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Second-Generation iPad to Gain Carbon Fiber Body?

bandalay said:
I think the primary added benefit of CF is weight, not strength.

Given that the aluminum case is a quarter of the weight of the object it's an important direction to consider. If they can unify the glass with the LCD as they have with the iPhone, they can lose another quarter.
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I'm not 100% sure but I think it would be possible for them to make a carbon fiber housing for an ipad that was even stronger than the aluminum housing as well

doesnt apple use only 6061 grade aluminum?

I've heard that some grades of carbon fiber are stronger than certain grades of aluminum especially if engineered to be
 
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MacCurry said:
the only problem is that the current aluminum case also serves as a high gain antenna and that will be problematic.
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Right. My guess (FWIW) is that Apple stretches carbon fiber (or whatever, but probably carbon fiber) over a (possibly) Liquid Metal grid. Because it's a grid and not solid metal, you wind up with more (or at least, equivalent, depending on the grid design) overall surface area than a solid metal sheet. So there's your antenna, and the needed rigidity for the iPad. (I assume a carbon fiber weave requires something to give it stability. You seem to know much more about it than me, though.)

A weave stretched over a grid also sounds ideal for allowing heat dissipation, although again I am just guessing there.

A weave stretched over a grid is also definitely lighter than a solid piece of metal (no guessing needed in that regard), and we all know Apple wants to make the iPad lighter.

Certainly this seems like something of an exotic (but logical) construction, and Apple has shown a passion for that in recent years.
 
geko29 said:
I don't think that's the case (no pun intended). The wifi antennas peek through RF-transparent "windows" in the front bezel and behind the apple logo on the back. 3G models have a large section of the aluminum cut out and replaced with plastic so its antennas can function. I'm 99% sure none of the radios are in any way attached (electrically) to the aluminum shell.

Carbon Fiber, on the other hand, is relatively transparent to RF, so it would eliminate the need for many of the "tricks" Apple currently has to use to get decent wireless performance out of the iPad.
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I think you may have misunderstood - I was talking about antenna gain. I agree the carbon fiber case can be RF-transparent, but the existing aluminum case serves as a high gain antenna. To get the same gain with the new carbon fiber case, Apple would have to use a series of wires or aluminum foil type material very close to the electronics. Or as you said, it could be the case where Apple doesn't have to use tricks to get the same RF power density levels with aluminum. I wonder if there is any public data on the iPad RF power density levels for typical use? There could be an issue of proper grounding and heat dissipation. It will be interesting to see if this rumor pans out and how they build it addressing such engineering issues.
 
be careful not to judge carbon fiber by some of the cheap after-market accessories you may have seem at autozone. Some of those are basically wall paper covered with gloss to try to look like carbon fiber.

Real carbon fiber is an awesome material - check out real world utalization in things like high end photo tripods, stringed instrument bows, etc. With skill, like I'm sure apply would employee it is a nice sexy looking material.

Regarding cold tolerance. When layed up as a 25 square foot hood, exposed to a nigth in the snow, and then 100 MPH over a pot hole - there are stories of CF not holding up. But as a case, no worried. It's certainly betetr than the 3G black plastic cae that survived several falls.

This is not an arguement that carbon fiber wouldn't be a problem with radio signals or heat conduction, but just a comment about the material itself - it is really, really cool stuff! :)
 
Popeye206 said:
I don't see it... they would go liquid metal before carbon fiber. They've already said this by investing in liquid metal.
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I wish you were right. Apple doesn't have the injection molding machines in their possession yet. I think Liquidmetal will happen but not for another 12 months. Good things come to those who wait!!!
 
I think :apple: would go liquid metal before carbon fiber...

Personally, I like the look of the aluminum that the current iPad has but if they look to switch everything over to liquid metal in the future (iMac, MBP, iPhone, etc) then having a liquid metal iPad would look a lot better than a liquid metal iPad and everything else staying the same...just my thoughts
 
franswa za said:
just waiting for the Liquidmetal fans to start up again..........
:D

too late...... it's started already....... people, do some research on liquidmetal...... if it was applicable/economically viable, apple would already have used it..........

and a group of us tried to contact them to purchase shares/stocks......... months ago, we are still waiting for a reply............ something is wrong over there.........
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Try calling your broker. The ticker symbol is LQMT. I own 60,000 shares.
 
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scott911 said:
be careful not to judge carbon fiber by some of the cheap after-market accessories you may have seem at autozone. Some of those are basically wall paper covered with gloss to try to look like carbon fiber.

Real carbon fiber is an awesome material - check out real world utalization in things like high end photo tripods, stringed instrument bows, etc. With skill, like I'm sure apply would employee it is a nice sexy looking material.

Regarding cold tolerance. When layed up as a 25 square foot hood, exposed to a nigth in the snow, and then 100 MPH over a pot hole - there are stories of CF not holding up. But as a case, no worried. It's certainly betetr than the 3G black plastic cae that survived several falls.

This is not an arguement that carbon fiber wouldn't be a problem with radio signals or heat conduction, but just a comment about the material itself - it is really, really cool stuff! :)
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Dry carbon fiber is the real deal. It is extremely expensive and labor intensive to manufacture. It needs to be done in a vacuum.
 
My thoughts (an aerospace engineer who designs carbon fiber parts):

- There's no temperature problems with Carbon Fiber. It has a low coefficient of thermal expansion (CTE), a lot lower than aluminum, so dimensionally it would stay very constant.

- I'd be surprised if Apple went carbon fiber... It is stronger per pound than aluminum... but it is also THICKER for the same strength. So... to maintain the same strength as current designs, they'd actually get thicker and anyone who knows Apple knows, they'd favor Thinner over lighter.

- It is more costly to manufacture. Primarily due to labor... Machining aluminum is a very automated process. Making carbon fiber parts, while it is getting more automated each year, still has more hands on labor involved.

- It's also costly to manufacture because you have to add metal parts for attaching things... You can't create threads in carbon fiber like you can with aluminum. So when you want to attach a mother board to a carbon fiber case, you'd need to add metal parts for the screws to screw into. Adds significant complexity.

- It is terrible for heat transfer... One of the really nice things about the aluminum MacBooks is that they act a giant heat-sink and help dissipate the heat generated by the processors. Without this, you'd need faster and/or larger fans. Again... not very Apple...

- It's exterior can vary because it is molded. If Apple wanted to mold in a textured surface, they could... they could also make it as smooth as glass.

- Supply problems... not a problem for a consumer product. The quality of carbon fiber used in aircraft (like what I work on) is completely different than that in bicycles, tripods, and a laptop...

- It's also terrible to recycle. It's one of the big questions facing the aerospace industry. What will they do with 787's in 20-30 years when they retire them. Right now, you can melt down aircraft parts and make new ones... Apple has gotten a lot of heat for environmental issues in the past, so I think they'd avoid them with carbon fiber.



But as Antenna-gate showed... If Steve thinks it looks good, he could ignore all the above reasons...
 
ShiftyPig said:
Oh dear, people getting precious about the quality of rumors. They're rumors.
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Actualy Gruber raises a very valid point here. Too many gadget sites report rumours from sources that don't have a clue about the truth of what they're saying and the sites then report these rumours as fact. This, in turn, feeds out into the wider web and expectations get raised to unrealistic heights. When the actual product comes out with features that were never realistic in the first place people get huffy and the companies involved suffer.

In fact Engadget of ALL places should know better considering they managed to knock $4 BILLION off Apple's share price by printing a fake e-mail about delays to the original iPhone and Leopard. In this particular case it's ridiculous that they're claiming it's down to an 11th hour change when the FAR more likely answer is they believed a source that was simply wrong (or possibly confused a prototype for a later model with a pre-production unit or something like that).
 
MacCurry said:
I think you may have misunderstood - I was talking about antenna gain. I agree the carbon fiber case can be RF-transparent, but the existing aluminum case serves as a high gain antenna.
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Do you have a reference for this? I can't find any mention of it anywhere.
 
Cool. Would be cutting edge if proven true. Certainly possible in some future generation. Strong enough for planes, it probably will work for an iPad.
 
glinty bling

The aluminum enclosure is a vestige of the electronic fetish era in gadget design, and has to go. A carbon body that neither threatens furniture nor vice versa is what should have been since version 1. Tying the form to Apple's products of the past was mistaken. This will be a requisite development for the evolution of the new paradigm of ubiquitous e~reader/writer.
 
Well, the aluminum on the current isn't durable - easily dented, scratched, chaps. A change would be welcomed.
 
A little skeptical of various claims of "high-gain" antenna use of current iPad case. Not consistent with my studies in this field. Would be interested in learning otherwise of course. Can these statements be backed with some references or links regarding Apple use as such?
 
geko29 said:
Do you have a reference for this? I can't find any mention of it anywhere.
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I doubt high gain WiFi antenna of any kind is a good idea for a consumer product. High gain is actually a misnomer. Antennas do not have any "real" gain or amplification. If they provide better reception in one direction, that means reception is worse in another. WiFi routers can be in various locations in a room, high up on a bookshelf, down on the carpet behind the couch. iPad can be held anywhere from flat on a table to almost vertical to serve as a screen while watching a movie. Which direction would you like to give up for your reception?

In any case, if it was true, the teardown photos would show a thin cable connecting the case to the antenna connector on the board. It would make it into every Apple fan site or tech blog.
 
Carbon fiber? Nah...

There are so many issues with carbon fiber construction. Just ask Boeing about the issues they have encountered with the new 'Dreamliner' project.

It's not like it's an easy process. It requires time, pressure, heat, and chemicals and while it's light, it's not very sturdy over time. Plus carbon fiber does crack and can craze... It's not very 'sunlight friendly' either.

I'd rather see Apple (in a 'world of pain' vs benefit ratio) go to using Bluray than using carbon fiber. It's a lot harder than programming a CNC machine to have at it on a block of aluminum and a lot less precise. And there goes their price I'd imagine... UP! There are after all, reasons to do things. The uni-body MBP's was a fantastic idea. A CF iPad? Hmm... But what will be, will be...

(In this day and age, why not make it out of Kevlar and make it bullet proof.)
 
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I don't think Apple would switch to carbon fiber. Right now, aluminum case of Apple products are a clear indicator of quality for consumers, as Apple's competitors are using cheap plastic or -worse- fake metal shells. Fiber might be more expensive and stronger, but on the outside it looks the same as plastic. It does not give the same feeling of quality. Only the tech fans would know that Apple is using the better material, most consumers would not.
 
Benjy91 said:
11411.jpg


3 types of Carbon Fibre option used on the Sony Vaio's.
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are those suppose to be carbon fiber? they just look like carbon "like" coatings
 
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