -- it only matters if it uses new technologies in a way that makes the user more productive. *That* is what the Pre will ultimately be judged on: how well it helps users carry out the smartphone task set (SMS, phone calls, e-mails, light web browsing.)
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.