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Agreed. Most laptop screens cannot be seen unless you're right in front of them. Macs have had wide viewing angles for years.

The Airs have terrible viewing angles. The regular macbook pros aren't bad in that regard, but they still have the gamma shift. The rMBP machines have wider viewing angles due to using IPS displays. PC notebooks with IPS displays also tend to have wider viewing angles. The thing is if you mostly use Macs, you are unlikely to be aware of the complete spectrum of Windows machines.

Yes, and when Nikon took it off of the customized D800 many shooters were like . . . . meh because MF had it for years, and in some cases brave photogs or those with enough cash had the AA and LP filters removed.

Some need to remember that tech is tech. Once out in limited numbers, you can expect it to be ubiquitous in a matter of months. I think it was the first Mac Pro that had a custom Intel chip made just for the MP. Apple bragged about it, but 3 months (or so) later it was in every Intel workstation and server you could find.

Bleh I thought it was cool that they did that. I would have probably bought one if I did much with a dslr these days. I use them for shooting textures.
 
Well the windows users have been asking for a high resolution screen for a while now so I think that there is a serious demand.

Actually Windows laptops in the business segment have had much higher res screens available for a long time, including 1600x1200 and 1920x1200 options in the 13" size. Whilst Apple is still selling 13" 1280x800 Macbook "Pros".
 
And probably with less errors that current rMBP panels...(death pixels, IR...)

P.S.: rMBP owner, which right now is in the Apple Support for checking a cluster of death pixels in the middle of the screen...
 
Actually Windows laptops in the business segment have had much higher res screens available for a long time, including 1600x1200 and 1920x1200 options in the 13" size. Whilst Apple is still selling 13" 1280x800 Macbook "Pros".

But he's right in the sense that for some strange reason that I never really understood most PC notebook displays stalled at WXGA or slightly above since more than a decade. My (personal) observation was that the panels were even better in the early 2000's then they were until recently.

Apple has really pushed the limit forward here and I'm very happy about this move, as it'll force the others to follow soon.
 
I agree, but tech does need to be far reaching before we can claim it's really made an impact. Putting the price so high it can't reach the masses won't benefit anyone but those that can afford it.

Remember, other corporations don't need to buy pixel dense screens. The ones that have always been making screens are the ones peddling them to Apple in the first place.

Good points, and I fully agree that tech having limited availability is not ideal. I am aware Apple doesn't make the displays, it is why I mentioned companies buying or using (meaning their own) high pixel density screens.
 
Seems to me like there's less and less technology "geeks" that appreciate all this for what it is - new options available for consumers.
 
The Airs have terrible viewing angles. The regular macbook pros aren't bad in that regard, but they still have the gamma shift. The rMBP machines have wider viewing angles due to using IPS displays. PC notebooks with IPS displays also tend to have wider viewing angles. The thing is if you mostly use Macs, you are unlikely to be aware of the complete spectrum of Windows machines.

Very true, and it's why I stopped being a jerk by chewing folks out that I never realized were just unaware of certain tech trends and ideas.

I used to be the uber Apple fan . . . until that fateful day that my PowerMac couldn't do something or couldn't use a periph, or couldn't get an upgrade.

Bleh I thought it was cool that they did that. I would have probably bought one if I did much with a dslr these days. I use them for shooting textures.

True, and I won't be worried either. I'm bred from photojournalism, and we've never been too picky about the ultra fine details of our images. Most of them end up on glorified toilet paper, or pressed down for the web.

Another reason I love the Retina, but I'd still prefer a 17" MBP. A Retina 17" MBP . . . . . that may just tickle me pink.

Good points, and I fully agree that tech having limited availability is not ideal. I am aware Apple doesn't make the displays, it is why I mentioned companies buying or using (meaning their own) high pixel density screens.

It's not, but then we (me included) tech aficionados have to remember that technology isn't always necessary. Retina and HiDPI panels are wonderful, but a college student or inner city public school isn't pressed.

Oh okay. Yes, indeed.
 
Also, there's more to display quality than pixel density. It seems to be the new megapixel war in the mobile device world.
Biggest quality issue for me is matteness. No manufacturers tell any numbers on how glossy or matte their display is.
Still they are selling laptops, which are meant to be used somewhere else than where you could control the light surrounding you.
Most folks are better off with a screen that fits the content without the need to letterbox, pillarbox or scale things up or down.
Fits what content? Do you think most popular use for laptops today is watching 16:9 television footage?
Look up the IBM T221 ,3840x2400 and that was over a decade ago. It wasn't exactly cheap though. IBM never made a lot of cheap junk tho, and in IBMs traditional motto of " we hate poor people ", it was 8,700 dollars ;)
Those were made from most expensive parts available and called "mobile CAD-stations". Dell and HP had 15" fullHD screens in their laptops for half of that price.
At the same time (2005) I had underpowered G4powerbook that had 1280 x 854 resolution. Now some uninformed here are shouting that Apple invented those HiDPI screens, when Apple adopted them only after they weren't any more expensive than good quality regular ones.
A Retina 17" would be $4000 I am willing to pay for . . . . . over time.
Me too, but only if it's MATTE.
While I agree that it is ridiculous that most computer display are lagging while tablets and phones are getting incredible displays (that few besides Apple really get software to take advantage of), there is a physical point at which most people can't discernate 2 pixels further from a certain distance...

Exemple, for a human being with a great visual acuity of one minute of arc (most of us don't) the distance at which they start being able to discern pixels is (in cm)...

Samsung Galaxy IV (best PPI at 440.58 in a phone) : 19.82cm (That's VERY close to your EYE even for a phone)
Samsung 13.3" display mentioned in the article (276.05 PPI) : 31.63cm
ChromeBook Pixel (239.15 PPI) : 36.51cm

Apples devices :
iPhone 5 (326.05 PPI) : 26.78cm
ret iPad (263.92 PPI) : 33.09cm
ret MBPro 15" (220.53 PPI) : 39.59cm
iMac 27" (108.79 PPI) : 80.27cm

If you look at all these cases you'll realise those devices tend to be further away when you use them, and that's not even talking about the fact that people tend to have crappier eyesight (sometimes due to the fact that a lot of us sit in front of a crappy computer screen all day).
You are cutting a few corners too much here. Sadly, so are so many others with these numbers.
First, 20/20 vision (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20/20)
(resolving power 1 arc minute) is average (nominal), there are lots of people that can resolve 4 times more. Of course there are also blind people and everything between. So most of us do have 20/20 vision, at least when we are young.

Secondly, we are living in analog world. If you have 20/20 vision and the pixel size is suddenly only 0.99 arc minute, that doesn't mean you cant separate the pixels any more. It also depends on contrast and color. Google MTF.

Thirdly we get to the good old Kell factor.

In cocnlusion you need double resolution from 1 arc minute per pixel to show images that have smaller details than 1 arc minute, for person with 20/20 vision, to not to notice that smallest details are not finite.

Lastly, another thing, that people usually don't think. Just like when you hand a photo to people, they like to inspect some parts of it closer and others not so close. Same thing will come to moving images and 3D images. People will like to have some excessive resolution to se something closer when they want. Same way than when you pick up some item to examine.
 
The Airs have terrible viewing angles. The regular macbook pros aren't bad in that regard, but they still have the gamma shift. The rMBP machines have wider viewing angles due to using IPS displays. PC notebooks with IPS displays also tend to have wider viewing angles. The thing is if you mostly use Macs, you are unlikely to be aware of the complete spectrum of Windows machines.QUOTE]

That's true enough. My "evidence" is purely anecdotal. I have my own computer and I, of course, know it well. My last roommate's 2 PC laptops had crappy screens - you couldn't have 2 people look at the screen at once, the viewing angle was so bad (3 and 4 years ago). My step-son's brand new PC laptop is the same. The macs owned by me, my mother and my best friend are all excellent and offer nice, wide viewing. I have not spent any time on an MBA. I've just seen them around and noticed that I could see the screen from the side, in passing; but don't remember how good/bad it was.
 
That's true enough. My "evidence" is purely anecdotal. I have my own computer and I, of course, know it well. My last roommate's 2 PC laptops had crappy screens - you couldn't have 2 people look at the screen at once, the viewing angle was so bad (3 and 4 years ago). My step-son's brand new PC laptop is the same. The macs owned by me, my mother and my best friend are all excellent and offer nice, wide viewing. I have not spent any time on an MBA. I've just seen them around and noticed that I could see the screen from the side, in passing; but don't remember how good/bad it was.

The Airs are usable. It's just there's more of a shift if you move your head side to side. With Macs you have very few notebook models. Aside from corner cases like refurbished or student 11" mba purchases they all start north of $1000. PCs cast a much wider net, and sometimes displays aren't prioritized. It doesn't mean you can't buy one with a higher quality display as long as you are happy with the purchase overall. IPS has existed there for a few years, and it mostly involved $2000+ purchases. I'm thinking back several years, but going back that far I paid over $2k for an Eizo display on its own. Last year and possibly in 2011 Asus and a few others had notebooks with IPS displays around $1200-1400. My main complaint with Apple's displays was that the high resolution options should have been standard over the past couple years rather than cto options considering their price points. I do like that they've stuck with 16:10 for notebooks.
 
Lots of "inspiration" going on in laptop design at the moment. Seriously, there must be literally an infinite number of designs someone could make for a laptop and surely many better than Apple. How uncreative does your design department have to be to produce stuff like this HP?

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Have you seen HP's latest laptop?
Here's the HP Envy 14 TouchSmart Ultrabook. These guys are shameless.

2013-04-29_23-32-26-1020_verge_super_wide.jpg


2013-04-29_23-34-04-1020_verge_super_wide.jpg


2013-04-29_23-27-49-1020_verge_super_wide.jpg
 
Have you seen HP's latest laptop?
Here's the HP Envy 14 TouchSmart Ultrabook. These guys are shameless.

It's hard to deny that Jony Ive's designs have played a massive part in current tech fashion trends. Macbooks are probably the best looking laptops around, it's no wonder everyone else is aping a bit of their style

The biggest problem I have with some Apple fans is that they don't believe imitation to be the sincerest form of flattery. Instead of taking pride that everyone else is following Apple's lead in some regard, they take it as a personal insult, and believe it should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

Yes. Quite a few laptops look like Macbooks these days. Macbooks in turn have taken a few cues from other manufacturers in the past. It happens. Getting angry about it is petty.

(and a0me, I'm not directing this at you specifically. I'm just using your post as a launching post for a rant)
 
May I submit the following question.

Who really give a flying fig? Buy or don't buy. Apple and other OEMS might care. But as a consumer - why such animosity?

It's like people here just WANT to argue or get self-righteous about something here just because they have nothing better to do with a minute it takes to post.
 
Yes. Quite a few laptops look like Macbooks these days. Macbooks in turn have taken a few cues from other manufacturers in the past. It happens. Getting angry about it is petty.

I'm not angry. I think it's really sad. I'm all for "taking a few cues" but this is really sad.
 
Have you seen HP's latest laptop?
Here's the HP Envy 14 TouchSmart Ultrabook. These guys are shameless.

Image

Image

Image

Seriously, nobody on the design team had an issue with this design? This makes Samsung products look incredibly unique.

The company that inspired Jobs to make Apple a long lasting unique company in the first place ends up copying Apple's designs. The definition of sad.
 
Laptop manufacturers' hands are tied at the moment. They can come up with high resolution laptops, but that won't do anything else than half what their 24-inch monitors show.

So, it's Microsoft's move. They have to develop a smart pixel scaling algorithm. (For both the metro UI and the Desktop mode, which is extremely hard) There are literally millions of programs available for the Windows platform. And unlike Apple's OS, Windows is compatible with an infinite number of resolutions. (4:3, 16:9, 16:10, and all combinations of those) What Apple did was just design the OS for a couple resolutions only.
 
That's true enough. My "evidence" is purely anecdotal. I have my own computer and I, of course, know it well. My last roommate's 2 PC laptops had crappy screens - you couldn't have 2 people look at the screen at once, the viewing angle was so bad (3 and 4 years ago). My step-son's brand new PC laptop is the same. The macs owned by me, my mother and my best friend are all excellent and offer nice, wide viewing. I have not spent any time on an MBA. I've just seen them around and noticed that I could see the screen from the side, in passing; but don't remember how good/bad it was.

The general rule of thumb is that the quality of the screen you'll be getting tends to be proportional to how much you're paying for the laptop. If it cost you $500 or below, chances are good you're getting a cheaper TN panels. $700+, chances are good you'll be getting an IPS screen.

Macs are expensive for a reason. Save for the MBA, Apple uses top tier parts for all their machines. If you want a PC that'll give you as good an experience as an MBP, you won't have to spend quite as much to get one, but you're still gonna have to drop a good bit of money for it.
 
The general rule of thumb is that the quality of the screen you'll be getting tends to be proportional to how much you're paying for the laptop. If it cost you $500 or below, chances are good you're getting a cheaper TN panels. $700+, chances are good you'll be getting an IPS screen.

That isn't really true. IPS is still not a typical standard at this point. It's been added to more of the ultrabook classifications than anything else. It has made inroads, but if it's an IPS display, the oem is likely to market that. Even among TN displays, there's a pretty broad range. Apple still uses TN in the Airs and cMBPs. For a while during the G5 era they used them in the imacs. They switched back to IPS starting with the 24" imac, and of course the G4 imac used IPS. I think all of the intel ones used it too. It's not as big a deal in desktop displays now, as the basic technology has become much cheaper.
 
I'll need to read up a bit more on it, because dense displays have been around for awhile now.Want an example? Samsung actually had 300 PPI displays in testing as far back as 2004. That's a big one right there. Plus I'm pretty sure there was an old Windows Phone that had a high PPI display out a good while before the iPhone 4.

And those patents? One of them I'm a little hazy on, but they're more for generalized TFT screen quality than they are high PPI screens specifically.

High-density LCD panels have been around for a while, indeed. I'm not denying that at all.

However, it's very doubtful that the panels Samsung made in 2004 are the same design as the panels made in 2010. Just like the lower density panels of similar technology category arn't even the same within 4 years. (For example, I recall IPS panel tech went through maybe 3 iterations within 4 years?)

Just because Samsung shipped high density displays about a decade ago doesn't mean much given that we also don't know who developed those panels a decade ago. (My bet would be Sharp or Mitsubishi.)

And given that IPS research is primarily done by Hitachi and LG, by discussing a Samsung-made IPS panel we almost certainly have to start with the assumption that it was not designed by Samsung.

I'm not saying the iPhone 4 Retina Displays are entirely designed by Apple, as that's pretty much impossible. But given that Apple worked with LG on R&D for it, there's certainly more Apple R&D in it than there is Samsung's.

It's sad that LG gets such a bad rap in these forums given how much they do for LCD display tech in general. I mean, who here looks to buy a PLS display?
 
wow, mindblown.
those displays would be very useful, but i dont think we would see those displays in the market anytime soon.
 
For comparison, Apple's 13" MacBook Pro with Retina Display has a 2560x1600 13.3" display at 227 PPI.

True. But why, for comparison about the latest ultra high resolution notebooks, do you quote last years 13" rather than this years 15" MBPR

For comparison, Apple's 15" MacBook Pro with Retina Display has a 2880x1800 display
 
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