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memory Leak?!? How about NOT having your software on an ESTABLISHED OS work with a client hovering over your shoulders!!!!!!

You may have real reasons, but it looks to me like you should be ranting and stirring up a storm on the forums for your respective software rather then an Apple forum. Unless, of course, your software is written by Apple.

I, too, have been waiting. But I must point something out: when the Mac Pro systems came out, they were the cheapest most powerful systems on the market. No one could beat their prices for the same hardware. Not Dell or HP. Not anyone.

Even now, their prices are competitive and they offer the fastest dual Xeon workstations available on the OEM market today.

Intel upgrades were announced a matter of days ago and no one is offering anything for sale utilizing them. Not Apple, not Dell, not HP.

I don't doubt that when the new Mac Pros are announced that they, too, will be competitive in price and features and offer the best available in their class.

So, it seems to me that your main complaint can only be that some 3rd party vendor isn't supporting your platform of choice to the degree you'd like.

I'd suggest searching for an alternative that provides the same functionality, but with a better development team. If the software has no alternative or if the company is too invested in the use of this sub par mac software (bad managerial choice here, but sometimes we must adapt around previous errs in judgement or lack of rigorous investigation) then you have parallels or dual booting......or just buy a windows machine and deal with its quirks.

That's pretty much all your valid choices. So it's time to meditate on them and make the best choice for you and your company.

Of course, you could just hang out on these forums and rant about the short comings of OSX (which are really short comings of whatever sub par mac software your using), but at the end of the day you'll be no better off then the beginning.
 
Except the HP cannot run OS X.
Even the most powerful computer in the world is worthless to some people if the OS is crap.

Except OS X cannot run on anything except Mac.
Even the "World's Most Advanced Operating System" is worthless to some/all people if the hardware-CHOICE is crap or very limited.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it, $teve Jobs! :mad:
 
Except OS X cannot run on anything except Mac.
Even the "World's Most Advanced Operating System" is worthless to some/all people if the hardware-CHOICE is crap or very limited.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it, $teve Jobs! :mad:

LOL... an 8 core for $4000 with the best operating system in the world is crap? lol. Where do you guys come from? Isn't Alienware selling a 4 core system for $5499? Apple must have attracted very ambitious bargain basement shoppers with its marketing.
 
Except OS X cannot run on anything except Mac.
Even the "World's Most Advanced Operating System" is worthless to some/all people if the hardware-CHOICE is crap or very limited.

Build a better or identical one for significantly less. Please. I'd like to see what you can come up and how much money you can save by doing it yourself. Include in it the price of OS X, even if the hardware you choose can't quite run it (that'll be the one and only free pass in this challenge).

jas
 
Build a better or identical one for significantly less. Please. I'd like to see what you can come up and how much money you can save by doing it yourself. Include in it the price of OS X, even if the hardware you choose can't quite run it (that'll be the one and only free pass in this challenge).

jas

Well the entire problems seems to me that many people want a pro workstation computer for gaming.
 
Clarification

I'm not saying Apple's products are crap. What I'm saying is... their selection/options/configurability/gap-between-market-segments is crap. Just being locked down run OS X only on what Apple decides will make them $$ - that is what is crap!

The MacPro - I'm sure it's a fine piece of hardware. But I don't need that much power, and I need something more than an iMac. So with Apple I'm $h1t out of luck, as they say. :mad:
 
Well the entire problems seems to me that many people want a pro workstation computer for gaming.

As one who needs a work station for. . . work (albeit high reward, low pay work)! But also likes to game, I would like to see better video cards and more current after market options (rather then the 2 year old, discontinued, marked up to 4x its worth options).

It won't keep me from buying my workstation, but I can't afford 1500 for a windows gaming rig on top of the 2500 I'll spend on a mac pro. So it'd be nice if they just used remotely current peripherals in that area.

I don't buy Mac workstations for gaming, I buy them for work...but am a bit disappointed that due to a tiny lack of attention to a core peripheral my very top of the line machine performs worse then a $1200 dollar off the shelf dell for its secondary purpose. . . entertainment.
 
Well the entire problems seems to me that many people want a pro workstation computer for gaming.

well i guess many want any mac for gaming .. which if you want os x .. you are stuck with the pro (i'm never going to buy a dual xeon workstation with it's ridiculous power usage for that)

that said there is an aweful lot of people who buy xeon workstations for CAD etc. which of course means that mac pro is equally a no go
 
Except OS X cannot run on anything except Mac.
Even the "World's Most Advanced Operating System" is worthless to some/all people if the hardware-CHOICE is crap or very limited.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it, $teve Jobs! :mad:

Maybe you should ask Apple make a special Leopard and license it to your DIY machine.
 
I wish they would! I would pay 2-3 times Leopard's current price if they would just unlock it so it would install and run on any old hardware!

The full version of Leopard is officially supported on Macs 867mhz and faster, which goes back to almost 5 years for some lines of Macs. How old is your "old hardware"?

Full features of Vista doesn't even run on all CURRENTLY SHIPPING wintels. Try running it on a 867mhz machine why don't you?
 
How do you figure?

It's only a go if you install windows on it. CAD for OSX is virtually none existent. All the top notch professional (and thus high demand) CAD is windows only.

Speaking of which, I've seen *many* a mac pro sold to someone who had no other intention then installing windows xp on the machine for CAD work.
 
As one who needs a work station for. . . work (albeit high reward, low pay work)! But also likes to game, I would like to see better video cards and more current after market options (rather then the 2 year old, discontinued, marked up to 4x its worth options).

It won't keep me from buying my workstation, but I can't afford 1500 for a windows gaming rig on top of the 2500 I'll spend on a mac pro. So it'd be nice if they just used remotely current peripherals in that area.

I don't buy Mac workstations for gaming, I buy them for work...but am a bit disappointed that due to a tiny lack of attention to a core peripheral my very top of the line machine performs worse then a $1200 dollar off the shelf dell for its secondary purpose. . . entertainment.

You can put a windows video card in the Mac Pro. Use boot camp.
 
Build a better or identical one for significantly less. Please. I'd like to see what you can come up and how much money you can save by doing it yourself. Include in it the price of OS X, even if the hardware you choose can't quite run it (that'll be the one and only free pass in this challenge).

jas

That person should also include the time
- researching different components
- researching where to find the least expensive price for each component
- purchasing different components from different vendors
- opening packages of various components and read directions
- cobble up the machine
- Install windows and activate (a few hours)
- update windows (another 1 to 3 hours)
- install anti-virus, install anti-spyware
- find drivers
- install drivers
- figure out incompatibility issues
- reinstall drivers
- figure out how to reduce fan noise
- spend extra for quiet case / quiet fans (but still can't get it as low noise as Mac Pro )
- figure out how to defrag (OSX does it by itself)
- spent defragging plus doing all the maintenance babysitting
- reinstall windows after 6 months
- and many more activities

Multiply that by your hourly wage of say $25 to $300, depends on how much you get paid by working on paid projects.

You also have to consider that Macs have higher resale value, and longer usable life.
 
The full version of Leopard is officially supported on Macs 867mhz and faster, which goes back to almost 5 years for some lines of Macs. How old is your "old hardware"?

Full features of Vista doesn't even run on all CURRENTLY SHIPPING wintels. Try running it on a 867mhz machine why don't you?

before you go on slamming microsoft:
my mac mini doesn't support all the desktop eyecandy tiger has .. which launched when ? 5 months later ?

also care to mention what "full features" we are talking about ?

(i just checked ... the minimum requirement for vista is actually 800mhz )
 
Full features of Vista doesn't even run on all CURRENTLY SHIPPING wintels. Try running it on a 867mhz machine why don't you?

the full features of TIGER don't run on a dual 2.0 ghz G5 if it has a 5200 "ultra" graphics card in it, which most of them sadly do. software emulation of graphics card functions is not a good experience, as anyone with an old blue imac knows if they've added a new widget to the dashboard...

if by "full features" you're referring to running the complete version of the OS's visual package, which is I presume what you mean, a 900 mhz centrino processor will run vista without any issues...but if it has a geforce 2 for the display, it will not run aero visuals....

I don't see your point.
 
It's only a go if you install windows on it. CAD for OSX is virtually none existent. All the top notch professional (and thus high demand) CAD is windows only.

Speaking of which, I've seen *many* a mac pro sold to someone who had no other intention then installing windows xp on the machine for CAD work.

Yup. That's because Mac Pro IS a better value than the wintels in the same class.
 
before you go on slamming microsoft:
my mac mini doesn't support all the desktop eyecandy tiger has .. which launched when ? 5 months later ?

also care to mention what "full features" we are talking about ?

(i just checked ... the minimum requirement for vista is actually 800mhz )


Appearantly you never tried to run Vista in the real world. It runs sluggish on many currently shipping machines.

Also, Vista is not very usable. Here is something from a proponent of Vista who changed his mind. You figure the former editor-in-chief of PC Magazine would know a little on how to use windows.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2171472,00.asp
 
Granted I don't know anything about the underlying architecture of a computer but honestly I never understand all this praise for the operating system. Correct me if I'm wrong but HP does run Adobe suite, Office, & Firefox. The point being I'm on the computer to work & to me that means being within a software program.

Windows:
not designed for multi-tasking. Slows down more if you have multiple things open. Is poor at drag and drop. Is inconsistent for even basic behaviors such as open document, saving, and close document for even just MS software. etc. etc. etc.


Apple for me has been a reliable computer for my small business as I can not afford a full time tech guy - but at the same time I'm not for the HEADACHE that comes with upgrading my OS every few years only to find the stuff I really need the computer to do will no longer work. So Yes I have been waiting to upgrade my workstations until after the Leopard release.

That is software vendor's fault. Happens with Windows too. Many Windows XP programs don't work with Vista. Heck, Vista can't even connect to a projector without asking for a driver. (and it can't connect to a project without the drivers). Many of MS' own programs become broken after each service pack.

You do not have to upgrade your OS at all. Do you get a new car every year because they released a new model? If you wait until .3 update, then there will be minimal issues.

Now Apple has put me and my business in buying hell do I upgrade during the "holiday" season (prior to Dec 31 that I have been planing for) Do I change all my computers over to Windows needing to learn a whole new way of working just so I can have a friggin OS that will run Adobe cs3 - I'm still waiting (I do know next year I will be selling all my Apple stock - I see where this company is going - fads fad)

Adobe cs3 is Universal. Works on many recent Macs. You do not need Leopard to run CS3. You can buy Tiger from many places at a discount.


As for if you haven't bought then you don't need, you sir are somebody's employee! What I don't need is an overpriced toy phone crippled from the start so they can sell version 2, a trendy walkman that can't even read raw files, or the continued WAIT of all the third party software that I do use trying to catch up with Apple's "synergy" of always updating selling you a new box full of OS but I do need a new workstation with Blueray

You know why iPods are so popular? Because for most people, it's much more usable than other products out there. Yes, you can install Linux or whatever on your iPod to let you play music via folder structure. Just because you don't know how doesn't mean it's not possible.

Blue ray: Mac Pro has an extra bay you can install your own drive. Costs just an extra $275 to have Blue Ray Burner in a Mac Pro.
 
That person should also include the time
- researching different components
- researching where to find the least expensive price for each component
- purchasing different components from different vendors
- opening packages of various components and read directions
- cobble up the machine
- Install windows and activate (a few hours)
- update windows (another 1 to 3 hours)
- install anti-virus, install anti-spyware
- find drivers
- install drivers
- figure out incompatibility issues
- reinstall drivers
- figure out how to reduce fan noise
- spend extra for quiet case / quiet fans (but still can't get it as low noise as Mac Pro )
- figure out how to defrag (OSX does it by itself)
- defrag and optimize time

Multiply that by your hourly wage of say $25 to $300, depends on how much you get paid by working on paid projects.

You also have to consider that Macs have higher resale value, and longer usable life.

I just spent 20 minutes at newegg "researching" and built a better machine in almost every respect.

• $1,295 - Intel Core 2 Extreme QX9650 quad 3.0ghz Yorkfield (45nm)
• $269.99 - PNY 8800GT 512MB GDDR3 w/HDCP
• $159.99 - Gigabyte GA-p35C-DS3R mobo
• $149.99 - Thermaltake VA8000BWS full tower case w/quiet fans
• $189.99 - Thermaltake W0117RU 750 watt power supply
• $222.00 - Corsair 2x2GB PC2 6400 DDR2 RAM
• $119.99 - Seagate 7200.10 500GB SATA2 hard drive
• $65.99 - Sound Blaster X-Fi Extreme 7.1 24bit audio card
• $59.99 - Logitech LX 710 Laser cordless mouse/kb

Total: $2,522.93, plus 109.99 for OS X (since you're "giving" us that option)

Now, just to point this out, I've included a quad 3.0 processor that will overclock comforably (according to tomshardware) to 3.5ghz with air cooling and no voltage modifications. This processor is now listed as "sold out" at newegg, but 20 minutes ago when i first started building my machine, it was in stock. This machine has an 8800GT with 512mb of RAM, which is approximately 4x faster than the top BTO option available from Apple right now. That motherboard doesn't support 32 GB of RAM, but I included 4GB for this price.

From past experience, I can promise you that I'd get this put together in an hour or less. Installing Vista from scratch is a 1 hour process. You've obviously not tried to set up a vista machine before, because you wouldn't even be mentioning these things:Update windows, Find drivers, Install drivers, Figure out incompatibility issues, Reinstall drivers. If all of your hardware is supported (all of the hardware I chose is), then you would be downloading up-to-date drivers as soon as you attached an ethernet cable. With a fast connection, you'd be done with all of that, rebooting a couple of times maybe, but not as often as XP, and then you'd be ready to go.

It isn't rocket science. It's just plugging somethings into the appropriate standardized ports and then twisting some thumb screws. Truth be told, it's also fun.

If you're willing to go with the fastest non-server core 2 duo processors, you'll be able to get a machine with one of those for 600 or 700 dollars less than what I built here.
 
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