Safari GM?

[Sonofhaig]

Re: Re: Off the subject.......

Originally posted by Bengt77
The capital M in 'My opinion' is a sign of respect towards yourself, or what?!

🙄

In a word? Yes.
Also, It wasn't my intention to upset anyone.
I was just stating an "opinion" about how the word "God" "G-D" "god
" was referrenced. Lets move on okay?

This is still a "Forum", yes? People have different opinions...

 

[iSmell]

OS integration...

I'm a little confused about this issue, also. I don't use windows much (I'm blessed, I know) but IE doesn't seem that integrated to me. You still have to open explorer to browse the web and you can still run netscape or whatever else.
Also, isn't Safari already kind of integrated because other applications (iTMS) seem to use its rendering engine? Or does the new version of iTunes just have all the rendering code included?

I hope Apple doesn't do anything too microsoftian. Remember the rumor that they were going to integrate some sort of one-click purchasing into the OS? I think that would be a bad move.

Sounds like we'll get a lot of answers at WWDC though...











waitingmonkey

 

[RHutch]

Combining subjects...

Originally posted by Kid Red
Not everyone respects something that someone else believes in. He's your god not mine.

It seems that people are already losing interest in the discussion on Safari, as this has turned into as much a discussion of God/god.

Maybe there's a way to combine the two discussions:

Which browser do you think God/god would use?

I say he/she/(gender neutral term) already has Safari 1.0 running on a Dual PPC970 @ 2.5 GHz. 😀

 

[nuckinfutz]

Integration has it's benefits

http://www.guitarport.com/updates.html

MACINTOSH

At this time, there is no version of GuitarPort for the Macintosh. In addition, GuitarPort will not run on Virtual PC because of the nature of the cutting edge technology utilized in GuitarPort.

Of course we know that the Mac is the computer of choice for many musicians. It has never been (and still is not) our intention to make GuitarPort a Windows-only application. We are still architecting the GuitarPort system in a cross-platform manner so that when Mac development becomes possible, we can pursue it at full speed.

There are, however, a few barriers in the Mac OS that we will have to overcome before we can develop GuitarPort for the Macintosh:

- Apple no longer supports software development for OS9, so our only option is to develop an OSX app.

- GuitarPort requires both real-time audio over USB and an embedded browser. Unfortunately, issues that Apple is aware of make both of these impossible for us to accomplish in OSX.

We are working directly with Apple in an attempt to resolve these issues, but we simply can't promise any kind of timeline. Whenever the situation changes, we will definitely publicize this on this page and the Line 6 website.

 

[Kid Red]

Re: Combining subjects...

Originally posted by RHutch
It seems that people are already losing interest in the discussion on Safari, as this has turned into as much a discussion of God/god.

Maybe there's a way to combine the two discussions:

Which browser do you think God/god would use?

I say he/she/(gender neutral term) already has Safari 1.0 running on a Dual PPC970 @ 2.5 GHz. 😀

Thats the bad thing about reading a thread 2 pages deep from the beginning. I see a post that I must reply to and it ends up hijacking the thread. I didn't know at the time the a few others voiced a similar response.

Since there is no god, it's a trick question. If there was one or more, he/she/they would use Safari.

 

[mustang_dvs]

MIME Settings and Cache Use

Two things annoy me about Safari.

1. There is no function by which the user can manage MIME settings -- so right now, I have a Quicktime plug-in that will not play embedded MPEG video (and yes, the quicktime pref pane is set to play it). Safari results in a MIME error.

2. The user has no control over the size or location of the cache and when you have downloaded a large image in the browser, choosing to Save it to disk means Safari reconnects to the server and tries to access it directly. This means slow downloads and an inability to retrieve images that lie behind scripts, methods of authentication and the like that prohibit direct browsing access to files. Most every other browser on the planet pulls page and image downloads from the disk cache.

Oh, and there is a nasty memory leak -- Safari Beta 2 v74 bloats from ~32MB to 120+MB of RAM in just a couple of hours.

 

[Sonofhaig]

Talk about..

..blowing things out of proportion. Sheesh.

I think the Gold Master Safari will blow many browsers out of the water.
I'm sure everyone will agree with that statement.

 

[coolfactor]

Re: OS integration...

Originally posted by iSmell
I'm a little confused about this issue, also. I don't use windows much (I'm blessed, I know) but IE doesn't seem that integrated to me. You still have to open explorer to browse the web and you can still run netscape or whatever else.
Also, isn't Safari already kind of integrated because other applications (iTMS) seem to use its rendering engine? Or does the new version of iTunes just have all the rendering code included?

iTunes is a self-contained application and doesn't require that Safari is installed. I don't believe Apple would create any application that is dependent on another. Without QuickTime 6.2 installed, for example, iTMS still operates, but some features won't be available. This is different than integration.

I hope Apple doesn't do anything too microsoftian. Remember the rumor that they were going to integrate some sort of one-click purchasing into the OS? I think that would be a bad move.

This wouldn't necessarily be a bad move if executed properly. Apple is currently using Amazon's One-Click technology in the online Apple Store and in the iTMS. When two companies work together like this, it's impossible to call it a monolopy.

 

[moronhater]

Re: Off the subject.......

Originally posted by Sonofhaig
The "G" in GOD should be capitalized. (It's a sign of respect)
Otherwise, (My opinion) don't use the word....

Give me a break. There is obviously no god anyways, and u can't make me have even the slightest bit of respect for u or ur crazy beliefs. Anyways nobody asked for your opinion and I'll spell anyway I want... jesus🙄

 

[tychay]

some comments

There are a number of reasons why Safari could be failing with a session timeout while other browsers are not that are not bugs in Safari. I would guess most likely there is a problem with your cookie settings or popup blocking.

For instance, if the session is maintained on a remote site via a web bug (single pixel gif) referencing between two servers (an auth and login server) and Safari is blocking cookies of that nature (normally a good thing because web bugs are used by advertisers to track user browsing habits and show GET queries to a remote site) then the login will fail to stick. If the session is created by redirecting to a page which then redirects out (a "waiting for" page which is very common) and that redirect is set with a window.open call instead of a window.location.replace() as is proper, then Safari's popup blocking will break this (again, this is a good thing because this is how advertisers do popover and popunder ads). In the latter case, it would have been nice if it made some popping sound when it blocked a popup (a la Netscape/Mozilla).

As for advantages in OS/Browser integration: look to Windows 98+. For the user, there will be no advantage really, but for the developer, you'd get consistent rendering between applications (like the previously mentioned Help). Also applications such as CSS and HTML editors will be able to incorporate Safari's rendering for free. For instance, the preview pane in GoLive might no longer need an internal rendering tool, but instead just use Safari to do the rendering. Also, you can use it to automate browsing tasks (this really isn't a big deal because MacOS already has cURL and AppleScript, but in Windows, the Win Browser component is very useful). Other places: Apple Mail (or third party mail), RSS Newsreaders, personal organizers and journals, etc. These and more could now handle hyperlinking and rendering in a consistant manner.

Also consider XML and stylesheets (XSLT and CSS). Remembering that XML is the native file format for Mac OS X preferences, KeyNote, the next Final Cut Pro and ostensbly most new Apple Software and updates. Safari has an XML DOM component and something that handles stylesheets. These components can be accessed to reduce the codebase and bugs when creating/managing/rendering files.

Windows also uses the browser component to render the navigation in their desktop. I doubt Apple will go so far since (IMHO) browsing the file system on the mac is much easier and this opens it up for customization (and thus breaks a lot of usability).

Apple doesn't need to put it in the core OS. Already a lot of these features are available right now in the Safari you have installed. This is because of the way the OS catalogs internal frameworks just by the presence of the application in your "Applications" folder (and the reason why some people obsessively "update prebindings"). That's so that you don't need messy installers/deinstallers like Windows. The issue with that right now is that those libraries in Safari beta are undocumented and also subject to change. David Hyatt specifically recommends against using them.

Take care,

terry

 

[Freg3000]

Isn't there already some integration with the Safari and the iTMS included in iTunes 4? Anyway, I don't really NEED an integrated browser, but it would be nice to see it as an option.

 

[Sublime]

Re: Re: Off the subject.......

Originally posted by moronhater
Give me a break. There is obviously no god anyways, and u can't make me have even the slightest bit of respect for u or ur crazy beliefs. Anyways nobody asked for your opinion and I'll spell anyway I want... jesus🙄

Welcome to Macrumors, Moron!

😀

 

[Jeff Harrell]

Re: Different versions

Originally posted by RHutch
Anyone have a clue what might be different about the versions that would keep the Panther version from running on Jaguar?

Oh, sure, any number of things, really. Changes of the non-backwards-compatible variety in any of the major frameworks, such as Carbon.framework or Cocoa.framework. The same thing happened when we went from 10.0 to 10.1 and 10.1 to 10.2.

 

[MacKid]

Re: OS integration...

Originally posted by iSmell
I hope Apple doesn't do anything too microsoftian. Remember the rumor that they were going to integrate some sort of one-click purchasing into the OS? I think that would be a bad move.

Sounds like we'll get a lot of answers at WWDC though...





waitingmonkey

"One-Click Purchasing" in the OS? I'm not trying to debate you, I just don't understand what you mean. . .could you explain a bit? Sounds strange yet interesting. . .

 

[wwworry]

a contextual "back" menu item would be nice. Also the way the bookmarks organizing is set up seems hard to fathom for some. A built in way to import bookmarks from netscape would be good (I know about the non-built in way).

these are just minor quibbles

 

[MacKid]

Okay. . .

Two things.

One, people keep saying that iTunes requires Safari's engine to function in the iTunes music store. If I'm correct (and common sense serves me), iTunes has the same code, it doesn't run off of Safari. First of all, Apple would not be that stupid, because what if 5% of the Mac users didn't download Safari? Where would the iTMS be?

Two, I'm not trying to be a b****, but can someone explain to me how a browser can be "integrated into an operating system"? I'm sure you're imagining me saying all this with a loud, cranky, voice, but I'm not trying to point out faults or call people stupid, just clearing a misconception and wondering how a browser can be integrated. Just a simple question 🙂 .

 

[Flowbee]

Re: Re: Re: Off the subject.......

Originally posted by Sonofhaig

Also, It wasn't my intention to upset anyone.
I was just stating an "opinion" about how the word "God" "G-D" "god
" was referrenced. Lets move on okay?

This is still a "Forum", yes? People have different opinions...

It's so easy to create a new thread if you want to discuss religion, politics, sexual orientation, or any other topic that's sure to derail a perfectly good Mac thread. Please consider it next time. Thanks.

PS - I, for one, do not look forward to further integration of Safari into my OS. I love the fact that Apple's apps are becoming so well integrated with eachother, but if I choose not to use them, I don't want them always butting in and reminding me that they're there (a la MS).

 

[areyouwishing]

Re: Okay. . .

Originally posted by MacKid

Two, I'm not trying to be a b****, but can someone explain to me how a browser can be "integrated into an operating system"? I'm sure you're imagining me saying all this with a loud, cranky, voice, but I'm not trying to point out faults or call people stupid, just clearing a misconception and wondering how a browser can be integrated. Just a simple question 🙂 .

If you have access to a PC, open up "my computer" and in the address bar, type "www.macrumors.com" THAT my friend is browser integration, you went directly from your computer to the internet without having to open the browser.

If you really mean "how can" i am sure someone with a little more software engineering skills could answer that one, but in a nutshell, the backbone of the os is built out of the browser.

 

[macquariumguy]

I'd be happy if I could just make the spell check preference stick.

 

[Dephex Twin]

Re: Re: Re: Off the subject.......

Originally posted by Sonofhaig
In a word? Yes.
Also, It wasn't my intention to upset anyone.
I was just stating an "opinion" about how the word "God" "G-D" "god
" was referrenced. Lets move on okay?

This is still a "Forum", yes? People have different opinions...

Well, if you're going down that road, you should know that it is generally considered poor Netiquette to post offtopic comments into a forum-- particularly one which takes a decidedly controversial religious stance.

 

[macquariumguy]

On Browser/OS integration

Isn't Safari built around something called "Webcore"? I could see Webcore being part of the OS. Then, if you use mail.app, Webcore renders your html mails. If you use iTunes, it does the Music Store stuff.

A common codebase for html rendering could make application development easier. This could be why some future version of Safari (or iTunes or mail.app) could require some future version of OS X to run.

Windows has been like this since Win98. Outlook, Windows Explorer, the Help system, and Internet Explorer are all built on the same chunk of code. This by itself isn't evil. So long as Apple doesn't leverage this integration to cripple competition, it would be a very good thing.

 

[Aeolius]

According to Volano, I get "font conflict errors" when attempting to use their Java chat room interface. IE loads the room just fine. Safari needs to learn how to either handle or ignore these errors, before I can use it 100% of the time.

 

[AppleMatt]

Originally posted by wwworry
a contextual "back" menu item would be nice.

I'm not sure if this is what you mean, but click and hold on the back button and a list comes up?

Originally posted by iSmell
I'm a little confused about this issue, also. I don't use windows much (I'm blessed, I know) but IE doesn't seem that integrated to me. You still have to open explorer to browse the web and you can still run netscape or whatever else.

IE is (now) completely integrated into Windows, what you see in Windows explorer is actually *.htt pages, which are rendered by IE. Those pages contain commands that IE executes via JScript (Microsofts version of Javascript)

If you type a web address into the explorer bar, it will change into the browser and navigate the web, simarily, all the buttons in explorer are the same controls as used by IE.

This was done because M$ were taken to court for forcing IE onto users, monopolising the market, so they made it an integral part of the OS basically to screw the legal system.

GUYS PLEASE STOP TALKING ABOUT THE God/god/GOD THING. THIS HAS GONE TOO FAR, AND I'M SURPRISED ARN HASN'T KILLED THOSE POSTS OR EVEN THE WHOLE THREAD..

AppleMatt

 

[Deestar]

Re: Safari GM?

ThinkSecret also describes the most recent seed - v78, and reports Panther will gain some Safari integration.

I assume there just talking about webcore being integrated into the system.

 

[AppleMatt]

wow in the time it took me to type the above post about 5 more posts appeared, this thread is alive!

AppleMatt