San Francisco to Block Most Municipal Mac Purchases Following Apple's EPEAT Withdrawal

[coolfactor]

So Apple needs to be stuck in 'design/innovation' from years ago because EPEAT recyclers are having a hard time recycling 'newer' Apple products.

Sounds like EPEAT needs to move into 2010+ and realize things are changing and that they need to upgrade their recyclers.

All Apple needs to do is just say 'Hey, send your machine back to us and we'll recycle it'...

Apple does recycle Macs. That option exists today. I agree, EPEAT needs to be upgraded to support Apple's move towards smaller, more compact devices. Isn't that a better world anyway.... using less materials per device?

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It does sadden me to hear the stereotypical "We're American and rich and should be able to do as we dam well like, and sod the environment" type of comments a few on these forums are saying.

Suggestion - if you're going to make a judgement against a country, be brave enough to display your own country in your profile.

 

[autrefois]

If the batteries cannot be removed, then how can Apple sell battery replacements?

http://www.apple.com/support/macbookpro/service/battery/

In my post, I said the batteries cannot be safely removed. From iFixit

Electronics recyclers need to take out hazardous components such as batteries before sending computers through their shredders, because batteries can catch fire when punctured.

That’s why it’s such a problem when manufacturers glue batteries into place with industrial-strength adhesive. When we originally tore down the Retina MacBook Pro, we could not separate the battery from the upper case. The next day, after a lot of elbow grease, we were finally able to get them apart—but in the process punctured the battery, leaking hazardous goo all over.

I'm not saying that Apple doesn't have some way to remove the battery, just that from reports I've seen it is not safely or easily done as compared to other laptop batteries. I don't repair computers, but I have yet to see anyone who does say that this will be a good move in terms of reparability. (Not to mention Apple is charging $199 to replace the battery.)

As are you.

You explained a bunch of stuff to me that didn't contradict my post or my point. Everything you said fits with what I said. And yet you're acting like you disagree with me for some reason.

Not sure what you're trying to say to me.

So when you said, "I sure hope the San Francisco government blocks all tablet and smartphone purchases too, since they wouldn't be able to pass EPEAT rules," you were being serious? It seemed to me the point of your post was to sarcastically mock San Francisco for dropping Macs while keeping other non-compliant EPEAT devices in other categories (that "sound different when you say them") for which no EPEAT standards exist.

If you were being serious, then I'm glad to hear we agree that San Francisco's decision made sense. Does this mean you not only applaud San Francisco for their decision to eliminate MacBook Pros until they are again EPEAT compliant (or better), but also further call on SF to adopt more eco-friendly smartphones and tablets?

 

[kas23]

Not really relevant. Apple would have NO screws on their products if they could, and they're getting damn close.

Not really revelant. Apple DOES have screws in their laptops, so why not just use standard head screws?

 

[jmgregory1]

Thank you, this is what I was looking for. I was not asking to be a SA... was asking since there are quite a few IT person(s) here.

Thanks

The above note sounds more like a tech person justifying his job and providing himself with job security.

And as Apple does move further into enterprise, whether it's by Apple's doing or enterprise working to implement iPad/iPhone apps into their systems, things will change. That's the thing that people in the pc world seem to forget. Change happens. Just like those that complained when Apple ditched the floppy. I'm already hearing the screams from those complaining about lack of cd/dvd drives or how it makes no sense to switch from hdd to ssd.

This is where Apple just flat out embarrasses every other pc maker. They push forward even when an advancement seems to be hard to swallow.

And the EPEAT crap is just that - crap. Apple's moved forward, the certification has not. And how about looking at the real world life span of an Apple computer compared to a pc. I went through 3 pc's at work in the time that I had one Mac Pro at home - and the Pro is still going after 6 years. No, it didn't run the crappy MS program the company was using - thank god. Tech people need to raise their expectations for both software and hardware or Apple is going to eat their lunch.

 

[unplugme71]

Not really revelant. Apple DOES have screws in their laptops, so why not just use standard head screws?

because its easier to remove. customer could break it. apple refuses warranty. customer complains.

or customer removes part, and doesn't environmentally dispose of it properly.

 

[mex4eric]

So Apple needs to be stuck in 'design/innovation' from years ago because EPEAT recyclers are having a hard time recycling 'newer' Apple products.

Sounds like EPEAT needs to move into 2010+ and realize things are changing and that they need to upgrade their recyclers.

All Apple needs to do is just say 'Hey, send your machine back to us and we'll recycle it'...

Amen! Letting unimaginative EPEAT bureaucrats run the purchasing departments of unimaginative government agencies sounds just peachy.

 

[samcraig]

That's the thing that people in the pc world seem to forget. Change happens. Just like those that complained when Apple ditched the floppy. I'm already hearing the screams from those complaining about lack of cd/dvd drives or how it makes no sense to switch from hdd to ssd.

This is where Apple just flat out embarrasses every other pc maker. They push forward even when an advancement seems to be hard to swallow.

Ironic - since most Apple fans base everything Microsoft does on the past (and nearly any competitor) and forgets that things can and do change.

I agree that things change. For everyone and everything. And everyone here would be better for it to remember that it applies all around.

 

[Idefix]

It's funny, but nobody's asking why Apple would pull already certified computers out of ePEAT? Why not just leave those computers as is?

The only logical reason I can think of is that Apple's projected new lineup this fall would not qualify for ePEAT, which would lead to an enormous contrast, followed by enormous bad publicity about every single new model.

Apple doesn't like bad publicity of that sort.

Can anybody think of a good reason? Would the unrepairable Ret-MBP qualify for ePEAT?

Apple is moving towards treating new laptops as if they were toasters (expensive toasters). If anything goes wrong under warranty on your RMBP, Apple isn't going to fix it--Apple's going to give you a refurbished RMBP.

Toaster in, refurbished toaster out, bad toaster sent back to wherever.

 

[samcraig]

Amen! Letting unimaginative EPEAT bureaucrats run the purchasing departments of unimaginative government agencies sounds just peachy.

You have it backwards. EPEAT sets a standard and they don't force any company to adhere to it NOR do they enforce who chooses to use them as a standard.

Why is this so hard for some people to understand?

 

[pimentoLoaf]

Time for EPEAT to grow up and evolve their philosophy. Why should Apple (or any other company) follow someone else's design concepts just because it exists? Technology moves on, but EPEAT wants to stifle innovation over fear.

 

[WestonHarvey1]

Not really revelant. Apple DOES have screws in their laptops, so why not just use standard head screws?

1. Obviously they would prefer most people have upgrades done by Apple
2. The pentalobular (not torx) screws are much prettier than the antiquated Phillips heads, and Apple cares about how the mostly unseen parts of their products look

You can actually find the screwdrivers now, by the way.

 

[samcraig]

EPEAT wants to stifle innovation over fear.

Are you serious? Where do you find evidence of the first part of your assertion let alone the latter?

 

[steveh]

Given that its very clear that Apple no longer wish to be in the desktop/laptop market I dont see this as a problem for them.

Riiiiiiight.

That explains the introduction of the rMBP and updated MBA line.

 

[scfc]

Well done SF

I'm long time Apple user, but I do not agree with this move by Apple.
These changes are not in the intrest of the consumer, yes us Apples customers. And not in the intrest of the environment.

As a world leading company Apple has the responsibility to lead the corporate world and that means substanability and social responsibility.

Apple pick up the glove and lead the way to a beter future for one and all.

Oh yes and that may also mean a few doors in the garden wall

 

[thejadedmonkey]

Thank you, this is what I was looking for. I was not asking to be a SA... was asking since there are quite a few IT person(s) here.

Thanks

No, not a problem at all. It was a great question, and I have time right now

 

[Xtremehkr]

I'm long time Apple user, but I do not agree with this move by Apple.
These changes are not in the intrest of the consumer, yes us Apples customers. And not in the intrest of the environment.

As a world leading company Apple has the responsibility to lead the corporate world and that means substanability and social responsibility.

Apple pick up the glove and lead the way to a beter future for one and all.

Oh yes and that may also mean a few doors in the garden wall

Apple will recycle your Apple product free of charge and even give you a gift card if there is any value remaining at the time you turn it in. Is that not sufficient?

http://www.apple.com/recycling/gift-card/

 

[autrefois]

So iFixit is THE authority on what can/cannot be recycled?

I have not seen anyone contradict what they or EPEAT are saying about this. If there are professionals/experts out there who think that the retina MBP is as easy to recycle as the previous design of MBP, or that having the battery glued doesn't affect how easy or safe it is to replace, then I'm open to changing my mind. But intuitively, this would not seem to be the case.

 

[chiefsilverback]

This^

This story is BS. I was hoping that the "green" trend ended in 2009. I guess people still follow anything labeled "green". I saw an ad that said "Check out these green products!!" and showed me DVDs and random stuff.

My favourite is Dasani pushing it's eco-friendly bottle and even worse that they sponsored the HGTV 'Green' Home. Surely the 'greenest' option is drinking the perfectly safe water that comes from the tap?

On topic, Apple seems to be doing plenty in the green space and I think it bodes well for the future that they're looking to create better devices that aren't hampered by legacy rules...

 

[ristlin]

EPEAT Certification: Disassembly using caveman tools.

 

[regnoc]

Cost of ownership

Can someone please tell me why EPEAT is so important for San Francisco?

Given that Apple hardware costs 3x as much as the Windows equivalent, I'm more surprised that a tax payer funded agency could even afford to buy Apple products.

Cost of ownership is still huge. In the school systems when Apples discounts were no longer as steep as the PC price drops and they started moving to PCs. Their cost of ownership went through the roof.

 

[hobo.hopkins]

That's their right, however silly it might be on its face. It isn't as though Apple's products are any less environmentally-friendly than others; in fact based upon the longevity of Apple's computers they are arguably more friendly.

 

[jmgregory1]

Ironic - since most Apple fans base everything Microsoft does on the past (and nearly any competitor) and forgets that things can and do change.

I agree that things change. For everyone and everything. And everyone here would be better for it to remember that it applies all around.

I'm basing my comment about MS and lack of change based upon the FACT that the company I used to work for still uses a MS system that didn't work 7 years ago and still today looks and doesn't work the same as it was 7 years ago when it was installed (I know because my wife still works for the company).

Yes, competitors to Apple do change - once they figure out they need to do something to compete against Apple. And the old days of X brand pc maker sells tens of millions more computers than Apple does has proven to be one, if not the most, stupid metrics to judge success. You can take sides with any pc company you want, knowing that they're making less money, less profit, on the tens of millions of pc's they're selling compared to Apple.

I look up to Apple not because I'm some i-fanatic, but as a business owner I recognize that my company should be operating in the same manner. We have no sacred cows and are constantly pushing forward, even though that forces us to spend more time explaining our unique product and process. It brings value to the company - something no EPEAT friendly $399 Dell laptop will ever do.

 

[drudus]

Back when Leopard came out, there was a bug in how it handled file sharing. This bug would prevent PC's from showing up in the sidebar.

My company needed a computer, and the person requested a mac. So we bought a mac mini. I Set it up, and couldn't see any PC's unless we typed the IP address in manually using.. cmd+K I believe?

I called Apple up. "Yes it's a bug, no there's no known ETA until its fixed. Just install Tiger on the mac until the bug's been fixed."

Apple probably didn't see it as a critical bug since you can really easily save the server as address favourite. Are your users too dumb to select from a list?
You can also set it to automatically mount on login so no one ever needs to know how to enter an IP address.
If you are using a corporate DNS server you should be using the fully qualified name anyway.

Sure minor workarounds are annoying, but ditching an entire OS because IT staff don't know how (or don't want to even try) to support it isn't really Apple's fault.

 

[sseaton1971]

Given that its very clear that Apple no longer wish to be in the desktop/laptop market I dont see this as a problem for them. All they care about now is iOS and the AppStore. Everything else is secondary.

As far as Apple is concerned, they are only maintaining OS X to allow for development of iOS apps.

Edit Guessing the downvotes are from people who dont want to believe that this is happening. Open your damn eyes...

Yeah, Apple is keeping OS X going and spending money on R&D and manufacturing of desktops and laptops just for iOS development. Give me a freakin' break! Apple still makes money off of their traditional computing devices, and it is a mature market. iOS devices are still in a very new product category. Apple will likely continue to see huge profits in this area, but there are a lot of other companies coming into play here. Why would Apple want to put all of its eggs in one basket? I think Apple will continue OS X and traditional computers for the foreseeable future.

 

[Kaibelf]

Which states are those? The ones that hate their environment?

Are you saying that it's less environmentally conscious for Apple to find way to use less machined parts like screws rather than a dab of some adhesive? The only reason they had to withdraw was because they don't make their machines out of enough removable parts. Frankly, I'd trust Apple to recycle the serviced parts more than some other person who wants to tear a machine open, replace a component, and then throw the replaced part away in the trash.