Safari 4 Tops 11 Million Downloads in First Three Days

[nagromme]

Snow Leopard will not be a solution for PowerPC users to fix Safari crashes, so its kind of disturbing that Apple released such a buggy product.

By the way, the vast majority of my crashes on various G4s and G5s do not occur while playing Flash video at all, they are unidentified and in my opinion are Javascript related. Flash crashes are a very small minority of my daily multiple crashes.

Also, I'm unlike most people, I reset Safari often to clear caches and cookies, so if anything, I should be LESS likely to have Safari 4 crash than other PowerPC users. Since I'm using it on multiple PowerPC Macs, its also unlikely my problems are specific to my machines.

It won't help Windows users either. (Does Safari 4 in Windows even have the same problem? I assume Flash, for one, is more stable there.)

I too have seen JavaScript-related crashes as the number two cause of crashes in Safari 4. Not common at all compared to Flash crashes, and if it was JUST the JS crashes I'd say Safari 4 was very solid. But when I do see a crash and it's not Flash, it's usually JavaScript. (To my untrained eye on the log!) Sometimes some kernel thing or other.

The good news about anything NOT related to Flash: Apple can fix it. Crashes WITH Flash? Maybe Apple can fix them. Maybe Adobe has to.

I wish Apple didn't HAVE to fix it--I'd rather there were no problem to begin with. But all software has bugs--it happens--and the crashes are rare enough (and Reopen All Windows reverses them) that I can survive OK for now. Lest's face it, even if Apple still called this version beta (and I do think it's better than THAT) I would still like it enough to use it and not wait for the next version.

But I do believe Safari 4 crashes more than 3, and that's worth people being warned of.

 

[nagromme]

EDIT: Sorry--two posts in a row? I thought it had been longer

I understand your pain, but technology is moving on, and so is Apple with the switch to Intel. You cannot expect any software/hardware manufacturer to support your hardware indefinitely with new releases. the amount of testing involved increases to a not manageable amount.
...

Actually I think Apple WILL support PowerPC users in the matter of these crashes. They seem to happen on both Intel and PPC, so if/when a fix comes, it will be offered to all Safari 4 users. Safari 4 works not only on Leopard PPC, but on TIGER too! That's very GOOD legacy support. Technology does move on, you're right, and eventually support goes ways--but Safari 4 is not an example of this.

Exactly, Its rediculous for Apple to expound the popularity of their browser when they push it to every OSX system automatically, and every Windows system with the Apple updater installed.
...

It's not ridiculous--it's absolutely necessary. You're thinking of this information like it's childish schoolyard bragging. That's how forums operate, but not now smart corporations act It's not about a "game" where bragging isn't "fair." It's necessary for Apple to publicize numbers that show the growth of Safari's user base. Why?

Because DEVELOPERS need to know that making sure about Safari support is becoming more and more important. That's a vital business factor, not a bragging game.

Which is also tied to the iPhone/iPod: they use the same rendering engine. Apple wants Web sites and Web apps to be well-supported on Safari in all its flavors.

 

[tirerim]

And some of them are probably people like me, who downloaded it without checking the system requirements, discovered it required 10.5.7, and haven't looked at it since. (Given the number of reports of issues with 10.5.7, I'm sticking with 10.5.6 until 10.5.8, thanks.) Fortunately, the beta (with Saft) works just fine for me.

 

[mdriftmeyer]

It won't help Windows users either. (Does Safari 4 in Windows even have the same problem? I assume Flash, for one, is more stable there.)

I too have seen JavaScript-related crashes as the number two cause of crashes in Safari 4. Not common at all compared to Flash crashes, and if it was JUST the JS crashes I'd say Safari 4 was very solid. But when I do see a crash and it's not Flash, it's usually JavaScript. (To my untrained eye on the log!) Sometimes some kernel thing or other.

The good news about anything NOT related to Flash: Apple can fix it. Crashes WITH Flash? Maybe Apple can fix them. Maybe Adobe has to.

I wish Apple didn't HAVE to fix it--I'd rather there were no problem to begin with. But all software has bugs--it happens--and the crashes are rare enough (and Reopen All Windows reverses them) that I can survive OK for now. Lest's face it, even if Apple still called this version beta (and I do think it's better than THAT) I would still like it enough to use it and not wait for the next version.

But I do believe Safari 4 crashes more than 3, and that's worth people being warned of.

Better yet, those web sites can hire developers who write Javascript that have zero defects.

 

[fixmymac]

Safari 4 potential hazard. Your help is requested...

Guys. I need some feedback on something worrying i have discovered.

If you are running Safari 4 on Mac OS X 10.4.x, could you all try the following for me and let me know your results.

1. Create a new user on your Mac. Make that user a Managed one.
2. Enable the Safari Parental Controls.
3. Log in to the account you have just created.
4. Try to visit a site that is not in the bookmarks.
5. Instead of typing in Admin credentials, when prompted, simply click Cancel.

What happens?

6. Now, try it again with proper admin credentials entered and click on OK

What happens?

Thanks for your help.

 

[Voidness]

I still won't use it though, since it doesn't have basic features I need, like switching the language of the spell correction. So I'll stick to firefox.

You can switch the language of the spell correction. Just right click on a text field > Spelling and Grammar > Show Spelling and Grammar. You'll get a floating window for spell check, which also has a drop down menu of languages. This also applies to all Cocoa applications.

 

[wlh99]

I was going to jump on the bandwagon but have decided to put it off for awhile. Maybe a long while. It is just that I really don't need to spend money on a wide screen TV. Plus I get more enertainment these days out of the web.

It's a brave new world.


Dave

Off topic, but DTV has little to do with widescreen TV's. It has to do with the over the air (antenna) transmission format. It is changing from NTSC to ATSC. If you have cable or Satallite, there is no bandwagon to jump on to. If you have an Antenna on your roof and didn't buy a new set or converter box, your TV stops working today.

On topic:
How many of the 11 million downloaders don't even know what Safari is or does? We have 50 PC's at work. Most have Safari due to Apples using updater to install it. Apple is using Microsoft tactics to make thier browser look more popular than it really is.

 

[peterdevries]

Guys. I need some feedback on something worrying i have discovered.

If you are running Safari 4 on Mac OS X 10.4.x, could you all try the following for me and let me know your results.

1. Create a new user on your Mac. Make that user a Managed one.
2. Enable the Safari Parental Controls.
3. Log in to the account you have just created.
4. Try to visit a site that is not in the bookmarks.
5. Instead of typing in Admin credentials, when prompted, simply click Cancel.

What happens?

6. Now, try it again with proper admin credentials entered and click on OK

What happens?

Thanks for your help.

It's not very likely that people will try this when you don't explain what it is that is worrying you or what will happen..

In addition, people might have an answer for your problem without having to trying the above process.

 

[fixmymac]

It's not very likely that people will try this when you don't explain what it is that is worrying you..

In addition, people might have an answer for your problem without having to try this.

Hi. Point taken.

However, because of what may happen (if this is, in fact, a bug) i deliberately did not divulge.

I have tested 10 systems and the problem is present on them all of them. Affects both PPC and Intel but does not affect 10.5 at all. I have spent almost all of today trying the most obvious fixes. I repair Macs for a living.

This potential bug is of concern to you if you have kids using Managed accounts on 10.4.x with Safari 4.

I am trying to be responsible here

 

[maestro55]

To be honest, I did the update but I am still using Firefox on this machine. However, it doesn't surprise me that it has gotten a lot of downloads, I am just waiting to see what happens when Google gets Chrome on mac.

 

[slapppy]

Renders nicely

Safari always renders pages so beautifully. Functionality and for add ons Firefox is the best.

Internet Explorer when you are forced to use a site that forces you to use it.

 

[morespce54]

Thats my only grievance really

yes, this and the fact that it took me soooo long to find out where is the "reload" button...

 

[mikeinternet]

I thoroughly enjoy the top sites screen. Have it set as my default now. Love how it checks sites for updates, I didn't realize that until Schiller mentioned it at the keynote.
Almost takes the fun out of checking all my favs. One glance... nothing new... on with my life.

 

[aristotle]

So...what's the big hoopla, in general, about Safari? I own both Windows and Macs and I use either IE or Firefox on Windows and FF 100% on the Macs. I don't have any Mac friends/peers so I don't know what the big deal is about Safari as a whole. FF was released the same time as Safari.

Also, as some have implied on this thread, is Safari bundled with iTunes and/or Mac OS so that if an "update" is done for either iTunes or the OS that the user is forced to get Safari...and hence count as a "download" on this announcement? If so, that would hugely skew the announcement since people are being forced to get it.

-Eric

Nobody is being forced to get it. Firefox on the mac is crap, absolute crap. I prefer Safari in OS X because it is the fastest browser on that platform. Safari is not only faster but it also is the most standards compliant to date.

Why are you such a fanboy of Firefox? I like using Firefox on windows but I don't understand the appeal of firefox on a mac. It is way too slow, unstable and still has a non-native feel to it.

 

[HyperZboy]

I understand your pain, but technology is moving on, and so is Apple with the switch to Intel. You cannot expect any software/hardware manufacturer to support your hardware indefinitely with new releases. the amount of testing involved increases to a not manageable amount.

What Apple could or maybe should do is be more clear as to which hardware can run which software optimally like most windows software does. Alternatively, Apple could for example disable Safari 4 for PPC machines, but I guess that would piss off even more people.

Apple is one of few companies in the world that is ridiculously cash-rich.

Of course, if Apple didn't release Safari 4.0 for PowerPC, I'd be complaining, that's very true.
But the fact of the matter is that Apple did it because it has a financial interest in doing so and to increase the % of Safari users across 4 platforms simultaneously and thus affect marketshare and increase revenue. It's not like they released it for PowerPC out of "kindness." LOL

So, if Apple's going to make that business decision, well, ummm, guess what?

They need to get it right on all 4 platforms!​

I think it's embarrassing that I have to tell people who ask about my Apple Macs that the most buggy program I have on 5 computers is APPLE SAFARI & while surfing the web, especially considering Apple has all the OS hooks to get it right more so than any other software company!

It's just inexcusable in my opinion for a browser to crash 5-10X a day, but I'm still holding out hope for a Safari 4.1 or a Flashplayer update that fixes this.
I'm still undecided whether i'm going to revert to Safari 3 or just use Firefox a little more often.
Dilemma.

 

[morespce54]

I keep moving my cursor to the left of the address bar to click the reload icon, then remembering it's on the right of the address bar now. It's not something you can customize either. So far I've made that mistake 11 million times, but I expect I'll get used to it eventually.

Actually, it's one thing to get rid of a functional and informative UI element (aka as the "progress bar") but it's an other thing to completely switch useful UI from left-to-right (aka as the "reload button")...

 

[Eidorian]

Hey, what happened to your avatar? The previous one always looked so angry. It was kinda cool.. I miss it.

I'll change it back if it was so liked.

I'm still having font rendering weirdness on Safari under Windows. It seems to take its own path from ClearType. I've tweaked it's local font smoothing drop down but it's still no pleasant as it was under Safari 4 Beta.

 

[50548]

I didn't even know Safari 4 was released. You can add a +1 to that count in a moment

It's the best and fastest browser on Earth...should we be surprised? It hasn't crashed a single time on me yet, with flawless compatibility and performance.

MS IS DEAD.

 

[HyperZboy]

Nobody is being forced to get it. Firefox on the mac is crap, absolute crap. I prefer Safari in OS X because it is the fastest browser on that platform. Safari is not only faster but it also is the most standards compliant to date.

Why are you such a fanboy of Firefox? I like using Firefox on windows but I don't understand the appeal of firefox on a mac. It is way too slow, unstable and still has a non-native feel to it.

Sorry, but the Firefox 3.5 Mac beta is significantly more stable than Safari 4 by FAR!​

It is a bit slower, true, however 3.5 is faster than 3.0 & 2.0. Also, Firefox is more compatible with some websites because more websites code FOR Firefox specifically.
"Standards compliant" obviously means a lot to geeks like us, but it is rubbish to the average user. I understand why it's a good thing, but it doesn't change the fact that so many websites are not following the principle.

I can still count on my hands the # of times Firefox 3.5 BETA has crashed.
I've lost track of how many times Safari 4 has crashed, but I figure since the original beta, it has to be up there over 80-90X, or close to 100.

I need a browser that doesn't crash 5X a day.

Firefox 3.5 BETA doesn't.
Safari 4 FINAL does.
It's just that simple.​

 

[Eidorian]

It's the best and fastest browser on Earth...should we be surprised? It hasn't crashed a single time on me yet, with flawless compatibility and performance.

Safari 4 does crash more gracefully when it does. I haven't had it lock my system yet requiring a reboot. Not to mention it'll skip the crash report tool as well.

Snow Leopard looks to finally kill off of the plug-in issue that has plagued Safari and OS X for ages. I wonder how it'll carry over to FireFox.

MS IS DEAD.

I wonder how you'll feel to see the percentage of Windows downloads vs. OS X ones of Safari. Not to mention every other browser that someone could use and those poor Linux users left in the cold. You forgot that some key components were ported over into DLL format as well.

 

[DELLsFan]

i still miss the tabs on the top. that was a feature apple emphasized in the beta. not that it made much of a difference but i def got used to it

Ok, I don't get the "tabs on top vs. bottom" complaint. The tabs are at the top of the page ... kinda like FireFox's tabs. Are you guys talking about the orientation of the tabs at the top of the page, or are you talking about the tabs being at the bottom of the page?

Screenshot lesson from Beta vs. today might help.

I LOVE Safari 4. Installed at work and on two machines at home. Top Sites is just an amazing feature. I love browsing my morning sites right from the Top Sites interface! Well done, Apple!

 

[tirerim]

It's the best and fastest browser on Earth...should we be surprised? It hasn't crashed a single time on me yet, with flawless compatibility and performance.

MS IS DEAD.

Give me a break. It's still a browser -- they all suck, it's just that some of them suck less than others. Saft (for crash protection) and ClickToFlash make it mostly usable, but I certainly wouldn't trust it alone. (Admittedly, I'm still on the beta, since I don't have 10.5.7, but I find it unlikely that the release is that much better.) And a better browser is not going to make anyone switch from Windows to OS X, especially since that same browser is available on Windows.

 

[tirerim]

Sorry, but the Firefox 3.5 Mac beta is significantly more stable than Safari 4 by FAR!​

It is a bit slower, true, however 3.5 is faster than 3.0 & 2.0. Also, Firefox is more compatible with some websites because more websites code FOR Firefox specifically.
"Standards compliant" obviously means a lot to geeks like us, but it is rubbish to the average user. I understand why it's a good thing, but it doesn't change the fact that so many websites are not following the principle.

I can still count on my hands the # of times Firefox 3.5 BETA has crashed.
I've lost track of how many times Safari 4 has crashed, but I figure since the original beta, it has to be up there over 80-90X, or close to 100.

I need a browser that doesn't crash 5X a day.

Firefox 3.5 BETA doesn't.
Safari 4 FINAL does.
It's just that simple.​

I can count to 1023 on my hands, so I'm not sure what you're implying.

I find that Safari 4 beta crashes about as often as Firefox 3 (which is not very frequently). I have crash protection for both of them at this point, so fortunately it isn't a huge deal for either, though the time spent reloading all of my tabs is annoying.

How does Firefox 3.5 deal with large numbers of tabs (50-100)? I'm still waiting for a browser that doesn't waste CPU cycles on tabs that aren't doing anything, though Safari 4 is better about this than Safari 3, I think.

 

[synth3tik]

I will say the only time I would dl Safari would be by accident. That's a lot of accidents.

 

[tirerim]

Ok, I don't get the "tabs on top vs. bottom" complaint. The tabs are at the top of the page ... kinda like FireFox's tabs. Are you guys talking about the orientation of the tabs at the top of the page, or are you talking about the tabs being at the bottom of the page?

Screenshot lesson from Beta vs. today might help.

I LOVE Safari 4. Installed at work and on two machines at home. Top Sites is just an amazing feature. I love browsing my morning sites right from the Top Sites interface! Well done, Apple!

I'm too lazy to take a screenshot, but in the beta the tabs are actually in the title bar of the window, next to the close/minimize/maximize buttons, and above the URL bar and other controls. I'm assuming from comments that in the release they're back below the bookmark bar, just above the actual page, where they used to be.

I think that's probably better -- the problem with having them in the title bar is that there's no to see the full title of a page with a long title.