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Samsung is out of control, everything they make is a carbon copy of Apples offerings!
The fine needs to be at least 10 times the ORIGINAL fine of $900-something million in order to physically stop Samsung from being able to just ride Apples coat tails and steal everything Apple makes, infringe all of their patents and make off with all this money without having to spend a cent on R&D as Apple already spent their time, money and resources inventing or reinventing a product!
 
Samsung is out of control, everything they make is a carbon copy of Apples offerings!
The fine needs to be at least 10 times the ORIGINAL fine of $900-something million in order to physically stop Samsung from being able to just ride Apples coat tails and steal everything Apple makes, infringe all of their patents and make off with all this money without having to spend a cent on R&D as Apple already spent their time, money and resources inventing or reinventing a product!
Perhaps you should learn what "carbon copy" actually means?
 
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Considering the cash amount was originally a lot more - i think something like $9mil...and the fact that Samsung have agreed on the new amount... and that Samsung have taken Apple to court in the past for patent issues - Samsung should just pay and move on...

The trouble with certain patents is that they do limit you - for example, you should not be able to patent a screen size... but the technology behind it that make it work can be...
For example, the way force touch works, or the apple track pad etc -- these should be patented and are...

Things like the bands on the back of the iphone that are a design feature to improve the signal due to a metal shell - this should be patented... but the choice of color, the curved corners -- these shouldnt (unless for some reason the design is an element to improve the use of the phone, such as the grip, being reflective for safety, having curved edges for protection bumpers inside...

But what Samsung is being sued for is mostly blatant copying... granted all companies copy - and there are some phones that look very similar to apples (they look like a cheap knock-off) and I'm not talking about the chinese fake phones, but actual companies that have copied the shape, size, color, and even positioning of buttons.

Regardless - Samsung have copied and infringed on several patents... not all...but enough to warrant the amount...

And now that theyve tried to postpone it by accusing the people in the court not to know their jobs, Apple now have a chance to ask for more money seeing as though samsung are now announce "3D touch"... at least change the name.
 
I work for a company that files for patents all the time, and we are surprised at what Apple is able to patent when compared to other companies. You are correct, our patent system needs major reforms. I might not like Samsung, but I do sometimes feel Apple gets a bias in there favor when it comes to patents.

I also found this.

Not sure if this is old news, but it is a few months old.

Apple have sued companies (including Samsung) for 'pinch to zoom' - but even the most basic research on the internet reveals that Mitsubishi invented that design concept decades before the iPhone was released.

Apple have patents that should never have been granted in the first place.
 
I guess it's really Apple following Huawei then, though. They beat Apple to Force Touch.

Apple had Force Touch on Apple Watch and Macbook before Huawei, plus, Huawei has yet to release the phone. Just because you announced to be first does not mean you are the first.
 
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I wonder what Samsung's legal bills were during this time on all these cases and appeals? At some time, it may be cheaper to pay Apple...
 
Yep ever since apple copied Samsung's screen sizes. Every company steals from each other so I don't see Samsung being able to prove that they didn't and getting off.

Our patent system needs some major reforms, but this isn't a case that seems likely going to make the Supreme Court to make any changes to it.
Seriously! I thought you are smarter than that! My bad, sorry!
 
Come on, let's be honest guys

17ttuugwe7h72jpg.jpg


Samsung-Products-vs-Apple-products.jpg

Have you seen old Palm OS pdas? they look 'iphones'. A screen covering the whole front. And if you didn't know, the amount Samsung owed was $1B but was reduced, do you know why? Cause the design patents part (aka rounded corners) of the case was garbage.

And showing thick Samsung tablets and saying they copied Apple by making them thin? lol. So why didn't Apple make the Newton thin? Did Apple think people like thick mobile devices? So when the next iPhone has a camera lens that doesn't stick out, they copied Samsung? A reasonable person would say technology has evolved so things can be smaller and the lens can be flush with the back. Just like how tech evolved so tablets can be thin with the screen taking up the whole front.

I'm assuming many here that are so happy are not software developers or understand software patents. When Apple has a patent for "rubber band scrolling", no one can "copy" that. Apple owns that idea in every single programming language, even those not invented yet. With software patents, Apple doesn't have to show any source code in patent filings, just words, normal English text describing an idea. Even normal patents for things like machines, you have to show how it works.
 
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So when the next iPhone has a camera lens that doesn't stick out, they copied Samsung?

Why? Didn't iPhones before iPhone 6 had the cameras flush?
I think it's kind of pointless arguing on this. Everyone and their grandmothers know that Samsung is famous for copying (particularly anything Apple does) All companies do it (including Apple) but none like Samsung.
 
Apple have sued companies (including Samsung) for 'pinch to zoom' - but even the most basic research on the internet reveals that Mitsubishi invented that design concept decades before the iPhone was released.

Apple have patents that should never have been granted in the first place.
ALOT of the original patents Apple sued Samsung for have been invalidated because Samsung fought Apple tooth and nail.
All companies emulate and borrow ideas from each other. In the end we consumers benefit from this.
 
Why? Didn't iPhones before iPhone 6 had the cameras flush?
I think it's kind of pointless arguing on this. Everyone and their grandmothers know that Samsung is famous for copying (particularly anything Apple does) All companies do it (including Apple) but none like Samsung.

THE SENSOR WAS SMALLER, PHONES THICKER, got your answer.
People want better phones and they also want miracles and physics to go away...
 
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Not a lawyer so I'm not sure if it's possible but would be very hilarious if the Supreme Court ended up increasing how much Samsung had to pay.

It's very doubtful that the Supreme Court will even listen to the case.

I might not like Samsung, but I do sometimes feel Apple gets a bias in their favor when it comes to patents.

It's like anything else in the legal system. The more high priced lawyers you have, the better chance of success.
 
Let's get one thing straight about patents guys... Patented stuffs must be patentable. PERIOD!

Having said that, stuffs like size, shape are not patentable... and they are there fore not copying or stealing anyone's ideas. If somebody said "6 months old" is their idea, then nobody else can make things that last 6 months or more. Is that stealing/copying?

Make sure you understand the fact that the geometric proportion of the screen dimentions are directly related to the theory of pixels and refresh rates and resolution bit-rates. Just because Apple made the 4" phone after Samsung, it didn't mean Apple copied.

On the other hand... patentable stuffs like forcetouch, spring swipe when being made by your competitor after you patented it... that's called copying/stealing. During the course of the case, Plaintiff showed an internal Samsung document that compares iPhone to Galaxy piece by piece and suggesting which piece should be changed in the favor of Apple so that Galaxy can be a better device. This was one of the biggest smoking guns that landed $1B penalty in the first place.

Samsung in this particular case was accused of infringing "utility" and "design" patents, not "method" patents you cited as an example of "patentable stuff." Apple asserted no technical "method" patents, whereas Samsung's patents were mostly technical "method" patents. I doubt highly that Apple would be able to assert the utility patents like "bouncing back" or "slide-to-unlock" anymore in light of the recent SCOTUS decision, Alice vs CLS, which forbids software patents based on known abstract ideas. It's too late for Samsung to argue this, however, and reverse the utility patents portion of the ruling -- Apple's win which is less than $150M is pretty much set in stone.

As for your somewhat misinformed comment about Samsung infamous internal memo, everyone does this -- it's common business practices to analyze & benchmark competitors products, but the purpose is to also to catch up / improve upon them. The internal memo doesn't really prove Samsung's design infringement -- this piece of evidence was presented for Apple's "trade dress" claim, which again was reversed by the federal court of appeal early this year. One of Samsung executives did however call out their own designer team's failure, going far as calling their own UX on Omnia "ghetto" (that's fairly strong expression in Korean) and barely passable as work of college students in the memo.
 
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It's very doubtful that the Supreme Court will even listen to the case.

It's like anything else in the legal system. The more high priced lawyers you have, the better chance of success.

@Plutonius: based on what? This case is quite legally sound and all US companies and industries, especially those in manufacturing, are paying a lot of attention to this. You won't hear Barbara Boxer or Mike Lee voicing up against Apple -- as they are known for their rabid support of Apple, demonstrated in Obama's reversal of Samsung's win in 2013 -- but the public interest doesn't favor Apple in this case.

The court doc also revealed that Samsung's lawyers at QE are paid more than Apple's lawyers at MOFO (Morrison Foester) by about $200-$300 more in hourly rate (for partners), contrary to your nonsense.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...yers-are-getting-paid-in-the-smartphone-wars/

"... On Team Samsung, partners are billing a median rate of $821, while associates are billing a median rate of $448. Partners working for Apple are billing a median rate of $582 per hour, with associates billing $398 per hour. ..."
 
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Considering the cash amount was originally a lot more - i think something like $9mil...and the fact that Samsung have agreed on the new amount... and that Samsung have taken Apple to court in the past for patent issues - Samsung should just pay and move on...

The trouble with certain patents is that they do limit you - for example, you should not be able to patent a screen size... but the technology behind it that make it work can be...
For example, the way force touch works, or the apple track pad etc -- these should be patented and are...

Things like the bands on the back of the iphone that are a design feature to improve the signal due to a metal shell - this should be patented... but the choice of color, the curved corners -- these shouldnt (unless for some reason the design is an element to improve the use of the phone, such as the grip, being reflective for safety, having curved edges for protection bumpers inside...


@pad1986: I think Apple initially asked for $3B, not $9M.

There are four different types of patents at issue here. Apple's patents are "utility", "design" and "trade-dress," whereas Samsung's patents in its countersuit are mostly technical "method" and "utility" patents.

Apple's "utility patents" (eg, slide-to-unlock, bouncing-back) have been declared boink and Apple pretty much lost almost all its claims on those everywhere, but in the US. Even, then, a recent SCOTUS case, Alice vs CLS, pretty much invalidate all software utility patents are based on known abstract ideas, though this now has to be tested in court. Samsung however never argued the case on this legal theory, so they can't raise it now. So Apple walks away with $130+M in utility portion of the damage (can't be appealed and this portion of the damage is apportioned, so no complaint from Samsung).

This SCOTUS appeal is largely about the second part, "design" patents. Samsung is basically arguing (1) the amount awarded to Apple is way too much, or based on Samsung "entire profit" on the infringed devices, (2) no functional (or non-ornamental) elements should be design patentable. So the example provided in your comment wouldn't be design "patentable" if the band on a metal shell is required for functional (ie, better signal) purpose if the SCOTUS agrees with Samsung on (2).

I think Samsung is guilty (or infringed) on Apple's trade dress claims, but as said earlier, the appellate court reversed Apple's win early this year. This part of the lawsuit is also controversial in that, after initially agreeing not to bring any evidence that might influence/taint the jury's opinion on other "design" related claims (for obvious reasons) during pretrial, Judge Koh allowed Apple to present the infamous Samsung memo as evidence for their "trade dress" claim, but rejected Samsung's counter evidence on procedural grounds (and there were many other such odd procedural rulings against Samsung that crippled their defense). Samsung's lawyers at QE went to the media in anger, released a "summary" of their counter-evidence that the court wouldn't allow and was "almost" sanctioned. But it did expose the court's blatant favoritism for Apple. So we would never know how the jury might have decided on the design claims without the infamous memo (or at least with Samsung's defense). But based on all the responses (take for instance, response #43 in this thread) I hear form Apple supporters, this same exact memo mistakenly is used by Apple supporters to demonstrate Samsung's design infringement, as had been warned by all parties during the pretrial, (but Koh conveniently allowed only Apple to present). So the outcome would have been much different, had the presiding judges (Koh and Grewal) been a bit more impartial.

But what Samsung is being sued for is mostly blatant copying... granted all companies copy - and there are some phones that look very similar to apples (they look like a cheap knock-off) and I'm not talking about the chinese fake phones, but actual companies that have copied the shape, size, color, and even positioning of buttons.

Regardless - Samsung have copied and infringed on several patents... not all...but enough to warrant the amount...

And now that theyve tried to postpone it by accusing the people in the court not to know their jobs, Apple now have a chance to ask for more money seeing as though samsung are now announce "3D touch"... at least change the name.
 
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Only in America do sleazebag companies get called out for stealing intellectual property. That's a way better tagline.

Yep, I got something better, "only American companies are allowed to steal, but not foreign ones. Xenophobia in America courts rules, USA! USA!" ?
 
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Cough.. xerox parc .. cough..

You seem to have a cold. Do you want to explain the rest of your post?

I remember a story about Apple paying Xerox about 10 million in Apple shares for the permission to visit Xerox PARC and look at everything Xerox was doing there. These shares would have been worth billions now, but Xerox sold them.
 
The court doc also revealed that Samsung's lawyers at QE are paid more than Apple's lawyers at MOFO (Morrison Foester) by about $200-$300 more in hourly rate (for partners), contrary to your nonsense.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...yers-are-getting-paid-in-the-smartphone-wars/

"... On Team Samsung, partners are billing a median rate of $821, while associates are billing a median rate of $448. Partners working for Apple are billing a median rate of $582 per hour, with associates billing $398 per hour. ..."

And these are the lawyers who were so badly prepared in a court case about Samsung copying the iPad that they couldn't see the difference between an iPad and a Samsung tablet in court, when they were shown one of each by a judge.
 
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The first one (fosspatents) is a well-known clueless troll, with Florian Müller single handedly responsible for much of the entertainment in the SCO saga. I doubt that you could find _anyone_ with a worse reputation in legal matters on the whole of the internet. I stopped reading after that.
 
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