Seem like Apple want us to buy a HP workstation rather than a Mac Pro

[DesignerOnMac]

Can't use Abode CS3 on Tiger....

"No one is forcing." Except I can't use Adobe cs3 with Panther while I can't use my tethering software with Tiger(an established os) without problems. As you can see part of the dilemma is not even wanting to step in Leopard but needing workstations now.

"those programs run on Windows. Not as efficiently,... but they do." Funny when I started everyone was using Apple now a lot of the companies doing major retouching work have switched, wonder why

memory Leak?!? How about NOT having your software on an ESTABLISHED OS work with a client hovering over your shoulders!!!!!!

I really truly don't want to switch but let's be honest there is a very real reason why I am even considering it.

All my printers etc, STILL use Macs, the horror stories with Windoz and printing are well documented.

 

[trancepriest]

You've obviously not tried to set up a vista machine before, because you wouldn't even be mentioning these things:Update windows, Find drivers, Install drivers, Figure out incompatibility issues, Reinstall drivers. If all of your hardware is supported (all of the hardware I chose is), then you would be downloading up-to-date drivers as soon as you attached an ethernet cable. With a fast connection, you'd be done with all of that, rebooting a couple of times maybe, but not as often as XP, and then you'd be ready to go.

LOL... "if all of your hardware is supported".

 

[benpatient]

basically all modern hardware is supported. I said "if" because you can't expect your parallel port sporting dot matrix printer to work with vista out of the box. apple force-obsoletes things MUCH faster than MS, though, so you can't make any claims there. In fact Apple is already churning out Leopard-only software, despite all the talk that you "don't have to upgrade" if you don't want to.

OS X only "Just works" because they are maintaining drivers for half a dozen graphics chipsets of the hundreds that are available to windows users.

this "choice is bad" mentality is completely lost on me.

 

[benpatient]

No you didn't.

Question: Can you run two CPUs on that motherboard?

jas

Not sure what you mean. It's capable of as many CPUs as intel is willing to put onto a 775 socket chip.

Do you mean two physical sockets? Nope. But that's irrelevant unless you want to do octo-core.

4 cores are 4 cores. These 4 cores are each faster than anything you can get from Apple right now.

Other than being limited at present to only 4 CPUs and 16GB of RAM, and not allowing you to use more expensive and slower ECC chips, in what ways does the machine I just built not meet or exceed the hardware found in a 2,500 dollar Mac Pro?

 

[synth3tik]

Except HP is gross, unless your paying $10k on a decent server.

 

[trancepriest]

this "choice is bad" mentality is completely lost on me.

Choice is bad.. our lil designer dictatorship utopia is working quite nicely. We don't want herd mentality ruining things.

 

[deathshrub]

If you have been waiting since spring to buy a MacPro, you didn't need one to begin with.

Thankfully we have somebody like you on these forums to tell everybody what they need.

 

[deathshrub]

Except HP is gross, unless your paying $10k on a decent server.

And installing Linux.

 

[krunk]

I just spent 20 minutes at newegg "researching" and built a better machine in almost every respect.

• $1,295 - Intel Core 2 Extreme QX9650 quad 3.0ghz Yorkfield (45nm)
• $159.99 - Gigabyte GA-p35C-DS3R mobo

That's a desktop CPU in a single socket motherboard. You're already comparing Porche to a Pinto.

• $269.99 - PNY 8800GT 512MB GDDR3 w/HDCP

Clearly better then the mac pro. Some argue the mac pro isn't a gaming machine. I think it's just piss poor attention to the product line. To each his own.

• $149.99 - Thermaltake VA8000BWS full tower case w/quiet fans
• $189.99 - Thermaltake W0117RU 750 watt power supply

That's a lower tier, consumer case. Take a look at some Lian Li's and comparable high end cases to get a better idea of the market value of the Mac Pro case.

• $222.00 - Corsair 2x2GB PC2 6400 DDR2 RAM
• $119.99 - Seagate 7200.10 500GB SATA2 hard drive
• $65.99 - Sound Blaster X-Fi Extreme 7.1 24bit audio card
• $59.99 - Logitech LX 710 Laser cordless mouse/kb

Pretty standard stuff. Of course anyone without an unlimited bank account buys additional ram through other vendors. So the "upgrades" will be the same for both. I would point out that that's consumer RAM as well. FBDIMMS are much more suited for a workstation environment where integrity is greater then performance.

Total: $2,522.93, plus 109.99 for OS X (since you're "giving" us that option)

So, what you've proven is that you can build a single processor, consumer grade machine for a couple of 100 more then the base cost of a Mac Pro with the only advantage being a better video card.

So, for a workstation, you've built a worse machine that's more expensive. You might respond "but I don't *need* that". But it's equivalent to saying "Why doesn't lamborghini make a better family car? Look, I can build a GREAT family car for just a few 1000 more." Sorry, but your fishing in the wrong pond.

That being said: it's absolutely negligent on Apple's part not to put the tiniest effort into giving us Workstation users a decent vid card for our off time interests.

 

[Transeau]

OMG would you guys stop whining!?

FIRST OFF, I feel sorry for anyone buying an HP computer. If you do it, so sorry... you got screwed...

SECOND. Stop bitching about price. Compare the same things.. PRE-BUILT. You CAN NOT compare parts from Newegg with a pre-build system.

THRID - Compare the same things. Look at an identically configured Dell Precision 690 and a Mac Pro.

2x Quad Core 3.0
4GB Memory (Dell only gives you 4GB max)
4x 500GB
Quatro FX
20" LCD
etc...

Dell is $8,832
Apple is $8,368

If you are a small business you get $578 off at Dell.

Still you are looking at a $140 difference.

Have you called Dell's tech support lately?
You seen a Dell Service Center anywhere?

Anyway.. Sorry... I'm jaded. I'm the IT Director of a LARGE medical group and I deal with our 47 Dell OptiPlex workstations and our 5 Dell PowerEdge servers daily. The doctors each have iMacs. (All 5 brand new 24") It's taken me 3 years to get the Docs moved. (Well, 3 years and a terminal server)

Anyway - if you want a PC, go buy one. YES you can build one cheaper. You can get a Dell for the same price (of cheaper if you buy cheaper hardware). You can get an HP that is going to die in a year. You can buy the parts and build it and pray that the 30 day to 1 year warranty is honored, as well as pray that all of the parts work well together. Oh, but you still get Vista.. Or XP, either way, it's not OS X.

I've read / heard / had this debate so many times. It's old, it's boring. I'm an IT Director, more than 15 years in the IT field. I switched to Mac the day the Macbook Pro and Mac Pro was released. Yes, I ran Windows for a few months until I was able to function in my daily work with OSX. I switched because the price WAS THE SAME as Dell. It's stable, sexy hardware. It's a stable, sexy OS. and they use Intel CPU's. (I'm an Intel stock holder and I have family that works at the Corp office, so I feel obligated to avoid the PowerPC and AMD cpus)

Okay, I'm getting off my soapbox. Don't bother flaming me, because I doubt I'll read it. If you want to chat about my views, PM me for my AIM name. If you are a SoCal local, PM me and we can hang out.

P.S. I picked the top end because that's how I buy. "Buy the best, cry once"

 

[tronic72]

Stupid, pointless post

go to hp workstation we will got

1 Harpertown Xeons
2 Stoakley Seaburg Mother board
3 128 GB Ram Support
4 a new graphics card
5 wireless option

we will get all expect
apple logo at side of a new system

ps. sorry for another useful theads , sorry mr mods , sorry everybody

I've got another post.

Bye Hyudia's. Mercedes are crap!

They both have the same amount of wheels, both go forward and backwards, both come in a range or colors, and to top it off the Hyundai is cheaper.

Gee, I wonder why people don't asprire to purchase a Hyudia when they can afford a Mercedes???

Compare Apples with Apples. Not Apples with Bananas

Sheessshhh.

 

[Transeau]

I've got another post.

Bye Hyudia's. Mercedes are crap!

They both have the same amount of wheels, both go forward and backwards, both come in a range or colors, and to top it off the Hyundai is cheaper.

Gee, I wonder why people don't asprire to purchase a Hyudia when they can afford a Mercedes???

Compare Apples with Apples. Not Apples with Bananas

Sheessshhh.

Booyah!

 

[Killyp]

go to hp workstation we will got

1 Harpertown Xeons
2 Stoakley Seaburg Mother board
3 128 GB Ram Support
4 a new graphics card
5 wireless option

we will get all expect
apple logo at side of a new system

ps. sorry for another useful theads , sorry mr mods , sorry everybody

Go to HP workstation you also get

1) More CPUs which will be useless under the windows kernel
2) A Stoakley Seaburg CHIPSET (not motherboard)
3) 128 GB of RAM which Windows can't make any use from, as it only usefully supports up to 12 gb RAM
4) A new graphics card, which you can install in a MacPro if you make the right choice
5) Something the MacPro is better at


I don't see your point?

 

[trancepriest]

Why not just stick with your gaming PCs? The idea of having a pro workstation and gaming on it... it's just sacrilegious to me. Heck I regular screen share with my personal mac just to keep my workstation free from junk.

 

[kirkbross]

I really don't see why all that matters so much. If you buy a Mac Pro now it costs $1400 for 8GB of RAM... so that would be $5600 for 32GB of RAM. You can upgrade the video card later. There is also a wireless option. Are you going to pay $22,400 for 128GB of RAM?

8GB Apple qualified ECC PC5300 for $399.95 at MacSales.

 

[Kaiser Phoenix]

I will choose a macbook or an ibook for that matter any day over that HP super computer (undeniably, the specs are amazing).

However software is where it matters most and nothing can beat OSX (for now).

 

[trancepriest]

8GB Apple qualified ECC PC5300 for $399.95 at MacSales.

I was referring to 4GB sticks.

 

[kirkbross]

Looks like another few months of waiting in store for us...they'll probably put out another iphone and a few more ipods first, though.

Apple will NEVER upgrade the Mac Pro. EVER. In fact, they are discontinuing all their lines of computers immediately and will announce next week that they will be selling ONLY iPods from now on... and only in pink.

Further, all existing Apple desktops, iMacs and laptops the world over will spontaneously morph into pink iPods next week via integrated time-triggered "transformer" software and an uncrackable nano manufacturing morphication utility built into all Apple products.

iPhones will remain iPhones, but will turn pink and will continue to suck.

 

[jrlcopy]

sjobs@apple.com

I guess what we sometimes for get is that the Mac Pro is a pro machine, which means stability/reliability is very important to pro users and not having entire collections of applications that aren't supported on a certain machine is very important.

Apple released a bunch of updates today, (good sign), updated the pro apps to support leopard and, (this allows them to update the mac pros with hardware that isn't supported by tiger, and since all of their apps will work flawlessly, we won't bug them for an ability to downgrade).

I think that once apple releases 10.5.1, we will see the update.

 

[jasonvp]

in what ways does the machine I just built not meet or exceed the hardware found in a 2,500 dollar Mac Pro?

Whether you like it or not, Apple has chosen the Mac Pro to be a server-classed machine that you can put on (under) your desk. Server-class machines use server-class hardware, which is more expensive. Does it make it "better?" Depends entirely on how you define it.

The machine you "built" doesn't compare to a Mac Pro. It more appropriately compares to an iMac, or maybe the mythical mid-tower Mac that doesn't exist yet.

jas

 

[trainguy77]

The full version of Leopard is officially supported on Macs 867mhz and faster, which goes back to almost 5 years for some lines of Macs. How old is your "old hardware"?

Full features of Vista doesn't even run on all CURRENTLY SHIPPING wintels. Try running it on a 867mhz machine why don't you?

Hate to burst your bubble but some graphics features are disabled in the older systems. Same applied with 10.4 some graphic features are automatically disabled.

 

[Decrepit]

go to hp workstation we will got

1 Harpertown Xeons
2 Stoakley Seaburg Mother board
3 128 GB Ram Support
4 a new graphics card
5 wireless option

we will get all expect
apple logo at side of a new system

ps. sorry for another useful theads , sorry mr mods , sorry everybody

Depending on what you need to do with the machine, the HP workstation is one of the best on the planet. But it doesn't run OS X.

It runs Windows XP64/Vista 64 quite nicely. If you're a Linux shop, you can't find a better machine that comes with (nearly) global onsite service, with upgrades to 4hr support. I know people using the HP box that this replaces with 32GB of memory, and they maxed it out. They were waiting for this and will be modeling their data with 128 MB any day now.

I am looking forward to seeing what the next Mac Pro offers. If it rocks, I will look to replace the HP workstation I'm using right now since it's a couple of generations old now. But if the Mac Pro doesn't step up to the plate, I will go get another HP. I'm running a dual-dual opteron with 6GB for my projects. It's beginning to get a little chunky.

The other major thing holding me back from a Mac Pro is the lack of graphics options. It would be very nice to be able to do 3 or 4 30" displays, but without the FX4500 class graphics. I don't need it to do high end 3D, but I need spotless graphics at major resolutions. I'm a processor intensive, not graphics intensive guy right now.

Here's hoping the new Pro can do it all. If so, I'm going to be spending BANK on one since it will last me another 2-5 years.

 

[trancepriest]

The other major thing holding me back from a Mac Pro is the lack of graphics options. It would be very nice to be able to do 3 or 4 30" displays, but without the FX4500 class graphics. I don't need it to do high end 3D, but I need spotless graphics at major resolutions. I'm a processor intensive, not graphics intensive guy right now.

Dude you currently own a Mac Mini? LOL. You are a processor intensive guy? The last time I checked the Mac Pro's can power 4 30 inch displays without the FX4500 card. What exactly is a dual-dual opteron? Is it faster than a dual core mac mini?

 

[ewinemiller]

Sigh... it's got me browsing the Dell Precision 690 refurbs again

I know they aren't the new chipsets and cpus in there, but 8 2.66 cores, a pro video card, and 4 gig of RAM is a nice box for 3200ish. Oh, well, I'll wait a little longer.

 

[krunk]

Dude you currently own a Mac Mini? LOL. You are a processor intensive guy? The last time I checked the Mac Pro's can power 4 30 inch displays without the FX4500 card. What exactly is a dual-dual opteron? Is it faster than a dual core mac mini?

I think you missed this part:

I will look to replace the HP workstation I'm using right now since