Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Scott Forstall to Discuss Creation of iPhone at Computer History Museum Next Week
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
lol I miss my 512k unenhanced Mac too but ... evolve or die...
On Forstall, sometimes it's just time to move on even if you feel indispensable and might almost be indispensable. "Almost indispensable" is a call the boss always gets to make. And, live with.
That sounds like a false dichotomy. It is possible to have both.
Skeumorphism is Steve Job's vision, and to be honest needs more respect than it usually gets.
Some people here seems trigger happy to blame Scott Fortstall for skeumorphism, but it seems they forget none of this would have happened without Steve's approval.
[doublepost=1497583428][/doublepost]Someone please explain to me how this is any better than Skeumorphic textures:
Some people here seems trigger happy to blame Scott Fortstall for skeumorphism, but it seems they forget none of this would have happened without Steve's approval.
[doublepost=1497583428][/doublepost]Someone please explain to me how this is any better than Skeumorphic textures:
Last edited:
Of course iOS 1-6 do look dated these days.
UI-design is about intuitive and easy usability first and looks second.
iOS 1-6 had one of the most intuitive user interfaces of all times. Keeping design principles and structures but modernizing the look would have been way better than what happened with iOS 7.
Guys, Forstall is not to blame with iOS Skeumorphism. Blame Steve Jobs instead. iCal's leather is based on Steve Job's private jet and Game Center is based on Casino that is also pushed by Steve Jobs.Remember Game Center?
Last edited:
What's always bothered me is the way they all took cheap shots at Forstall after he left. That line "We just ran out of green felt." by Craig Federighi at WWDC was really classless which is a shame because Hair Force One is usually better than that.
If you're taking that joke seriously then Federighi was cheapshotting Steve Jobs that time. Because Steve Jobs pushed Game Center to be more like Casino.
Pretty sure they were cracking jokes at THEMSELVES. Not Scott. Apple as a company shipped those designs, not Scott Forstall as an individual. Craig Federighi was leading Mac OSX when they shipped that tacky calendar app with the stitched leather and torn pages. OSX became further skeumorphed after Craig took over OSX, because Apple as a company kept pushing further into that visual style. So it's not like Craig didn't oversee the expansion of skeu in his OS.
If you can't laugh at Apple laughing at themselves, then idk what to say. So many don't seem to understand that everything at Apple is done by teams and teams of people, with major decisions made by groups of leaders. Maybe Scott pushed that style hard within the company, but the entire company still got behind it and shipped those products collectively
Last edited:
Apple maps was an excuse to get rid of him, saying sorry would not change that.
I respectfully disagree. As VP of iOS, Scott WAS responsible for the Maps failure, and he should have owned up to it, rather than leaving the CEO 'holding the bag', which is never a good idea. It's also never a mistake to admit to having fallen short and pledging to do better in the future. Stubbornness never got anyone anywhere fast.
Too bad things turned out this way cause Scott is definitely a very talented individual.
Last edited:
You REALLY think he would take shots at a recently deceased beloved CEO or the almost universally despised head of iOS software? Come on man.
iOS "stoner" editionSkeumorphism is Steve Job's vision, and to be honest needs more respect than it usually gets.
Some people here seems trigger happy to blame Scott Fortstall for skeumorphism, but it seems they forget none of this would have happened without Steve's approval.
[doublepost=1497583428][/doublepost]Someone please explain to me how this is any better than Skeumorphic textures:
[doublepost=1497599792][/doublepost]
I really hope that the next iPhone will blow away us, but based on the recent leaks I don't think so.
I'm not sure if Jony has that kind of expertise regarding the Apple Park. I'm sure that he should change his priorities though.
I don't know. Maybe it's just me but Apple is not that exciting as it used to be. I didn't question their choices that much in the past, but since Jony is messing up with the UI it's a never ending wtf for me. I remember when they introduced iOS 7 that the vast majority of people didn't like it. Even big media like The Verge, etc. were not happy with it. But people used to it in the end I guess. Now we can see that they're bringing back some old elements in iOS 11 and the only reason that's happening is that they basically admitting that the original elements were better. At least that's my impression of it of course.
But to end on the possitive note I have to say, that I'm feeling more excited about the future than ever. The little things like iOS 6 signal bars made me so happy when I installed iOS 11 beta.
Its because steve's reality distortion field is gone. If he presented our last few years of apple keynotes, i think people would react differently. If you look back at it, we actually had a few boring iOS upgrades, during his time as well. People also bitched about how OS X Lion was gonna dumb down the mac to iOS level (Back to the mac) + the leather and filt - and that was under all your old apple heroes watch
The grass is always greener, people will never be satisfied; but complain they will
The only different is, now that a well respected man as steve is gone, its easier to point fingers to other people, who actually are doing a great job, with the massive responsibility that has been put on their shoulders. No matter who you replace, the CEO or other execs, you'll never get another Steve.BUT Steve personally handpicked this craft to continue his legacy - he even put together an inside university to make sure it lives on - and thats what we see. It could be ALOT worse..Keep calm guys - if not, nothing is stopping you from switching
Don't let technology get your stress level up like this, hehe
Last edited:
I admit that I was happy when Scott Forstall left the company - I thought he was the one pushing the skeuomorphism design - and I prefer the modern UI look. But damn was his iOS releases stable. He was also a good speaker and you could see he was enthusiastic about his work. So I regret him leaving the company now... he was a great asset for Apple.
Scott if you're reading this, please come back!
Scott if you're reading this, please come back!
2017 and Siri hasn't become markedly more intelligent after five years, with billions spent on research and development, what on earth has Apple got for their R and D investment? Siri on Apple TV is mixed, Siri on mac is complete rubbish, and across platforms there isn't consistency between Siri commands. It's a big disappointment.
Unfortunately Gruber isn't objective, impartial, investigative or critical of Apple as good podcasting and reporting MUST be. Great reporting looks at all angles of Apple, gives the full picture. Gruber reporting lacks depth. There are many questions that could be explored. While at times humorous, it's like drinking lolly water watching the interviews. Where's Mossberg? Mossberg digs down deep into the details, that's quality journalism. Gruber could learn a thing or two to become more professional. But I suspect Apple is very much happy to not to dig down into the details which might be why Gruber is the current flavor of the day.
Rogifan, please work on facts, not reading between lines and making up stories.
Fact is executives publicly denigrated the work of Forstall and team at many keynotes after his departure. Complete bullying culture at Apple. That's clearly apparent.
Fact is Forstall and team brought us simple beautiful multitouch interactions and performance optimizations that completely changed the landscape in 2007 and Apple's entire fortunes. The iOS 7 refresh was welcome, but underneath continues to be Forstall and team's user experience, still here today at 10 and now 11.
I'm certainly not an apologist for Forstall, I'm simply highlighting Forstall and team are a very big part of the reason iPhone was revolutionary. Anyone bashing Forstall is effectively bashing Apple by the way.
You suggested J. Ive never presented. I simply picked you up on the fact that he did present in depth on stage, and presents in depth on video at many keynotes.
[doublepost=1497603745][/doublepost]
The culture at Apple is full of bullying. There are many engineers and designers who have left because of that. People stay where they feel happy, they leave when they don't. Hopefully a new campus means better workplace relations.
[doublepost=1497603881][/doublepost]
Forgive me, but it sounds like you have insider knowledge? Would be good if you could expand on your accounts.
[doublepost=1497604407][/doublepost]
I like your perspective on this. In a way, this is effectively frosted glass or tie dye psychedelic skeumorphism. Why not just a plain dull light grey sheet instead? Too cold? Too boring? I think decoration to some point seems necessary to make technology seem more human. iOS 10 and 11 seem to be moving closer toward skeumorphic tendencies again.Skeumorphism is Steve Job's vision, and to be honest needs more respect than it usually gets.
Some people here seems trigger happy to blame Scott Fortstall for skeumorphism, but it seems they forget none of this would have happened without Steve's approval.
[doublepost=1497583428][/doublepost]Someone please explain to me how this is any better than Skeumorphic textures:
I think the UI looks good now, I wasn't a big fan of skeuomorphism and although it took time for me to get used to iOS 7 I wouldn't go back to the look and feel of iOS 6.
That said, iOS was more stable and faster back then. And Forstall was there when they made iOS, so he was one of the key guys who built the foundation of what we are using today. He deserves my respect and I wasn't happy when he left the company. I like Federighi, he is great during keynotes, but Forstall wasn't bad either and apart from maps he did a great job.
I'm looking forward to listening to the interview
Does this mean we will get a new picture of him? It's always the same pic!!!!!!
Again Forstall was the one presenting. If maps wasn't ready for prime time why did he present it? Did Cook say you're fired if you don't present this on stage? Also this was 2012. There is no way Steve Jobs wasn't involved in some of the decision around scrapping Google maps in place of Apple's own solution. This didn't just happen after October 2011. To place all the blame on Tim Cook is wrong.
[doublepost=1497613226][/doublepost]
honestly there's not that much different in iOS from a navigation standpoint. Features have been added but it basically works as it always did.
Would Steve (and Scott) have given us split screen and drag and drop multitasking on the iPad? My guess is no, which is why I'm glad Tim and Craig are in charge now.
[doublepost=1497614641][/doublepost]
I'm not making up stories I'm explaining why I think Scott was let go. I've never argued any of the points you've raised about his contributions other than there were/are a lot of engineers and designers we never hear about that were also responsible for this. And I stand by what I said about Ive. Doing voiceovers for product videos is nothing like presenting and demoing on stage. The one time he was on stage you can tell he was nervous as hell so that's probably why he's never been on stage since.
And no I don't think iOS 10 & 11 are bringing skeuomorphism back. Changing to thicker weighted fonts is not skeuomorphism. All iOS 11 is telling us is Apple went 180 degrees in another direction and is starting to tone that down a bit. I actually am not a fan of the new font choices on apple.com. They look dated to me and don't really match the aesthetic of the new website. I much prefer last years font choices.
I really miss the old iOS style. All they should have done is make it more subtle, not flood it with gradients and terrible icons. Granted it got better, but man. Literally EVERY redesign that appeared online at the time looked better. Some of the designs on Dribbble made me wonder who the hell Apple employs that they were incapable of making something like those. Not to mention, iOS 7 was flooded with bugs for me, I was like "what happened here? This is not why I buy Apple stuff!" I had to go back, it was unusable for me.
Makes me wonder if since then Ive is less involved in graphics, cuz it's obvious he has no clue, he's an industrial designer which doesnt always translate well into UI (my parents sometimes can't tell what's a button on iOS cuz it's just text). Watch OS looks great, so does MacOS for the most part. I really want to see another overhaul of iOS to make it look like MacOS.
Makes me wonder if since then Ive is less involved in graphics, cuz it's obvious he has no clue, he's an industrial designer which doesnt always translate well into UI (my parents sometimes can't tell what's a button on iOS cuz it's just text). Watch OS looks great, so does MacOS for the most part. I really want to see another overhaul of iOS to make it look like MacOS.
