Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

euvnairb

macrumors regular
Oct 13, 2010
198
149
Goleta, CA
What else is there to innovate? At some point the cell phone market is going to plateau and handset makers are going to have to look at other places to expand. Same happened to PC's, and MP3 players and I don't doubt the same will happen to phones some time soon, I'm not one to say that Samsung's performance is reflective of the entire industry as a whole, but I wouldn't be surprised if handset makers started reporting flat sales or slower growth. I think that's the reason why Apple is rumored to be making a smart watch, it's another way for them to grow sales.
 

tdream

macrumors 65816
Jan 15, 2009
1,094
42
Samsung has their flagship phone at the end of its product cycle entering a huge holiday quarter, and Apple has its entire products refreshed right in front of the holiday quarter, with the iPhone 5S getting great reviews.

Yeah, I'd say Samsung had some competition.

Rationality, begone with you!
 

MrXiro

macrumors 68040
Nov 2, 2007
3,850
599
Los Angeles
Went on the samsung website recently just to see their latest offerings. ( I would never actually buy anything from Samsung besides TVs). Their website is so confusing and there are so many tablets available that I honestly didn't know which was the newest model. You see a screen with Note 2 and 8.1 and 10.1 and Tab 2 and I don't know what else. They seriously need to reduce their offerings.

Exactly... They even have too many TVs at this point too! If you do a search at BestBuy.com they currently sell 68 models of Samsung TVs... and that IS NOT the complete line.

It's madness.
 

Konrad9

macrumors 6502a
Feb 23, 2012
575
64
I think you may be confusing innovation with invention cos that's like saying the the retina display wasn't "true innovation" because the technology finally became feasible to cram more pixels into a given space. Taken further, one could, and many have, argued that the iPhone wasn't true innovation because Apple just took existing technology and wrapped it in a nice hardware/software package, but any reasonable person would tell you that the iPhone was truly a breakthrough, revolutionary device.

It doesn't matter that 64 bit processors have been around. Apple took desktop class technology and brought it to smartphones. That's the very definition of innovation. Just ask all the companies that were taken by surprise, who weren't expecting this to happen for a few more years, and they'll tell you the same. And Apple didn't stop there. They innovated further with a motion co-processor, duo-tone flash that fires off in a thousand different combinations for much more natural looking nighttime pictures and a fingerprint sensor that actually works in a consumer device.

Samsung had its share of innovations too. The problem for them is, most of them were gimmicks and flaky whereas Apple's more thoughtful innovations focus on providing real world benefits for its users.


...so when Samsung comes out with a monitor with a higher resolution they are innovating?

That is literally what you are saying.

----------

Well you bought it, so what's your point?

Uh, what's your question? I made my points very clear.

----------

No, Apple is on top because their phones and user experience works.

64-bit in a phone isn't innovation? Please. If it's feasible then why didn't your precious Android device makers do it yet? We won't even see that this year because they are playing catchup AGAIN.

And TouchID is what? Not innovation? Accurate fingerprint technology that "just works". That doesn't exist in Android land because nothing "just works".

The UI is terrible and performance is abysmal. You need to get a high-end Android phone to complete with an iPhone 4 that's what, 2 years old now?

My precious Android? How is it "mine" and why is it "precious"? Sorry that I have a less biased opinion than you do.

No, 64-bit isn't innovative, it's iterative.

TouchID is bordering on innovative because of the way it is used, but I seem to recall fingerprint scanners being on laptops for the better part of a decade.

I'm sorry you feel that way about Android's UI, but that's your opinion. I'm also sorry you feel that way about competitors' performance, but there are plenty of competing devices that benchmark at or above Apple's devices of the same generation. Not many, but some.
 

osofast240sx

macrumors 68030
Mar 25, 2011
2,539
16
...so when Samsung comes out with a monitor with a higher resolution they are innovating?

That is literally what you are saying.

----------



Uh, what's your question? I made my points very clear.

----------



My precious Android? How is it "mine" and why is it "precious"? Sorry that I have a less biased opinion than you do.

No, 64-bit isn't innovative, it's iterative.

TouchID is bordering on innovative because of the way it is used, but I seem to recall fingerprint scanners being on laptops for the better part of a decade.

I'm sorry you feel that way about Android's UI, but that's your opinion. I'm also sorry you feel that way about competitors' performance, but there are plenty of competing devices that benchmark at or above Apple's devices of the same generation. Not many, but some.
Mobile 64-bit is innovative!
Touch ID is awesome!
AirDrop destroys obliterates NFC!
FYI fingerprint scanner works totally different then the sensors on the laptops. Apple's way is totally innovative!
 

Swift

macrumors 68000
Feb 18, 2003
1,827
964
Los Angeles
Translation:

'After we finished copying, we have no idea what to do next, so we just threw a whole bunch of stuff against the wall, put out $10 billion in really awful ads, and hoped for the best.'
 

vomhorizon

macrumors 6502a
Sep 24, 2013
952
68
Since carriers are moving toward a non-subsidized phone and requiring people to pay full price($599+), we'll see if this makes a difference in sales/upgrades.



I think we'll just see a shift from a subsidized model to a NEXT/EDGE sort of model..As long as smartphones continue to get better, we'd see consumers want them..it simply boils down to smart financial engineering to get maximum consumers to afford the phone ( or get the perception that they can afford the phone :) )
 

paradox00

macrumors 65816
Sep 29, 2009
1,411
827
I'm sorry you feel that way about Android's UI, but that's your opinion. I'm also sorry you feel that way about competitors' performance, but there are plenty of competing devices that benchmark at or above Apple's devices of the same generation. Not many, but some.

If you buy phones based on benchmarks alone, you're doing it wrong, really wrong. Especially when companies like Samsung cheat at them anyway. Real world performance is far more important. Benchmark scores aren't reassuring if your UI lags. Even when looking at performance benchmarks, I'd look harder at single core performance, (where Android devices tend to lag a little). Most daily tasks aren't going to use all 4 or 8 cores.

PS: plenty and many are synonyms. How do plenty, but not many, devices benchmark at or above Apple's devices of the same generation?

----------

No, 64-bit isn't innovative, it's iterative.

That must be why there is a significant time gap between Apple's ARM based 64 bit solution and everyone else's.
 

osofast240sx

macrumors 68030
Mar 25, 2011
2,539
16
Is Apple innovative or the companies they acquired?
Both the innovative part for apple is putting all the tech into a neat little package and making all the different technologies work together. + apple has plenty of in house innovations .
 

rhett7660

macrumors G5
Jan 9, 2008
14,224
4,303
Sunny, Southern California
really? my nexus s (end of 2010) is running faster than ever on kitkat (end of 2013) :D



the only reason there is MS software for OS X i because apple needs it ;) you think they would sell it if there was no demand? the apple equivalent softwares just dont cut it. if people cant use ms office on mac, they are not gonna buy a mac.

Maybe you missed the part where the poster said "few". Which doesn't mean none and it doesn't mean all.
 

tongxinshe

macrumors 65816
Feb 24, 2008
1,064
651
Samsung markets too many products and it confuses the consumer, and Apple dominates in the Dec quarter, which typically happens. Samsung dominates in the Summer quarter, which is typically a slow quarter. Which would you choose? To dominate in a slow quarter or a busy quarter?

If Samsung was smart, they would simply get rid of their aging products which lose money. Being focused on market share and not focusing on profits is a self destructive business partern Samsung has. They think dominating by market share is more important, whereas making sure they are maintaining good profit margins is far more important, especially when you are going after the market segment that actually HAS money, SPENDS money and generates decent profit margins. The low cost phones LOSE MONEY. That portion of the market Apple is not interested in, because one can get a used iPhone on the cheap if they don't have enough money for a newer model.

TOTALLY wrong!!!

Really wise businesses always put customers' interests on the very top, because over time customers will realize that and ditch other businesses that put businesses' own interests on top.

If Apple set its profit margin at 15-20% (instead of >80%) when it first released iPhone, it would be at a much safer situation now, while still earning a lot of money because of much larger sales volume.

----------

That huge marketing blitz (some $10B-$14B) for the year bought marketshare, but lower ASP's. Looks like it petered out and isn't sustainable.

Not sustainable? You call 5 billion quarterly profit as "not sustainable"? In comparison, a high profit margin is much less sustainable!
 

SHNXX

macrumors 68000
Oct 2, 2013
1,901
663
As previously noted, smart phone market cannot sustain its growth.
Lower end devices still have a huge potential for growth and it suppose Chinese middle class growth could fuel growth for aapl's iPhones too.
But I feel like devices such as galaxy s5 will be squeezed.
Niche devices such as note3,4 may not suffer as muchc.
 

kdarling

macrumors P6
Samsung's corporate earnings missed expectations and its mobile division saw flat growth year-over-year due to pressure from inexpensive rivals and Apple's new lineup of iPhones, according to an analysis of its fourth-quarter earnings by Bloomberg.

The Korean conglomerate reported net income of 7.22 trillion won ($6.7 billion), well short of the 8.2 trillion won that analysts were expecting.

According to that same article (but not repeated here), South Korean currency value changes were responsible for 700 billion of missing revenue, a large part of the missing 1 trillion.

.
 
Last edited:

vvswarup

macrumors 6502a
Jul 21, 2010
544
225
TOTALLY wrong!!!

Really wise businesses always put customers' interests on the very top, because over time customers will realize that and ditch other businesses that put businesses' own interests on top.

If Apple set its profit margin at 15-20% (instead of >80%) when it first released iPhone, it would be at a much safer situation now, while still earning a lot of money because of much larger sales volume.

----------



Not sustainable? You call 5 billion quarterly profit as "not sustainable"? In comparison, a high profit margin is much less sustainable!

Sorry to disappoint you but businesses only pay lip service to the idea of "putting customers' interests on top." Apple professes that they're all about the consumer, but in reality, they want to make a profit. They simply see making products consumers like as the most important factor in achieving the goal of making a profit.

As a consumer, the profit that a company makes has no bearing on my buying decision. I'm trying to get the most value out of the money I spend. Let's a say a product costs "x" amount of dollars. If I think "x" amount of dollars is too much to pay for that product, it doesn't matter if the company that manufactures it is making or losing money on that product by selling it for "x" dollars. I'm not buying if I think the product isn't worth the money I'm paying for it.
 

Tumbleweed666

macrumors 68000
Mar 20, 2009
1,761
141
Near London, UK.
As a consumer, the profit that a company makes has no bearing on my buying decision. I'm trying to get the most value out of the money I spend. Let's a say a product costs "x" amount of dollars. If I think "x" amount of dollars is too much to pay for that product, it doesn't matter if the company that manufactures it is making or losing money on that product by selling it for "x" dollars. I'm not buying if I think the product isn't worth the money I'm paying for it.

+1

Though also reflect that if the company is consistently losing money it won't be around in the long term to make any more of those items or support the one you bought. Depending what the item is, a computer or a cheesecake, you may or may not care about that.
 

peterdevries

macrumors 68040
Feb 22, 2008
3,146
1,135
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
TOTALLY wrong!!!

Really wise businesses always put customers' interests on the very top, because over time customers will realize that and ditch other businesses that put businesses' own interests on top.

If Apple set its profit margin at 15-20% (instead of >80%) when it first released iPhone, it would be at a much safer situation now, while still earning a lot of money because of much larger sales volume.

It is you that is not completely correct. There are basically three strategies to be successful as a business:
  • Product leadership - producing the absolute best products in all respects on the market
  • Customer Intimacy - what you are referring to
  • Cost Leadership - being the most cost effective in the industry

Organisations that are really successful often focus on two of these. Often customer intimacy and cost leadership. A good example is Easyjet that has excellent customer focus while having some of the most competitive flight prices in the industry. Ryanair only focuses on cost leadership.

Product leadership is the hardest, but Apple excels as it. They have in most respects the best product on the market. Apple beats most other producers in terms of build quality, internal components and packaging.

Customers are often willing to pay a premium for those products as it gives them piece of mind (little repairs and problems) and provides status in some respects. Pricing is for this category a secondary factor. That is why Apple can get away with $100 prices to go to the next RAM tier in iPhones etc.

I recommend you to read this article. It has turned into a classic in business education.

Reading it you will realise that pricing isn't everything. Interestingly Apple is very good at each of the three value disciplines, a feat that only very little companies are successful at.
 

tongxinshe

macrumors 65816
Feb 24, 2008
1,064
651
Sorry to disappoint you but businesses only pay lip service to the idea of "putting customers' interests on top." Apple professes that they're all about the consumer, but in reality, they want to make a profit. They simply see making products consumers like as the most important factor in achieving the goal of making a profit.

As a consumer, the profit that a company makes has no bearing on my buying decision. I'm trying to get the most value out of the money I spend. Let's a say a product costs "x" amount of dollars. If I think "x" amount of dollars is too much to pay for that product, it doesn't matter if the company that manufactures it is making or losing money on that product by selling it for "x" dollars. I'm not buying if I think the product isn't worth the money I'm paying for it.

Sure as a customer, you don’t care about the profit margin, but you do care about the price, so another business making similar products but with a lower profit margin will sure win your business, leaving the companies with high profit margin to death.
 

peterdevries

macrumors 68040
Feb 22, 2008
3,146
1,135
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Sure as a customer, you don’t care about the profit margin, but you do care about the price, so another business making similar products but with a lower profit margin will sure win your business, leaving the companies with high profit margin to death.

Sorry Tongxinshe, but the situation is (thankfully) much more complicated than that, and there is consequently much more needed to understand this than your narrow view on pricing.

Examples are ecosystem value and gravity, price elasticity differences between Apple and competitor products, branding etc.

If it were so simple, than Apple would have lowered its prices long ago. As it happens, the iPad is the best selling tablet on the planet and probably also the most expensive based purely on its functionality and performance.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.