Second-Generation AirPods Pro Rumored to Launch This Fall, New AirPods Max Colors Also in the Works

[Realityck]

The new AirPods Pro could feature a more compact design that sees away with the stem, coupled with a new charging case and lossless audio support over a new protocol.

Lossless is not something you can easily add to either AirPod Pro or AirPod Max. Bluetooth is the issue with that, so what are they going to change? Looking for something akin to Sony's LDAC to be implemented that gives you near lossless rather than lossy audio would be a major improvement.

Here is a list of the current bit rates in relation to Bluetooth audio standards

• SBC — 200 to 328kbps
• AAC — 128 to 256kbps
• LC3 — 160 to 345kbps
• LDAC — 300kbps, 660kbps, 990kbps
• aptX — 352kbps
• aptX HD — 576kbps
• aptX Adaptive — 279 to 420kbps
• aptX Lossless — 120kbps to >1Mbps

 

[wanha]

As for the AirPods Max, Apple is not expected to be working on a second-generation model of the over-ear headphones that launched in December 2020. Instead, Apple is thought to be working on new color options.

So MacRumors is suggesting the AirPods Max have been discontinued after gen1?

Just because Gurman says he's expecting new colors to launch soon does NOT mean they are not working on a second-generation model of the headphones.

 

[bushman4]

I don’t like the fact that those buds are disposable. As the battery life span runs out, they end up in the 🗑.

Battery usually lasts 2-3 years depending on use. Unfortunately very pricey to get new battery. It’s not worth it
That’s why Apple waits 3 years to come up with a new model as many people would rather buy a new one than replace battery. Stemless buds have been out now for 2 years so Apple waiting for the right time frame to maximize sales

 

[MrRom92]

If they support lossless I will buy them
If they can not wirelessly achieve a digital audio standard established over 40 years ago then maybe it’s still time for wires

 

[Realityck]

If they support lossless I will buy them
If they can not wirelessly achieve a digital audio standard established over 40 years ago then maybe it’s still time for wires

Good speculation about what could be next from a few months back concerning the Bluetooth debacle with AirPod Pro and AirPod Max. Perhaps WWDC will also show some tidbits that tell us how this will be accomplished without wires.

 

[B/D]

Max with LDAC-like codec to stream hi-fi music…or at least have usb-c…. otherwise why have lossless option?

You can differentiate between AAC 256 VBR files from Apple Music (encoded with apple propietary encoder, the best in the industry) and lossless on a pair of over ear ANC headphones?.

 

[Realityck]

You can differentiate between AAC 256 VBR files from Apple Music (encoded with apple propietary encoder, the best in the industry) and lossless on a pair of over ear ANC headphones?.

Theres a problem, you don't want to have ANC involved with higher bitrate audio that approaches CD quality. Apple has tiptoed around the industry, they don't offer anything stellar with audio IMHO. The Apple TV music app even with HDMI out to a AVR system is not true lossless.

Example

1. Go to Settings > Apps.
2. Select Music.
3. Select Audio Quality.
4. Select or unselect Lossless. Apple TV 4K currently doesn’t support Hi-Res Lossless (sample rates greater than 48 kHz).

So Apple likes to use terminology to imply they offer lossless, but you really need an external digital-to-analog converter to get into hi-res lossless audio. The best in the industry doesn't mean much these days sadly.

 

[B/D]

Theres a problem, you don't want to have ANC involved with higher bitrate audio that approaches CD quality. Apple has tiptoed around the industry, they don't offer anything stellar with audio IMHO. The Apple TV music app even with HDMI out to a AVR system is not true lossless.

Example

1. Go to Settings > Apps.
2. Select Music.
3. Select Audio Quality.
4. Select or unselect Lossless. Apple TV 4K currently doesn’t support Hi-Res Lossless (sample rates greater than 48 kHz).

So Apple likes to use terminology to imply they offer lossless, but you really need an external digital-to-analog converter to get into hi-res lossless audio. The best in the industry doesn't mean much these days sadly.

Hi-Res lossless is... not necessary IMHO. 16/44 covers everything necessary from an audible point of view.


You dont need more that CD quality audio (regular lossless). And that is with a decent equipment in a treated room. For 99% of use cases, AAC 256 is transparent and overkill.


In the case of the Apple TV, i am more concerned with the fact that currently the device resamples everything to 24/48khz. IOS and audioOS (homepods operating system), offer bitperfect playback for Apple Music content, but not Mac Os or tvOS.


As far as apple audio hardware offering, for what they are, the regular airpods (current gen), are very decent. Reasonably balanced sound signature, clear and pleasant. None of that beats nonsense fortunately.

As for the Airpods Max, they are the best current ANC heapdhones sound quality wise, IMHO... which only amounts for "quite good", because Apple are not, and never have been, the best in the industry regarding audio.

In none of these cases is lossless needed.

 

[Mr. Dee]

I found a pair of Beats Solo in the garbage which is why I have yet to buy either an AirPods Pro or Max. But when I
do upgrade to the iPhone 15 Pro Max next year, I am inclined to go with AirPod Max. They are just way more comfortable and immersive. Hopefully that price drop does come with the next rev.

 

[Realityck]

Hi-Res lossless is... not necessary IMHO. 16/44 covers everything necessary from an audible point of view.

You dont need more that CD quality audio (regular lossless). And that is with a decent equipment in a treated room. For 99% of use cases, AAC 256 is transparent and overkill.

In the case of the Apple TV, i am more concerned with the fact that currently the device resamples everything to 24/48khz. IOS and audioOS (homepods operating system), offer bitperfect playback for Apple Music content, but not Mac Os or tvOS.

As far as apple audio hardware offering, for what they are, the regular airpods (current gen), are very decent. Reasonably balanced sound signature, clear and pleasant. None of that beats nonsense fortunately.

As for the Airpods Max, they are the best current ANC heapdhones sound quality wise, IMHO... which only amounts for "quite good", because Apple are not, and never have been, the best in the industry regarding audio.

In none of these cases is lossless needed.

The last statement is very true considering that you are only dealing with stereo, and smaller transducers with limited audio reproduction properties like their AirPods series and Beats headphone series.

A Mac can certainly be used for Hi-Res audio playback from files, even multi channel, using USB-C to quality DAC and related audio gear going a good speakers system as a example. So not sure why you mentioned MacOS at all?

Reproduction has more about imaging, attack/decay of frequency amplitudes generated by transducer mediums. (Dynamic Electro-Mechanical, Planar/Ribbon, Electrostatic). It's not about you can't hear the difference on gear that is incapable of showing differences. Thats like telling everyone that a $400 65" 4K TV video quality is no different to a $4000 65" 4K TV video quality from a good manufacturer.

 

[B/D]

I only mentioned Mac Os at all in the context that, very much like the apple tv, it currently cannot do bitperfect playback within the Apple Music app, which is true. You have to change it manually with the Midi app.

 

[vegetassj4]

Waiting on the rumored AirPod Studios:

 

[j_in_tx]

$550 seems like a lot and is, but the utility and value seems reasonable in this new inflation environment. Plus add in tax and the wired cable. Despite the cost, it is something I use everyday for my work. Even if I had to go into the office, I’d still use it at work. I’m sure Teams and zoom meetings will still be the norm after going into the office becomes more accepted. Using the Max is way better than using AirPods/AirPods Pro for work. I have had all 3.

 

[newdeal]

I hope they fix ANC so it doesn’t crackle. Major design failure in the APP: #cracklegate

FWIW I have Bose QC35s (multiple sets) and have had Bose quiet comfort earbuds and quiet comfort wired headphones. They all crackle. Just tried my wife's AirPods Pro the last couple days, they certainly don't crackle more than the Bose do and might crackle less

 

[5425642]

$550 seems like a lot and is, but the utility and value seems reasonable in this new inflation environment. Plus add in tax and the wired cable. Despite the cost, it is something I use everyday for my work. Even if I had to go into the office, I’d still use it at work. I’m sure Teams and zoom meetings will still be the norm after going into the office becomes more accepted. Using the Max is way better than using AirPods/AirPods Pro for work. I have had all 3.

Cable?

 

[discuit]

Select or unselect Lossless. Apple TV 4K currently doesn’t support Hi-Res Lossless (sample rates greater than 48 kHz).

You do know that 48 kHz sample rate is sufficient to encode the entire human hearing range, right? There is no purpose for audio meant for listening to sample any faster. There are some limited use cases for higher sample rate on the production side only.

 

[Realityck]

Cable?

Related #6

 

[Realityck]

You do know that 48 kHz sample rate is sufficient to encode the entire human hearing range, right? There is no purpose for audio meant for listening to sample any faster. There are some limited use cases for higher sample rate on the production side only.

A [Mathematical] Analysis of Sample Rates and Audio Quality – Techbytes

blogs.umass.edu

So then, what can be said about recording at higher sample rates? Some new analog-to-digital converts for musical recording sample at 192 kHz. Most, if not all, of the audio recording I do is done at a sample rate of 96 kHz. The benefit to recording at the higher sample rates is that you can recording high-frequency noise without it causing aliasing and distortion in the audible range. With 96 kHz, you get a full 28 kHz of bandwidth beyond the audible range where noise can exist without causing problems.

 

[B/D]

A [Mathematical] Analysis of Sample Rates and Audio Quality – Techbytes

blogs.umass.edu

So then, what can be said about recording at higher sample rates? Some new analog-to-digital converts for musical recording sample at 192 kHz. Most, if not all, of the audio recording I do is done at a sample rate of 96 kHz. The benefit to recording at the higher sample rates is that you can recording high-frequency noise without it causing aliasing and distortion in the audible range. With 96 kHz, you get a full 28 kHz of bandwidth beyond the audible range where noise can exist without causing problems.

There is benefit for recording, yes. For music playback, non at all, even with the best equipment and room in the world. And dont forget that you have to have the ears for it as well.

In fact, have you tried do to do an ABX blind test between a regular lossless file and its AAC 256kbps counterpart?.

The vast majority of people dont pass it.

 

[- rob -]

Lossless is not something you can easily add to either AirPod Pro or AirPod Max. Bluetooth is the issue with that, so what are they going to change?

They are building their own tech. See:

“so we have to concentrate very hard on squeezing the most that we can out of the Bluetooth technology, and there’s a number of tricks we can play to maximise or get around some of the limits of Bluetooth. But it’s fair to say that we would like more bandwidth and… I’ll stop right there. We would like more bandwidth”, he smiles.”

-Gary geaves,
Apple VP of Accoustics
12/21: https://www.whathifi.com/features/i...apples-airpods-we-asked-the-man-who-made-them

$550 seems like a lot and is, but the utility and value seems reasonable in this new inflation environment. Plus add in tax and the wired cable. Despite the cost, it is something I use everyday for my work. Even if I had to go into the office, I’d still use it at work. I’m sure Teams and zoom meetings will still be the norm after going into the office becomes more accepted. Using the Max is way better than using AirPods/AirPods Pro for work. I have had all 3.

Ya this is like the Blackmagic egpu. People get sticker shock and won’t realize the utility. The Max’s are worth the money.

Regardless, I agree w the other poster above that Gurman is almost definitely wrong about no plans to refresh the Max with the same improved bandwidth and Lower latency capabilities coming in the pros.

I disagree they should get usbc though. Rn you can charge the trackpad, keyboard, iPhone, AirPods Pro and the Max’s w the same cable. Why change this low power one out for usbc?

 

[Realityck]

There is benefit for recording, yes. For music playback, non at all, even with the best equipment and room in the world. And dont forget that you have to have the ears for it as well.

In fact, have you tried do to do an ABX blind test between a regular lossless file and its AAC 256kbps counterpart?.

The vast majority of people dont pass it.

Like anything you have train yourself to notice the differences with the right examples. I always thought percussion examples are a wonderful way to judge audio quality. As drum solos go I used to use the Drum Solo from Tubes 1977 album - What do you want from Live (Live from Hammersmith Odeon), its track 13. For this to succeed wonderfully you need to have audio reproduced correctly from the attack/decay of when you hit drums, so there is no ringing or sustained audio past the point you would actually hear if your were at a recording session or concert. Too much audio out there is not distinct enough to recognizes the actual instrument impressions, it's too mixed with a lot of different instrumentation. It's usually those examples that people can't tell the difference. I heard some fabulous 2.1 setups as far as speakers that actually reproduce a concert hall wonderfully. If we were to do these ABX blind tests looking at a good lossless file versus the usual AAC 256kbps equivalent using a setup like that it might be more enlightening. But then how many people even experience something like that.

 

[0924487]

That's true to an extent, but if you take them to the Apple shop, they'll recycle them for you, unlike a lot of other true wireless buds.

But you have to buy the whole thing every two years or so, instead of buying the battery, which would cost around $20.

 

[j_in_tx]

Cable?

Instead of using Bluetooth

 

[44267547]

Ready to replace my APP's with better fitting tips, lossless sound, better Spatial Audio & Dolby Atmos performance.

There’s a decent variety of third party tips that totally can accommodate to any ear canal on Amazon. The tips is probably the last considerable improvement Apple will make. ‘Spatial audio’ seems more hyped, and it’s kinda inconsistent technology with other manufacturers who use it, but Dolby would be the main selling point for me as well, So I’ll give you points for that upgrade.

 

[flur]

FWIW I have Bose QC35s (multiple sets) and have had Bose quiet comfort earbuds and quiet comfort wired headphones. They all crackle. Just tried my wife's AirPods Pro the last couple days, they certainly don't crackle more than the Bose do and might crackle less

I have QC35s and QC earbuds. I also have QC25s and QC15s. What is this “crackle” you speak of? I’ve never heard any kind of crackling.