San Francisco District Attorney Impressed by iOS 7's Activation Lock Feature

[rdlink]

Not true, without the shsh blobs, once iOS 6 is no longer signed you will not be able to restore to it.

But they don't take away the ability for someone to move to an older, but currently supported OS from a wiped device.

 

[Lord Hamsa]

Partially...yes...that is what I am saying. And what about all those free iPhones or the $99 iPhones? You claim they are all $200+.

That's not the price of the device, that's a subsidized price that's paid back over time as part of the phone bill. If you have to replace an iPhone without the subsidy because you have too long left on your contract otherwise, it's going to cost a lot more than $99.

 

[charlituna]

I feel like you much rather write "woot first post" but you know that won't fly.

I'm hoping this works well. It may not reduce theft but I'd rather know my stolen phone is useless to someone else if it is stolen.

Not really that useless since there are still parts that can be scraped out of it.

 

[inlinevolvo]

I agree in principle, but car alarms and coded keys actually prevent theft, this does not. This prevents somebody from using it after it's stolen, but it doesn't do anything to prevent the theft in the first place.

There are typically 2 types of criminals, the hardened criminal and the opportunistic criminal. The latter is someone who is inexperienced and would steal given a low risk situation. Just like a theft deterrent device deters a car jacker, the same would be for a phone deterrent. No law or policy is 100% effective, it just comes down to deterring people from breaking the law in the first place. The security function could one day be cracked, but it will deter a low life criminal from stealing the device since a locked phone does not hold the same resale value as an unlocked one.

 

[Geckotek]

But they don't take away the ability for someone to move to an older, but currently supported OS from a wiped device.

That's not the point. Once iOS 7 goes GM, iOS 6 will no longer be supported. You will not be able to revert back to it.

 

[charlituna]

I'm amazed at how Apple can do this.

It seems to override even DFU mode? So this must be very low level bootrom stuff here ...

It's on the server. Find my iPhone has to have a way tell multiple devices on an iCloud account apart so it is likely using UDID perhaps in concert with serial and IMEI/MEID. So when a device is first logged into iCloud that server reports a linkage to the activation system so if that combo ever tries to activate again, it asks for the credentials before sending the proper activation info

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I don't see how phone theft/loss is any kind of issue that warrants District Attorneys, governments, and phone manufacturers to somehow deter it.
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Sue happy country where folks demand the police etc do something or they will take it to court. The DA offices do stuff like this so they can say they are doing as requested so they don't get sued or, in the case of elected posts, get voted out of office

 

[inlinevolvo]

Government didn't tell the automakers to do something, they did it as a selling point. If Apple wants to make the changes based on a selling point that is fine. I'm not okay with government telling a company to fix a problem that is not their responsibility to fix.

There will still be plenty of thefts of iPhones, the parts are still worth money.

So isnt the lock feature by your own definition a selling feature that apple came up with? Last I checked there are no laws on the books to have such a system. Just because a politician asked for it, doesn't make it law. Not to mention, politicians, though rarely, do voice the concerns of their constituents. Perhaps this is just an example if the system working, the once a decade it does...

 

[SatManager]

I thought that it was interesting that he had praise of the iPhone but was unable to comment about the Samsung with LoJack. Or of the Microsoft phone. Makes you think they didn't do well during the testing.

 

[charlituna]

If it stops a few people from getting stabbed, shot or killed, then this is certainly a worth while addition!

Assuming these thieves are smart enough to know about the locking systems.

 

[spacehog371]

That's a very uninformed and ignorant statement. As long as you save the ipsw file you can go back to iOS 6 anytime from iOS 7, unless or until they update the baseband.

As I already said, the only reason you can downgrade right now is because it is a beta. Apple does not allow downgrading otherwise. I'm not sure why you think they would suddenly start allowing that.

 

[Technarchy]

That's the point! If you make something unusable, people won't steal them alleviating the need to steal them in the first place..!

It will still get stolen, and get tossed or sold for parts or to some unsuspecting fool.

 

[inlinevolvo]

Assuming these thieves are smart enough to know about the locking systems.

There will be a delay, but it should eventually get out there that the newer devices are protected and worth less aftermarket...

Apple was already proudly displaying this feature at WWDC. I'm sure they will advertise it once the software is available.

 

[ericinboston]

So you have no problem with spending the time and resources to assign 100 cops in a major metro area to a task force dedicated to tracking down muggers that steal smartphones, but you consider it a waste of time and resources to have an Attorney General make some noise for manufacturers to implement a system that will lessen the need to spend time and resources for 100 cops to be running around focused on this one issue?

Cops are part of government. The amount of time and resources cities are having to spend paying cops to deal with the smartphone theft issues is increasing every year.

Who said 100 cops? This thread is getting out of control with all the replies that, seemingly, are trying to put words in my mouth...as well as the replies that just exaggerate the entire situation.

Cops, in general, are NOT dealing with stolen phones...all the victim does is submit a Police Report about said stolen property. If the crime involves actual muggings or a gun to the victim's head, YES, that is much more serious.

There are 10,000 examples people can give here about a stolen-phone incident. But the point is that unless it's a serious offense (like the gun or mugging or home robbery), the stolen property (phone, laptop, purse, iPod, etc) just gets reported as stolen property and everyone moves on in life.

 

[iChrist]

.
Excuse me.

What is the black border around the second iPhone picture. Is it part of the UI? Or hardware? Really does not look good at all.

 

[foodog]

it's a good concept, just hope apple can execute well.

so many what if in this concept, like what if 1 device have 2 apple id's, what if the activation server is down, what if I want to sell the iphone to other person can I change the apple id easily (i'm guessing it is embed with firmware this feature), thats just some things on top of my head.

Before you sell it remove the device from "Find my iPhone" then it doesn't prompt you for the Apple ID.

 

[alent1234]

Who said 100 cops? This thread is getting out of control with all the replies that, seemingly, are trying to put words in my mouth...as well as the replies that just exaggerate the entire situation.

Cops, in general, are NOT dealing with stolen phones...all the victim does is submit a Police Report about said stolen property. If the crime involves actual muggings or a gun to the victim's head, YES, that is much more serious.

There are 10,000 examples people can give here about a stolen-phone incident. But the point is that unless it's a serious offense (like the gun or mugging or home robbery), the stolen property (phone, laptop, purse, iPod, etc) just gets reported as stolen property and everyone moves on in life.

so what is wrong with a system to make stealing phones less appealing? like it was done with auto thefts?

i mean if your car got stolen, you file a report and collect the insurance. no big deal

 

[bacaramac]

To achieve this, Apple would have to add a much much bigger battery to the iPhone, because every iPhone will turn itself off automatically after a few days when it runs out of power.

I'm thinking that once existing battery is dead, it's dead. No need for bigger battery.

Interesting ideas, but not likely to ever happen. Especially that last thought of jumping on unsecured wifi... think of this from Apple's standpoint. They open themselves up the the (almost certain) possibility of being sued for "unauthorized use" of unsecured wifi in order to track the stolen devices.

The Activation Lock is an elegant solution that Apple is implementing to help reduce the attractiveness of theft of iDevices. There is little to no additional infrastructure that Apple will have to implement beyond what they already have. Since every wiped iDevice has to contact the activation servers in order to be set up and get running, there is no need to create new infrastructure or, in fact, significantly change the user experience of users who are setting up new devices (or resetting up existing devices).

Tracking of a stolen device has security and privacy implications because of the need to do something like real-time tracking of all devices to accomplish it.

I think of this as being like "The Club" for your car - if you make it less attractive to steal iPhones, the thieves will go try to steal the Galaxy S4 or other android phones... until Samsung or Google come up with an improvement on their phones - at which point Apple will volley back with their next evolution of theft prevention.

I don't think there is a realistic way (i.e. relatively inexpensive and relatively effective) to recover a stolen smartphone... the best inexpensive option is something very much like what Apple is doing - reduce the attractiveness of stealing the phone by making the phone useless once it is stolen.

Let me clarify, the changes would only be software related. I agree on Wifi thing, but just a thought.

What I was thinking is Find My iPhone, not apple tracking device on their side automatically. My girl dropped her phone in the Safeway parking lot and we were able to track it to a super ghetto neighborhood, but we got it back from the guy. He didn't even know how to use it so never turned it off. We were lucky, but I was thinking if you prevent phone from being shut off via iOS software only, then you can track till your battery dies. Since they can't shut it off, maybe you could get an officer involved if you don't feel comfortable doing your own tracking and approaching house where phone is.

I had no issues getting my girl's phone, but 1am on a saturday night in a ghetto neighborhood is not for everyone. I wanted the damn phone back. Cost $800 to replace brand new iPhone 5 32gb.

 

[inlinevolvo]

Who said 100 cops? This thread is getting out of control with all the replies that, seemingly, are trying to put words in my mouth...as well as the replies that just exaggerate the entire situation.

Cops, in general, are NOT dealing with stolen phones...all the victim does is submit a Police Report about said stolen property. If the crime involves actual muggings or a gun to the victim's head, YES, that is much more serious.

There are 10,000 examples people can give here about a stolen-phone incident. But the point is that unless it's a serious offense (like the gun or mugging or home robbery), the stolen property (phone, laptop, purse, iPod, etc) just gets reported as stolen property and everyone moves on in life.

Ok, we get it. You don't like it. The example that was being made was simply one of cost. This is an example of something that can save tax payer money by enacting a common sense solution: deter theft. Your disdain for gov p

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Who said 100 cops? This thread is getting out of control with all the replies that, seemingly, are trying to put words in my mouth...as well as the replies that just exaggerate the entire situation.

Cops, in general, are NOT dealing with stolen phones...all the victim does is submit a Police Report about said stolen property. If the crime involves actual muggings or a gun to the victim's head, YES, that is much more serious.

There are 10,000 examples people can give here about a stolen-phone incident. But the point is that unless it's a serious offense (like the gun or mugging or home robbery), the stolen property (phone, laptop, purse, iPod, etc) just gets reported as stolen property and everyone moves on in life.

Ok, we get it. You don't like it. The example that was being made was simply one of cost. This is an example of something that can save tax payer money by enacting a common sense solution: deter theft. Your disdain for gov is obvious and that isn't the issue here.

 

[Kwill]

Forgot Apple ID or Password?

Fantabulous, albeit undoubtedly there will be ways around this.

Very welcome, nonetheless.

Built-in loophole.

 

[appleisking]

Who said 100 cops? This thread is getting out of control with all the replies that, seemingly, are trying to put words in my mouth...as well as the replies that just exaggerate the entire situation.

Cops, in general, are NOT dealing with stolen phones...all the victim does is submit a Police Report about said stolen property. If the crime involves actual muggings or a gun to the victim's head, YES, that is much more serious.

There are 10,000 examples people can give here about a stolen-phone incident. But the point is that unless it's a serious offense (like the gun or mugging or home robbery), the stolen property (phone, laptop, purse, iPod, etc) just gets reported as stolen property and everyone moves on in life.

You're beating a dead horse here. This doesn't cost anyone money, has the potential to lower the number of thefts. Also you're proving everyone's point with that cop example. They don't do enough about stolen phones. So we need a manufacturer's solution, and this problem has gotten serious enough for it. The murder rate in nyc dropped even more, but theft is on the rise. Why? Appeal of ios devices. Brick them, and you'll kill that appeal.

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Built-in loophole.

No, lol. Unless they can answer all of your security questions

 

[Kwill]

.
Excuse me.

What is the black border around the second iPhone picture. Is it part of the UI? Or hardware? Really does not look good at all.

A black border is also around the first image. It's just more apparent with the white background.

 

[sulpfiction]

I don't see how phone theft/loss is any kind of issue that warrants District Attorneys, governments, and phone manufacturers to somehow deter it.

1)Don't lose your phone
2)Smartphones are all software...regardless of how one "secures it", a true thief will know this and either he/she or the "black market" will easily unlock it. Period.
3)Laptops have been lost/stolen for decades and you don't see Apple/Wintel working to prevent that. What about iPods, cd-walkmans, watches, handbags, etc? Again, don't lose your stuff and/or leave it around where it has a fair chance of being stolen.
4)If your phone gets lost or stolen, big deal...you call your Carrier, they assure you won't be billed to data/calls it makes, you plunk down $$$ for another phone, and you move on. Sure, you may have lost your pictures or possibly opened up your email to a thief...but a)go change your password(s) on your email system super ASAP and b)life's tough...so you lost some pictures.
5)How about this scenario: You buy a used phone on eBay or from a friend and days later the seller reports the phone stolen just to be a jerk.
6)I understand that smartphones are relatively small so they fit in pockets...and could be misplaced or pick-pocketed or even just fall out due to their size...but so are wallets, jewelry, and cash. Again, don't lose the phone just like you try hard not to lose your wallet, jewelry, and cash.


This topic has been talked about for over a year and it always is made to sound like a band of criminals is following you down the street waiting to knock you unconscious and steal your phone. Not in the USA...and not in most civilized countries.

Wow..^this is just so wrong.

 

[appleisking]

Not really that useless since there are still parts that can be scraped out of it.

And spare parts are worth a lot less, thus lowering the desire to take the risk in stealing the device. How much are the spare parts realistically gonna be worth to the thief?

 

[sk1wbw]

Too bad nothing will prevent the actual theft. I don't see how software improvements will prevent theft. Nothing can be done about car theft, but I don't see these wacko politicians saying anything about this.

 

[terraphantm]

I agree in principle, but car alarms and coded keys actually prevent theft, this does not. This prevents somebody from using it after it's stolen, but it doesn't do anything to prevent the theft in the first place.

Not really. A car can still be towed and parted out. And unlike phones, cars are often worth more in pieces than whole.