Sandy Bridge iMacs Due Next Week

[AidenShaw]

Bitrates first, then pixels

Pretty much this. A lot of people are speculating that Apple TV and other DD methods will kill blu ray, but i have to respectfully disagree. While Apple TV's 720p streaming is nice, blu ray still looks noticeably better. Until itunes is able to provide 1080p streaming, Blu ray will always have a place.

Itunes 1080p will also look like crap unless Apple increases the bitrates significantly (and far beyond what most of the internet infrastructure can support).

Better that Apple first increase the bitrates of 720p material to at least DVD bitrates, then move to 1080p when the bitrate can be at least doubled again.

I've found that when compressing video for the web or weak devices, it's often better to reduce the picture size if you're trying for small file sizes.

For example, at low bitrates a 320x240 video double-sized to 640x480 often looks better than a 640x480 video encoded at the same bitrate. The 2X scaling can introduce fewer artifacts than compressing 4X as many pixels into the same stream. (It's not unusual for an embedded video on a website to do this - the HTML for the player window will force a 2X stretch from a smaller input stream.)

 

[KnightWRX]

DVD-based installations are dog-slow. I will never upgrade that way again.

Then you sure won't like installation from a network based media.

Snow Leopard took 45 minutes on my old Macbook for the DVD upgrade process. I don't see what's wrong with that.

 

[sth]

They can coexist and actually they coexist as we speak There will be people who prefer buying the physical copy instead, just like there is when it comes to CDs. You can get great quality from online stores and usually they are even cheaper but yet there are people who buy the physical copy.

Yes, I'm one of those people. I only buy online music when it is:
- Lossless @ 44khz/16bit minimum
- DRM-free

So far, not much is offered like this, so I continue to buy CDs. The times it actually is offered (like some Nine Inch Nails releases, for example), they sometimes even offer better-than-CD quality and have different artwork for every track. I want to see more offerings like that, I'd even be willing to pay a slight premium over the CD version in that case.

With DVD and BluRay, it's a different thing. I do buy DVDs because I can rip them with a single click and then watch them on any device I want. Since the same can't be said for BluRay, I don't care much about it. For HD content, BluRay may have the best image quality, but since I don't have a real home cinema, I'm fine with the cheaper-but-slightly-worse-quality-and-equally-drm-infested downloadable HD content, even the 720p versions currently offered by iTunes.

However, that's just my point of view, which I don't think reflects the general public, especially when it comes to audio.

 

[Cougarcat]

Snow Leopard took 45 minutes on my old Macbook for the DVD upgrade process. I don't see what's wrong with that.

Oh, it's not terrible. But flash drives take about 20 minutes. It adds up if you have multiple macs.

 

[KnightWRX]

Oh, it's not terrible. But flash drives take about 20 minutes. It adds up if you have multiple macs.

It's a good thing it's mostly automated then and you can just get it going and go do something else.

It's not like you have to sit there and change out floppies or anything (how many Floppies for NT 4.0 ? I know Visual Basic 4.0 had 14 and took over 2 hours to install, just sitting there waiting for the "Insert disk #XX")

 

[Thunderhawks]

It's a good thing it's mostly automated then and you can just get it going and go do something else.

It's not like you have to sit there and change out floppies or anything (how many Floppies for NT 4.0 ? I know Visual Basic 4.0 had 14 and took over 2 hours to install, just sitting there waiting for the "Insert disk #XX")

What are floppies?

 

[AidenShaw]

how many Floppies for NT 4.0 ?

If depends if you're installing NT4 on a PowerPC system, an Alpha system, a MIPS system, or an x86 system.

ps: Usually it takes 0, 1, 3 or 4 floppies to install NT4.

• 0 - your motherboard supports CD-ROM booting, and the mass storage controller for your system drive is already on the NT4 CD-ROM
• 1 - your motherboard supports CD-ROM booting, but you need to supply a driver for your mass storage controller during installation
• 3 - your motherboard does not support CD-ROM booting, and the mass storage controller for your system drive is already on the NT4 CD-ROM
• 4 - your motherboard does not support CD-ROM booting, and you need to supply a driver for your mass storage controller during installation

 

[gorcman]

Also, one of the biggest cons hindering itunes for HD movies and TVs is the selection. I know this probably has to do with negotiations with the movie studios and such, but not all movies and TV shows are available for purchase in HD. Just now, i tried buying Harry Potter in HD, but its not available. Maybe in time, Apple will be able to get movie studios to release all movies in HD on day 1, but so far thats not happening.

 

[AidenShaw]

Maybe in time, Apple will be able to get movie studios to release all movies in HD on day 1, but so far thats not happening.

Or, perhaps studios (and directors) are balking at the idea of downgrading the movies from BD bitrate 1080p cuts to sub-DVD bitrate 720p Itunes crap?

 

[MTD's Mac]

Tell that to ISPs. Your instant streaming won't be very instant unless you have a fast connection. Let alone what happens if you have limited amount of bandwidth.

This is a good practical point. But instant streaming is a marketing term, and I'm using it as such, not to make any network speed claims. How long does it take to go out and buy a Blu-ray disc at the store?

At this point, anybody buying physical media is behind the curve. There's nothing wrong with being behind the curve, but it's important to know where you stand to avoid surprises, like yet another new iMac that doesn't have Blu-ray.

 

[Piggie]

Also, one of the biggest cons hindering itunes for HD movies and TVs is the selection. I know this probably has to do with negotiations with the movie studios and such, but not all movies and TV shows are available for purchase in HD. Just now, i tried buying Harry Potter in HD, but its not available. Maybe in time, Apple will be able to get movie studios to release all movies in HD on day 1, but so far thats not happening.

Harry Potter and the Half Blood Price on BluRay (1080p)
Here in the UK From Amazon for just £5.99 inc free delivery

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002CYIQ...de=asn&creative=22242&creativeASIN=B002CYIQYE

 

[Cougarcat]

At this point, anybody buying physical media is behind the curve.

Behind the curve in what respect? Convenience, sure. But not image quality.

Physical media (whether it is Blu-Ray now or ultra-cheap Flash in the future) and instant streaming will exist for many years to come. For me, personally, if I am to buy a movie, I want the best image quality, so I prefer Blu-Ray. If I'm renting, Netflix streaming is just fine. For music, quality for me is much less important, and I have no problem with iTunes or Amazon MP3.

Different people have different tastes. Buying physical media is "behind the curve" only if you value convenience over quality.

Harry Potter and the Half Blood Price on BluRay (1080p)
Here in the UK From Amazon for just £5.99 inc free delivery

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002CYIQ...de=asn&creative=22242&creativeASIN=B002CYIQYE

He was referring to iTunes.

 

[entropys]

Or, perhaps studios (and directors) are balking at the idea of downgrading the movies from BD bitrate 1080p cuts to sub-DVD bitrate 720p Itunes crap?

Your mistake is to give all too much credit for appreciation of the aesthetic to the average movie executive. They haven't shown this anywhere else or at any other time, so why should they start now?

Or, perhaps studios (and directors) are balking at the idea of losing their sunk costs in physical media?

Fixed it for ya.

 

[Piggie]

This is a good practical point. But instant streaming is a marketing term, and I'm using it as such, not to make any network speed claims. How long does it take to go out and buy a Blu-ray disc at the store?

At this point, anybody buying physical media is behind the curve. There's nothing wrong with being behind the curve, but it's important to know where you stand to avoid surprises, like yet another new iMac that doesn't have Blu-ray.

I know what you are trying to say, but at the moment it's a stupid idea.

If being behind the curve gives you a higher quality item than being on your curve, and if you go with the behind the curve option, you can take the data from the behind the curve option and create an infront of the curve product.

If, on the curve is a 720p download in your eyes, then what is a 1080p ripp from a behind the curve BluRay then?

You can't really promote a new thing that's worse than the previous thing.

 

[Piggie]

He was referring to iTunes.

Yes, I know he was.

I just think it's hilarious that you will pay more on iTunes when it eventually comes out for a worse quality product than you can buy now from a shop.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Behind the curve in what respect? Convenience, sure. But not image quality.

Physical media (whether it is Blu-Ray now or ultra-cheap Flash in the future) and instant streaming will exist for many years to come. For me, personally, if I am to buy a movie, I want the best image quality, so I prefer Blu-Ray. If I'm renting, Netflix streaming is just fine. For music, quality for me is much less important, and I have no problem with iTunes or Amazon MP3.

Different people have different tastes. Buying physical media is "behind the curve" only if you value convenience over quality.

I touch each of my purchased blu-rays once: when I open it, put it into the blu-ray drive in my Mac Pro, and rip it to my server as either m2ts or mkv native unprocessed. Unfortunately there is no place where you can purchase the high quality blu-ray files and not enough bandwidth to download them. Since I want the highest quality (for certain movies) and purchase all the movies that go on my server, blu-ray is the only option. Until the two limits go away, physical media is the only solution if you want high quality 1080p and high definition lossless audio.

 

[AidenShaw]

Your mistake is to give all too much credit for appreciation of the aesthetic to the average movie executive.

How sad that Apple, which once stood for cutting edge audio/visual content, is now the "least common denominator" in the equation.

Unfortunately there is no place where you can purchase the high quality blu-ray files and not enough bandwidth to download them. Since I want the highest quality (for certain movies) and purchase all the movies that go on my server, blu-ray is the only option. Until the two limits go away, physical media is the only solution if you want high quality 1080p and high definition lossless audio.

Quoted for intelligence.

Why pay the same (or more) for over-compressed 720p and stereo, when I can get full BD bitrate 1080p and 7.1 channel 96kHz 24-bit lossless audio?

 

[Cougarcat]

Yes, I know he was.

I just think it's hilarious that you will pay more on iTunes when it eventually comes out for a worse quality product than you can buy now from a shop.

Some people think it's hilarious that people pay more music on iTunes when you can get cheaper used CDs (even including shipping) with better quality on Amazon.

Others value convenience.

Nothing's wrong with either position.

(For what it's worth, when I decide that I want an album, I do this: 1. Check Amazon's Used and New CDs prices. 2. Check iTunes and Amazon MP3. 3. Buy the cheapest. If there's a tie, I go for the physical media.)

 

[gorcman]

Some people think it's hilarious that people pay more music on iTunes when you can get cheaper used CDs (even including shipping) with better quality on Amazon.

Others value convenience.

Nothing's wrong with either position.

(For what it's worth, when I decide that I want an album, I do this: 1. Check Amazon's Used and New CDs prices. 2. Check iTunes and Amazon MP3. 3. Buy the cheapest. If there's a tie, I go for the physical media.)

I don't think its really fair to compare buying used CDs to itunes, as there's the added risk the CD may be scratched or damaged during shipping. Maybe new CDs to itunes is a better comparison?

 

[Cougarcat]

I don't think its really fair to compare buying used CDs to itunes, as there's the added risk the CD may be scratched or damaged during shipping. Maybe new CDs to itunes is a better comparison?

Not really. If it's scratched you get a refund, unless the seller sucks. (And new CDs can just as easily be damaged during shipping.)

Just happened to me, in fact (although it was a used game). Got a refund and I didn't even have to send the disc back.

 

[doberman211]

I'm a little disappointed they aren't refreshing the mac minis at the same time. i guess they'll do it with the mac pro.

 

[KnightWRX]

If depends if you're installing NT4 on a PowerPC system, an Alpha system, a MIPS system, or an x86 system.

ps: Usually it takes 0, 1, 3 or 4 floppies to install NT4.

• 0 - your motherboard supports CD-ROM booting, and the mass storage controller for your system drive is already on the NT4 CD-ROM
• 1 - your motherboard supports CD-ROM booting, but you need to supply a driver for your mass storage controller during installation
• 3 - your motherboard does not support CD-ROM booting, and the mass storage controller for your system drive is already on the NT4 CD-ROM
• 4 - your motherboard does not support CD-ROM booting, and you need to supply a driver for your mass storage controller during installation

No, I meant the floppy based retail version. IE :

5 - I don't have a cd-rom drive, only this floppy drive.

I know you could install from CD, I was just making a point that "waiting 45 minutes" while doing something else entirely wasn't such a pain that made it so "I would never install from DVD ever!" compared to installing stuff from floppy that had you sit there for the few hours it copied and decompressed stuff off of those 28 floppy disks...

 

[CplBadboy]

I'm a little disappointed they aren't refreshing the mac minis at the same time. i guess they'll do it with the mac pro.

Might not have to wait long. As another poster has put up he noted that Bestbuy is currently selling iMacs, Macminis and Pros in a quickly posted specials sale.

My money is one the rest if the mac family getting an upgrade very soon if not on the same Tuesday.

 

[Shanpdx]

I'm a little disappointed they aren't refreshing the mac minis at the same time. i guess they'll do it with the mac pro.

mac mini might be refreshed as well who knows

 

[Brenzo]

mac mini might be refreshed as well who knows

Doubtful. I'd think we would have at least heard something. Although, they are well overdue for an update. I'm ready to purchase my first desktop in the past 10 years, but fall in the same boat as many others who want a non-glossy option, or at the very least, the return of the 24" model. I'd be very hesitant to shell out $2,000+ without seeing what's next for the Mac Mini.

Ultimately, I think it may be best to just wait until the Mini refresh. Assuming that they end up with the same Sandy Bridge chipsets, Thunderbolt (if that's your thing), and similar BTO options (really would love dedicated SSD for the OS), one would probably get more for their money by purchasing a fully loaded Mini and then buying a monitor elsewhere. Yeah, you lose the sex appeal of the iMac and it doesn't have quite the same room presence, but if you value function over form...