Scott Forstall to Discuss Creation of iPhone at Computer History Museum Next Week

[Feyl]

Funny, but your theory doesn't actually reflect reality at all. Steve Jobs chose Tim Cook as his successor. Not Forstall. I fail to see how he was "grooming" him to become CEO. Seems to me Steve already chose Tim as his successor MANY years before he retired. Tim being temporary CEO during Steves first medical leave in 2005, as well as every time after, supports the idea that Steve had Tim in mind for years. And the fact that he didn't change his mind after all that time, says a lot about how much he trusted Tim.

Cook doesn't get enough credit. He hasn't gotten an ego, tried to take over Apple with his own agenda, changed the company, etc. He has treated Apple with a lot of respect and humility. He has made it his mission to preserve the things that make Apple special, and not change the company radically. Jobs knew that Apple didn't need a Steve Jobs wannabe, he knew that Apple needs a different leader that at the same time can respect and preserve the things that Steve Jobs tried to propagate within the company.

Apple would look very different if Forstall was in charge, his ego would have taken over. I'm not sure if it would have been for the better. I'm highly reluctant, as Steve obviously was. Or else Forstall would be CEO.

First of all, Steve hired John Scully, so he wasn't always right. But I think that Tim is actually doing a wonderful job as a CEO. It's extremely hard to lead company like Apple and especially after a visionary like Steve Jobs.

The main problem I have with Apple these days is actually Jony Ive. He was at his best when he was working with Steve who kept him in the line and narated his designing process. I believe that there's nobody now who is brave enough to tell him and his design team that something sucks. Just look at the magic mouse 2, etc.. He even steped out of some of his responsibilities and turned his duties as a head of human interface design to Alan Dye. That speaks for itself, don't you think? It seems to me that he doesn't do anything significant in the company anymore. Instead he's bothering with things outside the company like designing christmas trees and Leica cameras and ****..

And there goes Tim's humality and kindness towards his "friends" from executive teams like Jony. Just because he designed something great in the past doesn't mean he's doing great now. That's the main problem here I think. Now the best part of Apple is Craig Federighi and his team. This guy is doing a great job and it's the only one who shows some real excitement when he's presenting his work. As much as I loved Jony he seems like an unlikeable guy with his ego now. Say anything about Scott Forstall and his ego but you cannot deny that he was always very excited about his work and was a master in it. If he wasn't, then there would be nobody who fell in love with iPhone, right..

 

[trifid]

I remember skeuomorphic... I remember it looking better and being more intuitive than flat-gawdy-gradients and skinny fonts. I also remember a Music app which was intuitive.

Don't forget the overuse of translucency post iOS6 OS-wide which I found far more distracting aesthetically unpleasant.

Frosted glass panels everywhere.

 

[huperniketes]

People miss him like they miss Lindsay Lohan.

Err, what ever happened to her?

She's scheduled to appear on Sky TV next year along with Rupert Grint in the second season of Sick Note.

 

[Superhappytree]

Don't forget the overuse of translucency post iOS6 OS-wide which I found far more distracting aesthetically unpleasant.

Frosted glass panels everywhere.

They love frosted glass so much they even wrap their new iPads in it.
[doublepost=1497566775][/doublepost]

First of all, Steve hired John Scully, so he wasn't always right. But I think that Tim is actually doing a wonderful job as a CEO. It's extremely hard to lead company like Apple and especially after a visionary like Steve Jobs.

The main problem I have with Apple these days is actually Jony Ive. He was at his best when he was working with Steve who kept him in the line and narated his designing process. I believe that there's nobody now who is brave enough to tell him and his design team that something sucks. Just look at the magic mouse 2, etc.. He even steped out of some of his responsibilities and turned his duties as a head of human interface design to Alan Dye. That speaks for itself, don't you think? It seems to me that he doesn't do anything significant in the company anymore. Instead he's bothering with things outside the company like designing christmas trees and Leica cameras and ****..

And there goes Tim's humality and kindness towards his "friends" from executive teams like Jony. Just because he designed something great in the past doesn't mean he's doing great now. That's the main problem here I think. Now the best part of Apple is Craig Federighi and his team. This guy is doing a great job and it's the only one who shows some real excitement when he's presenting his work. As much as I loved Jony he seems like an unlikeable guy with his ego now. Say anything about Scott Forstall and his ego but you cannot deny that he was always very excited about his work and was a master in it. If he wasn't, then there would be nobody who fell in love with iPhone, right..

Voice of reason here. Thank you. I, too, have a strong dislike for Jony Ive these days and think he's the main problem. Steve Jobs was clearly his filter and it's clearly evident the more years that pass. No more "this **** is terrible, come up with something better" feedback anymore. If they got rid of him I really wouldn't care. If they rehire Forstall, however... that guy knew his stuff and had years of experience. Now they don't have a damn clue.

 

[Rocketman]

If Scott took elocution lessons, reduced the tension and checked his ego at the door, he would be VP right now. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. He was trying to emulate Steve, but he was not Steve and did not have a reality distortion field.

 

[Millah]

First of all, Steve hired John Scully, so he wasn't always right. But I think that Tim is actually doing a wonderful job as a CEO. It's extremely hard to lead company like Apple and especially after a visionary like Steve Jobs.

The main problem I have with Apple these days is actually Jony Ive. He was at his best when he was working with Steve who kept him in the line and narated his designing process. I believe that there's nobody now who is brave enough to tell him and his design team that something sucks. Just look at the magic mouse 2, etc.. He even steped out of some of his responsibilities and turned his duties as a head of human interface design to Alan Dye. That speaks for itself, don't you think? It seems to me that he doesn't do anything significant in the company anymore. Instead he's bothering with things outside the company like designing christmas trees and Leica cameras and ****..

And there goes Tim's humality and kindness towards his "friends" from executive teams like Jony. Just because he designed something great in the past doesn't mean he's doing great now. That's the main problem here I think. Now the best part of Apple is Craig Federighi and his team. This guy is doing a great job and it's the only one who shows some real excitement when he's presenting his work. As much as I loved Jony he seems like an unlikeable guy with his ego now. Say anything about Scott Forstall and his ego but you cannot deny that he was always very excited about his work and was a master in it. If he wasn't, then there would be nobody who fell in love with iPhone, right..

I fail to see the relevance of your post in reply to mine. I didn't mention Jony anywhere. And I didn't say Forstall wasn't a brilliant engineer. He was, and forever will be legendary for making iPhone OS happen. I have huge respect for the mans achievements. I however disagree with the notion that Apple would be better off in his hands. There's a big difference between leading a project, and leading an entire organization.

If this discussion is centered around Forstalls absence being Apples "decline," then that would fly in the face of what you just said about Craig Federighi. I agree, Craig is doing a phenomenal job leading BOTH macOS and iOS. Therefore, it's hard to say that Forstall wasn't replaceable.

As for Jony, first of all, nobody knows Jonys day to day work. That teams operation is more secretive than the President. Secondly, we DO know where a lot of his energy has been focused lately, and that's on Apple Park. Not "Christmas trees." And considering some of the design detail and typical Apple brilliance going into Apple Park, it's not fair to say that Jony is some washed up bum who sits around collecting a paycheck these days. Jonys impact to Apple has been far more significant than Forstall in my opinion. The breadth of products he's worked on throughout his career spans far more than Forstall. Let's also not forget that physical objects are constrained by the laws of physics and scale, whereas software is not. But just like you can say Jony only did his best work under the leadership of Jobs, you can arguably say the same thing about Forstall. Difference is Forstall didn't get the chance to show us. He did 1 major release after Jobs passed, and it caused Apple a serious black eye (leading to his firing).

 

[LiveM]

That book mentioned at the end of this story is looking more and more like an outright fabrication. Tony Fadell has even refuted quotes that were attributed to him during an interview for the book. It looks like a disaster and I won't be giving them my money to support whatever agenda they have.

B.S. This time there really are tapes.

Phil is upset that Tony let it be known that he wanted a physical keyboard on the iPhone, so both lied to discredit the author.

"He’s been called 'Tony Baloney,' and one former Apple exec advised me 'not to believe a single word Tony Fadell says.'"
https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/13/...et-history-iphone-brian-merchant-book-excerpt

 

[mi7chy]

Scott you should have just dropped your ego and said sorry about Apple Maps. Sucks you were so difficult to work with and got fired.
We've missed you and your ego is why we haven't heard any news from you for years. You've become that guy that has already done his best work. Thank you for it but man, you could have done so much more. I hate egos sometimes.

The fact that Forstall hasn't been involved with Apple Maps since he left in 2012 and that Apple maps is still terrible in 2017 proves that he's not at fault.

 

[vartanarsen]

The Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California has announced that former iOS chief Scott Forstall will sit down with journalist John Markoff on June 20 for a fireside chat about how the iPhone came to be.

Forstall was Apple's Vice President of iOS from 2007 until 2012​

Forstall will be talking publicly about Apple for the first time since he was reportedly ousted from the company in October 2012, following the botched launch of Apple Maps. Forstall has maintained a quiet presence since then, although he did announce he was co-producing the Broadway musical Fun Home in 2015.Forstall's fireside chat will be preceded by a panel discussion with a trio of engineers from the original iPhone development team, Nitin Ganatra, Scott Herz, and Hugo Fiennes, who will talk about their work on the transformative device.

The two-part event is part of the Computer History Museum's ongoing "iPhone 360" project this year that explores the story of the iPhone, from its prehistory, inception, and launch, to its evolution and impact."Putting Your Finger On It: Creating the iPhone" is scheduled for Tuesday between 7 p.m. and 9 p.m. Pacific Time at the museum's Exponential Center. Check-in begins at 6 p.m. Registration is available online.

June 20 also marks the release of the book The One Device: The Secret History of the iPhone by Brian Merchant, in which Forstall is quoted. Apple marketing chief Phil Schiller and former iPod chief Tony Fadell have both turned to Twitter in recent days to refute some of the book's contents.

Article Link: Scott Forstall to Discuss Creation of iPhone at Computer History Museum Next Week

Who else miss those icons? Dam Cartoon icons Cook put in....

 

[Macaholic868]

Maps was super crap back then - launched a year or two too early - rushed to market. Now its fine

I think the maps debacle was inevitable. Google had such a huge lead on Apple in terms of the data needed to power the app that to me it was always going to be a disaster no matter how long Apple worked on it unless they had a public beta. It was always going to take millions of users actively reporting errors to get the underlying data corrected.

 

[atropos]

I believe that Cook fired Forstall because he saw him as a threat to his position as CEO. Forstall knows OS X and iOS inside and out, to just get rid of him with all of that knowledge is just irresponsible on Cook's part.

LOL... I believe that Cook may not stand for Forstall's not give a **** on political issue, diversity, LGBT.... etc that kind of topic, instead he keeps focusing and making Apple product better, thats offense Cook's vision. LOL
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I totally agree with the above. Further, where is the apology from Jonny Ive for the stupid Mac Pro trash can mac? Several execs and engineers came out to say that they designed themselves into a thermal corner...yeah? so where is the designer's apology? How about designing products for people, not designing for a museum 20 years from now, Jonny.

let's say someone doesn't believe Jonny should be out to apologize for that design?? Ask yourself, would Jonny have showed up to accept an award, you're god damned right he would accept an award, he does all the time. So he should be apologizing for that...the head of marketing and head of MacOS software shouldn't be apologizing.

Sir Jonny Ego.

Yea... I believe if SJ still around, he won't allow the camera bevel, the ugly dongles, looks like crap AirPod Design, lighting port EarPods...... and crappy music taste from Tim Cook and the guy from Beats

 

[Naraxus]

Cook rushed it out? It was Scott Forstall who gave a flawless demonstration at WWDC. Did he ever say to Tim maps isn't ready? And if it was a data issue who was responsible for maps data? Forstall was the one who presented it to the public. Does he not have to take any ownership of the data?

Oh and calling Tim Cook "Timmy" makes you look childish.

Right but Cook is the CEO which means the ultimate decision on what to present rests with rests with him. Cook wanted a Maps app and knew that it was faulty and rushed it onto the stage at WWDC. And let's be real here, Forstall didn't go to places that weren't already well mapped out. He went to places in San Francisco and so on. I'd EXPECT the mapping data to be flawless in San Fran.

 

[atropos]

I'd get Jon Rubinstein back as CEO before Forstall.

I would love to team up Jon, Scott, Tony Fadell.....and Bob Mansfield... also Ron Johnson back to retail.. thats my dream.

 

[ccsicecoke]

I miss iOS6.

 

[M2M]

I think the maps debacle was inevitable. Google had such a huge lead on Apple in terms of the data needed to power the app that to me it was always going to be a disaster no matter how long Apple worked on it unless they had a public beta. It was always going to take millions of users actively reporting errors to get the underlying data corrected.

Don't remember millions of users to correct google maps. Apple just rushed it too early. Anyway. Siri is the new Apple maps.

 

[Feyl]

I fail to see the relevance of your post in reply to mine. I didn't mention Jony anywhere. And I didn't say Forstall wasn't a brilliant engineer. He was, and forever will be legendary for making iPhone OS happen. I have huge respect for the mans achievements. I however disagree with the notion that Apple would be better off in his hands. There's a big difference between leading a project, and leading an entire organization.

If this discussion is centered around Forstalls absence being Apples "decline," then that would fly in the face of what you just said about Craig Federighi. I agree, Craig is doing a phenomenal job leading BOTH macOS and iOS. Therefore, it's hard to say that Forstall wasn't replaceable.

As for Jony, first of all, nobody knows Jonys day to day work. That teams operation is more secretive than the President. Secondly, we DO know where a lot of his energy has been focused lately, and that's on Apple Park. Not "Christmas trees." And considering some of the design detail and typical Apple brilliance going into Apple Park, it's not fair to say that Jony is some washed up bum who sits around collecting a paycheck these days. Jonys impact to Apple has been far more significant than Forstall in my opinion. The breadth of products he's worked on throughout his career spans far more than Forstall. Let's also not forget that physical objects are constrained by the laws of physics and scale, whereas software is not. But just like you can say Jony only did his best work under the leadership of Jobs, you can arguably say the same thing about Forstall. Difference is Forstall didn't get the chance to show us. He did 1 major release after Jobs passed, and it caused Apple a serious black eye (leading to his firing).

What I was trying to say was, that Tim is the right man at the right place, but since Jony has a huge reputation and respect within and out of Apple it's kinda difficult for Tim and others to say him no to some things.

And that's when Scott comes in my argument. He was recognised as a genius in Apple who laid foundations to many products, even in the NeXT days. I think that's actually Jony's fault that they weren't collaborating. I'm trying to point out that he really was a better solution for them as a software leader. I praise Craig so much everywhere I go because he is also brilliant, but unfourtunately, he doesn't run the entire software development as Scott did, which is a shame. It's the design team that is not that great at executing his teams ideas and features. iOS and MacOS were a better experience when Scott was there, even though it weren't that feature rich and open as it is today.

I'm not saying that Scott should be a CEO. That's nonsense that many people are saying. It was logical for Steve to make Tim the CEO because he ran operations. You can't have a software engineer, designer or a marketing guy as a leader of a company.

As you're saying we don't know what Jony's up to everyday.. But I'm sure that we would see a breaktrough products if he's hard at work.

Apple Park is a whole another discussion. What major exactly is he doing on that project? Wasn't that supposed to be all done by the day they started to building it? It was mainly Steve's project as far as I know. There was an article here at macrumors that even said that they actually removed and changed some things that Steve wanted to be there. That I don't consider a major work by the worlds greatest industrial designer of the generation.

I love this company so much but I'm worried how they design things today. The feature set has never been better, but I don't enjoy Apple products like I used to. Anyway, english is not my native language, so please excuse the possible mistakes. I hope I clarified my post

 

[Abazigal]

Why should it matter to any of us if he was a douchebag behind the scenes? So was Steve but his legacy speaks for itself. You can't be a nice guy in the tech industry all the time, just look at the mess of iOS now with the supposed "harmonious" work environment. Funnily enough it's the "massive douchebags" like Scott and Steve that seem to bring out the best in Apple and the whole tech industry in general. That ruthlessness is clearly missing in today's Apple. No more Steve to say: "This is ****, make it better", like he would to half of the crap that Apple's been churning out these past few years. If he suddenly came back from the dead and saw the mess of the music app, the lag and random stutters scattered around iOS, the inconsistent and ugly UI, stuff like the camera bump and antenna lines on the iPhones... he'd probably fire 90% of the people there. And given that ruthlessness I was talking about, he'd be so livid he'd probably fire Jony too before telling him to **** off for ****ing his company, replace him with some other designer and then rehire Forstall.

The difference was that Steve Jobs was a douchebag who could still rally people around him and make it all work in the end.

Scott couldn't, and from all accounts, he was pissing off so many of his coworkers that it was either him or them. Had Scott stayed, it was likely that morale and productivity would have suffered at Apple as a result.

Moral of the story? Don't try to be a dick the way Steve Jobs was if you can't manage people the way he could either.

And to me, ios 6 was easily the weakest version of iOS, with barely any new functionality. I like iOS 7 and the design direction that it is headed in, and if it took the firing of Scott Forstall to see this degree of progress and innovation with iOS, then I am not sorry to see Scott go.

Scott made his bed. Now he has to lie in it.

 

[amegicfox]

Scott was smarter then everyone at Apple and he paid the price for this.

He would not pander and bend like Tim always does.

Scott knew everything about software, hardware and design,
something that Tim Cook has no clue about.

Jony Ive who is clueless about software took over
and introduced skinny fonts on white background.
he then killed all the german interface design guidelines
and literally destroyed the usability os the iPhone and iPad
just to be different out of spite and jealosy.

Disgusting. sad.

 

[ILikeAllOS]

I respect Forstall for not giving in and apologizing for something which wasn't his fault (data).

lol!
So he was in charge of Apple Maps... but it wasn't his job to make sure it had useful maps (data)?

Tim ultimately signed off on it, the buck stop with him.

No he didn't.
Apple Maps was something Steve had come up with, assigned Scott to it and signed off on it just before stepping down, leaving Tim stuck with both Scott and the Maps mess.
Either way, the main problem though was that Tim immediately took action to fix/improve this mess and apologize, while Scott not only refused to apologize but more importantly, he refused to do anything!

Scotts wonderful plan was not to partner with other companies, use third party companies data in Maps, make company acquisitions, etc.
No no, he said that his plan for fixing it was to just have people use Apple Maps and it will magically fix itself...
I'm not kidding!
He actually said that as more people use Apple Maps it would just improve itself.

Of course, in the time since then we have seen that it has taken a lot more work, acquisitions, integrations of third party data and a secret "street view" project to get Maps to where it is today.
Scott couldn't see that and so he was kicked out.

 

[pika2000]

I don't understand people here.
Maps: I actually used Maps during its early days, and in the US, it is actually fine. But international use of it is not good since Apple just didn't have enough data (compared to Google). Even today, Apple maps while great in the US, is not my first choice outside the US. Considering at that time Jobs was not happy with Google, there was probably enough pressure to push Maps ASAP. Remember that in a company, there is a pipeline. Jobs probably already green lighted many things that we only see after his passing. Blaming things on Tim Cook just because is childish.

As for Forstall, if he was so great, he would still do great without Apple. So what has he been doing? Sure, I could see his passion during his old keynotes, but there was also a team that do stuff behind him. If you put Forstall on a pedestal, you are dismissing the rest of the iOS team.

And iOS 7 needed to happen, despite the buggy and rocky road of 8 and 9. If Apple kept the skeumorphic design today, the same people praising it would be complaining how stale it is. Plus there were plenty of redesign under the hood. Metal, APFS, all don the just happen in the flip of switch. I bet the team has been incrementally prepping iOS to be ready for these modern changes.

The hate on iOS 7 feels familiar like how people hated Windows 8. People praises the old and actually slower Windows 7. In reality, Windows 8 laid the groundwork for the sleeker 10.

People obviously can only judge book by the cover. Forget how the real engineers building the platform we love, people just want to watch the drama queens.

 

[inscrewtable]

View attachment 704145

All iOS releases have been very stable for me, maybe you should try setting up the phone as new and don't use a backup to bring along crappy data.

Regarding the horrific skeuomorphic interface, don't forget that the volume button's shine was animated!

 

[Verita]

...and ugly as sin.

At a time when iOS devices have the best screens ever, iOS presents more simple visuals, pastel colors, and thin fonts.

I agree it could look better. However, I will always take function over form when it comes to things like control center, settings app, etc.

 

[pika2000]

The fact that Forstall hasn't been involved with Apple Maps since he left in 2012 and that Apple maps is still terrible in 2017 proves that he's not at fault.

Hen was the last time you use Maps in the US? Even on its early days, I find Apple maps to be adequate in the US. Outside US is different story because Google simply had a huge early start in gathering data.

 

[citysnaps]

Forstall would be an awful CEO. A disaster. Not leadership material.

 

[Millah]

What I was trying to say was, that Tim is the right man at the right place, but since Jony has a huge reputation and respect within and out of Apple it's kinda difficult for Tim and others to say him no to some things.

And that's when Scott comes in my argument. He was recognised as a genius in Apple who laid foundations to many products, even in the NeXT days. I think that's actually Jony's fault that they weren't collaborating. I'm trying to point out that he really was a better solution for them as a software leader. I praise Craig so much everywhere I go because he is also brilliant, but unfourtunately, he doesn't run the entire software development as Scott did, which is a shame. It's the design team that is not that great at executing his teams ideas and features. iOS and MacOS were a better experience when Scott was there, even though it weren't that feature rich and open as it is today.

I'm not saying that Scott should be a CEO. That's nonsense that many people are saying. It was logical for Steve to make Tim the CEO because he ran operations. You can't have a software engineer, designer or a marketing guy as a leader of a company.

As you're saying we don't know what Jony's up to everyday.. But I'm sure that we would see a breaktrough products if he's hard at work.

Apple Park is a whole another discussion. What major exactly is he doing on that project? Wasn't that supposed to be all done by the day they started to building it? It was mainly Steve's project as far as I know. There was an article here at macrumors that even said that they actually removed and changed some things that Steve wanted to be there. That I don't consider a major work by the worlds greatest industrial designer of the generation.

I love this company so much but I'm worried how they design things today. The feature set has never been better, but I don't enjoy Apple products like I used to. Anyway, english is not my native language, so please excuse the possible mistakes. I hope I clarified my post

Gotcha. Those are some fair concerns. But I think when September rolls around, we won't be wondering what Jony and his team have been doing. The next iPhone, all signs point to it being a "wow" product. There's no question that the first half of iPhones life contained more "wows." But that's because there were more problems to solve. The 2nd half of iPhones life has seen it mature, which should be expected after a decade. But let's be real, Apple is still the primary influencer in the phone industry, and Jonys work is still influencing others. They are still setting the design trends. The current design trend of reducing bezels, arguably came about from competitors trying to beat Apple to the punch, who has been rumored to create a bezel-less iPhone for almost 2 years now.

Let's try to put things in perspective. There is no doubt that Steve had tremendous influence over EVERYONES work at Apple. Jony, Scott, Tim, Phil, etc. I doubt any of them would try to argue that. Apples products, advertising, software, are all lacking the special touch Steve had. There's no changing that. Unfortunately the man was taken from us in the prime of his life. I don't think we can single out Jony as being the lone lost soul without Steve. All of them who worked closely with him miss him probably every day.

As for Apple Park, Steve laid a vision and helped iterate an architectural plan. Jony apparently was involved in that process too while Steve was alive, and there's no reason to doubt that. The two were inseparable. But you're kidding yourself if you think the job was done after that. There are SO MANY things involved with taking a plan and turning it into reality. Constraints come rearing their ugly head, requiring further iteration. New ideas come about while executing, require more iteration. I wouldn't doubt for a second if the interior and really smaller details of the campus are way different today than they were originally planned 5 years ago. Jony has been involved with taking a general plan and actually bringing it to fruition. If you look even at just the crude drawings Steve showcased to Cupertino city council, compared to how the campus ACTUALLY looks now, you'll see many changes.