Samsung's New 32-Inch 'M8' Display vs. Apple's Studio Display

[RamGuy]

This is a common misstatement. Retina is not just about PPI but about PPI and distance from the screen. My 4k 50" TV isn't retina in PPI terms, but I sit far enough back that I can't come close to discerning pixels. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retina_display for a discussion of this.

What this means is that whether a screen is sharp enough to be 'retina' is also dependent on distance... a 32" 4k screen becomes retina (can't differentiate the pixels) at about 25 inches (https://designcompaniesranked.com/resources/is-this-retina/).
View attachment 1994675
The 5k screen WILL seem sharper but it's not a (forgive me...) black and white difference.

This^

But I totally agree with the comments saying that a 32-inches at 2160P (3840x2160) is not going to be a "Retina display" and you pretty much confirm this. Who sits 64 cm (25 inches)+ from a monitor? I just measured the distance I sit from my 2x 34-inch ultrawides and it's about 51 cm (20 inches) and that's my normal sitting position, I happen to peak closer at times as well. Apple's notion about desktop monitors having to be around ~210-220 PPI to be Retina feels about correct and if we use your calculator that should mean it's Retina as long as you stay beyond 41 cm (16 inches) and sitting anything closer than that seems unlikely for most scenarios.

 

[RamGuy]

This kind of logic is so misleading as your eyes are much further away from a desktop display that an iPad or iPhone.

That's why the requirement for being considered "Retina" on a phone and tablet is different from a laptop, which again is different for a monitor, which again is considered different from a TV. There is a reason why the iPhone is featuring 460 PPI, making it "Retina" from about 20 cm (8 inches), whereby a monitor is considered Retina with under half the PPI at 218 PPI because it takes into account whatever distance you are expected to have your eyes from the display.

This was the whole thing that kicked the term "Retina display" in motion to begin with. It's about having a minimum amount of pixel density making it impossible for normal vision to be capable of distinguishing pixels from expected viewing distances.

The whole term and logic behind it all exists for the solve purpose to solve the issue you are trying to raise.

 

[theluggage]

4K < 5K

$700 < $1600

If you’re doing “prosumer” photo or video work then the 5k will be better. The video says that clearly about 1 minute in. If you’re doing professional, colour calibrated photo/video work, you can pay $1600 or more for a “professional” 2560x1440 display, and I’ll leave it to the pros to decide whether the Studio Display cuts the mustard for them.

If you’re doing general work, coding, spreadsheets, working on documents etc. you can get 2-3 4K displays for the price of a studio display, enjoy massive screen real estate, and won’t notice the difference between 4K and 5k once you stop examining it close up and get on with your work. On a 32” screen you’ll probably be able to use 1:1 mode and not worry about non-integer scaling. Otherwise, “looks like 2560x1440” (stupid name - actually 5k down-sampled to 4K and a lot more detailed than 1440p) is pretty good on a 4K screen on a Mac with a half-decent GPU.

You want the best display for a Mac and have the budget? Go ahead and buy the Studio or Pro XDR - there are barely any competing 5k or 6k displays, so the price is what it is. Problem is, some people are giving out the false impression that 4K will make your eyes bleed and scaled mode will make them fall out.

Reality is that 4k is pretty good and - with the demise of the 5k iMac - vastly more affordable. (The Samsung in this article is only one choice).

 

[RamGuy]

I think the flickering they were referring to was about PWM strobing which apparently is more pronounced on Apple's MiniLED displays.

PWM is in use on pretty much everything these days. The days of flicker-free displays are pretty much at an end. Luckily PWM is much better these days, take the MacBook Pro 14-inch with mini-LED for instance, it has a PWM frequency of 14880. The days of terrible sub 5000 PWM frequency monitors are long gone.

As a person with chronic tension headaches and chronic migraines, I was unable to use anything with PWM as it would irritate my chronic migraines like there was no tomorrow. Haven't had any problem with displays that are staying above 5000 PWM frequency. There are obviously going to be people that are more sensitive than me, but considering I'm in a rather rough spot, to begin with, I think it's safe to say that PWM strobing has evolved into frequencies that will have a really hard time affecting most people.

 

[troublador]

At that price point, I think the Huawei Mateview is a more compelling option:

Extremely Apple-like design language, higher DPI, and one of the only HIDPI monitors on the market to have a 3:2 aspect ratio for extra vertical space! It's 28", but because of the aspect ratio its desk footprint is only slightly above a 24" iMac. It's $900 CAD, so about $700 USD. Worth a look if you don't need an integrated webcam!

I have the MateView and it's great. Nice-looking design. Height adjustable. No weird scaling issues. Crisp text. Its price has been as low as £399 in the UK from places like Currys. I would like the Apple Studio Display but I'm not paying £1,499 for it when I can get this instead.

 

[iBluetooth]

Samsung's monitor to be the better value here.

You know that the Studio Display is 5K with 60% more pixels. Thus, the price of the Samsung display is at least $1100 just upped by the pixels.
But, the best value display is the LG 4K 32" monitor at only $600 with an arm that is offset to the side.

 

[moodler]

Samsung's really made a great option for people in apartments or students with this all-in-one TV/Monitor.

If only Apple Studio Monitor had included, for the same price (mostly this is software stuff):
- Wifi
- Airplay
- Apple TV app (or full tvOS, why not?)
- compatibility with Apple remote

Then they could have come close and had a real winner of a product. Sigh.

 

[scsskid]

What is so difficult about making a small bezel with equal dimensions all around?

at least thicker bezel is on bottom not like LG 5k ;-)

 

[44267547]

These are two totally different products for two totally different markets. Very weird comparison with a large misunderstanding about what kinds of monitors you have and what you can use them for. I can use the studio display for photo editing and video editing if I do that on that Samsung display I would get fired within a month because it all wouldn't look right.

There’s a Director of a major marketing in my city, and I was talking to him years ago, he mentioned that about every three years they upgrade their iMacs, [Which they typically spend about ~$30,000 on new units]. He told me they purposely would go over budget just to purchase Apple displays, because the calibration is far more accurate than the over-saturated coloration you see on Samsung displays. I think that really says something.

For the record, I don’t have a problem Samsung displays, but I’m also not a marketing professional that requires accurate color renditions for photos/detail, but I can see why somebody at that level would be very specific.

 

[jakey rolling]

Yes, let's keep comparing 5k monitors to 4k monitors at "half the price" and pretend they are the same.

For >90% of computer users, they are. Well, except for the price, that is.

 

[jakey rolling]

The comparisons should only be to 5K displays.

That's a good Apple customer. Do the comparison Apple wants you to do. Ignore personal use-cases and workflow. Only compare the factors that Apple highlights in their marketing material.

 

[bobbie424242]

For what it's worth, there's a rumor of a Dell UltraSharp 32" 6K with the new Black IPS technology (currently found in the U2723QE and U3223QE, both 4K) coming in early 2023. If that's true, I predict it will be very popular among mac users.

 

[theorist9]

The ideal points per inch for Mac is ~110, which is what most graphics artifacts are designed for and what a fair bit of text is sized for.

I read something to same effect here: https://bjango.com/articles/macexternaldisplays/ But then what's the consequence of Apple using 254 ppi rather than 220 ppi for the 14" & 16" MacBook Pros?

For HiDPI, a pixel is two points per dimension, which would make it 220 DPI.

Could you please explain the "two points per dimension"?

 

[theorist9]

...and won’t notice the difference between 4K and 5k once you stop examining it close up and get on with your work.

That's just your experience. It doesn't necessarily generalize. [Plus your phrasing is obnoxious, but you know that.] I'm OK with my 27" 4k (160 ppi), but only because I've stuck with High Sierra, which improves text sharpness with subpixel rendering (and is the last OS to offer it natively). Whenver I switch to my Catalina partition, which doesn't have it, I get fatigued by the lack of crisp text. The only way I've seen to get text looking crisp and sharp with current OS's is to view it on a Retina display.

 

[lam0218]

The Samsung is a non-starter for Mac users, because it’s only 4k @ 32 inches, which means it’s not a retina display. Basically useless for the Mac then.

Not really. At an optimal view distance in which human eye cannot distinguish those pixels, then it is retina experience. Retina is just a marketing term by Apple. The 5K on a 27 inch let you view it much closer and still enjoy the crisp sharp retina experience. But having 4K 32 inch, you can actually view it a bit further and get the same experience. And it also has micro hdmi so you use it on your ps5 or switch.

But I have bought Studio Display just because it is so beautiful built....haha but in fact this 4k 32 is a better option for most people who want a sleek design with much cheaper price.

 

[44267547]

For what it's worth, there's a rumor of a Dell UltraSharp 32" 6K with the new Black IPS technology

I’ll believe that when I see it.

Even if it was true, the price tag will be completely unattainable for the majority of consumers for ‘new tech’ at 6K. I don’t think consumers will start jumping from 4K strictly to 6K. Heck, 5K hasn’t even been fully adopted yet.

 

[egyhenger]

Why are these two even compared to each other? Both of them are called a monitor. Similarities end here…

 

[jakey rolling]

Even if it was true, the price tag will be completely unattainable for the majority of consumers for ‘new tech’ at 6K.

It would probably be within a few hundred dollars of the Apple Studio Display, and would be far less than the XDR. Just like those two displays, it would be geared towards prosumer workloads. "Attainable for the majority of consumers" is not really a relevant statistic when talking about displays of this calibre.

I don’t think consumers will start jumping from 4K strictly to 6K. Heck, 5K hasn’t even been fully adopted yet.

5k won't ever be fully adopted outside the Apple ecosystem. It is a resolution that is only useful on Mac workloads and is only relevant because of Apple's own gimping of their DPI scaling technology.

 

[44267547]

Why are these two even compared to each other?

I don’t even know why you would ask this question. It’s one of Apple‘s largest competitors, next to Dell and LG. It’s all mutually related and totally relevant.

And it should absolutely be compared, especially given that it is cheaper than Apple’s display, but it’s also a direct competitor in a sense 4K is probably suitable for the average consumer that’s not only saving money, but probably doesn’t need to take advantage of 5K, let alone the workload peripherals needed for that resolution.

I gave an example above that if you work in a marketing department/graphic designer where you specifically need accurate color renditions/full photo effect, it’s desirable to want the highest quality display possible. But to the average consumer that’s multitasking and for basic media, they wouldn’t need 5K.

 

[ricardobeat]

There are a ton of options at this 4k / 32" size, at much lower prices. The author says it's fine, but 4k @ 32" is not great for MacOS, the pixel pitch is way too large and will look pretty bad next to your macbook screen.

Since the camera is crap and audio is crap, I see zero reason you should choose this particular monitor here.

 

[EugW]

This^

But I totally agree with the comments saying that a 32-inches at 2160P (3840x2160) is not going to be a "Retina display" and you pretty much confirm this. Who sits 64 cm (25 inches)+ from a monitor? I just measured the distance I sit from my 2x 34-inch ultrawides and it's about 51 cm (20 inches) and that's my normal sitting position, I happen to peak closer at times as well. Apple's notion about desktop monitors having to be around ~210-220 PPI to be Retina feels about correct and if we use your calculator that should mean it's Retina as long as you stay beyond 41 cm (16 inches) and sitting anything closer than that seems unlikely for most scenarios.

I sit 25” from my monitor. Ergonomics guidelines suggest the minimum should be 20”, but I find 20” a touch too close.

 

[ksgant]

32"? I have a crick in my neck already. To be effective, for me at least, I'd have to move the monitor back a ways so I can take it all in, but then the effective size of it will be similar to my 27" monitor now.

For me at least, 27" is the "sweet spot".

 

[chucker23n1]

Rene Ritchie has talked about the Studio's webcam being identical to the one in the latest iPad, and that we should expect it to have the exact same performance once the software is fixed.

Well, close.

Yes, the camera is the same. But the parameters aren't: a desktop display is further from your face than a tablet's. Therefore, Center Stage needs to pick a smaller crop in order to make your face stand out. And a smaller crop means sensor weaknesses come out more.

So, really, to give the Studio Display a roughly equivalent performance as on an iPad Pro, they would've needed to give it a better sensor.

 

[EugW]

32"? I have a crick in my neck already. To be effective, for me at least, I'd have to move the monitor back a ways so I can take it all in, but then the effective size of it will be similar to my 27" monitor now.

For me at least, 27" is the "sweet spot".

Note that the 27” Studio Display is somewhat tall by 27” monitor standards. That may also be crick-in-the-neck inducing for some people, unless a vesa mount is used.

 

[mikebenton]

Clearly there is a lot of interest in this monitor....look at all the comments! I considered the purchase, especially since they were offering $100 back if you pre-ordered. However, I could never get confirmation it supported a VESA mount or that the camera could be recognized by MacOS or Windows. There's a small-print disclaimer that the camera only supports 'some apps', which I believe are already built-in. These two things caused me to hold out for something better.