Roundup: First-Look Impressions of the New Mac Pro

[dutchyonabike]

Let’s hope they don’t keep being that slow in developing what the community asks for, because this was waaaaay too late of an update.

I agree, I gave up waiting in 2017. I figured if PCs are good enough for Formula 1 teams, their fine for my small business... my custom PC has actually been very good. I still have Macs for personal use, just not for my business.
[doublepost=1559731592][/doublepost]

256GB of storage for a Pro computer that's meant for working on very large media files, for 5,999. Wow

Does it have room for internal hdd/sdd/m.2 Anyone?
[doublepost=1559731701][/doublepost]

Did you hear the crowd at wwdc gasp at that price?

They didn’t know whether to laugh or cry...$999 must be a typo, you mean $99

 

[neuropsychguy]

Intel's Gold Xeons make great workstations and are much smoother than the W-class. I'm not sure why Cook got suckered into only a single processor board when the case screams out for dual CPUs! Once again, Apple needs to up their game on the electronics side while the design looks near perfect.

Do you have a link showing Ws are inferior to Golds in general use? Anandtech has some discussions and the benefits of Gold don't appear to be very strong (aside from being able to handle multiple processors), at least not in the the video/photo market these Mac Pros are geared towards. I'm not sure how the 6 memory channels in Golds will outdo the 4 in W series in video production. Maybe in some heavy scientific work but this isn't really geared that way.

Apple's cooling and dedicated 200W should go a long way in helping the processors run at max turbo as much as possible.

I'm not an expert in chips though so maybe there are other benefits for Golds that are relevant to a single CPU machine. All I know is Intel compares the Ws to Golds.

 

[dutchyonabike]

And with proprietary threads so you can’t buy casters from anywhere else.

And will only roll on Apple certified floors

 

[jlocker]

With what specs?

Dell's offering for similar specs is around $5,000 USD. The same machine also is configurable for up to 3TB of memory, 112 threads (56 cores), and quad GPUs as well. This config blows past the $100k mark, however.

It's going to be interesting to see what the maxed out Mac Pro will come to. I have a feeling it will be a fair bit more than the $35,000 predicted.

Not with the same Xeon CPU and not with the Graphics card interface with Thunderbolt 3 PCI interfaces.

 

[LordVic]

Apple's new 2018/2019 computer direction has me at least happy about the machines themselves. (with some major caveats)

I think they've done a good job at finally making the machines not ... well, be 2-3 years behind in tech for the most part. the New mac mini is a nice little computer. The new Mac Pro looks amazing and suits the needs peopl

While the tech is good. There's a clear case of "Apple Tax" on these new hardware items that put them roughly 30-45% more expensive per performance than the competition.

for example, a $999 monitor arm? That's ludicrous. Considering, full swivel tilt and telescoping mounts with identical functionality can be found for next to nothing. The base model Mac pro, I can build for 1/2 the price with near equal parts (though I do love the case the Mac Pro comes in, but it sure isn't worth $1000+ on it's own).

$6,000 for 8 core, 256gb storage and 16gb of ram is absolutely astronomical. Even given these are server components, they can all be found and build a system of similar performance for significantly less.

Either way though, I Do love what I see in the new Mac Pro. But at $6000, I don't need it, considering I already have a 8c/16t, 1tb NVME storage, 32gb 3200mhz RAM, Geforce 1070 in a mini-itx build case. Really curious to see what my <$2000 computer performs in raw numbers compared to the base $6000 model mac pro

(I also know this isn't like to like as I'ts not XEON w/ ECC, but I have no use for that specific feature set.)
[doublepost=1559739448][/doublepost]

Graphics card interface with Thunderbolt 3 PCI interfaces.

what does this even mean?

Why would you want to go from PCI-E -> Thunderbolt -> PCI-E graphics card....

I think you might have some confusion over specs

 

[0388631]

Does it have room for internal hdd/sdd/m.2 Anyone?

Yeah, but I can't help but ask why you'd want to not offload files onto attached storage and work off of a TB3 cable or two, with a NAS on the other hand serving as file backups and post-edit storage.
[doublepost=1559739962][/doublepost]

what does this even mean?

Why would you want to go from PCI-E -> Thunderbolt -> PCI-E graphics card....

I think you might have some confusion over specs

External GPU.

 

[LordVic]

Yeah, but I can't help but ask why you'd want to not offload files onto attached storage and work off of a TB3 cable or two, with a NAS on the other hand serving as file backups and post-edit storage.
[doublepost=1559739962][/doublepost]

External GPU.

Given the choice of internal GPU or external Thunderbolt GPU, and you're primary purpose is power, I'd opt for direct PCI-E internal GPU every single time.

if my goal was a scalable workstation that is portable, than an e-GPU makes sense. So i'm missing something as for the Mac Pro, you would almost always opt for internal GPU over external.

 

[0388631]

for example, a $999 monitor arm? That's ludicrous. Considering, full swivel tilt and telescoping mounts with identical functionality can be found for next to nothing. The base model Mac pro, I can build for 1/2 the price with near equal parts (though I do love the case the Mac Pro comes in, but it sure isn't worth $1000+ on it's own).

$6,000 for 8 core, 256gb storage and 16gb of ram is absolutely astronomical. Even given these are server components, they can all be found and build a system of similar performance for significantly less.

Either way though, I Do love what I see in the new Mac Pro. But at $6000, I don't need it, considering I already have a 8c/16t, 1tb NVME storage, 32gb 3200mhz RAM, Geforce 1070 in a mini-itx build case. Really curious to see what my <$2000 computer performs in raw numbers compared to the base $6000 model mac pro

(I also know this isn't like to like as I'ts not XEON w/ ECC, but I have no use for that specific feature set.)

Monitor aside, therein lies the problem. It isn't about what you could personally build. This is purpose made for professionals. It isn't about reliability because a HP Z8 is as or more reliable than an Apple product and has 24/7 support with on site repairs same day. It's the professional grade components. Except that monitor. No way it'll outperform a Sony or Eizo.
[doublepost=1559740534][/doublepost]

Given the choice of internal GPU or external Thunderbolt GPU, and you're primary purpose is power, I'd opt for direct PCI-E internal GPU every single time.

if my goal was a scalable workstation that is portable, than an e-GPU makes sense. So i'm missing something as for the Mac Pro, you would almost always opt for internal GPU over external.

That's what most people would do, unless everything else is populated inside. Unless you need specific Mac only software, I can't see why anyone wouldn't want a Z8 dual 8180 with a RED card which is the same thing Afterburner is at hardware and software level. And seeing as most film studios use RED equipment now. If it's Arri or others who don't offer a card, they use any of the open market ones. They still cost several thousand. Magical stuff though.

 

[ValO]

Anyone saying this is priced too high should go to HP or Dell and price out a similarly-powered workstation. A Precision 7920 with about as similar specs as I could manage in a short time is $6,101.90 with Ubuntu (more if you want Windows) - this isn't even quite comparable to the Mac Pro from a design and performance standpoint.

The point is that this is priced competitively with other workstations. What Apple is missing is a Mac Pro that's not workstation class (something using i7/i9 processors and normal RAM) but this is fairly priced.

Yes, a Mac mini pro.
And there will be one in the next 2 years.

Because apple will make a divide between x86 and arm in the next few years.

MacBook -> arm
MacBook Air-> low spec intel cpu(or merged with the MacBook line up as one model with just arm)
MacBook Pro -> higher end intel cpu

iMac -> arm
iMac pro/5k-> higher end to very high end intel

Mac mini-> arm
Mac mini pro-> higher end to very high end intel(taller chassis and better cooling than the regular mini)

Mac Pro -> high end to extreme high end intel.

That is the path Apple will take , in the next few years. And catalyst will be the fuel for software development for the arm based macs in the next few years. If you can make an iPad app and convert it to a Mac based app with mouse and keyboard control by using catalyst, I really can’ t see a problem making an arm based app /software with mouse and keyboard control.

 

[LordVic]

Monitor aside, therein lies the problem. It isn't about what you could personally build. This is purpose made for professionals. It isn't about reliability because a HP Z8 is as or more reliable than an Apple product and has 24/7 support with on site repairs same day. It's the professional grade components. Except that monitor. No way it'll outperform a Sony or Eizo.
[doublepost=1559740534][/doublepost]
That's what most people would do, unless everything else is populated inside. Unless you need specific Mac only software, I can't see why anyone wouldn't want a Z8 dual 8180 with a RED card which is the same thing Afterburner is at hardware and software level. And seeing as most film studios use RED equipment now. If it's Arri or others who don't offer a card, they use any of the open market ones. They still cost several thousand. Magical stuff though.

Absolutely, those purpose built workstations are extremely powerful. essentially, high performance servers in Desktop chassis. I'm not making any claims about the actual Mac Pro performance compared to other workstations yet, because I haven't seen or benchmarked anything yet. But So far, I'm going to give Apple benefit of the doubt on the performance and reliability (though I do understand the doubts of Apple's reliability in computers lately)

I would love one of these on my desk, but the cost for me isn't worth the parts, especially when my own use won't take advantage of it.

The Mac Pro is promising on paper. But there's still a massive gap in Apple's lineup. They need a consumer grade "tower". the Mini is "close", but they need something between the Mini and the Pro

 

[mrjayviper]

For work. This Mac Pro is at workstation/server level. It is an overkill for many users that used to buy the old Mac Pro at $2400. Apple should have released a smaller version of the new Mac Pro at $3500 for those users.

It's obvious that's a market Apple is not chasing is this iteration. Your can always buy something else that's not from Apple

 

[0388631]

Absolutely, those purpose built workstations are extremely powerful. essentially, high performance servers in Desktop chassis. I'm not making any claims about the actual Mac Pro performance compared to other workstations yet, because I haven't seen or benchmarked anything yet. But So far, I'm going to give Apple benefit of the doubt on the performance and reliability (though I do understand the doubts of Apple's reliability in computers lately)

I would love one of these on my desk, but the cost for me isn't worth the parts, especially when my own use won't take advantage of it.

The Mac Pro is promising on paper. But there's still a massive gap in Apple's lineup. They need a consumer grade "tower". the Mini is "close", but they need something between the Mini and the Pro

I think them using a Fire version of a 580 which is 2 years old was taking the piss with customers. The FPGA card wasn't a gimmick and they improved on what typical ones can do. Much like you I'm not a Mac Pro customer. Never will be. I prefer Windows work flow more than OSX and don't need ECC for what I do in my spare time.

I myself am eyeing up the rumored 16c Ryzen processors or grabbing TR3 if it improves. I'm done with Intel until 2023 when they come out with a new architecture.

 

[LordVic]

It's obvious that's a market Apple is not chasing is this iteration. Your can always buy something else that's not from Apple

There's a big (how big? I don't know) gap in the Apple product lineup for a desktop computer that is somewhere between the Mac mini and the Mac Pro. the mythical "Mac-X".

The Mac pro is fantastic, but even on the low end, is aiming for a high end niche market (i'm not complainging as I think this is the first real pro computer Apple's released since the old cheese grater).

What I'd love to see:

Mac Mini
Mac
Mac Pro.

the "Mac" in the middle could even be the old "trash can" mac pro. But with a slight redesign. Put in standard i5/i7 options. and desktop class GPU instead of the current Xeon/2x GPU" and you'd have an amazing "Mac gaming tower"

but for now, there's an entire segment of computer user who Apple doesn't currently have a product to serve.
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I think them using a Fire version of a 580 which is 2 years old was taking the piss with customers. The FPGA card wasn't a gimmick and they improved on what typical ones can do. Much like you I'm not a Mac Pro customer. Never will be. I prefer Windows work flow more than OSX and don't need ECC for what I do in my spare time.

I myself am eyeing up the rumored 16c Ryzen processors or grabbing TR3 if it improves. I'm done with Intel until 2023 when they come out with a new architecture.

i'm waiting on official benches to decide if I'm going to upgrade my CPU. I've currently got the R7-1700 running an OC of 3.9ghz stable. RAM at 3200MHZ stable. my r15 cinebench results IIRC were approximately 1,700's. Don't have a geek bench score, will have to do run one. But if i'm going to swap in to the latest ryzen, will need some significant upgrade in performance (though, sounds like they may have done it). the PCI-E4.0 would be nice, but my motherboard won't support it (B450)

I think the good thing here with the Mac Pro is it's finally a "tower" again that looks reasonably easy to swap in and out updated components. This has been a serious issue in the last Mac Pro. however, we also still need to see the upgrade paths for other components like Memory, Storage and CPU. i'm hoping they didn't solder any of these components in.

 

[td2243]

And seeing as most film studios use RED equipment now.

Maybe low budget films, but I’d say maybe 1 in 20 I’ve worked on used Red cameras. And the low budget productions can’t afford the big budget editors that could even afford this new Mac.

 

[balloz]

Hackintosh master race.

In all seriousness, this could kill the Mac. With dirt-cheap Intel-busting Zen 2 around the corner, Apple could not have chosen a worse time to try to extract $6k+ from its cultists with their under-powered crap than right now. Imagine Mac professionals trying to justify this crap when Ryzen 3800 + nVidia towers costing less than a THIRD as much are kicking your ass. Embarrassing.

How many overpriced units will Apple have to sell to break even here?

 

[LordVic]

Hackintosh master race.

In all seriousness, this could kill the Mac. With dirt-cheap Intel-busting Zen 2 around the corner, Apple could not have chosen a worse time to try to extract $6k+ from its cultists with their under-powered crap than right now. Imagine Mac professionals trying to justify this crap when Ryzen 3800 + nVidia towers costing less than a THIRD as much are kicking your ass. Embarrassing.

How many overpriced units will Apple have to sell to break even here?

Good lulck getting MacOS running on that hardware.

as an AMD user who has attempted numerous times to get a hackintosh going, it's incredibly painful and so far AMD hackintoshes are just not there.

In Addition, I foresee Apple starting to limit future OS versions to T2 enabled devices only. Which would kill hackintoshes cold. While it might work today, I would be severely hesitant running a hackintosh in a "production" environment.

 

[balloz]

Guess it's time to switch to Windows.

Daily Mac user since 1986, but a $4k tax is laughable. Apple's hardware quality hasn't been good in decades, so it's not even on par with the rest of the industry especially with their **** laptops.

I've said it before and I've said it again: Apple should have split into multiple divisions to deal with consumer, professional, and enterprise. It's a schizophrenic company that can't see the forest from the trees. They almost exclusively made low order goods and since that market is now drying up they're trying to flip back into higher order professional goods after abandoning it for decades. Now they have a piece of hardware with no professional software to run on it. Pathetic.

If they try to re-enter enterprise they're going to run up against the problem that A, they haven't made server hardware since Xserve and B, who the hell uses a server directly on hardware anymore? It's all virtualized now, which Apple never understood and won't until it's too late.

All this said, I will try to run MacOS on KVM. If it works, I'll keep using MacOS. If Apple wants my money, they can offer me a virtual license. Nobody in their right mind is buying their hardware.

 

[ValO]

No you can't...the Xeon W-3223 8-core in the base model Mac Pro was just released today. Try again.

Yes, the base 8-core lists for $749.00...

The display stand is absurd, hardly anyone disagrees with that around here. No one here would actually buy one.

If all you have is ad hominem attacks, go scurry back on over to WCCFTech or HardOCP and peddle your wares over there.

What I read is that this new 8 core Xeon will be more like $1200.

 

[MPW99]

I wouldn't if I were you. The stock started going down hard during that keynote, especially when the Mac Pro price was announced. Investors know it's ridiculously overpriced. I think Apple might've gone too far off the deep end with pricing this time. The base model configured at $5999 is insanely, ridiculously overpriced. I have many friends in the tech world who could easily afford this, as could I, and none of us would touch it for fear of ridicule at this point - that's how crazy it is. Apple thinks they can price anything and have great PR but those days are coming to an end, I'm afraid.

I dont think the Apple share price is guided in any way buy the new Mac Pro pricing or sales stats, a look at Apple's revenue composition will tell you its mostly iphones and services...

 

[Sabelonada]

There's a big (how big? I don't know) gap in the Apple product lineup for a desktop computer that is somewhere between the Mac mini and the Mac Pro. the mythical "Mac-X".

The Mac pro is fantastic, but even on the low end, is aiming for a high end niche market (i'm not complainging as I think this is the first real pro computer Apple's released since the old cheese grater).

What I'd love to see:

Mac Mini
Mac
Mac Pro.

the "Mac" in the middle could even be the old "trash can" mac pro. But with a slight redesign. Put in standard i5/i7 options. and desktop class GPU instead of the current Xeon/2x GPU" and you'd have an amazing "Mac gaming tower"

but for now, there's an entire segment of computer user who Apple doesn't currently have a product to serve.
.

Update for TB3 as well, with 4 ports.

 

[balloz]

First Catalina hackintosh was on KVM:
https://passthroughpo.st/first-successful-catalina-hackintosh-install-was-in-qemu-kvm/

Edit: on AMD no less:
https://twitter.com/FoxletFox/status/1135724779644817409

 

[0388631]

Maybe low budget films, but I’d say maybe 1 in 20 I’ve worked on used Red cameras. And the low budget productions can’t afford the big budget editors that could even afford this new Mac.

Low budget?

https://www.red.com/shot-on-red

Arri Alexa XT: https://shotonwhat.com/cameras/arri-alexa-xt-camera

Arri Arriflex: https://shotonwhat.com/cameras/arri-arriflex-series-cameras

RED: https://shotonwhat.com/cameras/red-digital-cinema-cameras

 

[Zdigital2015]

What I read is that this new 8 core Xeon will be more like $1200.

Here's the breakdown of pricing on the new Xeon W-32xx-Series from Tom's Hardware - https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-cascade-lake-3000-series-xeon-w-cpus,39575.html - the there are two versions of the 8-core, Apple is using the W-3223, which is $750, not the W-3225, which is $1199.

 

[LordVic]

What I read is that this new 8 core Xeon will be more like $1200.

The CPU is a bit of a hard one to price out for comparisons since it's not retail available yet. But if we compare it to the previous offerings in the same range, I expect pricing to be about $900-$1000.

the previous generation comparable product, the Xeon E5-2667 V3 is an 8c/16t CPU at 3.2-3.6ghz and 135w. And it's retail is $900ish currently.

I believe that this new chip is the replacement for that one, so will likely fit into the similar retail position. Though will keep an eye on the chip pricing when its launched.

just saw @Zdigital2015 post that is probably even more accurate than my assumption.


So given $900 for the CPU
Motherboard is also a bit hard since we're talking about server class board. But there's a few that would fit this build at around $600
Throw in any $100 cooler
16GB of DDR4 memory w/ ECC is about $130
NVME Samsung 970 EVO is $100
Radeon RX Vega 64 is $400
pick your own case... I've priced mine at $500... because why not
1600w PSU (EVGA) $330

Total Price: $3,060

So utlimately, the question is and this will be personal to each person. IS Apple's design of their case, MacOS and their service/support worth about 100% of the cost of the rest of the hardware?

 

[daveedjackson]

I really hope the people at Apple are reading this forum. And the backlash on Twitter. It's a great system, but I think they have gone too high end, basically leaving all of the middle ground professionals who actually do need more power. The entry level cost is shocking. And frankly those legs on the system are the one thing I think lets the whole design down. It's clunky, and I've hears many people say Steven Jobs would have never approved such an ugly system.