Sell Final Cut Studio 2 - buy FCPX?

[WestSt]

So, here is my 1st world problem

I have a Final Cut Studio 2 (Final Cut Pro 6, DVD Studio Pro 4, Motion 3, LiveType 2, Soundtrack Pro 2, Color, Compressor 3) license/box. Did not mind to upgrade to FCS3, cause I read all about it "just being a bug fix", "nothing really new", "not worth it to upgrade", and so forth. So I decided to wait it out for FCS4/FCP8, but then came FCPX, and you all know the rest of the story (drama!).

Now I´m wondering if I´m gonna sell my FCS2, and buy FCPX + Compressor and Motion. I´ve always loved my FCS2, but perhaps it´s time to move on? And I think might I be able to get enough selling it to finance FCPX.

I´m by no means a pro, and I´m a one man show - editing is mainly a hobby. I do stuff for myself, friends and family, like vacations, weddings, events, skiing/snowboarding/action sports, using my Panasonic point and shoot, and sometimes borrowed DSLR´s (I´ll probably getting Panasonic GH2 soon). Never done a paid gig, though I have on occasion made a presentation of a strategic communication idea for my "real job" using Motion.

Though the Avid and Adobe Switch deals are nice, I don´t feel like spending that kind of money on some new suit. As mentioned - only a hobby. Thats also the reason I want to sell FCS2 if I´m to buy FCPX. Though FCPX isn't that expensive, I like to keep my hobby budget as lean as possible (and rather buy a bit more of the expensive stuff for my small kids).

I know my way around FCS pretty well. I´ve never used Cinema Tools, and I´ve never made a lot of effort with Color, and only used STP occasionally for noise reduction. But I´ve come to love FCP, DVDSP, Motion and Compressor, used them a lot. And BTW - I´m one of those guys that find (the old) FCP more intuitive then iMovie (hate it), and I have never actually got my head around iDVD (always fails on me).

As there is no trial version of FCPX I would really like some advise from someone who´s tried both, and understands my (not so Pro) needs??

I´d hate to sell my FCS which I like, only to find I hate FCPX (though it might be the future).

Thanx!

 

[VideoCave]

Re

FCPX is for people just like you. People that just dabble in video editing or photographers with still/video cameras. But I would not sell your FCP Studio 2. FCPX is just iMovie Pro as you've probably heard.

There are many things in FCP that are not in FCPX, just basic tools that are used everyday.

I am an editor for a marketing agency so I don't use the full power of FCP but can tell you FCPX is even a complete useless tool for me. Even the new Compressor is not that great. Everything has been so Dumbed Down and control been stripped away, its just not usable.

The only thing I do use is Motion 5 because it basically diddn't change except for UI. But there are things with it that bother me. Once again it has been dumbed down for the most part. But it is much easier to use then AfterEffects and does basic things so much faster then AE can come close to.

I've been forced to go to Adobe Premier witch I hate. The program is very slow and can not handle multiple layers very well especially if effects have been added to them. And Avid's media management is the worst thing I've ever seen, which makes not even an option.

 

[Kevin Monahan]

I've been forced to go to Adobe Premier witch I hate. The program is very slow and can not handle multiple layers very well especially if effects have been added to them.

Which version of Premiere Pro? CS5 and CS5.5 is light years better than CS4. Perhaps I can help finding out what is wrong with your system. Can I get your specs?

 

[handsome pete]

But it is much easier to use then AfterEffects and does basic things so much faster then AE can come close to.

I've been forced to go to Adobe Premier witch I hate. The program is very slow and can not handle multiple layers very well especially if effects have been added to them.

What type of basic things do you find Motion easier for? I agree that at first glance Motion seems simpler, but once you get the basics of AE down you'll fins it's a much more powerful tool and no more difficult for the basics.

As for Premiere, you must have something configured wrong or not optimally. Unless you're running on really old hardware, you shouldn't have the performance problems you're experiencing.

And Avid's media management is the worst thing I've ever seen, which makes not even an option.

I'd imagine this is more of product of unfamiliarity. AVID's media management has always been better than FCP.

 

[mBox]

For the originator, dont sell unless you have to.
If you can afford FCPX then buy it.
Its worth learning both IMHO.
Too many opinions on the internet and yes some are valid but honestly, if it burns in your mind/heart to learn it then do so

 

[linuxcooldude]

Final Cut Pro X would be ideal for you. It quite powerful with what it can do & utilize all your computing power.

 

[cgbier]

I'll keep FCS2 as long as I can, as I still need DVDSP. Don't sell it.

FCP X is great. It is easy to learn, and, once you have understood the basics, it is blazingly fast. I haven't touched FCS2 since I got X.

 

[Jbgloss]

I am new to video -

I am very new to video - I bought FCP from BHP photo back in March for $749. I started learning it. I was doing pretty good then X came out. I decided if I am going to learn it might as well be the new software. So I put FCP on Ebay in July when Apple quit selling it. I sold it for $1400!

I turned around and bought X, Compressor and Motion. I could not be happier. With the extra $1000 I turned around and bought a Canon XF100 which is the best camera I have ever used I love it. Got a $3000 camera for $2000. I wish X worked with Cannon Codec but it is what it is... maybe on the upgrade. But, I love the camera so much I will deal with it.

So for me a HUGE WIN. I am very happy with X. It does crash sometimes, it is the first version, but most of the time my work is saved. I am editing on a 3.33 6 Core MP with 16GB's of Ram. I have to 120GB SSD that I do my editing through then move the project to 7200 drive when done.

I love the look and functionality. I do video for my own business and it works great for me. I also love motion I am now doing my own graphics, lower 3rd's logo's etc...

I did not have ANY video experience and now people are coming to me, saying how are you doing that and I am saving tons a money. My videos used to cost me $1500 - $3000 each. I am big on getting quality audio. I have a bunch of Mics. I use a shotgun outside and a lav normally. I came upon a cool condensor that I will use indoors above me. If I am in a pinch I will use my Senn with a countryman and the mic is actually on my face can't get closer then that.

I am one of the few VERY happy X users and I am still learning, Motion is just awesome. Love it too! I have two ACD's and I have X on one and motion on the other it just rocks Jam some Metallica and good to go

Just saying over the last 6 months I have probably saved $40,000 thanks to FCPX and I am learning a skill that I actually enjoy.

There are some good tutorials out there.

Good luck, hopefully you can sell it and get a win like I did or if you keep I don't think you can go wrong learning X, been a great experience for me and have not looked back.

JB

 

[handsome pete]

I'm genuinely curious as to how FCPX is saving you that much money. Your post doesn't seem to explain any of that.

 

[Jbgloss]

Handsome Pete

Totally cool -

BTW I read a lot of your posts I am always lurking on here! Learning, Learning!!

I do a ton on the internet - we have a really good group of people and put positive energy out in the world. I do events, etc. You can go here http://www.morningcoach.com - to see one of my sites.

I do videos for my members - the home page video was shot by my professional and my videos cost me between $1500 - $6000. They are short videos with some graphics but that is what they where costing me.

I am now doing some run and gun stuff with an old Cannon but most of my new stuff for events etc... I am using my new camera and X. The savings comes from not having to use a professional for my videos so I am saving anywhere from $1500 to $6000 a video now.

The only issue is a am a solo shooter. Meaning I have to set up my lighting and do my own shooting. We are currently looking into a studio. I found a 2000 SQ foot studio and office complex in Fort Lauderdale where I live. I may be moving into so I can keep sets and lighting in place. Plus I won't have to green screen like I do in my home office. BTW I can steal it at $1500 a month, needs some soundproofing though. Can't wait to check it out, my team just sent me the blueprints.

I am actually in my place in Bogota now and I am staying here in Colombia for a month then will be back home. I have not been doing much video since I am here. I am on my MacBook Air right now and Have a MacBook Pro and my equipment down here just have not got out. I think this weekend I will hit the mountains and do some shooting.

My videos are not where they need to be, I am still learning, but the difference in the $1500 - $3000 videos I do for my events I can handle. Just black backgrounds and white. I am no pro, but now I don't have to use a pro

Thanks for asking, I have a very unique business, I have done 1200 podcasts (audio) and have been top 10 in iTunes Self Help for 4 years. My site has 1000's of members from around the world and video is something we are really starting to get into. I have deleted a lot of the videos I have done over the last year and I am moving to new branding. That is where motion helps me. I am actually getting creative. I have fun with it. Lighting and set up suck... that is why I am looking at a studio... but it is what it is.

Thanks for asking, I guess I was kind of vague. This forum has been a HUGE help to me. From my camera to my computers. I don't shoot for anyone for me so it is not for others. But, for the stuff I need X is awesome!!!

I still use a pro for things in fact we will be shooting an infomercial soon and I am now where near doing that. My videos just announce events, and give content to my member base but the still need to be good. I thought about going with a DSLR, but with the Cannon I have to XLR's and it is heaven for audio.

One day I will actually be able to help others on this site as much as they have helped me

U can see a sample here also -

http://passions2profits2011.com/

I am a HaganaH Fight instructor and this is web site I am helping build for one of my best friends and mentors Mike Lee Kanarek - I did this with lighting etc... and motion a few weeks ago...

http://www.haganahnews.com


All the best,

JB

 

[Nostromo]

I know my way around FCS pretty well.

Then why ditch perfectly capable software and learn something else?

Invest your time and energy in editing/video making.

At the same time you can sit back and see how FCP X will develop. If it does well, you can always switch at a later time, if it doesn't, then who says you have to have the newest software? I'm sure you can keep using FCS 2 for years.

This way you don't have to spend any money.

 

[THX1139]

...I do a ton on the internet - we have a really good group of people and put positive energy out in the world. I do events, etc. You can go here... blah, blah, blah.

Wow, this post was one giant self-promotion that added nothing to the discussion. I thought there were forum rules that banned these types of posts?

 

[Jbgloss]

What?

Wow, this post was one giant self-promotion that added nothing to the discussion. I thought there were forum rules that banned these types of posts?

What is your issue? The OP asked if he should sell FCP and move to X. I told him how it worked for me.

Then Handsome Pete asked me how I saved money going to X, I am not self promoting at all. I don't need to self promote. I come to this forum to get information. I was asked how I saved money. I already have a great business and people on here have been awesome to help.

You need to chill some bro, people ask questions and I answer them. I am trying to help the OP. I am actually running a business and trying to help others do so. Like I said MANY people have helped me on here over the last 6 months.

I think you need to read again, I HIGHLY doubt many Digital Video users would be interested in what I do, I mean join my site, etc.... but I am SURE a few would like to know how I built a very large business using technology. Not saying I am good at the video aspect, but I am good at business. I am here to help not SELL. That is the last thing I need to do.

I posted those sites to see examples of my videos for Handsome Pete - MY P2P event was in MAY - Geez.... It is not even live anymore - they where examples....

It is posts like that make me not even want to be here.

I may not be a "pro" but I think by actually building a business and helping the amount of people I do brings value to people who are just starting out.

If you have an issue please respond directly to me. Life does not need to be that hard...

Always Smiling,

JB

 

[handsome pete]

Wow, this post was one giant self-promotion that added nothing to the discussion. I thought there were forum rules that banned these types of posts?

Whoah, no need to get all douchy. He provided a well thought out response to a question I asked.

One day I will actually be able to help others on this site as much as they have helped me

All the best,

JB

Thanks for the response. I was interested on where you're saving your money. Sounds like FCPX has allowed you to not sub out to other video pros and allow you to do the same work yourself. That's awesome.

What gets lost in a lot of this pro/amateur/Adobe/Avid/Apple argument is that FCPX does serve some people well. I'll admit that it was a wild disappointment from my viewpoint, but it is nice to see others getting value from it.

I think we can all agree that we want Apple to work with pros and amateurs alike to create the best NLE out there.

 

[genshi]

I just wanted to put my 2 cents in as someone who use to work in Post Production years ago (working mostly with AVID software on $100,000 SGIs and million dollar Quantel Domino systems) and who is now working on being a self-produced independent filmmaker... don't believe all of the FUD that is being spread about FCPX (yes, I'm looking at you VideoCave! )

FCPX is WAY more powerful than people give it credit for and there isn't as many "missing features" as people claim; just so much mis-information out there. People were originally saying things like "you can't share your projects with other editors" or "you can't organize your media or specify import locations" all completely not true! There are a couple of things missing especially for those that work at tape-based broadcast houses, but FCPX is much more than just an iMovie Pro for someone to "dabble" in video editing as VideoCave stated above.

And there are things in FCPX you can do that you can't do in FCP 7 without plugins; nothing has been "dumbed down" at all, everything has been simplified in the most elegant Apple way (finally!) It's almost like these old pros would rather bang their head against the wall and do things the hard and long way around than admit that APPLE has just redefined what Editing can and will be to all (in other words, now that the tool is accessible to anybody for an inexpensive price, the playing field has just been leveled and the old guard is getting worried!)

All just my humble opinion, but like I said, I use to work for those old Hollywood post houses and now, I was just asked to shoot a short film for a major upcoming event and I didn't want to rely on someone else to edit my film (I've been away from editing for awhile, but figured I would at least need a Visual Effects/Motion Graphics person) so I just picked up FCPX and Motion 5 myself and have been going through some of the tutorials I've seen online... and am completely blown away by what can be done with just FCPX. I won't need a VFX person after all as it turns out (well, maybe for one thing I would like to have done.)

So with both FCPX and Motion, simplified, yes. "Dumbed down" no. If you are a serious independent filmmaker that wants to get things done quickly and easily, then there is no question, I'd get FCPX! And I did.

 

[LethalWolfe]

I don't see any gain in selling FCS 2 to buy FCP 10 if you are already comfortable w/FCS 2, need features that FCS 2 has but FCP 10 lacks and, to top it all off, you don't like the iMovie UI which FCP 10 is heavily based on. If you have a compelling need for something that you can only get in FCP 10 I'd buy the app first, make sure it does everything you need it to do and then maybe sell FCS 2. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

FCPX is WAY more powerful than people give it credit for and there isn't as many "missing features" as people claim; just so much mis-information out there.

I take it you missed Richard Harrington's very detailed response to the talking points Pogue received from Apple as well as Pogue's following post.

"But — and let me be clear on this point — I think Apple blew it."

It's almost like these old pros would rather bang their head against the wall and do things the hard and long way around than admit that APPLE has just redefined what Editing can and will be to all (in other words, now that the tool is accessible to anybody for an inexpensive price, the playing field has just been leveled and the old guard is getting worried!)

Or FCP 10 just doesn't meet their needs. I cut and color everything from TV to indie documentaries to original web programing and FCP 10 in its current state doesn't fit any of my workflows and is not a suitable replacement for FCP 7, SoundTrack Pro, DVD SP, Cinema Tools and Color. I would like to find a home for FCP 10 because it has some features that I like but the app just isn't where I need it be.

I kinda laugh thinking about the truly old guard cutting on film, then on linear tape, then on nonlinear software and now, after all those massive shifts, it's supposedly FCP 10's changes that scare them. The playing field started getting leveled w/DV-based cameras and editing over a decade ago and, IMO, no editor worth his salt is worried about FCP 10's price point anymore than a professional musician is worried that anyone can walk into Walmart and buy a guitar.


Lethal

 

[genshi]

I don't see any gain in selling FCS 2 to buy FCP 10 if you are already comfortable w/FCS 2, need features that FCS 2 has but FCP 10 lacks and, to top it all off, you don't like the iMovie UI which FCP 10 is heavily based on. If you have a compelling need for something that you can only get in FCP 10 I'd buy the app first, make sure it does everything you need it to do and then maybe sell FCS 2. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.



I take it you missed Richard Harrington's very detailed response to the talking points Pogue received from Apple as well as Pogue's following post.

"But — and let me be clear on this point — I think Apple blew it."

Or FCP 10 just doesn't meet their needs. I cut and color everything from TV to indie documentaries to original web programing and FCP 10 in its current state doesn't fit any of my workflows and is not a suitable replacement for FCP 7, SoundTrack Pro, DVD SP, Cinema Tools and Color. I would like to find a home for FCP 10 because it has some features that I like but the app just isn't where I need it be.

I kinda laugh thinking about the truly old guard cutting on film, then on linear tape, then on nonlinear software and now, after all those massive shifts, it's supposedly FCP 10's changes that scare them. The playing field started getting leveled w/DV-based cameras and editing over a decade ago and, IMO, no editor worth his salt is worried about FCP 10's price point anymore than a professional musician is worried that anyone can walk into Walmart and buy a guitar.


Lethal

I do agree with you that if it doesn't fit your particular needs, then it just doesn't fit, but I think a lot (not all) of the people complaining about FCPX either haven't actually tried it or given it a fair chance, or are those old guards that did have to be dragged kicking and screaming from cutting on film, to linear tape, etc., etc. (they kick and scream for every change that happens in their industry it seems; again, not all of them, but many that I've had to work with in the past.)

All I'm saying is, if half the people would actually spend more time with it, I think they'd find it does fit in with their workflow much easier (albeit, somewhat different) than they suspect... maybe? It did in my case. I wasn't even going to consider it because of all the bad press, but then I researched it, saw some of the tutorials people have been putting out and thought I'd give it a test drive... and it's working out much better than I had hoped! Just my own experience.

And to put David Pogue's quote from your post in context (bolding is mine):

But — and let me be clear on this point — I think Apple blew it.

Apple says that there are workarounds for most of the missing pro features. In the comments for my post on Thursday, it’s clear that many pros disagree. But even if that were true, Apple failed to consider the human element: the psychology of video editors. Yes, there’s been a degree of kneejerk overreaction. But that’s a human reaction, and one that Apple should have anticipated, especially in this industry, when workflow and efficiency are so important. Disruption, in the pro environment, is very, very bad.

He was saying (exactly as I was saying) because the "Old Pros" are so use to working with what they're already use to, be it good or bad, Apple shouldn't have just released a completely new, redesigned-from-the-ground-up version while discontinuing the previous version; but Apple has rectified that by reintroducing the previous version for post houses that still need it. So everybody should be happy!

 

[Jbgloss]

Thank You -

Whoah, no need to get all douchy. He provided a well thought out response to a question I asked.



Thanks for the response. I was interested on where you're saving your money. Sounds like FCPX has allowed you to not sub out to other video pros and allow you to do the same work yourself. That's awesome.

What gets lost in a lot of this pro/amateur/Adobe/Avid/Apple argument is that FCPX does serve some people well. I'll admit that it was a wild disappointment from my viewpoint, but it is nice to see others getting value from it.

I think we can all agree that we want Apple to work with pros and amateurs alike to create the best NLE out there.

Thank you,

I responded in detail, because I am an amateur and not a pro. For my opinion to be valid it must make sense for the OP's business. I think some Pros are angry because some of the easier stuff - black screen, white screen, etc... has become accessible with FCX or iMovie Pro LOL & combined with Motion .... but for my needs it works perfect.

With that being said, as I said above my needs maybe are different than the OP's as you can see with my business model. I think a lot of amateurs like me will be served well with X. I am not making movies. I need good quality video mostly for the web and X works for me. I think my guy was a little upset that he is losing the $1500 - $3000 a video and maybe I was overpaying? I personally believe in paying creatives what they are worth.

I think as other people on here, mostly Pros, have stated if you are comfortable with a software stick with it. I just was in a similar stage as the OP and the little I learned about FCS helped transition to X. I figured I might as well dive into X so I bought a bunch of tutorials and dug in.

With that being said if someone changed Logic or Garageband. I use both a lot... I would be with the pros and super angry too. I think Apple totally dropped the ball on they way they did this intro - they should have supported the old until the new matches the old. I do think they gave the Pros the finger in a way. I don't make my living with my video so I totally understand the Pros viewpoint and support it.

I guess you have to match the man with the mission.

Thank you for the kind response HP - not trying to sell anything on here, actually trying to help others. Where I can help more is audio and I will be posting in there more....I think with Audio as I make my living and do it daily I can say I am a Pro .

All the best and have a great weekend,

JB

 

[racketeer71]

I am a HaganaH Fight instructor and this is web site I am helping build for one of my best friends and mentors Mike Lee Kanarek - I did this with lighting etc... and motion a few weeks ago...

http://www.haganahnews.com

A quick question:

I love the all-black-background-man-in-ultra-sharp-focus style (common in some documentaries), but how did you achieve it in this situation?

What kind of gear were you using - and how was it placed?

Could it be done with a green screen and then keying it out afterwards?

I'm a budding documentary-maker, and thought of making a thread to ask this question, when I saw that video. The same style (although zoomed into the interviewees heads) is seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPavxiKKT2w

 

[Jbgloss]

Totally cool

A quick question:

I love the all-black-background-man-in-ultra-sharp-focus style (common in some documentaries), but how did you achieve it in this situation?

What kind of gear were you using - and how was it placed?

Could it be done with a green screen and then keying it out afterwards?

I'm a budding documentary-maker, and thought of making a thread to ask this question, when I saw that video. The same style (although zoomed into the interviewees heads) is seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPavxiKKT2w

I love that look too - here is how I did it -

It is all about space and lighting. We went to the gym which is 3000 sq ft so I had a lot to work with. It is really black in there with the lights off which is key.

I set the camera up 10 ft in front of MLK (subject) I then lit him with standard 3 point lighting. I have some cheap can lights I paid $100 bucks for on ebay. They are pretty hard lights if you have soft boxes the lighting would be better..... So I had an overhead, Key and fill - they key here is to not have light spill behind.

I then bought a cheap black sheet at Kmart around $12 and had that behind the subject. I had it about 10 feet too. That way there was no spill light hitting the back drop all the light was on the subject. ONLY

I then Zoomed. (Like going after a depth of field effect) If I would have went for a head shot as the documentary example you posted I think it would have been even clearer.

Again I am sure others can do better, there are pros on here but that is how I did it. I can get the "APPLE" white background doing the same set up and totally over exposing the backdrop instead of black and have a white sheet or wall and just concentrate a ton of light on it. For both you need to have 2 separate light zones. One on the subject and either dark for Black or Massive over exposure for White.

I would suggest better backdrops then a KMART sheet lol, but I was in a hurry.

I also light green screen for the white - with Motion I can key pretty good and almost get the same effect. The key to all this is having enough space. Hard to get the effect cramped in. The light spills too much....
I don't like to key black backgrounds...(Key out for black background, probably just me) I actually try to avoid green screen as much as possible.....

I hope this helps, I am no expert by any means. If I had to shoot that over I would have boomed it. My Senn wireless lav was acting up so I just went with it but boomed MIC right above would have been better audio.

You can shoot these backgrounds with DSLR - I think when you zoom as you would to get depth of field you can get a rich background. I am shooting with the Canon XF 100 which has 2 Audio Channels on Board which for me makes life easy in post. It does not have the large sensor of a DSLR, but I think Cannon has done a good job with it.

BTW I shot that on Auto except for aperture all the way to F1.8 just like getting depth of field. With this camera I am sure I could have shot it just on full auto, but I was playing

Like I said I am not a pro, I just shoot, If I can help please let me know, so many have helped me on here.

 

[Jbgloss]

Totally cool

Sorry this double posted for some reason - tired to delete

 

[WestSt]

Thanks!

Thanks for all replies!

I will have to think about what to do. When I posted, for reasons mentioned, I´d already set a irrevocable premise for myself: either sell FCS2 and get X, or stick with FCS2. EITHER OR - NOTHING ELSE.... It´s not like I can´t afford X, I´m just a strange, stubborn individual in some cases

So I guess if this was a poll, based on your responses, the result would be:

Sell FCS2 and get X 30%
Don´t sell FCS2 and get X just to try it out 70%

However, the winning result was not an option. But seriously, I also need to get some new video recording gear soon, and thats one more reason to keep my budget in check. If I´m to get at least something from selling my FCS2, now would be the time to sell.

Well, I have some old DJ-turntables I might get enough for FCPX if I sell them, cause vinyl music isn´t the future either, is it... LOL

 

[Nostromo]

Do you have the latest iMovie on your machine?

From what I heard iMovie shares workflow moments with FCP X. So you can find out if you like it that way.

 

[mBox]

Do you have the latest iMovie on your machine?

From what I heard iMovie shares workflow moments with FCP X. So you can find out if you like it that way.

I wouldnt say that close. Ive had to use iMovie even recently (family needed help) and no it does not come close to FCPX.

 

[LethalWolfe]

If I´m to get at least something from selling my FCS2, now would be the time to sell.

The time would've been 3 years ago. FCS 2 is from '07 and can't be installed on Lion. You seem bent on ditching FCS 2 for FCP 10 regardless of what other people say so why not just pull the trigger?


Lethal