I like it. Very light and fits great. Did have the pad issues but I was able to adjust them. Didn't try their wraps as I already had some on. No issues with signal loss at home but will see how it is around town tomorrow.
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Sector 5 from Element Case order thread.
- Thread starter PerPlekz
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I like it. Very light and fits great. Did have the pad issues but I was able to adjust them. Didn't try their wraps as I already had some on. No issues with signal loss at home but will see how it is around town tomorrow.
Yup.
I have tested with a real carbon fiber back on my real iPhone 5.
And the signal is really degraded for real. ;-)
Having little fun ...
Interestingly the same type of cf does not decrease signal in an iPhone 4
Per half it's due to the new design !?
What ever the case, uou can cut the top and bottom portion that block the glass off . This would be fine ! I've done it ;-) alike Sticker boy back sticker.
Have fun.
I noticed, and I think that is extremely cool of not only Element Case, but of the buyer as well.
I'm waiting for my Sector 5 to arrive, and I'm extremely eager. I too feel that it is an exceptionally well designed and engineered case, as with everything that comes out of Element Case.
As others have stated, I treat Element's products as though they are an extension of the iPhone. Just like any accessory, they make you stand out from the crowd. Those who have compared it to an Otterbox or other case featuring protection as its primary function obviously don't understand. I have tried many different cases (including LifeProof, Speck, Incase, iSkin, etc.) and none of them compare to Element Case. I honestly don't ENJOY my phone the way I do when I'm rocking an Element Case. The protection that the Sector 5 offers is merely a bonus, because I purchased my ultimate protection in the form of AppleCare+.
I've owned numerous Element Case products as well (from a nickel Vapor 4 to a Vapor R8 Pro), and the response I get from people when they see them is astounding. People are often flabbergasted that someone would put that much thought and engineering into something so simple. All I know is that I'm thankful that Element Case exists, because everything else is subpar in my opinion.
-Shane
Right on man. I agree whole heartedly
front lip is there its slight, --flush with a regular screen protector.
Yes the carbon fiber backplate causes signal degradation -- don't use it. Use the ultra suede backplate.
Yea too bad about the carbon fiber backing -- I was using it too. As much as I love my case, I'm saddened they didn't see the issue with the carbon fiber backing. Ultra suede looks really good though.
Im reaching out to them today to see if they can send an optional backplate.
But yes, there is a lip in the front if you don't use a screen protector.
The back lip is larger
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Great news guys.
To those bummed about the Carbon Fiber Backplate. I reached out to Element case and told them of the issues. I asked could I get another backplate to my choosing. They are offering me my choice of ultrasuede backplate!
Element case is just fantastic!
To those bummed about the Carbon Fiber Backplate. I reached out to Element case and told them of the issues. I asked could I get another backplate to my choosing. They are offering me my choice of ultrasuede backplate!
Element case is just fantastic!
but the backplate that I wanted to use was the carbon fiber. I can only imagine how that ultrasuede will look after a year or 2
I hear ya. The problem is that the carbon fiber backplate is real carbon fiber. Which is awesome, but not for signal.
The Lucky labs, and sticker boy have texture backings which use polycarbonate to resemble carbon fiber. Which are awesome. I suggest you look into those
I have just received my Sector 5 case today - and I'm very sad to report that I will be immediately requesting a return tomorrow. I can say without exaggeration that this is one of the most disappointing iphone accessories I've ever purchased. I don't have photos ready - but I just want to share some key observations for those who are still on the fence (don't do it!! ) since most of my qualms are not easily identified from a picture.
- First the packaging - this really doesn't matter, but somehow it makes a bad impression in the very beginning. The packaging/container design is fine, but the printing on the boxes is very low quality, even worse that that of an average home printer. Compared to other premium brands (e.g. Vaja, Apple's own products) it simply creates a poor first impression.
- Second the case - the metal does not feel nice at all. The vast majority of aluminium cases I've used are nicely polished and smooth with very nature colors, but the Sector 5 feels like... well like a piece of metal you'd buy from Home Depot or something. It feels "industrial" or "military-grade" if that's how you want to think about it, but it frankly just feels very rough and uncomfortable to me. The gray color is also very flat, instead of the slightly shiny and jewel-like sheen that high quality, well-treated aluminium cases have. However it looks pretty decent as long as you don't stare too closely.
edit: I want to clarify that this isn't just a matte/polished metal distinction. I've felt the matte el3ctron case before and it's nowhere near as rough.
Also already mentioned before - the case is cut very sharp. Very sharp. If you grip it will be highly uncomfortable and leave light marks on your hand. I have never, ever held a case that felt quite as painful to be honest.
As a reference - my all-time favourite is the el3ctron s4 in terms of design, quality and overall craftsmanship, but the Sector 5 is a far cry from that despite nearly double the cost.
- The carbon fiber back kills signal, as already discussed. However what hasn't been mentioned though is that it's really not as high quality as the other more established carbon fiber options out there. I understand some CF protectors are thin and very bendable, others are a bit thicker but feel much more "heavy-duty". Well the Sector 5 is neither. It's not that thin (definitely thicker than a sheet of paper) and feels a bit... "paper-like" in that it bends too softly and doesn't have the marginally rigid feel that expensive covers do.
- The suede cover is alright, but it frankly doesn't feel or feel any better than what you can get by buying a sheet of suede somewhere and cut/paste it yourself. Also it looks like it can get rather dirty quick since it's a light-ish gray.
- Another major problem, although this might be specific to my case, is that it simply didn't fit perfectly. The left side (SIM-card side) has a slight flex to it, so if I press the side it gives a very small click. I adjusted the case quite a few times but to no avail.
- All of the above may be considered subjective, but I think the last and absolutely worst design problem is the area around the ring/silence switch. You can see even from stock photos that the case is very bulky around the upper left area, and (this has also been mentioned in this thread I believe), this makes the ring/silence switch very recessed. It becomes almost impossible to just use your thumb to "brush" the switch up and down, like how I usually do it. You have to literally put your finger in the crevice and use your nail/fingertip to toggle it. It's just as inconvenient and uncomfortable as you'd imagine.
All that said - the case is very good looking in general. It just seems like they rushed the process, cut a few corners, and forgo way, way too much function for form. I'm more than willing to pay for luxury products that serve more as eye-candy than utilitarian reasons, but it was hard to justify Sector 5 even with its excellent appearance.
Sorry for the long post - I just want to provide some details because I think it's too easy to be caught up on the immediate "coolness" and forget about the actual experience of using it. I think Element can easily fix all of the problems, so I'll undoubtedly keep a close eye on future revisions.
-
) since most of my qualms are not easily identified from a picture.- First the packaging - this really doesn't matter, but somehow it makes a bad impression in the very beginning. The packaging/container design is fine, but the printing on the boxes is very low quality, even worse that that of an average home printer. Compared to other premium brands (e.g. Vaja, Apple's own products) it simply creates a poor first impression.
- Second the case - the metal does not feel nice at all. The vast majority of aluminium cases I've used are nicely polished and smooth with very nature colors, but the Sector 5 feels like... well like a piece of metal you'd buy from Home Depot or something. It feels "industrial" or "military-grade" if that's how you want to think about it, but it frankly just feels very rough and uncomfortable to me. The gray color is also very flat, instead of the slightly shiny and jewel-like sheen that high quality, well-treated aluminium cases have. However it looks pretty decent as long as you don't stare too closely.
edit: I want to clarify that this isn't just a matte/polished metal distinction. I've felt the matte el3ctron case before and it's nowhere near as rough.
Also already mentioned before - the case is cut very sharp. Very sharp. If you grip it will be highly uncomfortable and leave light marks on your hand. I have never, ever held a case that felt quite as painful to be honest.
As a reference - my all-time favourite is the el3ctron s4 in terms of design, quality and overall craftsmanship, but the Sector 5 is a far cry from that despite nearly double the cost.
- The carbon fiber back kills signal, as already discussed. However what hasn't been mentioned though is that it's really not as high quality as the other more established carbon fiber options out there. I understand some CF protectors are thin and very bendable, others are a bit thicker but feel much more "heavy-duty". Well the Sector 5 is neither. It's not that thin (definitely thicker than a sheet of paper) and feels a bit... "paper-like" in that it bends too softly and doesn't have the marginally rigid feel that expensive covers do.
- The suede cover is alright, but it frankly doesn't feel or feel any better than what you can get by buying a sheet of suede somewhere and cut/paste it yourself. Also it looks like it can get rather dirty quick since it's a light-ish gray.
- Another major problem, although this might be specific to my case, is that it simply didn't fit perfectly. The left side (SIM-card side) has a slight flex to it, so if I press the side it gives a very small click. I adjusted the case quite a few times but to no avail.
- All of the above may be considered subjective, but I think the last and absolutely worst design problem is the area around the ring/silence switch. You can see even from stock photos that the case is very bulky around the upper left area, and (this has also been mentioned in this thread I believe), this makes the ring/silence switch very recessed. It becomes almost impossible to just use your thumb to "brush" the switch up and down, like how I usually do it. You have to literally put your finger in the crevice and use your nail/fingertip to toggle it. It's just as inconvenient and uncomfortable as you'd imagine.
All that said - the case is very good looking in general. It just seems like they rushed the process, cut a few corners, and forgo way, way too much function for form. I'm more than willing to pay for luxury products that serve more as eye-candy than utilitarian reasons, but it was hard to justify Sector 5 even with its excellent appearance.
Sorry for the long post - I just want to provide some details because I think it's too easy to be caught up on the immediate "coolness" and forget about the actual experience of using it. I think Element can easily fix all of the problems, so I'll undoubtedly keep a close eye on future revisions.
-
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I have just received my Sector 5 case today - and I'm very sad to report that I will be immediately requesting a return tomorrow. I can say without exaggeration that this is one of the most disappointing iphone accessories I've ever purchased. I don't have photos ready - but I just want to share some key observations for those who are still on the fence (don't do it!!
- First the packaging - this really doesn't matter, but somehow it makes a bad impression in the very beginning. The packaging/container design is fine, but the printing on the boxes is very low quality, even worse that that of an average home printer. Compared to other premium brands (e.g. Vaja, Apple's own products) it simply creates a poor first impression.
- Second the case - the metal does not feel nice at all. The vast majority of aluminium cases I've used are nicely polished and smooth with very nature colors, but the Sector 5 feels like... well like a piece of metal you'd buy from Home Depot or something. It feels "industrial" or "military-grade" if that's how you want to think about it, but it frankly just feels very rough and uncomfortable to me. The gray color is also very flat, instead of the slightly shiny and jewel-like sheen that high quality, well-treated aluminium cases have. However it looks pretty decent as long as you don't stare too closely.
edit: I want to clarify that this isn't just a matte/polished metal distinction. I've felt the matte el3ctron case before and it's nowhere near as rough.
Also already mentioned before - the case is cut very sharp. Very sharp. If you grip it will be highly uncomfortable and leave light marks on your hand. I have never, ever held a case that felt quite as painful to be honest.
As a reference - my all-time favourite is the el3ctron s4 in terms of design, quality and overall craftsmanship, but the Sector 5 is a far cry from that despite nearly double the cost.
- The carbon fiber back kills signal, as already discussed. However what hasn't been mentioned though is that it's really not as high quality as the other more established carbon fiber options out there. I understand some CF protectors are thin and very bendable, others are a bit thicker but feel much more "heavy-duty". Well the Sector 5 is neither. It's not that thin (definitely thicker than a sheet of paper) and feels a bit... "paper-like" in that it bends too softly and doesn't have the marginally rigid feel that expensive covers do.
- The suede cover is alright, but it frankly doesn't feel or feel any better than what you can get by buying a sheet of suede somewhere and cut/paste it yourself. Also it looks like it can get rather dirty quick since it's a light-ish gray.
- Another major problem, although this might be specific to my case, is that it simply didn't fit perfectly. The left side (SIM-card side) has a slight flex to it, so if I press the side it gives a very small click. I adjusted the case quite a few times but to no avail.
- All of the above may be considered subjective, but I think the last and absolutely worst design problem is the area around the ring/silence switch. You can see even from stock photos that the case is very bulky around the upper left area, and (this has also been mentioned in this thread I believe), this makes the ring/silence switch very recessed. It becomes almost impossible to just use your thumb to "brush" the switch up and down, like how I usually do it. You have to literally put your finger in the crevice and use your nail/fingertip to toggle it. It's just as inconvenient and uncomfortable as you'd imagine.
All that said - the case is very good looking in general. It just seems like they rushed the process, cut a few corners, and forgo way, way too much function for form. I'm more than willing to pay for luxury products that serve more as eye-candy than utilitarian reasons, but it was hard to justify Sector 5 even with its excellent appearance.
Sorry for the long post - I just want to provide some details because I think it's too easy to be caught up on the immediate "coolness" and forget about the actual experience of using it. I think Element can easily fix all of the problems, so I'll undoubtedly keep a close eye on future revisions.
-
Thanks for the post.
I seem to remember similar issues happening to early adopters in that legendary huge thread about the first Element cases. Looks like its best to wait a while on these until they work out the kinks.
I have just received my Sector 5 case today - and I'm very sad to report that I will be immediately requesting a return tomorrow. I can say without exaggeration that this is one of the most disappointing iphone accessories I've ever purchased. I don't have photos ready - but I just want to share some key observations for those who are still on the fence (don't do it!!
- First the packaging - this really doesn't matter, but somehow it makes a bad impression in the very beginning. The packaging/container design is fine, but the printing on the boxes is very low quality, even worse that that of an average home printer. Compared to other premium brands (e.g. Vaja, Apple's own products) it simply creates a poor first impression.
- Second the case - the metal does not feel nice at all. The vast majority of aluminium cases I've used are nicely polished and smooth with very nature colors, but the Sector 5 feels like... well like a piece of metal you'd buy from Home Depot or something. It feels "industrial" or "military-grade" if that's how you want to think about it, but it frankly just feels very rough and uncomfortable to me. The gray color is also very flat, instead of the slightly shiny and jewel-like sheen that high quality, well-treated aluminium cases have. However it looks pretty decent as long as you don't stare too closely.
edit: I want to clarify that this isn't just a matte/polished metal distinction. I've felt the matte el3ctron case before and it's nowhere near as rough.
Also already mentioned before - the case is cut very sharp. Very sharp. If you grip it will be highly uncomfortable and leave light marks on your hand. I have never, ever held a case that felt quite as painful to be honest.
As a reference - my all-time favourite is the el3ctron s4 in terms of design, quality and overall craftsmanship, but the Sector 5 is a far cry from that despite nearly double the cost.
- The carbon fiber back kills signal, as already discussed. However what hasn't been mentioned though is that it's really not as high quality as the other more established carbon fiber options out there. I understand some CF protectors are thin and very bendable, others are a bit thicker but feel much more "heavy-duty". Well the Sector 5 is neither. It's not that thin (definitely thicker than a sheet of paper) and feels a bit... "paper-like" in that it bends too softly and doesn't have the marginally rigid feel that expensive covers do.
- The suede cover is alright, but it frankly doesn't feel or feel any better than what you can get by buying a sheet of suede somewhere and cut/paste it yourself. Also it looks like it can get rather dirty quick since it's a light-ish gray.
- Another major problem, although this might be specific to my case, is that it simply didn't fit perfectly. The left side (SIM-card side) has a slight flex to it, so if I press the side it gives a very small click. I adjusted the case quite a few times but to no avail.
- All of the above may be considered subjective, but I think the last and absolutely worst design problem is the area around the ring/silence switch. You can see even from stock photos that the case is very bulky around the upper left area, and (this has also been mentioned in this thread I believe), this makes the ring/silence switch very recessed. It becomes almost impossible to just use your thumb to "brush" the switch up and down, like how I usually do it. You have to literally put your finger in the crevice and use your nail/fingertip to toggle it. It's just as inconvenient and uncomfortable as you'd imagine.
All that said - the case is very good looking in general. It just seems like they rushed the process, cut a few corners, and forgo way, way too much function for form. I'm more than willing to pay for luxury products that serve more as eye-candy than utilitarian reasons, but it was hard to justify Sector 5 even with its excellent appearance.
Sorry for the long post - I just want to provide some details because I think it's too easy to be caught up on the immediate "coolness" and forget about the actual experience of using it. I think Element can easily fix all of the problems, so I'll undoubtedly keep a close eye on future revisions.
-
Thanks for the post. I was thinking of getting it tho there was always the fear of being ripped off, and that appears would have been the case. At that price, it would have to be flawless.
I have just received my Sector 5 case today - and I'm very sad to report that I will be immediately requesting a return tomorrow. I can say without exaggeration that this is one of the most disappointing iphone accessories I've ever purchased. I don't have photos ready - but I just want to share some key observations for those who are still on the fence (don't do it!!
- First the packaging - this really doesn't matter, but somehow it makes a bad impression in the very beginning. The packaging/container design is fine, but the printing on the boxes is very low quality, even worse that that of an average home printer. Compared to other premium brands (e.g. Vaja, Apple's own products) it simply creates a poor first impression.
- Second the case - the metal does not feel nice at all. The vast majority of aluminium cases I've used are nicely polished and smooth with very nature colors, but the Sector 5 feels like... well like a piece of metal you'd buy from Home Depot or something. It feels "industrial" or "military-grade" if that's how you want to think about it, but it frankly just feels very rough and uncomfortable to me. The gray color is also very flat, instead of the slightly shiny and jewel-like sheen that high quality, well-treated aluminium cases have. However it looks pretty decent as long as you don't stare too closely.
edit: I want to clarify that this isn't just a matte/polished metal distinction. I've felt the matte el3ctron case before and it's nowhere near as rough.
Also already mentioned before - the case is cut very sharp. Very sharp. If you grip it will be highly uncomfortable and leave light marks on your hand. I have never, ever held a case that felt quite as painful to be honest.
As a reference - my all-time favourite is the el3ctron s4 in terms of design, quality and overall craftsmanship, but the Sector 5 is a far cry from that despite nearly double the cost.
- The carbon fiber back kills signal, as already discussed. However what hasn't been mentioned though is that it's really not as high quality as the other more established carbon fiber options out there. I understand some CF protectors are thin and very bendable, others are a bit thicker but feel much more "heavy-duty". Well the Sector 5 is neither. It's not that thin (definitely thicker than a sheet of paper) and feels a bit... "paper-like" in that it bends too softly and doesn't have the marginally rigid feel that expensive covers do.
- The suede cover is alright, but it frankly doesn't feel or feel any better than what you can get by buying a sheet of suede somewhere and cut/paste it yourself. Also it looks like it can get rather dirty quick since it's a light-ish gray.
- Another major problem, although this might be specific to my case, is that it simply didn't fit perfectly. The left side (SIM-card side) has a slight flex to it, so if I press the side it gives a very small click. I adjusted the case quite a few times but to no avail.
- All of the above may be considered subjective, but I think the last and absolutely worst design problem is the area around the ring/silence switch. You can see even from stock photos that the case is very bulky around the upper left area, and (this has also been mentioned in this thread I believe), this makes the ring/silence switch very recessed. It becomes almost impossible to just use your thumb to "brush" the switch up and down, like how I usually do it. You have to literally put your finger in the crevice and use your nail/fingertip to toggle it. It's just as inconvenient and uncomfortable as you'd imagine.
All that said - the case is very good looking in general. It just seems like they rushed the process, cut a few corners, and forgo way, way too much function for form. I'm more than willing to pay for luxury products that serve more as eye-candy than utilitarian reasons, but it was hard to justify Sector 5 even with its excellent appearance.
Sorry for the long post - I just want to provide some details because I think it's too easy to be caught up on the immediate "coolness" and forget about the actual experience of using it. I think Element can easily fix all of the problems, so I'll undoubtedly keep a close eye on future revisions.
-
Draco 5 is looking like a better option...
Yeah I'm thinking that too. My Sector 5 should be here on Friday, and I'll make a decision then whether to return it and order a Draco or not. I'm hoping that I like the Sector, because I think the styling fits the iPhone much better. But we'll see.
Ergonomically the Draco seems leagues ahead.
One more issue I forgot to elaborate on - it's hard to fully hold the Sector 5 case with one hand (much like the photo in this article: http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2012/08/how-the-iphone-5-might-look-in-your-hand/). The bottom of the case is also bulky/wide and sharp, so if you try to grab the phone around the middle or top to wrap your hand around the back the bottom left corner will dig a bit into the bottom/middle area of your palm. It's... just unpleasant. Even though the mid-area of the case is relatively thin and compact, the bulkiness at the top and bottom definitely makes it more unwieldy.
@ beartato
Packaging- I thought it was on a par with Apple packaging. There is a great picture of the product with big text. It's a hard cardboard material and I see no problem with the print.
Finish- You knew it was flat, flux paint when you ordered it. The description clearly stated that. So why compare it with gloss/polished. It is a very durable finish. Yes, it's meant to have an "industrial" character.
Feel- I like that it isn't prone to slip out of your hand. your pain threshold must be very low.
Price- I agree with you on this, but as they say it's what the market will bare.
The carbon fiber back reception issue is no surprise. I like a clear skin on the back to show off the natural Iphone design.
Fit- Do you have side skins installed? Mine fit fine. Skins would cause a fit problem.
You finish with "very good looking" and "excellent appearance". The finish and feel you complain about are part of what makes these quotes true. That your comments are "subjective" is the truest thing you said.
Packaging- I thought it was on a par with Apple packaging. There is a great picture of the product with big text. It's a hard cardboard material and I see no problem with the print.
Finish- You knew it was flat, flux paint when you ordered it. The description clearly stated that. So why compare it with gloss/polished. It is a very durable finish. Yes, it's meant to have an "industrial" character.
Feel- I like that it isn't prone to slip out of your hand. your pain threshold must be very low.
Price- I agree with you on this, but as they say it's what the market will bare.
The carbon fiber back reception issue is no surprise. I like a clear skin on the back to show off the natural Iphone design.
Fit- Do you have side skins installed? Mine fit fine. Skins would cause a fit problem.
You finish with "very good looking" and "excellent appearance". The finish and feel you complain about are part of what makes these quotes true. That your comments are "subjective" is the truest thing you said.
why did you even bother buying if the bumper is everything you DON'T want?
seems you should've went straight for the Draco right off the bat.
It is very good looking (from a small distance), which is why I focused more on the feel and usage experience rather than the appearance.
I'm sorry I simply can't agree on the packaging - I understand it's not at all relevant to the actual device usage, but it's simply disingenuous to say that it's on par with Apple. Here are my photos (apologies I do not have my good camera, so they're taken with just my iPhone 5). I feel kind of silly even trying to prove my point, but I design stuff for work and this is not something I'd normally consider acceptable.
Here we can see the printing quality on the box - it's washed out and you can almost see the dots - very low DPI compared to any premium packaging
Once you open it, you can see that the pictures/text inside are printed on a separate sticker and later glued onto a generic white box (and not a very good one, just average white cardboard box). Also the sticker is slightly misaligned.
Another shot of the boxes. The inner white box is very plain and average, not the matte, well-cut box that Apple stuff comes with.
Once opened and you take the stuff out, you see that the case itself resides on a very thin, generic white plastic instead of the hard clear plastic that many pricier products use.
To illustrate what I mean by the aluminum's colour/appearance - it isn't bad, it just really is a flat gray. Unfortunately I do not have the el3ctron matte case on hand, but the el3ctron version is definitely a bit more smooth.
I don't know if I have super low pain threshold or not, but I can't imagine how anyone wouldn't think it's at least noticeably uncomfortable.
I do have the side skin fitted - I actually did mine perfectly and didn't find it as difficult as other posters have noted. I do have steady hands though since I work with designing small items pretty often.
----------
It was my mistake - my first impression of the Sector 5 was akin to the el3ctron s4/5 and thought they'd be comparable. I was not aware of the Draco case until after I pre-ordered, and later I decided to check it out in-hand since it was due to arrive soon-ish anyway.
Well thanks for being honest. When I first saw the box I thought the same thing, the quality of the print was bad. And I agree, when you're spending this much money on a case, everything about it, including the packaging should be premium. I'm still a bit worried about getting my Sector 5 on Friday, but I'll be sure to post my thoughts on the case as well. I went ahead and ordered a Draco and plan on seeing which one I like better and returning the one I like the least. I think the Sector 5 design is better and looks better with the iPhone aesthetics, but the Draco seems like it would be more comfortable and there are less pieces so less areas to screw up. Even the Draco packaging material is very well made. If only Rokform made an aluminum case for the iPhone 5, I would be all over it. They have incredible customer service, made in the US, and all their products and materials are top notch. I believe they plan on releasing one after their Rokshield case is out, their iPhone 4 aluminum case is great.
Well, least ElementCase has a great return policy? Considering you do pay a premium, least they cover you properly in that regard. Still hoping when mine comes in I'm completely satisfied... starting to get worried but I have yet to be disappointed by EC :\
Their return policy is that the case can't even be open to return it. So I'm still a bit skeptical about that. You would think they would have decent customer service, but it's always pretty bad.