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Sarcastic Responses vs Being on Topic and Polite

pukifloyd said:
I agree with you...its very annoying that people post sarcastic comments or post about wrong grammar/english.
Who cares if english is wrong? not everyone's first language is english
and if those people have nothing to post about except rude remarks and correcting english, then why do they even bother to waste their time and reply?
It’s very very irritating.
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Plus, we already have a Forum Rule about that:
12. Corrections. There is no need to point out another poster's spelling or grammatical errors unless you think it is causing confusion. Remember that not all members are native English speakers. Communication, not correctness, is our goal. Examples: Don't correct members who spell Mac in all caps or who call the iPod touch an iTouch.
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gnasher729 said:
Exactly. Not everyone's first language is English. And if your first language isn't English, then you have a real problem understanding what someone who is too lazy to use their own language correctly writes. So be polite and write proper English so that everybody can understand it.

I mean how much effort does it take to write "it's very annoying" instead of "its very annoying"? ...And all that effort because you are too lazy to write proper English.
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I'm surprised this needs saying, to be honest, but it's of course not (only) a matter of laziness. People have varying language skills in their mother tongues.

- Some people are genuinely interested in grammar and spelling, and therefore tend to make fewer mistakes.

- Some people write quite a bit in their work or personal lives, on everything from a very informal level to an official document level. The writing you habitually do, and the audience for whom you're writing, will have an effect on how many mistakes you allow yourself to make when writing.

- There's a pretty big age span among members here - some are still in middle school/junior high. They're still taking English classes, and still learning (= making mistakes).

- Some people are highly educated, but just don't care a whole lot. One of the most intelligent and educated people I know writes all her personal correspondance in lower-case letters.

- Finally, it is actually possible to make a mistake. 🙄 I do a lot of proofreading for academic articles, and I had to laugh at myself when I recently got the proofed copy back for an article I had written. I couldn't believe the mistakes I'd made. 😛 I would've caught them easily in someone else's work, but was blind to them in my own.

If someone's post has mistakes in it that make it difficult to understand, then ask politely what the person meant. Mistakes are generally not made to irritate other people. 😉
 
When there are people that will constantly start stupid ridiculous threads every day I think it is more than fair that the responses they get are the same.
 
MacNut said:
When there are people that will constantly start stupid ridiculous threads every day I think it is more than fair that the responses they get are the same.
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Yep. I see no reason not to craft a response at the same level as the question provided it's helpful or on topic.
 
annk said:
I'm surprised this needs saying, to be honest, but it's of course not (only) a matter of laziness. People have varying language skills in their mother tongues.

- Some people are genuinely interested in grammar and spelling, and therefore tend to make fewer mistakes.

- Some people write quite a bit in their work or personal lives, on everything from a very informal level to an official document level. The writing you habitually do, and the audience for whom you're writing, will have an effect on how many mistakes you allow yourself to make when writing.

- There's a pretty big age span among members here - some are still in middle school/junior high. They're still taking English classes, and still learning (= making mistakes).

- Some people are highly educated, but just don't care a whole lot. One of the most intelligent and educated people I know writes all her personal correspondance in lower-case letters.

- Finally, it is actually possible to make a mistake. 🙄 I do a lot of proofreading for academic articles, and I had to laugh at myself when I recently got the proofed copy back for an article I had written. I couldn't believe the mistakes I'd made. 😛 I would've caught them easily in someone else's work, but was blind to them in my own.

If someone's post has mistakes in it that make it difficult to understand, then ask politely what the person meant. Mistakes are generally not made to irritate other people. 😉
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I'm always amazed when I see people that speak other languages write in English better than most of the people here in the U.S. My hat goes off to you annk.
 
MacNut said:
When there are people that will constantly start stupid ridiculous threads every day I think it is more than fair that the responses they get are the same.
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What defines a stupid ridiculous thread? I mean as long as someone isn't being a troll. What you define as stupid doesn't mean others do.

Heck there's a thread in the iphone forum about why there isn't a flash app for jailbroken iPhones. The first two, particularly the first response was sarcastic. Clearly the first responder thought it was stupid hence his response, but over all it wasn't a bad question.
 
maflynn said:
What defines a stupid ridiculous thread? I mean as long as someone isn't being a troll. What you define as stupid doesn't mean others do.
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What defines "being a troll" for that matter? Here's an example of a thread that I would classify as "ridiculous." The unreasonableness of the posit and the refusal to have any sense of reality when thinking about the situation (this is before it devolved into a series of immature back-and-forths) isn't trolling, it's just... ridiculous.
 
maflynn said:
What defines a stupid ridiculous thread? I mean as long as someone isn't being a troll. What you define as stupid doesn't mean others do.

Heck there's a thread in the iphone forum about why there isn't a flash app for jailbroken iPhones. The first two, particularly the first response was sarcastic. Clearly the first responder thought it was stupid hence his response, but over all it wasn't a bad question.
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I think he might be referring to the 50th thread on "when do you think Verizon will get the iPhone" (and there's two on the same page right below it), or a thread like that.

Or how about the "ice cream sandwich" thread yesterday for the iPhone prototype?

Any of the special threads by a certain member on all kinds of inane subjects? 😀 I mean, come on!

Some of the older threads on bezels and pixels? Classic.

Get the idea?
 
maflynn said:
My point isn't really what defines a particular post but rather the need or the acceptance to issue a sarcastic response on that judgement. That's all.
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If someone posts something stupid they open themselves up to non favorable responses.

This is the internet not Sunday school. Everything is not happy and forgiving.
 
MacNut said:
If someone posts something stupid they open themselves up to non favorable responses. This is the internet not Sunday school. Everything is not happy and forgiving.
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But then the whining begins...and the gnashing of teeth...and the TOing.
 
-aggie- said:
I'm always amazed when I see people that speak other languages write in English better than most of the people here in the U.S. My hat goes off to you annk.
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Thank you, but I can't take that kind of credit - I'm American. Grew up in the US. 😛

MacNut said:
If someone posts something stupid they open themselves up to non favorable responses.

This is the internet not Sunday school. Everything is not happy and forgiving.
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As long as the non-favorable responses don't cross any lines in regard to the rules, there's no problem. 😉
 
miles01110 said:
What defines "being a troll" for that matter?...
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THAT is a really hard one, IMO (and I'm speaking for myself here, just so that's clear). The rules help to a certain extent...

"Trolling". Do not post in order to anger other members or intentionally cause negative reactions. For a given post, this can be a subjective call, but a pattern of such posting or an especially egregious case will get you banned. Basically, don't try to pick fights. Knowingly posting false information is also prohibited.
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...but it can often be hard to tell trolling from the posting of an unpopular opinion - especially if the poster has an abrasive (but not necessarily rule-breaking) style. It seems to me, based on the post reports and comments in the threads themselves, that this is one area where members' opinions differ the most.

-aggie- said:
OK, can I get suckup credit on a future TO then? 😉 Did I mention how pretty you are? 🙂
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Heh, I'll bring it up at the next board meeting. 😛
 
annk said:
...but it can often be hard to tell trolling from the posting of an unpopular opinion - especially if the poster has an abrasive (but not necessarily rule-breaking) style. It seems to me, based on the post reports and comments in the threads themselves, that this is one area where members' opinions differ the most.
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True. And the good (ie., successful) trolls are those that purposely incite controversy and debate without giving the appearance that it's intentional. Which makes it even harder to enforce from a rule-braking standpoint. 🙂
 
annk said:
I'm surprised this needs saying, to be honest, but it's of course not (only) a matter of laziness. People have varying language skills in their mother tongues.

...

If someone's post has mistakes in it that make it difficult to understand, then ask politely what the person meant. Mistakes are generally not made to irritate other people. 😉
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"On Topic and Polite". Bad English is impolite. It is thoughtless. And the poster that I responded to saying "not everyone has English as their native language" - _his_ native language was English, so he is just making excuses.

Think about what you are asking from people. You come to this site. You work hard to understand what's going on. It is twice as hard because some inconsiderate people can't be bothered. Take a sentence like "I drink allot". So you look up the word you don't know. "allot, verb, give or apportion (something) to someone as a share or task". What the hell is this supposed to mean? So now you think this person should ask politely what that poster meant? I don't think so.

You say "mistakes are generally not made to irritate other people". You forget that it is not your intent that counts, what counts is how it is received. "I didn't mean anything bad" doesn't count. It's like people making racist jokes but not meaning anything bad - no fun for anyone at the receiving end.
 
gnasher729 said:
Think about what you are asking from people. You come to this site. You work hard to understand what's going on. It is twice as hard because some inconsiderate people can't be bothered. Take a sentence like "I drink allot". So you look up the word you don't know. "allot, verb, give or apportion (something) to someone as a share or task". What the hell is this supposed to mean? So now you think this person should ask politely what that poster meant? I don't think so.
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Interesting point, that native English speakers should take more care so they don't confuse non-native English speakers. Since we necessarily must forgive non-native English speakers for making mistakes, the suggestion you make is a good guideline: "for courtesy, make yourself clear to as many people as possible."

It's not something that could be in the forum rules since it couldn't be enforced. The moderators simply wouldn't know which users were lazy and could have done better. And it would be a losing battle against people who don't spell well and have texting habits based on (over)abbreviating.

The ultimate solution is for someone to develop a "forum-post-to-English" translation tool!
 
MacNut said:
If someone posts something stupid they open themselves up to non favorable responses.

This is the internet not Sunday school. Everything is not happy and forgiving.
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And yet we're having this thread about how sarcastic responses detract from the whole experience.

Stating this is the internet does not give anyone free license to be rude or be impolite 🙄
 
Until fists can be converted to packets and sent across the nets to the faces of illegitimate twerps, yes, it does.
 
Doctor Q said:
The ultimate solution is for someone to develop a "forum-post-to-English" translation tool!
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As we don't yet have a proper Pirate-to-English tool, I'm not holding out much hope for a forum translator.

Non-native English is generally easy to discern from lazy native English or SMS-speak. Unfortunately, we're all too concerned about damaging one's self-esteem to be able to point out that grammatically inconsiderate usage without the cries of "grammar Nazi" being hurled about.

So, now I just choose to ignore it, including not offering assistance or suggestions to fix the core woe. If it's not important enough for them to even attempt to state the issue clearly, then it's certainly not important enough for me to help resolve it. I prefer to spend my time helping resolve member's problems, not interpret their posts.
 
What I don't like is the fact that the main forum (News Discussion) is full of hateful comments. Of course not all comments are bad. But so many quote others and say how dumb that person was for thinking that. I mean, what the hell? So many posters just go on and on about anti Apple/iPad/etc...(redundant hate posting) calling everyone a fan-boy. Any time I post there, I'm just waiting to be quoted and called an idiot. Jeez! 🙄 No respect.
 
RawBert said:
But so many quote others and say how dumb that person was for thinking that. I mean, what the hell?
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Report it then. If it has no substance it'll get removed.

So many posters just go on and on about anti Apple/iPad/etc...(redundant hate posting) calling everyone a fan-boy.
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In fairness, so many posters just go on and on about pro-Apple/iPad/etc... (redundant obsession posting) calling anyone who dissents as "uninformed" or "shortsighted" or "stupid."

Any time I post there, I'm just waiting to be quoted and called an idiot. Jeez! 🙄 No respect.
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So don't post there if it bothers you.
 
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