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I'm not saying that Samsung copied Apple. Or vice versa. I'm just pointing out that the "facts" in that image - which is often used to "prove" that Samsung was there first - are wrong.

Of course the two designs could have been developed separately. On the other hand one could speculate that Samsung, being a major provider of parts for the iPhone, must have known what it looks like long before it was revealed to the public. But that's all highly speculative.

True. Just trying to say that we don't live in a black and white world.
 
Freaking show me a sleek tablet design before the iPad, then this comment would make some sense.

I give you the HP Slate:
01-06-10slate2.jpg



The HP Slate’s design was released in January 22nd of 2010 and iPad’s was released January 27th. Proving me right that iPad was not the first sleek designed tablet.
 
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Freaking show me a sleek tablet design before the iPad, then this comment would make some sense.

Off the top of my head (There are more; I've been programming touch tablets, some custom built, as far back as 1992.)

2001_TC1000.png
2008_Scribbler_SC4000.png
2009_Crunchpad.png

Ive's designs are hommages to Rams' designs, not blatant rip-offs. There is a difference between, for example, designing a desktop computer that is an hommage to an almost 50-year-old design of a speaker and basing the design of your latest phone on the design of a competing product.

If Apple can give homage to Braun / Rams by basing their calculator on the same look, colors and so forth, what's wrong with Samsung doing a vague homage to Apple as well?
braun_apple_calc.png
 
Finally someone noticed the speakers

Have I just spotted an excellent idea by Samsung, that Apple should follow?

Am I mistaken or do I see two forward facing stereo speakers either side in the new narrow metal band?

If that's right, it's actually an excellent idea. Having one speaker that's it's most loud when you are looking at the edge of the device, or cup your hand around it to bounce the sound waves forwards toward the front (where you head is) is, let's be honest a dumb idea.

I really did wonder how the front facing speaker issue could be resolved.
Have Samsung found the most practical and neat solution I wonder?

Top marks if those narrow slits are speakers on both sides. :)

Surprised no one has commented on this yet. It's a real genuine improvement on the initial speaker placement of virtually all tablets up till now.

I have a Tab and I know where the speakers are on it so I noticed the difference right away.
 
If Apple can give homage to Braun / Rams by basing their calculator on the same look, colors and so forth, what's wrong with Samsung doing a vague homage to Apple as well?
View attachment 312577

The Braun calculator in question is from the 1960s and not in direct competition with, for example, the iPhone.

There is (at least in my opinion) a huge difference between basing the design of my new radio clock on the design of a specific 1940s toaster, or basing the design of my new radio clock on the design of a competitor's radio clock that came out 2 months before and is still being sold.

And not only will I mimick the design of the competitor's product, I will also use a similar box design, font, the way the radio clock is packaged, the way the product is presented in ads, etc. (like this for example)

In my opinion there's really a huge, huge difference between what Apple is doing with the Braun designs as opposed to what Samsung is doing with the Apple designs.
 
The Braun calculator in question is from the 1960s and not in direct competition with, for example, the iPhone.

There is (at least in my opinion) a huge difference between basing the design of my new radio clock on the design of a specific 1940s toaster, or basing the design of my new radio clock on the design of a competitor's radio clock that came out 2 months before and is still being sold.

And not only will I mimick the design of the competitor's product, I will also use a similar box design, font, the way the radio clock is packaged, the way the product is presented in ads, etc. (like this for example)

In my opinion there's really a huge, huge difference between what Apple is doing with the Braun designs as opposed to what Samsung is doing with the Apple designs.

Absolutely. Dieter Rams thinks rather highly of Apple and Steve Jobs attempts to make things easier and simpler to use. I believe to have read one interview or article about him where he states that Apple is the only company which designs he totally approves. :)

Needless to say that Apple think differently :)rolleyes:) about Samsung...

Anyway, by the time most of the legal cases regarding Samsung's tablet have been settled, the iPad 3 will probably available already. That will further diminish the demand for the Tab.

If there was any to begin with. For example in Hong Kong I have seen several promotions already, that if you sign up with these and that, you get a Samsung Tab on top. Doesn't scream successful product IMHO. Have also never seen one apart from the 7" version in the wild.
 
Absolutely. Dieter Rams thinks rather highly of Apple and Steve Jobs attempts to make things easier and simpler to use. I believe to have read one interview or article about him where he states that Apple is the only company which designs he totally approves. :)

You may believe, but without a link I don't believe.
 
You may believe, but without a link I don't believe.

Ok, this is not the article I have read (which was written in German anyway) but a 2s google, i found this (in English)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/8555503/Dieter-Rams-Apple-has-achieved-something-I-never-did.html

Dieter Rams on Apple
I have always regarded Apple products – and the kind words Jony Ive has said about me and my work – as a compliment. Without doubt there are few companies in the world that genuinely understand and practise the power of good design in their products and their businesses. Probably the first example was Peter Behrens and his work for the German company AEG, in the early part of the 20th century. He might be considered to be the founder of corporate identity. Adriano Olivetti was close behind as he transformed his father’s Italian company, Olivetti. Having become aware of this scarcity at the start of my career in the 1950s, I am sorry to report that the situation does not seem to have improved to this day.
I have always observed that good design can normally only emerge if there is a strong relationship between an entrepreneur and the head of design. At Apple this situation exists - between Steve Jobs and Jony Ive. This was the case at Braun where I always reported to Erwin and Artur Braun or, after their departure, the chairman of the board. It is the same in my relationship with the furniture manufacturer, Vitsoe, where I worked closely with the founder Niels Vitsoe and, since his death, Mark Adams - a period now spanning more than 50 years.
I am always fascinated when I see the latest Apple products. Apple has managed to achieve what I never achieved: using the power of their products to persuade people to queue to buy them. For me, I had to queue to receive food at the end of World War II. That’s quite a change.
I am troubled by the devaluing of the word 'design’. I find myself now being somewhat embarrassed to be called a designer. In fact I prefer the German term, Gestalt-Ingenieur. Apple and Vitsoe are relatively lone voices treating the discipline of design seriously in all corners of their businesses. They understand that design is not simply an adjective to place in front of a product’s name to somehow artificially enhance its value. Ever fewer people appear to understand that design is a serious profession; and for our future welfare we need more companies to take that profession seriously.
 
Off the top of my head (There are more; I've been programming touch tablets, some custom built, as far back as 1992.)

View attachment 312572
View attachment 312573
View attachment 312574



If Apple can give homage to Braun / Rams by basing their calculator on the same look, colors and so forth, what's wrong with Samsung doing a vague homage to Apple as well?
View attachment 312577

You know they are going to ignore this post right? Fanboys use blinders.

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Might have to pick me up one of these.
 
Ye, they have offered it. By copying further. Not just the phones. Have you seen the power bricks? The packaging? And its not only Samsung. ASUS on it's new ultrabooks has the same powerbrick as the MBA

You ever stop to think both companies are using the same supplier?
 
One thing I would want to know is what happens if one court (Dutch court per example) dictates that this Community Design is invalid. Would processes in other countries adhere to that resolution?

A community design is a unitary right. If it's invalidated by OHIM or a community design court, it's invalid everywhere (art. 1(3) and art. 25 EU Regulation No 6/2002).
 
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Please enlighten us all...

In order to be valid, a community design must be new, and of individual character. Novelty means that no identical design (different only in immaterial details) has been made available before the effective priority date of the filing.

A design has individual character if the overall impression it creates on the informed user is different from any other design that has been made available to the public.

When it comes to registration, there is no substantive examination to determine whether the design registration is valid. Examination is only for formalities like checking that the application form has been filled in properly. It's open to companies to check out what designs have been registered, and then they can apply to invalidate at any time.

For the purpose of a community design, disclosure is not deemed to have taken place if it could not reasonably have become known to the circles specialising in the sector concerned within the community. This limits the effect of very obscure designs, but the sector concerned is that of the alleged prior art, so its effect is more limited than it might at first appear.

A community design is infringed by any other design that creates the same overall impression on the informed user. Questions of whether copying took place are not relevant - copying is not a requirement for infringement, nor is it sufficient to determine infringement.

The scope of protection is not limited to a particular class or application, and is determined by the representation of the design as filed in the application. In the case of the Community Design Registration (CDR) that Apple used to get an injunction against Samsung, the scope of protection is not determined by considering whether a Galaxy tab creates the same impression as an iPad, but whether it creates the same impression as the design as shown in the representation filed. Since the Apple design representation is a line drawing, questions of colour and material are not relevant.

Features that are solely dictated by technical function are excluded from protection. This is interpreted in the sense of requiring that functionality is the only factor in the design of the feature (i.e. aesthetics being irrelevant).

In practice, recent cases before the UK community design courts appear to have shown that the bar is pretty high for infringement, and designs that were clearly "inspired" by striking designs which are protected by design registration have been held not to infringe. The informed user is not the average consumer, and to create the same overall impression is quite a high bar (see Dyson v Vax EWCA 2011 & EWHC 2010 for a recent example http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2011/1206.html www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Patents/2010/1923.html)

I've not read up that carefully on the Apple v Samsung CDR dispute, but I understand that it has not reached judgement, but that an interim injunction has been sought and obtained. In the UK, this requires only that there is an arguable case, that damages are not an adequate remedy, and that the balance of convenience to the parties is in favour of granting the injunction (i.e. more or less that appears to be the most fair course of action).
 
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Of course the two designs could have been developed separately. On the other hand one could speculate that Samsung, being a major provider of parts for the iPhone, must have known what it looks like long before it was revealed to the public. But that's all highly speculative.

Samsung didn't supply LCDs, cases or boards. They just sold Apple memory, cpu and power chips.

So there's no reason for Samsung to have known what any Apple product looked like before they were publicly revealed.

(OTOH, it seems quite possible for anyone to bribe someone in the factories to get pictures or samples of Apple products, if you wanted to.)

(re: community design)

Features that are solely dictated by technical function are excluded from protection. This is interpreted in the sense of requiring that functionality is the only factor in the design of the feature (i.e. aesthetics being irrelevant).

Which is why the Dutch judge ruled against the design: he found that its form followed function.

To him, the curved corners made sense from a easier-to-handle standpoint. The flat glass made functional sense because it keeps dust from collecting in grooves on the face. And so forth.

The German judges acknowledged, but ultimately ignored, the Dutch judge's design functionality thoughts. They said that minimal designs should be protected even if they were generic looking.
 
It appears that the Community wide injunction has just been partially lifted on the Galaxy Tab, and http://jiplp.blogspot.com/2011/11/euro-injunction-mechanism-in-community.html

Haven't read it all that closely.

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Which is why the Dutch judge ruled against the design: he found that its form followed function.

To him, the curved corners made sense from a easier-to-handle standpoint. The flat glass made functional sense because it keeps dust from collecting in grooves on the face. And so forth.

The German judges acknowledged, but ultimately ignored, the Dutch judge's design functionality thoughts. They said that minimal designs should be protected even if they were generic looking.

I forgot to mention that the degree of design freedom is taken into account in determining individual character. Where design is constrained by technical considerations, this has the effect of meaning that small differences in design will be considered significant.

I've not read the Dutch judgement - could you share a link? It may be that a variant of the above argument was deployed.
 
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