MP 1,1-5,1 Screen share/Apple Remote Desktop/other severely slows down the Mac Pro (3,1) being shared

[joshuafried]

All I wanna do is run a headless Mac Pro(3,1, with @dosdude1 patch for Mojave). The instant I connect, mouse/keyboard latency becomes intolerably slow, on the Mac Pro itself, whether I'm looking at it through the two MacBooks I tried this with, or sitting in front of the Mac Pro (display temporarily attached for testing). WindowServer spikes to over 50% just sitting there in Activity Monitor, on the target Mac Pro. If I move a window around, it exceeds 100%.

And not just Screen Sharing and Apple Remote Desktop; I get this using ConnectWise Control Client also (it's kinda like TeamViewer). As soon as I disconnect, latency vanishes on the Mac Pro and I can wave a window around smoothly and fast.

Info follows, and after that a list of things-I-tried.

To be clear, I'm testing with a monitor attached. The problem persists on the remote end when monitor is unplugged.

MacPro3,1 ("Mac Pro (Early 2008)") 2 * 2.8 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon (8 cores total)
Memory: 16 GB
Boot ROM Version: MP31.006C.B05 SMC Version (system): 1.25f4

NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 512MB running 1920 x 1080 24-Bit Color

Mojave macOS 10.14.6 (18G9323) via DosDude patch.

Things I tried/notes.

With 800*600 rez (unacceptably small) the problem isn't as bad. Several restarts, reset SMC and nvram, force-quit WindowServer, turned off firewall and little snitch, direct Ethernet connection via Cat5e bypassing router, trashed all Google services and apps, turned off all accessibility features; turned off "Displays have separate spaces" and logged out and back in.

 

[paalb]

I have done support via Remote Desktop daily for many years. Typically, you see slowdowns or jerky mice only when two admins are connected to the same mac. This is not the situation here, I believe.

A long shot... Have you tried with ConnectWise Control Client deactivated? Or vice versa? An even longer shot ... without mice and keyboard on the MacPro.

 

[joshuafried]

Thanks for this reply. I've tried both things you mention.

 

[Macschrauber]

All I wanna do is run a headless Mac Pro(3,1, with @dosdude1 patch for Mojave). The instant I connect, mouse/keyboard latency becomes intolerably slow, on the Mac Pro itself, whether I'm looking at it through the two MacBooks I tried this with, or sitting in front of the Mac Pro (display temporarily attached for testing). WindowServer spikes to over 50% just sitting there in Activity Monitor, on the target Mac Pro. If I move a window around, it exceeds 100%.

And not just Screen Sharing and Apple Remote Desktop; I get this using ConnectWise Control Client also (it's kinda like TeamViewer). As soon as I disconnect, latency vanishes on the Mac Pro and I can wave a window around smoothly and fast.

Info follows, and after that a list of things-I-tried.

To be clear, I'm testing with a monitor attached. The problem persists on the remote end when monitor is unplugged.

MacPro3,1 ("Mac Pro (Early 2008)") 2 * 2.8 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon (8 cores total)
Memory: 16 GB
Boot ROM Version: MP31.006C.B05 SMC Version (system): 1.25f4

NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 512MB running 1920 x 1080 24-Bit Color

Mojave macOS 10.14.6 (18G9323) via DosDude patch.

Things I tried/notes.

With 800*600 rez (unacceptably small) the problem isn't as bad. Several restarts, reset SMC and nvram, force-quit WindowServer, turned off firewall and little snitch, direct Ethernet connection via Cat5e bypassing router, trashed all Google services and apps, turned off all accessibility features; turned off "Displays have separate spaces" and logged out and back in.

put a metal gpu in, the cheapest Kepler is ok. Without proper driver screen sharing on systems that need Metal is painfully slow. I also often check repairs and builts via screen sharing. When I forget to swap the gpu thats the 1st thing I notice.

 

[tsialex]

Mojave with unaccelerated GPU is practically unbearable to use, even worse when being accessed remotely.

Get rid of your GT120 or go back to High Sierra, where the interface is not METAL dependent and the GT120 is still fully supported.

 

[joshuafried]

put a metal gpu in, the cheapest Kepler is ok. Without proper driver screen sharing on systems that need Metal is painfully slow. I also often check repairs and builts via screen sharing. When I forget to swap the gpu thats the 1st thing I notice.

Thanks, sounds like good advice for running Mojave on a compatible machine, which this MacPro3,1 is not, even with a Metal-capable GPU. I'm using the @dosdude1 custom patches for Mojave on unsupported Macs. He mentions support for non-Metal cards only, here. He lists compatible cards for his patch. I'm getting one of them.

 

[tsialex]

Thanks, sounds like good advice for running Mojave on a compatible machine, which this MacPro3,1 is not, even with a Metal-capable GPU. I'm using the @dosdude1 custom patches for Mojave on unsupported Macs. He mentions support for non-Metal cards only, here. He lists compatible cards for his patch.

Your problem is that screen sharing starting with Mojave requires GPU acceleration. Test with High Sierra and see the difference.

 

[joshuafried]

Mojave with unaccelerated GPU is practically unbearable to use, even worse when being accessed remotely.

Get rid of your GT120 or go back to High Sierra, where the interface is not METAL dependent and the GT120 is still fully supported.

Thanks for this! But I need Mojave for compatibility with services and apps that I use.

Your problem is that screen sharing starting with Mojave requires GPU acceleration. Test with High Sierra and see the difference.

Appreciate this, thanks. I'm sure it would run much better using High Sierra. @dosdude1's post implies that I'll get GPU acceleration with a (non-metal) card such as Radeon HD4870 which I ordered. I'm referring to his thread here.

 

[tsialex]

Thanks for this! But I need Mojave for compatibility with services and apps that I use.

Appreciate this, thanks. I'm sure it would run much better using High Sierra. @dosdude1's post implies that I'll get GPU acceleration with a (non-metal) card such as Radeon HD4870 which I ordered. I'm referring to his thread here.

HD 4870 will continue to be slow as molasses, no METAL support. If you want performance, configure your Mac Pro in a way that you have to hack it as little as possible. You are seeing one of the performance adverse effects of hacking Mojave to work with GPUs long unsupported.

If you have to run Mojave, you should get a METAL GPU, the cheapest one is GT710 for ~$35, a better option is a $50~$60 GT 630 that can even be Mac EFI flashed.

4.1>5.1 W3520 to X5690 Upgrade Help!

Cheapest NVIDIA GT710 I could find today on eBay USA is $35 with free shipping within USA, no affiliation, I've found it cheaper some weeks ago. https://www.ebay.com/itm/384677182805?hash=item59908bfd55:g:5joAAOSwixph4DiE It's the weakest and cheapest METAL supported GPU, but works good if you...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[tsialex]

BTW, hacked QE/CI to offer OpenGL fallback minimum acceleration with Mojave will never match real METAL acceleration that a $57 GPU card like Nvidia GT 630 can get you.

 

[joshuafried]

HD 4870 will continue to be slow as molasses, no METAL support. If you want performance, configure your Mac Pro in a way that you have to hack it as little as possible. You are seeing one of the performance adverse effects of hacking Mojave to work with GPUs long unsupported.

If you have to run Mojave, you should get a METAL GPU, the cheapest one is GT710 for ~$35, a better option is a $50~$60 GT 630 that can even be Mac EFI flashed.

4.1>5.1 W3520 to X5690 Upgrade Help!

Cheapest NVIDIA GT710 I could find today on eBay USA is $35 with free shipping within USA, no affiliation, I've found it cheaper some weeks ago. https://www.ebay.com/itm/384677182805?hash=item59908bfd55:g:5joAAOSwixph4DiE It's the weakest and cheapest METAL supported GPU, but works good if you...

forums.macrumors.com

Agreed that best performance would be on a Mac Pro 5,1 with a Metal card. Interesting that @dosdude1 's list of compatibile cards with his patch for earlier Mac Pros are all pre-Metal. Also interesting that performance is just fine--until I try to share the screen.

 

[tsialex]

Agreed that best performance would be on a Mac Pro 5,1 with a Metal card. Interesting that @dosdude1 's list of compatibile cards with his patch for earlier Mac Pros are all pre-Metal. Also interesting that performance is just fine--until I try to share the screen.

When you hack Mojave to work with a non METAL GPU, the UI is running at OpenGL fallback acceleration. It works good enough if you don't need 3D or run apps that require METAL.

Screen sharing with Mojave requires METAL acceleration and when it's not available, the code will fall back to the CPU to cover the missing METAL acceleration, that's why is slow as molasses and the WindowServer CPU usage is so high.

A MacPro3,1 with a METAL GPU, like the $57 GT630, works almost as good with Mojave as a basic MacPro5,1.

 

[joshuafried]

BTW, hacked QE/CI to offer OpenGL fallback minimum acceleration with Mojave will never match real METAL acceleration that a $57 GPU card like Nvidia GT 630 can get you.

Thanks, interesting. Is that what @dosdude1 is doing (hacked qe/ci?). Don't need great performance, just not dismal. This is for file sharing, Logitech Media Server, and holds Time Machine backups.

I'm concerned that cards that @dosdude1 doesn't support won't work right with his system.

 

[tsialex]

Thanks, interesting. Is that what @dosdude1 is doing (hacked qe/ci?). Don't need great performance, just not dismal. This is for file sharing, Logitech Media Server, and holds Time Machine backups.

I'm concerned that cards that @dosdude1 doesn't support won't work right with his system.

You are looking this the wrong way. Forget hacked installs.

You don't try to meet the lowest requirements of a hacked install, you try to do what the macOS release that you want to run requires. For Mojave is METAL support.

A MacPro3,1 with a METAL supported GPU can run Mojave almost without any patches and with excellent performance. A MacPro3,1 running Mojave with a GPU without METAL have several problems, one of them is affecting you right now, screen sharing.

 

[joshuafried]

When you hack Mojave to work with a non METAL GPU, the UI is running at OpenGL fallback acceleration. It works good enough if you don't need 3D or run apps that require METAL.

Screen sharing with Mojave requires METAL acceleration and when it's not available, the code will fall back to the CPU to cover the missing METAL acceleration, that's why is slow as molasses and the WindowServer CPU usage is so high.

A MacPro3,1 with a METAL GPU, like the $57 GT630, works almost as good with Mojave as a basic MacPro5,1.

Well, that sounds great, but MacPro3,1 doesn't support Mojave without some kind of tinkering and I opted for @dosdude1's . Maybe I should instead look into the firmware flashing I've heard about. Sounds like you're saying I'll be stuck until I change my approach.

 

[tsialex]

Well, that sounds great, but MacPro3,1 doesn't support Mojave without some kind of tinkering and I opted for @dosdude1's . Maybe I should instead look into the firmware flashing I've heard about

There is no firmware cross-flashing for MacPro3,1, you are mistaken.

Anyway, nothing that you can hack will ever cover the missing METAL supported GPU. Mojave, and all subsequent macOS releases, requires METAL.

Btw, even if you want to continue to use hacked Mojave via dosdude1 patches, METAL GPUs are fully supported by it - you just don't select GPU patching or something like it at the options. I forgot the exact name, someone that still run a MacPro3,1 can help you with exactly what you have to select/unselect.

 

[joshuafried]

There is no firmware cross-flashing for MacPro3,1, you are mistaken.

Anyway, nothing that you can hack will ever cover the missing METAL supported GPU. Mojave, and all subsequent macOS releases, requires METAL.

Btw, even if you want to continue to use hacked Mojave via dosdude1 patches, METAL GPUs are fully supported by it - you just don't select GPU patching or something like it at the options. I forgot the exact name, someone that still run a MacPro3,1 can help you with exactly what you have to select/unselect.

Well, what you say sounds perfect and I wish I had known this before I bought the non-metal card! I'll check the link(s) you posted..

 

[joshuafried]

There is no firmware cross-flashing for MacPro3,1, you are mistaken.

Anyway, nothing that you can hack will ever cover the missing METAL supported GPU. Mojave, and all subsequent macOS releases, requires METAL.

Btw, even if you want to continue to use hacked Mojave via dosdude1 patches, METAL GPUs are fully supported by it - you just don't select GPU patching or something like it at the options. I forgot the exact name, someone that still run a MacPro3,1 can help you with exactly what you have to select/unselect.

OK, I ordered a flashed GT630. Hope I don't have to redo those options, but if so not a huge hassle. Thanks for all this.

 

[tsialex]

OK, I ordered a flashed GT630.

Way to go, it's the solution for screen sharing.

Hope I don't have to redo those options, but if so not a huge hassle. Thanks for all this.

I'm sure that the patches for non-METAL GPU support are incompatible with METAL GPUs, you will need to remove it. Asking on the Mojave unsupported thread what exactly you have to do is the way to go with this one, I only ever run Mojave on a MacPro3,1 with METAL GPUs.

 

[joshuafried]

Way to go, it's the solution for screen sharing.

I'm sure that the patches for non-METAL GPU support are incompatible with METAL GPUs, you will need to remove it. Asking on the Mojave unsupported thread what exactly you have to do is the way to go with this one, I only ever run Mojave on a MacPro3,1 with METAL GPUs.

That sounds wise, thanks!!

 

[Macschrauber]

You have to re install Mojave on the 3.1 without the legacy gpu option.

I use a dosdude Mojave MP3,1 as a daily driver at the moment with a Kepler GPU and it is rock solid and stable.

 

[joshuafried]

You have to re install Mojave on the 3.1 without the legacy gpu option.

I use a dosdude Mojave MP3,1 as a daily driver at the moment with a Kepler GPU and it is rock solid and stable.

great, thanks.

 

[joshuafried]

@tsialex, @Macschrauber, everyone, you were right of course. Latency gone. Strangely though, the small display I was using to install and configure (before going headless) now goes dark just before login. A few seconds later, the screen sharing starts. It's VGA via an DVI-VGA adaptor. A DVI monitor works fine.

 

[tsialex]

@tsialex, @Macschrauber, everyone, you were right of course. Latency gone. Strangely though, the small display I was using to install and configure (before going headless) now goes dark just before login. A few seconds later, the screen sharing starts. It's VGA via an DVI-VGA adaptor. A DVI monitor works fine.

I don't remember exactly what macOS release, but from at least Mojave you can't use the analog signal from a DVI connection to have VGA anymore, Apple disabled it from the drivers.

 

[joshuafried]

I don't remember exactly what macOS release, but from at least Mojave you can't use the analog signal from a DVI connection to have VGA anymore, Apple disabled it from the drivers.

That makes sense, if you assume that dosdude's legacy video patcher (or some other patch) *restored* the analog signal... DVI=>VGA *did* work using the pre-Metal card. Now that I have the metal card (with your kind help) I've disabled the legacy card patcher and experience the blanking.