Sandy Bridge iMacs Due Next Week

[TheUndertow]

Again, the numbers are against you. History has no meaning in this case, since the uptake of Blu-ray is quite spectacular, especially considering it had to first defeat HD-DVD (which as in any media format war, can diminish the initial uptake of a technology).

Blu-ray has more penetration than even DVD had at this point in its history.

End of story. Your only basis is Steve's comment.



Rest of your post is unsupported by current sales figures of Blu-ray unfortunately.

As for this last comment, Linux has been doing it for years. Of course, you could also install Linux over the Internet or a local network back in the 90s. Apple is kind of late to the game on this...

Though I don't see them selling you Flash media with an OS on it. Costs are prohibitive. They would just sell you a download you copy to a flash media you already have, like the Linux distributions do. Makes much more economic sense.

I have to disagree.

The argument is whether there NEEDS to be a form of physical media...we may not be there yet, but I'm pretty sure Microsoft AND Apple have both stated they believe the future is with Direct Download and/or NOT with Blu-Ray.

Netflix and Blockbuster would agree.

As to how they deliver an OS........they'll probably start with offering the new form with the old, track the progress towards phasing out OLD technology (yes, even Blu-Ray is old at this point), and making an informed decision from there.


I may pick up an iMac if its more of an update than just SB and TB (like they did with the MBP)...please!

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

I have to disagree.

The argument is whether there NEEDS to be a form of physical media...we may not be there yet, but I'm pretty sure Microsoft AND Apple have both stated they believe the future is with Direct Download and/or NOT with Blu-Ray.

Netflix and Blockbuster would agree.

As to how they deliver an OS........they'll probably start with offering the new form with the old, track the progress towards phasing out OLD technology (yes, even Blu-Ray is old at this point), and making an informed decision from there.


I may pick up an iMac if its more of an update than just SB and TB (like they did with the MBP)...please!

I believe a precursor to support your argument is that presently provides Mac OS X install/restore on a flash drive. It is only time till the MBP/MB/MM/iMac get the same treatment. I believe the MP will be the last in the group to transition.

 

[LarryC]

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Gnasher729, thank you for taking the time to explain that to me. I do appreciate it.

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

Maybe not, but how can you see something that's growing year after year, and beating the records established by its predecessor as dead ?

I think you're quite wrong and I'm right. At least, I have the numbers to support my argument. All you have is Steve's word.

One argument that might not have been considered is the amount of data required to download a 720p/1080p movie from an online movie store. I believe this is hindering the digital copy model only and still has people buying Blu-Ray hard copy discs. People simply will not wait for hours or days (considering they internet connection limitations at present) to watch a HD movie. Once we have fibre at a cost effective price to deliver to the masses, Optical Discs has seen its end. However both your arguments are correct, its a matter or variables of timing and infrastructure at the moment.

 

[50548]

Again, the numbers are against you. History has no meaning in this case, since the uptake of Blu-ray is quite spectacular, especially considering it had to first defeat HD-DVD (which as in any media format war, can diminish the initial uptake of a technology).

Blu-ray has more penetration than even DVD had at this point in its history.

End of story. Your only basis is Steve's comment.

Absolute BS, as I have provided in the past several links and arguments that demonstrate that the BR uptake is nothing out of the ordinary, considering the advent of HD TVs and the fact that those statistics rely on NEW buyers of equipment. You also forget the fact that DVD took longer for obvious reasons related to average household revenue, economies of scale and the advent of large-screen TVs.

But even then, the added value of BR over DVD cannot be compared to the advantages of DVD over VHS back in the day. And you can go to ANY electronics store around the world, where you're gonna see at least 10x more content available for DVDs than for BRs, which continue to be relegated to a niche demand from new buyers.

Even with its pyrrhic victory over HD-DVD, BR IS moribund and nobody can deny that; it's MORE expensive than DVDs, it is MARGINALLY better than DVDs when used in medium-sized HD screens (the vast majority of TVs out there), and it is WAY worse than DVDs in terms of abusive DRM technologies that do not allow people to backup and/or move their legally-bought content to other devices (I know, the bizarre DMCA-driven US law loves to talk about "stealing", even when most other jurisdictions do NOT consider private copying as illegal).

I for one am happy that Apple is not including that EOL'd format in Macs; and what for anyway? To watch a 1080p movie on a 24"/27" screen? Gimme a break.

 

[iSayuSay]

My prediction for 2011 iMac´s geekbench score:

21.5¨ Base model iMac can score from 7000 - 8000
27¨ Top end model iMac can score around 13000-14000

Just what i thought ... i can´t think clear enough .. just release the iMac already .. please

 

[Mr. Retrofire]

And mark my word. It won't be long before someone (probably Apple) releases an OS install on flash media.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/20/new-macbook-airs-come-with-software-reinstall-usb-drive/

 

[Chupa Chupa]

while BR is currently propping up DVD technology, it's kind of like being the most popular buggy whip.

That is a bit of hyperbole. The horse & buggy faded because the motor car was affordable and accessible. While downloadable movies are affordable, they are not always accessible because one must have at least consistent 3+mbps broadband to make it practical. That kind of broadband penetration isn't even 50% in the U.S., even in suburbs of major cities.

Also many people like to watch on a large screen with friends and family, not hunched over a small computer screen. While there are TVs that have internet access it's install base is small.

OTOH, Blu-Ray players can be had for under $100 now and outfits like RedBox are starting to stock kiosks with Blu-Ray movies. So while hard media is likely on it's way out, there are still many miles to travel before we get it to the dump.

 

[KnightWRX]

http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/20/new-macbook-airs-come-with-software-reinstall-usb-drive/

People sure are jealous of that little thumb drive.

But, what most folks fail to realise :

1- Flash memory is expensive. It made sense for the MBA because of the lack of an optical drive. With all other Macs having optical drives (even the latest and greatest MBP that just got refreshed), Flash media sold at retail with the new OS X makes little sense. It's costlier and longer to duplicate than pressed optical media.

2- To make it worthwhile even for the MBA, Apple had to really cheap out on that little Thumb drive. Sure it "looks good" straight out of the box, but it's quite flimsy and gets ruined the first time you try to use it, not to mention all subsequent times.

Selling these things at retail in place of DVDs makes no sense cost wise and makes no sense in light of the current Mac line-up, which is what people buying a retail copy of the OS have (because future Macs will require their own customized "recovery" media to have up-to-date drivers for their hardware).

Anyway, I'd much rather see Apple move towards downloaded OS releases. It's how I've been installing my OSes for the last decade and more (being a Linux user until I switched to Macs).

OTOH, Blu-Ray players can be had for under $100 now and outfits like RedBox are starting to stock kiosks with Blu-Ray movies. So while hard media is likely on it's way out, there are still many miles to travel before we get it to the dump.

That's the problem with "skating to where the puck is going to be". You end up never actually touching the puck and getting to play with it.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

That's the problem with "skating to where the puck is going to be". You end up never actually touching the puck and getting to play with it.

If Apple never gets the puck I'd not sure how they keep scoring with new products their competitors can't match until Apple is ready to move on to the next one.

 

[silentnite]

Not really interested in an imac but bringing back a 24" option could change my mind. What are the chances

 

[Hellhammer]

That is a bit of hyperbole. The horse & buggy faded because the motor car was affordable and accessible. While downloadable movies are affordable, they are not always accessible because one must have at least consistent 3+mbps broadband to make it practical. That kind of broadband penetration isn't even 50% in the U.S., even in suburbs of major cities.

Blu-Ray can offer up to 54Mb/s so 3Mb/s film is nowhere near the quality of a real BR. 10-15Mb/s is what you need for good quality 1080p.

Also many people like to watch on a large screen with friends and family, not hunched over a small computer screen. While there are TVs that have internet access it's install base is small.

That is why there are devices like AppleTV and such. Any TV can be turned into an internet TV with one of those. The cost is similar to the cost of a BR player. Nothing is stopping you from connecting your computer to your TV either.

1- Flash memory is expensive. It made sense for the MBA because of the lack of an optical drive. With all other Macs having optical drives (even the latest and greatest MBP that just got refreshed), Flash media sold at retail with the new OS X makes little sense. It's costlier and longer to duplicate than pressed optical media.

Anyway, I'd much rather see Apple move towards downloaded OS releases. It's how I've been installing my OSes for the last decade and more (being a Linux user until I switched to Macs).

I can see Apple offering OS X and other software in USB flash drives if they are available as a download too. That way Apple can charge the premium for the physical copy without forcing people to pay the extra.

 

[Shanpdx]

My prediction for 2011 iMac´s geekbench score:

21.5¨ Base model iMac can score from 7000 - 8000
27¨ Top end model iMac can score around 13000-14000

Just what i thought ... i can´t think clear enough .. just release the iMac already .. please

yes turbo boost will keep that going...

question the base model i3 or i5? if apple goes with i5 like 13" MBP i5 $1199, then sure better CPU performance

 

[KnightWRX]

That is why there are devices like AppleTV and such. Any TV can be turned into an internet TV with one of those. The cost is similar to the cost of a BR player. Nothing is stopping you from connecting your computer to your TV either.

Device consolidation has been a trend in the last few years. It's why most Blu-ray player are also DLNA certified and can play content off your network or stream Netflix and other such services directly.

Why waste money on specialized box when you can get the same functionality and Blu-ray as icing ?

People fail to realise that streaming is replacing movie rentals, it's not making in-roads into movie purchasing as much. I know I haven't rented a movie at Blockbusters in years, I use the VOD service provided by my cable company to stream it instead. But the movies I buy are on Blu-ray.

There's room for both technologies to co-exist and it's really sad to see some people making it into an "all-or-nothing" debate where one of these techs must disappear for the other to succeed.

I can see Apple offering OS X and other software in USB flash drives if they are available as a download too. That way Apple can charge the premium for the physical copy without forcing people to pay the extra.

Or they could offer it as a download and still sell it on DVD at a premium, pocketing all the savings from not using the expensive Flash media.

Let's face it, what advantage is there to shipping OS X Lion on USB at this point ? Aside from a fetish some Mac users have from owning an Apple branded USB Thumb drive...

 

[BreuerEditor]

2009 or 2011

Curious as to what people's opinions are.

I have a 2009 i7 27" iMac that I'm debating selling to upgrade to the 2011 27".

Main reasons is to have OWC put in an eSata port so I can get use of my eSata drives, also have the capability of Thunderbolt for future externals, and of course, upgraded processors, RAM, and video card.

The question is, will it be worth it to upgrade only 2 models ahead?

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

Or they could offer it as a download and still sell it on DVD at a premium, pocketing all the savings from not using the expensive Flash media.

Let's face it, what advantage is there to shipping OS X Lion on USB at this point ? Aside from a fetish some Mac users have from owning an Apple branded USB Thumb drive...

What if and this is a big what if, you get the USB media with OS Lion and if your connection speed at home is not as fast to download and future updates or upgrades of Mac OS X, you can simply visit a Mac OS kiosk and flash that USB to the newest version. With DVD you cannot rewrite to it the way OS X is sold. So why not think forward and all the flexibility for those who do not have a 3+ meg connection at home to load it at a kiosk.

Sure updates are great via software updater, however some people are limited to bandwidth and caps.

Just a thought I am putting out there.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Blu-Ray can offer up to 54Mb/s so 3Mb/s film is nowhere near the quality of a real BR. 10-15Mb/s is what you need for good quality 1080p.

I probably wasn't clear. When it wrote 3+Mbps was needed for online video I meant to download them, not stream. But at any rate I was not downplaying Blu-Rays usefulness, but the opposite.

Curious as to what people's opinions are.

I have a 2009 i7 27" iMac that I'm debating selling to upgrade to the 2011 27".

Main reasons is to have OWC put in an eSata port so I can get use of my eSata drives, also have the capability of Thunderbolt for future externals, and of course, upgraded processors, RAM, and video card.

The question is, will it be worth it to upgrade only 2 models ahead?

Sell now while your iMac is still worth money. Once TB latches on the desirability for non-TB machine is going to crumble similar to how NuBus machines did after Apple adopted PCI and Mac PCI cards started rolling out.

 

[KnightWRX]

What if and this is a big what if, you get the USB media with OS Lion and if your connection speed at home is not as fast to download and future updates or upgrades of Mac OS X, you can simply visit a Mac OS kiosk and flash that USB to the newest version. With DVD you cannot rewrite to it the way OS X is sold. So why not think forward and all the flexibility for those who do not have a 3+ meg connection at home to load it at a kiosk.

Sure updates are great via software updater, however some people are limited to bandwidth and caps.

Just a thought I am putting out there.

What's preventing them from doing that today, and have the customer "bring-their-own" Flash thumb drive ?

Providing updates in the way you suggest has little to do with mass duplication and costs of selling an OS on USB flash thumb drives.

 

[Hellhammer]

Device consolidation has been a trend in the last few years. It's why most Blu-ray player are also DLNA certified and can play content off your network or stream Netflix and other such services directly.

Why waste money on specialized box when you can get the same functionality and Blu-ray as icing ?

I forgot those but you are right, those are even better.

People fail to realise that streaming is replacing movie rentals, it's not making in-roads into movie purchasing as much. I know I haven't rented a movie at Blockbusters in years, I use the VOD service provided by my cable company to stream it instead. But the movies I buy are on Blu-ray.

There's room for both technologies to co-exist and it's really sad to see some people making it into an "all-or-nothing" debate where one of these techs must disappear for the other to succeed.

Definitely. Rental services have existed for decades so if movie purchasing was about to die, it would have died years ago.

Or they could offer it as a download and still sell it on DVD at a premium, pocketing all the savings from not using the expensive Flash media.

Let's face it, what advantage is there to shipping OS X Lion on USB at this point ? Aside from a fetish some Mac users have from owning an Apple branded USB Thumb drive...

IF the removal of SuperDrive is in Apple's mind, then taking the first step by moving the software away from DVD makes some sense. If not, then it doesn't make much sense.

What if and this is a big what if, you get the USB media with OS Lion and if your connection speed at home is not as fast to download and future updates or upgrades of Mac OS X, you can simply visit a Mac OS kiosk and flash that USB to the newest version. With DVD you cannot rewrite to it the way OS X is sold. So why not think forward and all the flexibility for those who do not have a 3+ meg connection at home to load it at a kiosk.

Sure updates are great via software updater, however some people are limited to bandwidth and caps.

Just a thought I am putting out there.

I doubt Apple would flash the drive for free. OS updates aren't usually that big. Even 1Mb/s connection would download a 1GB update in not much more than two hours. You can leave it overnight if you have very slow connection.

 

[Hexley]

Why can't Sandy Bridge not have USB 3.0?

 

[KnightWRX]

IF the removal of SuperDrive is in Apple's mind, then taking the first step by moving the software away from DVD makes some sense. If not, then it doesn't make much sense.

Actually, if Apple had removed the superdrive in the MBP, I'd agree. OS X retail copies are usually for older Macs, newer ones shipping with the new OS and its own recovery media with the new drivers required to make it function.

As such, when one speculates about OS X retail copies, one should look at the existing line-up, not the future line-up.

To me, that screams "DVD!".

 

[Shanpdx]

MB/MBP keeps resale value compared to iMac

with turbo boost in CPU and SSD in Hard drive, laptop and desktop performance gap is closing slowly

eventually death to desktop and iMac as well.

 

[fabianjj]

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Why do you compare Blu-ray, an up and coming new technology, to legacy ports again ? I think this is part of the problem you are personally facing. Blu-ray is on the rise, not on a decline. It's not dead at all.

That's the crux of the issue. I see Blu-ray as dead, and therefore not worth supporting. You don't. Neither is right, and neither of us is likely to change the opinion of the other.

But how much harm will it do to add blu-ray support to the Mac, if it's gonna have an optical drive anyway?

Same goes to usb3, all the macs have usb2 ports why not make them the latest version to support higher speeds for those that have the equipment?

It doesn't really add up. It's not the same as sticking a huge VGA-port on there because most people still have VGA connections on their displays.


If that was really apples reasoning, they would have gotten rid of the optical drive and replaced the USB-ports with a couple of TB-ports.

 

[bassanoclapper]

I'm looking at getting a new iMac fingers crossed for ...

- Space for 2 HDD (I know, again it would be nice for two internal drives)
...

There's the BTO option of HDD + SSD but it doesn't come cheap
This is what I'm thinking of going for

 

[Cougarcat]

.

Or they could offer it as a download and still sell it on DVD at a premium, pocketing all the savings from not using the expensive Flash media.

Let's face it, what advantage is there to shipping OS X Lion on USB at this point ? Aside from a fetish some Mac users have from owning an Apple branded USB Thumb drive...

DVD-based installations are dog-slow. I will never upgrade that way again.

Downloads are great, but I would end up restoring it on an external anyway, so I can install it on multiple macs, and I have something to boot with in emergencies. I'd much rather pay a premium for a flash drive than use up space on an external. Yes, I could buy my own flash drive for this purpose, but you're right...an Apple-branded drive would be cool.

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But how much harm will it do to add blu-ray support to the Mac, if it's gonna have an optical drive anyway?

Same goes to usb3, all the macs have usb2 ports why not make them the latest version to support higher speeds for those that have the equipment?.

Apple would have to add a bunch of DRM support to OS X, and I don't think they want to deal with that. It's a shame because I'd love to not have to dual boot to watch my blurays.

USB3 will cone when intel ships with it in Ivy Bridge next year.