Re: I agree - but...
I agreed with most everything groovbuster had to say, but have to comment on this:
I would not presume to know your background or how much you know about America, but your stereotypical, leftist comment about capitalism is as wrong as the idiots here who think all Germans are racist Nazis.
Interesting how you are firing back, based on a comment I made that didn't use any stereotypes at all. Just to critizise the capitalism makes me a leftist idiot?? Thank you very much! Then you are just ignorant! As I told before I have a canadian wife and I am regularly in North America because her family lives there... Why you question my competence to have an opinion about it anyway? Neither the US are the only capitalistic country in the world, nor Germany is socialstic... So it seems that I know a lot more about your country than you do about mine...
But there seems to be a tendency (that is my personal experience) that north americans think they are superior and have to explain to the dumb people from the rest of the world how things work.
Not all of them of course, but quite a lot still.
Even you maybe didn't mean it like that, it sounded like: "I would not presume if you are stupid or not, even though I think you are ..." Just to start your reply like that wasn't very respectful. But somehow I doubt that you'll get the point.
The capitalistic system, as practiced by law-abiding people, is not about screwing other people at all.
It's not? I am living in a capitalistic country myself (as you probably know... at least I hope you do) and you don't need to explain the mechanisms of capitalism to me. And I am also having a good life, since I am working in the IT industry, but that doesn't mean I totally ignore that our life-style in the western world is only possible on the back of dozens of poor countries who provide us with the resources we need... You know, there is a world outside of the western world.
Profits are only attainable by providing the marketplace with products and services at prices that marketplace will support. If you can do that and come out ahead of what it cost you to make/provide that product or service, you profit. If you can't, you either stop selling it or find a better way to make it.
So far the theory. Actually I don't feel like having an ideological discussion in this forum.
If your screw over your customer or employee, they will leave - probably telling others about it - and you will loose.
Of course you don't screw your customers, but I think most customers don't care at all, how their item was produced or manufactured, they just want maximum value for minimum prize. Otherwise noone would buy coffee anymore or people would ask if the kids in India knitting their carpet work under acceptable conditions and get a good salary. But people don't, right? If they got what they wanted they dont care anymore. And when there's a lot more workforce on the market than open jobs, people won't go because they are happy being able to provide their families with food and housing. Especially when we are talking about other countries that are not as rich as North America or Western Europe. Open your eyes and tell me again, that I am a leftist ignorant...
If what you did was illegal, you will be sued. (Now if you want to talk about our courts, I'm with you - they can really screw things up sometimes, but, more often than not, they work)
Laws in a country are made by people who live in that country. Why would they change the law in a way that gives them disadvantages regarding to drain out the poor countries, or even the lower class in the own country? It is hard to give away priveliges just by yourself without any pressure, because the human nature is egoistic... How would capitalism work if not? I want to maximise my profit, within the borders other people give me... if they don't have a choice and have to accept the conditions I dictate them... too bad for them, right?
You're statement about capitalism not working for much longer is rather silly too. Why? What will be replacing it, communism? We all see how well that worked in the USSR and is working in China.
I just said that capitalism as we know it won't work for long anymore! You should read more carefully what other people are writing. OK? Fact is, that our economical system has to change radically, if we want to face the challenges of the 21st century. I never said, that communism is an alternative, since it would never work anyway. And just to inform you, the political systems in the USSR and China were/are not communism, even they called themselves that. When I write chocolate on a piece of sh*t, you would believe it right away?
As long as our government sticks to enforcing the laws on the books and stops trying to meddle with law-abiding companies, capitalism will be strong and kicking here for quite a long time. (Notice, I said law-abiding, when companies are found to have done illegal things, like MSFT, the courts SHOULD bring the hammer down.)
And who is defining what is illegal? The laws are always a mirror of the society they were made in. For example: You had slavery in your country before the civil war. The law was allowing it. Does that mean it wasn't a crime, just because the law didn't forbid it? So you see, the law is almost always a very subjective matter. And especially in the case of M$... I don't see any punishemnt so far and it is clear for years now that they broke the law... Justice for money! That how it works in "our" world.
As a side note, in case you are a socialist,
Are you one of those paranoid US citizens who think that every person that is critizising the capitalistic system is a socialist??? *l* That's kinda funny!
I heard a quote a while back that wraps it all up, "Socialistic programs, while attractive, are by their very nature, mandatory. Those who chose not to participate must be coerced. That's why they build walls around socialist countries to keep people in to enjoy the benefits."
So let me tell you as a non-socialist... The capitalism is doing the same. How do you get a chance not to participate in that system? Just tell me! Being a farmer and providing yourself with everything you need? Almost impossible. At first you need money to buy a farm. And any good you need you have to purchase from somewhere else you have to pay with money, so you have to trade. From that moment on you are part of the system again. And what about the country, that is forcing you to participate, because you have to pay taxes and you are forced to follow laws and those laws also make you automatically part of the system?
An example was the Clinton health care plan that actually said if youre child was dieing and you didnt want to take them to the government specified health care facility. If you took them to a doctor and they, outside of the system, provided medical services; both of you would have broken the law and could be fined thousands of dollars. Thats coercion and has no place in a free market.
Maybe because the family health care costs a lot of money....? tax money! The people with money they need to keep wheels spinning, because without them in the end only cases would go to those facilities who are covered by social welfare anyway. But that would mean no cash flow to keep the quality up. A society also needs solidarity at least to a certain point. And that also means that the rich people pay part of the costs for those facilities through their health insurances. To just talk about the free market when it comes down to health of children is a little bit cynical, don't you think? Maybe you are lucky that you raised in a rich and wealthy family, but maybe some day even YOU will be happy, when other people help you without any condition and don't start to talk about the free market instead. Never say never!
groovebuster
