I think your confused. Have you forgotten that it took apple years to get on board with NFC. Google wallet was around long before apple pay.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Samsung Acquires Apple Pay Rival LoopPay
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I think your confused. Have you forgotten that it took apple years to get on board with NFC. Google wallet was around long before apple pay.
look at the whole first page of the thread and the "COPYCATS!" comments.
There's a lot of forgetful confused people.
people who conveniently forget that Google and Samsung both had NFC based payment capabilities for a few years now in some markets.
Apple is late to the NFC / Payment party.
Last edited:
Exactly -- Loop Pay clones the magnetic strip. So if somebody steals your phone the data for the magnetic strip of your actual credit card is stored on the device.
With Apple Pay, all that is stored on the device are essentially identifying keys that map to your actual credit card on a server somewhere. To invalidate those identifying keys you simply delete them from the server.
This solution affords you none of the privacy offered by Apple Pay and would likely still require a signature or a PIN number.
What's more, I don't think merchants are going to get the "card present" rate from Visa or MasterCard with an app/device that clones the magnetic strip.
I think it means it will wipe out your real cards once you enter them in, that's what makes it secure.
Wonder if CVS and gang will ban Samsung now too?So the merchant still gets to store YOUR Credit Card Number on their terminals? Samsung still doesn't get it...
Samsung still doesn't get it...Maybe. If Samsung takes the ideas from LoopPay and manages to include tokenization then that would be significant. But that will be hard, if I understand correctly, because these transactions look like swipe transactions. And tokenization doesn't work for those (deliberately, because to allow them would allow card-cloning).
Tokenization is a big deal. Google Wallet doesn't have it and I don't see how Samsung can get it into LoopPay without doing NFC. But, we'll see. The next six months in the payments business will be *very* interesting.
Exactly right, Only America still uses the outmoded magnetic strip, the rest of the world moved to chip and pin years ago so hardly a technological triumph for Samsung, it's a bit like acquiring the world best fax machine!
I believe the card info is stored on the iPhone but is encrypted and inaccessible. It generates tokens to NFC terminals to verify with banks and so no cc info is passed from phone to NFC terminal. But definitely more secure.
As a LoopPay case owner for my iPhone 6 I figured I'd have both ApplePay and non-ApplePay locations covered.
Unfortunately (for me AND for LoopPay), I find even fewer places that ACTUALLY work with LoopPay than ACTUALLY work with ApplePay. Theoretically, LoopPay SHOULD work wherever magnetic stripes are used. Reality is that it fails more often than not and you still can't give the device to restaurants, drive throughs, cashiers, etc. and get them to push the button on the device. Too many people dis-trust credit card info from a non-credit card device (other than an iPhone - hence the publicity.)
The added security of ApplePay and tokenization is key to the future. Give LoopPay your CC data and they still have it to lose (already hacked once) ANDY the merchant still has it to lose (happened MULTIPLE times).
Unfortunately (for me AND for LoopPay), I find even fewer places that ACTUALLY work with LoopPay than ACTUALLY work with ApplePay. Theoretically, LoopPay SHOULD work wherever magnetic stripes are used. Reality is that it fails more often than not and you still can't give the device to restaurants, drive throughs, cashiers, etc. and get them to push the button on the device. Too many people dis-trust credit card info from a non-credit card device (other than an iPhone - hence the publicity.)
The added security of ApplePay and tokenization is key to the future. Give LoopPay your CC data and they still have it to lose (already hacked once) ANDY the merchant still has it to lose (happened MULTIPLE times).
"This acquisition accelerates our vision to...lead innovation in the world of mobile commerce."
Too late.
Too late.
That's not how it works.
The liability shift is to the party that is the security "bottleneck." If a merchant *has* a chip/pin or NFC reader, then they don't have to worry about mag stripe card liability. It's the merchants that *don't* have that capability that get the liability shift.
Presumably, once a bank issues a chip card to a customer, that customer's account is "tagged" such that if a merchant *has* a chip reader and the customer attempts to use a mag swipe, that will be denied.
I've been using Looppay for about a year now. It works pretty much everywhere for me, but the question I had been wondering is how they'd adapt when card machines finally got upgraded. I guess now that part is for Samsung to figure out. You'd certainly hope they do if they're going to have this tech in the new Galaxy phone or users might be in for a big surprise late this year.
Yeah but ...
There are two similarities between Apple Pay and Google Wallet
1. they handle payments
2. they use NFC
Beyond that, everything is different. And most especially the security and tracking. Google knows your account info and purchases. Apple knows neither.
True but still samsung didn't copy anything. The whole idea of secure tokens has been talked about long before apple pay.
So the merchant still gets to store YOUR Credit Card Number on their terminals?
Certianly from a customer/consumer perspective this is vastly inferior to Apple pay, inherently less secure. But a retailer might like it, as it provides more information about the customer. And of course, hackers and thieves would find it better too.
My initial reaction was the same as many here - Samsung/LoopPay doesn't address the security features of ApplePay.
But, if you consider the possibility that a back-end system similar to ApplePay is NOT hardware dependent on NFC, almost all of ApplePay could be implemented through LoopPay with a hardware vendor the size of Samsung behind it.
Samsung may be large enough to get banks to sign on to some sort of device-specific account number similar to what ApplePay does - so the REAL account number of your physical card wouldn't be stored in the phone.
The advantage of this would be that you COULD use it at nearly any credit terminal out in the US market today... and CurrentC/NFC hating retailers couldn't prevent it from being processed.
Basically, LoopPay as a small startup didn't have the ability to get banks to sign on, but now with Samsung, they may be able to get the banks on board and can integrate the hardware directly into the handset.
ApplePay will continue to be more secure, but a possible LoopPay with device-specific account numbers would be FAR more secure than current magstripe cards.
The downside though, is that LoopPay's advantage in number of acceptance locations will diminish over time.
It will be interesting to watch how this develops.
But, if you consider the possibility that a back-end system similar to ApplePay is NOT hardware dependent on NFC, almost all of ApplePay could be implemented through LoopPay with a hardware vendor the size of Samsung behind it.
Samsung may be large enough to get banks to sign on to some sort of device-specific account number similar to what ApplePay does - so the REAL account number of your physical card wouldn't be stored in the phone.
The advantage of this would be that you COULD use it at nearly any credit terminal out in the US market today... and CurrentC/NFC hating retailers couldn't prevent it from being processed.
Basically, LoopPay as a small startup didn't have the ability to get banks to sign on, but now with Samsung, they may be able to get the banks on board and can integrate the hardware directly into the handset.
ApplePay will continue to be more secure, but a possible LoopPay with device-specific account numbers would be FAR more secure than current magstripe cards.
The downside though, is that LoopPay's advantage in number of acceptance locations will diminish over time.
It will be interesting to watch how this develops.
OK... I have never truly bashed Samsung, but this is just a HORRIBLE business decision.
Just like someone else said earlier, this is like buying a fax machine company because you think faxing is the future of communication!
This is yesterdays technology. Magnetic stripes and swipes will be a thing of the past in the next decade.
WAKE UP SAMSUNG.
Just like someone else said earlier, this is like buying a fax machine company because you think faxing is the future of communication!
This is yesterdays technology. Magnetic stripes and swipes will be a thing of the past in the next decade.
WAKE UP SAMSUNG.
Yes they will get card-present rates. The key to LoopPay is just that it STRONGLY transmits the same magnetic stripe info that your credit card feeds through the swiper. The reader knows no difference.
The downside is that the actually mag stripe info is now stored with LoopPay AND on your phone. No tokenization.
Pardon my ignorance, but how does this "magnetic field" technology work with a non-NFC POS terminal?
The article says you can just wave your phone (which is in a special LoopPay case) near the terminal and your card will be registered by over 90% of terminals in use today. Really? I didn't know something like that was possible with the 10+ year old POS terminals out there.
And what's keeping someone from hanging out near the register with a skimmer and intercepting the magstripe data that's transmitted within the magnetic field?
The article says you can just wave your phone (which is in a special LoopPay case) near the terminal and your card will be registered by over 90% of terminals in use today. Really? I didn't know something like that was possible with the 10+ year old POS terminals out there.
And what's keeping someone from hanging out near the register with a skimmer and intercepting the magstripe data that's transmitted within the magnetic field?
The original card info (i.e. the number stamped on the card) is NOT stored in the iPhone. The "card number" used by the iPhone is a "token" that looks exactly like a card number, but is guaranteed to not be the number of a real card.
So, for example, if you sigh up a Visa card for Apple Pay, your iPhone gets a Device Access Number (DAN) that looks exactly like a standard Visa card number. But Visa knows that it's issued to a device (your iPhone) and not to a card. So if that number is put on a card then Visa will reject it as invalid (that is, no "cloning" is possible).
During the Apple Pay transaction, the number IS passed to the NFC terminal (the DAN, that is, not your actual credit card number, because the iPhone does NOT have that). Visa recognizes this DAN and processes the transaction (it has the mapping of DAN to real card numbers, and sends the real card number to your bank).
As I understand it, your iPhone does not have your actual credit card info at all, encrypted or otherwise.
So the merchant still gets to store YOUR Credit Card Number on their terminals?
That's would be Google Pay.