Samsung's Massive Document Outlining How to Improve Galaxy S by Adopting iPhone Solutions Surfaces

[KnightWRX]

Thing is, why would Samsung spend time and money cloning XCode when they've got a ton of other IDEs that look about the same, perform about the same, and work just as well if not better?

Who cares which they ended up copying ? It's a IDE for christ sake. Pick one, copy it. No need to reinvent the UI wheel for such a basic tool seen by a small percentage of people who don't really give a damn about how it looks.

Anyway, looking through their developer site, it seems that the Samsung IDE in question here is being phased out with SDK 3.5.1 which is moving to Eclipse.

 

[Renzatic]

Who cares which they ended up copying ? It's a IDE for christ sake.

Yeah, that's about the root of this particular discussion. Well, not really "who cares", but rather "why care". If Samsung did develop it and made it look like XCode...so? Maybe they liked the OSX layout, but wanted to stick to a Windows environment.

Though I'm kinda curious why they'd go through the trouble at all.

But really, it's about as "copying" as the thousands of OSX skins available for Windows. Some people like the look of something, so they change things around to fit their tastes.

 

[Hoppesangen]

The answers you and I'd expect.

- Looks nothing like Xcode.
- Looks more like some other IDE.
- Xcode was itself based on some other IDE.
- Some IDE came before Xcode.

All these guys won't ever say it looks like Xcode. The view placement on the top right corner, the center screen for interface builder, the bottom right corner for viewing and selecting UI items, etc.

It's hard to get the message across some of the people on this board. They make comparisons to Visual Studio when they don't appear similar at all, but cannot see the obvious design elements picked up from Xcode.

I don't even argue anymore. Just let it be. Pretend you're blind and mute.

I agree with this guy.

 

[Renzatic]

Well this little bit here...

All these guys won't ever say it looks like Xcode. The view placement on the top right corner, the center screen for interface builder, the bottom right corner for viewing and selecting UI items, etc.

...explains about 95% of all IDEs.

So agree with him all you want.

 

[dethmaShine]

Well this little bit here...



...explains about 95% of all IDEs.

So agree with him all you want.

And with exactly the same design?

Ah well! Why am I arguing?! Bad habits don't go fast. :/

 

[kdarling]

All these guys won't ever say it looks like Xcode. The view placement on the top right corner, the center screen for interface builder, the bottom right corner for viewing and selecting UI items, etc.

Well, you see, that's what I thought Egg was talking about at first, too. However, those pane types are common in IDEs, and a developer can arrange them however they feel most comfortable. That's why our first natural reaction was to point that out.

I believe instead that Egg was talking about the overall look of the top header, which apparently in some examples online looks similar, but not in the actual app version I have.

 

[boronathan]

Yeah, that's about the root of this particular discussion. Well, not really "who cares", but rather "why care". If Samsung did develop it and made it look like XCode...so? Maybe they liked the OSX layout, but wanted to stick to a Windows environment.

Though I'm kinda curious why they'd go through the trouble at all.

But really, it's about as "copying" as the thousands of OSX skins available for Windows. Some people like the look of something, so they change things around to fit their tastes.

Why is exactly the question and it works another way. Why pretend they're not alike? As knight pointed out, it's an ide for christs sake. So why act as if you don't see the similarities??

Like you said, so what if Samsung copied this? Who really cares? But why play dumb and act as if there are no similarities? Lol

 

[Renzatic]

Why is exactly the question and it works another way. Why pretend they're not alike? As knight pointed out, it's an ide for christs sake. So why act as if you don't see the similarities??

Like you said, so what if Samsung copied this? Who really cares? But why play dumb and act as if there are no similarities? Lol

Go back a page. You'll see that I pointed out that the trim is exactly what you'd see in OSX, and it's weird to see it in a Windows environment.

I wasn't denying anything.

 

[boronathan]

Go back a page. You'll see that I pointed out that the trim is exactly what you'd see in OSX, and it's weird to see it in a Windows environment.

I wasn't denying anything.

No I saw that, I was referring to the others. It's just strange to pretend, and I really do believe they're pretending, that they see no similarity or that "oh its an ide, they all look the same".

Almost like they're afraid to admit that apple created something that another company might emulate.

Why, indeed lol.

Btw when I said "you" I was speaking in general. Apologize for the confusion

 

[KnightWRX]

Almost like they're afraid to admit that apple created something that another company might emulate.

It's a toolbar. And as far as we know, it's not the tool's actual toolbar, it's just the one used by the developer who made the documentation. My own Xcode window doesn't even look like the Xcode screenshot :



Has anyone bothered to download the Samsung IDE to even check ? Why yes, kdarling did. And he posted a screenshot.

*sigh*. Developer customizes IDE to make himself more productive. News at 11.

Why, indeed lol.

That, or we don't care enough to go beyond "it's just an IDE, they all look the same" and move on since Apple has not sued Samsung over the look of the toolbar in their IDE based on some fantasy XCode UI design patent. It's irrelevant and not interesting and just derailing the thread uselessly.

 

[fertilized-egg]

Who cares which they ended up copying ? It's a IDE for christ sake. Pick one, copy it. No need to reinvent the UI wheel for such a basic tool seen by a small percentage of people who don't really give a damn about how it looks.

That's exactly my point; Samsung DID reinvent the wheel. They actually had to put extra effort to make a Windows program look like an OSX app. If they didn't want to reinvent the wheel, why didn't they just use the standard Windows UI controls?

Anyway, looking through their developer site, it seems that the Samsung IDE in question here is being phased out with SDK 3.5.1 which is moving to Eclipse.

So... are you saying Samsung did copy Apple here or not?

However, those pane types are common in IDEs, and a developer can arrange them however they feel most comfortable. That's why our first natural reaction was to point that out.

...explains about 95% of all IDEs.

So agree with him all you want.

Actually no. Go back and look at Delphi and Visual Studio. Neither uses view placement on the top right corner that's the standard in OSX nor the bottom right corner for viewing and selecting UI items in the way xcode does.

I suppose 95% doesn't include Visual Studio or Delphi.

It's hard to get the message across some of the people on this board. They make comparisons to Visual Studio when they don't appear similar at all, but cannot see the obvious design elements picked up from Xcode.

I don't even argue anymore. Just let it be. Pretend you're blind and mute.

I usually stay off these lawsuit-related discussions. To be honest, since many of the posters in this thread often claim that Macrumors should be more "objective", I was curious to see how they would respond to the most egregious example of Samsung copying off Apple since (at least I thought) there is little dispute that Samsung ripped off xcode pretty blatantly.

I actually didn't expect some of these posters would refuse to admit that this Samsung app was a blatant copy job to the very end but that's what happened. At least I know how to adjust my expectation whey they say we should be "objective", but it's a bit disappointing knowing these posters also contribute a lot too.

 

[KnightWRX]

I actually didn't expect some of these posters would refuse to admit that this Samsung app was a blatant copy job

Wait, so now it's a blatant copy job ? It's just a toolbar, it's not reinventing the Windows UI since you can make those toolbars using standard Windows UI controls, there wasn't even any effort here.

The rest of the software's UI is just plain IDE fare that could have come from any IDE.

Yes, we're so not objective because we fail to care or understand why you even would bring this up, fail to double check it by downloading and opening the software itself to see if this was really the default look and post actual screenshots.

This is just all irrelevant. It's no big "Samsung blatant copy job". It's a "Run/Stop/Editor panes" toolbar. Sure it looks like Xcode's. So what ?

 

[DeathChill]

It's a toolbar. And as far as we know, it's not the tool's actual toolbar, it's just the one used by the developer who made the documentation. My own Xcode window doesn't even look like the Xcode screenshot :

View attachment 352711

Has anyone bothered to download the Samsung IDE to even check ? Why yes, kdarling did. And he posted a screenshot.

*sigh*. Developer customizes IDE to make himself more productive. News at 11.

Uh, it appears in the official Samsung documentation so I would assume it would be left "stock". As well, didn't kdarling say that his was the version from two years ago? Maybe it's been changed since then?

I just know that fertilized-egg provided a link from 2011 where a developer remarks that it looks like Xcode on a stock installation. As well, the documentation links are from 2011. I would assume the version from 2011 would be the version that resembles Xcode.

That, or we don't care enough to go beyond "it's just an IDE, they all look the same" and move on since Apple has not sued Samsung over the look of the toolbar in their IDE based on some fantasy XCode UI design patent. It's irrelevant and not interesting and just derailing the thread uselessly.

I'm not sure that we're in a court here and specifically restricted to discussing what Apple is suing Samsung over. It was just an interesting post to see that Samsung actually spent some time to make their IDE resemble Xcode for some reason. It's just strange is all.

 

[Burger Thing]

The answers you and I'd expect.

- Looks nothing like Xcode.
- Looks more like some other IDE.
- Xcode was itself based on some other IDE.
- Some IDE came before Xcode.

All these guys won't ever say it looks like Xcode. The view placement on the top right corner, the center screen for interface builder, the bottom right corner for viewing and selecting UI items, etc.

It's hard to get the message across some of the people on this board. They make comparisons to Visual Studio when they don't appear similar at all, but cannot see the obvious design elements picked up from Xcode.

I don't even argue anymore. Just let it be. Pretend you're blind and mute.

Just don't take this forum board to seriously. I certainly don't and get my laughs while having my breakfast coffee. According to some here, the Galaxy XY looked nothing like the iPhone because the shading of the chrome accents was slightly different and it even *gasp* had a Samsung logo. A few pages later it was stated by the same joker that the MacBook Air was a copy of a Sony Vaios.

 

[fertilized-egg]

It was just an interesting post to see that Samsung actually spent some time to make their IDE resemble Xcode for some reason. It's just strange is all.

That's the most head scratching part of it all, why? As I've mentioned a couple of times here already, maybe Samsung was going after the existing Apple developer community - I've said it before but the earliest Samsung KIES was a pretty obvious copy of iTunes to a large extent but that made sense because it was a consumer product. I just don't understand the rationale behind making a Windows IDE look like an OSX one.

Wait, so now it's a blatant copy job ? It's just a toolbar, it's not reinventing the Windows UI since you can make those toolbars using standard Windows UI controls, there wasn't even any effort here.

Are you really saying putting a customized skin on an app takes no effort over using the standards Windows UI?

 

[boronathan]

It's a toolbar. And as far as we know, it's not the tool's actual toolbar, it's just the one used by the developer who made the documentation. My own Xcode window doesn't even look like the Xcode screenshot :

View attachment 352711

Has anyone bothered to download the Samsung IDE to even check ? Why yes, kdarling did. And he posted a screenshot.

*sigh*. Developer customizes IDE to make himself more productive. News at 11.



That, or we don't care enough to go beyond "it's just an IDE, they all look the same" and move on since Apple has not sued Samsung over the look of the toolbar in their IDE based on some fantasy XCode UI design patent. It's irrelevant and not interesting and just derailing the thread uselessly.

No offense, knight, but you derail a ton of threads. No need to play mod. We're having a discussion and forum threads go off topic, and you've gone off topic plenty. Either you stay on topic always or you concede that threads will naturally go off topic. You don't just call the shots and decide when it's gone too off topic.

That being said, yes, it's just a toolbar, yes its no big deal, and yes it looks like Xcode. This wouldn't have gone so far off topic had you just agreed to that from the beginning.

Again, it's no biggie which makes the continued refusal to acknowledge the similarities perplexing. It's just an ide for christs sake, why so hesitant to say Samsung modeled their ide like apples?

 

[fertilized-egg]

That being said, yes, it's just a toolbar, yes its no big deal, and yes it looks like Xcode. This wouldn't have gone so far off topic had you just agreed to that from the beginning.

Again, it's no biggie which makes the continued refusal to acknowledge the similarities perplexing. It's just an ide for christs sake, why so hesitant to say Samsung modeled their ide like apples?

My guess is that because it shows Samsung ripped of Apple when there was no particularly good reason to rip off Apple. This weakens the argument that Samsung as a company does no such thing as copying Apple. Which probably is why a few other posters are also refusing to see that similarity. This fits in perfectly with the thread's topic, the accusation that Samsung has been obsessing over Apple and copied many of their products. But I don't think it'll go anywhere.

 

[Renzatic]

My guess is that because it shows Samsung ripped of Apple when there was no particularly good reason to rip off Apple. This weakens the argument that Samsung as a company does no such thing as copying Apple. Which probably is why a few other posters are also refusing to see that similarity. This fits in perfectly with the thread's topic, the accusation that Samsung has been obsessing Apple and copied many of their products.

Your logic has gridlocked our BRAINS!

 

[KnightWRX]

That being said, yes, it's just a toolbar, yes its no big deal, and yes it looks like Xcode. This wouldn't have gone so far off topic had you just agreed to that from the beginning.

The initial premise was that this was a "Blatant copy job for the XCode UI". Only after we argued about IDEs in general did this become only about the toolbar. So no, there was nothing to "just agree to" from the beginning.

----------

My guess is that because it shows Samsung ripped of Apple when there was no particularly good reason to rip off Apple. This weakens the argument that Samsung as a company does no such thing as copying Apple. Which probably is why a few other posters are also refusing to see that similarity. This fits in perfectly with the thread's topic, the accusation that Samsung has been obsessing over Apple and copied many of their products. But I don't think it'll go anywhere.

All that from a toolbar built out of standard Windows UI controls ? Wow. Infaillible logic.

That being said, I'm bowing out. Obviously this whole round play button in an IDE is proof that Samsung is guilty of multiple design, trade dress and trademark infringement. No need to discuss actual evidence and merits of the case, the Samsung IDE proves it all.

*sigh*. That is why we can never have intelligent discussion around here about actual issues, it always has to devolve to bickering.

 

[fertilized-egg]

The initial premise was that this was a "Blatant copy job for the XCode UI". Only after we argued about IDEs in general did this become only about the toolbar.

So you're saying this is NOT a blatant copy job for the xcode UI?

Simple request: can show me a single Windows IDE that looks like that?



----------

That being said, I'm bowing out. Obviously this whole round play button in an IDE is proof that Samsung is guilty of multiple design, trade dress and trademark infringement. No need to discuss actual evidence and merits of the case, the Samsung IDE proves it all.

*sigh*. That is why we can never have intelligent discussion around here about actual issues, it always has to devolve to bickering.

Oh... But bickering is what Macrumors is for!

 

[sha4000]

*sigh*. That is why we can never have intelligent discussion around here about actual issues, it always has to devolve to bickering.

You are so right.

----------

So you're saying this is NOT a blatant copy job for the xcode UI?

Why don't you just make a new thread about your " Evidence of Samsung Blatantly Copying Again " or we can just move on.

 

[fertilized-egg]

Why don't you just make a new thread about your " Evidence of Samsung Blatantly Copying Again " or we can just move on.

I don't usually participate in these legal threads and don't really want to start another thread on this topic. I just thought this was an odd, yet interesting copy job by Samsung and was related to the topic on a tangent since it's an example of Samsung's odd obsession with Apple's style.

Besides the pure level of denial displayed by the few posters here were just fascinating considering they are obviously very intelligent people, and telling that they are the ones who usually preach the need for "objectivity" to the Apple fans at Macrumors.

 

[JAT]

*sigh*. That is why we can never have intelligent discussion around here about actual issues, it always has to devolve to bickering.

No, it's because of ego.

Good lord.

 

[dbrewster]

The amount of ignorance in this board is astounding.

Did Samsung overstep? Absolutely.

I find it hilarious how some people have the nerve to claim that most, if not all, of Apple's patents are "obvious" or downright "BS". You see, it's easy to claim that something is such in HINDSIGHT. If Samsung had the FORSIGHT, I'm certain they would have patented the same things as well. The problem was, they didn't have any idea where technology was heading, & the moment Apple showed the solution they powered up the photocopiers.

Show me any other phone that looks like an iPhone, before the iPhone was released, which had the same impact on consumers & technology as a whole. J U S T O N E.

Also, you may not want how Apple operates, but in terms of business ethics, it s**** on both Samsung & Google, who are both ex-convicts.

 

[Rennir]

Also, you may not want how Apple operates, but in terms of business ethics, it s**** on both Samsung & Google, who are both ex-convicts.

You mean using the same techniques to minimize their tax burdens, keeping money overseas, and using manufacturers in Brazil and China just like Samsung (and possibly Google) does?

I agree that Apple certainly hasn't been fined $22.5 million like Google has, which AFAIK, Samsung hasn't been fined for either. So exactly what constitutes "s****"?