Senate Draft Encryption Bill Called 'Absurd,' 'Dangerous,' and Technically Inept

[dk001]

Strange isn't it.

We accept and are happy that "other people - who we don't know"

Can access our bank accounts, our passport information, our pension information, be able to get into our cars if needed, be able to get into our homes if needed, examine our wages, probably every single thing about you, data wise we accept as being able to get to, by "the right people"
Yet our phones OMG Nooooooooooooooooo.

But if we lost our house or car keys, would be demand it impossible that anyone could help us get back in again?

You totally miss the point of all of this. For LEO to access each of the items you listed, a separate and approved warrant is required. The smartphone has now offered all that information in one place. One stop shopping AND without the need for separate approved warrants. Instead they can have one warrant to examine one thing on your smartphone and have access to everything else by default. Everything. A universal key to your life. That has serious legal, ethical, and civic issues.

You want to better understand? Take a civics course; one that slants toward personal instead of business. Though that is a good option too.

 

[theBostonian]

Proof? Instead of the ad hominem attack, how about explaining what is wrong with the bill.



Misogynistic, yes. Just because you don't find Senator Feinstein attractive doesn't mean there is something wrong with the proposed legislation. Explain what is wrong with the bill, leaving out the part about why you prefer the appearance of some 20-something actress to that of Senator Feinstein.

Seriously, vast swaths of these threads are full of pointless personal attacks. If you think there is something wrong with this bill-- articulate it!

You completely missed the point my comment was trying to make. As a gay man I don't really care what Feinstein looks like or the fact she's not a 20-something actress. You focused on completely the wrong thing; it's not about her looks, it's about her methods. I could have compared her to a reptile in the process of moulting, or a slew of other repulsive things she resembled but it wouldn't strike the note that I wanted. However, comparing her to an unsavoury villain who used democracy against itself via fear for his own personal gain does strike the right note.

Grow up and develop a deeper reading comprehension, preferably without the "perennially offended" lenses.

 

[dk001]

Sorry but I still think many here are not being honest.
Why do I say that, and what do I mean you ask?

What I mean is, it's fine and easy to Rant, Complain and stand up for THE GREATER GOOD when it's something that does not affect you personally.

It's like the way, many people will slag off, and moan at the police, Hate the Pigs and other such remarks, but boy, when THEIR home is burgled, their car stolen, or their daughter raped.. BLAM it's straight onto the phone DEMANDING action and for help to deal with the problem that now affect them.

This is true of course, even if we don't like to admit it.

Show me a person who has lost their life savings, lost their home, Daughter been kidnapped, and has the balls when told "we will have to hack into the phone to solve the crime, get your money, home, daughter back"

If that person says "NO. I stand by my believe, I will willingly give up my Money, Home, Daughter for the Greater Good"
Then I will be mighty impressed by that person, they have the balls and bottle to stand by their believe.

Sadly I suspect most people. The rules change and sod the greater good as it's affecting ME now.

Like the politicians and LEO's who are putting forth this drivel, you are attempting to wave an emotional flag and proclaim that the one takes precedence over the few or the many. When those folks you talk about can discuss without the deep emotion, most would not agree with you. Think then act. Emotionally distraught folks almost never do.
You do us all a disservice.

 

[Larry-K]

Like the politicians and LEO's who are putting forth this drivel, you are attempting to wave an emotional flag and proclaim that the one takes precedence over the few or the many. When those folks you talk about can discuss without the deep emotion, most would not agree with you. Think then act. Emotionally distraught folks almost never do.
You do us all a disservice.

I think the equivalent of "The Greater Good" is commonly used to induce suicide bombers to suit up.

 

[decafjava]

Ha, one of the only two good characters in the prequels (the other being Obi Wan of course). Except in real life we are stuck with politicians as inept as Jar Jar Binks who are intent on taking us down the same road as the fictional Palpatine.

Unless...

 

[nsayer]

For hundreds of years, it was possible and perfectly legal to write and post letters using codes and ciphers that were ostensibly incomprehensible to the authorities of the day. All manner of illegal enterprises have traditionally used codes and ciphers to obfuscate their records in the face of law enforcement and the planets remained steadfast in their orbits.

Now all of a sudden because it's easier to do so, the authorities demand an end to it.

I call shenanigans.

I'd like to see everyone pick a random AES key, encrypt the phrase "Keep your hands off my phone!" and print the ciphertext and mail it to the FBI headquarters.

 

[dk001]

You know...if we had even just the most basic of basic knowledge quizzes before letting people vote we wouldn't get stuck with such stupid and inept representatives.

As it stands, our Congress and Senate are very representative...of a bunch of idiots! They are literally chosen by the lowest common demominator: the 400 lbs reality TV-watching high-school-dropout workers-comp scamming types.

If we just had a basic quiz before letting someone vote, asking a question like "what is the third planet from the sun" or "name one senator of the US" we wouldn't get stuck with such idiots in the Congress and the senate.

Because right now, the US is getting exactly the type of government it votes for....and that's NOT A good thing.

It's the clipboard syndrome. Unfortunately for them the public is starting to catch on. Today you couldn't get that august group to vote on whether the sun rises in the east or west.
[doublepost=1460408552][/doublepost]

I understand the statistics. How is digital data gathering not "real police work?" You may as well tell them to stop using phones. The rationale is absurd.

My other point is that this bill is all part of the legislative process. These privacy issues WILL and SHOULD be debated in Congress.

In Congress as an open discussion for the most part involving the technical / legal / ethical / civic experts with a large side order of public forums. Let's get it as close to right as we can the first time.

 

[dk001]

Gerrymandering and our messed up campaign system are just symptoms of a bigger problem: dumb people. It's not fashionable to think this way but I think it's completely true, there's so many dumb Americans out there that they electorally overwhelm those with any modicum of common sense.

It's why people like Donald Trump and Ted Cruz and Bush are considered serious candidates: dumb people will vote for them because they're about as intelligent as cows. You can't fix it by changing the politicians..you have to change the voters, otherwise we'll keep on getting the same stupid results year after year.

You can't seriously expect intelligent results from a bunch of (mostly stupid) people getting together and voting. Doubt my assertion that most American voters are stupid...? Look at any poll saying "X percent of Americans believe Z is true" and then talk to me.

I wouldn't say stupid. Misguided and misinformed.
Couple of months back we had a local meeting with our area rep (state) about a growing issue - homeless tent ad hoc.
What amazed me (maybe not so much) was the majority of attendees seriously believed what was being reported as the gospel truth. There was another large group that believed that what was legal decades ago still applied unchanged. Those of us who looked into the matter and did some reading were in the minority.

People just don't know.

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

What would make a this new Federal govt immune to the same special interests?

I never said the Federal government is immune to the power of special interests. The benefit to reducing the relative power of states is that history has shown it to be too cheap for special interests to influence states one by one, and too easy for demagogues to gain power in small states.

[doublepost=1460412441][/doublepost]

You completely missed the point my comment was trying to make. As a gay man I don't really care what Feinstein looks like or the fact she's not a 20-something actress. You focused on completely the wrong thing; it's not about her looks, it's about her methods. I could have compared her to a reptile in the process of moulting, or a slew of other repulsive things she resembled but it wouldn't strike the note that I wanted. However, comparing her to an unsavoury villain who used democracy against itself via fear for his own personal gain does strike the right note.

So now we have reptiles (BTW, why do you think reptiles are "repulsive"? Perhaps you should spend a little more time outdoors?) as a comparison, but, still, no explanation of why the proposed legislation is bad.

Grow up and develop a deeper reading comprehension, preferably without the "perennially offended" lenses.

You must have me mixed up with someone else. You still have not articulated exactly what is wrong with the proposed law.

 

[dk001]

I think the equivalent of "The Greater Good" is commonly used to induce suicide bombers to suit up.

From a radical religious perspective and at a very emotional level.
So no.

Make sure you don't miss the "emotional" aspect of your post.

 

[Larry-K]

From a radical religious perspective and at a very emotional level.
So no.

Make sure you don't miss the "emotional" aspect of your post.

The "Greater Good" appeal typically can justify anything, no matter how bad it is.

 

[8281]

There's a lot more to police work than just gathering data. If what you're saying were true, no crime before the invention of smartphones would have ever been solved.

Of course, who thinks the police are just sitting around trying to hack into phones without gathering other evidence? You build a case by gathering all available evidence, some of which may be on a phone or other device.

 

[JamesPDX]

Add age limits too please. After 80 your time is well past over.

Check back when you turn 80. You may find that you've suddenly changed your mind. Clock's a-tickin'...

 

[derek4484]

You just know that if Burr and Feinstein are cooperating on a Bill....it MUST be really BAD for the average American. Neither of them have the average American's best interests at heart and just goes to show that the D's and R's are just two sides of the same evil coin. Both will trample and shred the constitution at the drop of a hat....just for different reasons. The D's want some kind of big brother socialist utopia, and the R's want some kind of militarized police state in the name of "safety".

 

[tampageek]

Of course, who thinks the police are just sitting around trying to hack into phones without gathering other evidence? You build a case by gathering all available evidence, some of which may be on a phone or other device.

There's still no substitute for actual interviews. There is so much info to glean from personal observation (body language, etc.)

 

[DJ Dilbert]

I wouldn't say stupid. Misguided and misinformed.
Couple of months back we had a local meeting with are area rep (state) about a growing issue - homeless tent ad hoc.
What amazed me (maybe not so much) was the majority of attendees seriously believed what was being reported as the gospel truth. There was another large group that believed that what was legal decades ago still applied unchanged. Those of us who looked into the matter and did some reading were in the minority.

People just don't know.

Well people anymore expect to be "spoonfed" information rather than questioning things, researching (aka learning) and developing an educated opinion or having actual factual info. Now since they demand this "spoonfed" information, they can be told whatever someone wants them to believe is true and they will accept it as such.
[doublepost=1460468378][/doublepost]

So now we have reptiles (BTW, why do you think reptiles are "repulsive"? Perhaps you should spend a little more time outdoors?) as a comparison, but, still, no explanation of why the proposed legislation is bad.

I think he was referring to her actions not her looks. "She looks like [the emperor] in drag". In this case her looks carries a double meaning.

Unless you are being a sarcastic forum troll...
[doublepost=1460468599][/doublepost]

You just know that if Burr and Feinstein are cooperating on a Bill....it MUST be really BAD for the average American. Neither of them have the average American's best interests at heart and just goes to show that the D's and R's are just two sides of the same evil coin. Both will trample and shred the constitution at the drop of a hat....just for different reasons. The D's want some kind of big brother socialist utopia, and the R's want some kind of militarized police state in the name of "safety".

Which is why I've been hoping for a D/R reform, a new political party or the abolishment of both political parties in favor of something more representative of the citizens.

 

[You are the One]

It just goes to show you how stupid us Americans really are. Sometimes I'm embarrassed .

Europeans are as stupid, or there is a lag of a couple of years, but we are getting there.

 

[dk001]

The "Greater Good" appeal typically can justify anything, no matter how bad it is.

I agree. It is when you add in the "emotional" aspect that people make spur of the moment judgement decisions that are usually incorrect and not what they would do when thought through.
[doublepost=1460475997][/doublepost]

Of course, who thinks the police are just sitting around trying to hack into phones without gathering other evidence? You build a case by gathering all available evidence, some of which may be on a phone or other device.

True. However when you look at what the FBI/DOJ/LEO are attempting to portray is the flip. They are playing this up as "the most critical piece is on that device" and claim they have no way to get that data. It resides nowhere else.

A claim that is so untrue.

 

[theBostonian]

You must have me mixed up with someone else. You still have not articulated exactly what is wrong with the proposed law.

I don't need to, plenty of others have put it in far more eloquent terms than I could ever hope to.

The wrongness of the proposals are self-evident. Personal privacy & liberty always trump the state, end of.

 

[miniyou64]

Gov needs to stop CAUSING problems by abusing its power.

The role of the fed gov is to protect the health and safety of the public, (clean water, air, food & workplace safety) etc., national defense, education, power grid etc., the basics for a functional society with opportunity for all, and guarantee free and FAIR elections.

Nothing in the role of gov should include rigging elections, regulating the sexual habits of anyone, or invading personal privacy.
[doublepost=1460376795][/doublepost]

Oh then we agree. Except that I think a private market could do a far better job at all of those federal things too.

 

[drumcat]

If you pay congressman 2 million a year, I and every other Joe blow in my district will run for office.

And that, my friend, IS the point. Good! That's what should happen! I imagine that out of all the Joe Blows, there'd be some really qualified candidates that aren't just rich pricks taking money.
[doublepost=1460520881][/doublepost]

That just causes people to run for the $ which would cause even bigger problems. Granted they should get a good pay but 2 mill? No.

Why not? Are they less important than the star quarterback? You want someone with a brain in there, right? Someone with the WANT to represent people, not the desire strictly for re-election...

Disenfranchisement is the greatest threat to a working republic. Offering something like 1-2 mill/year is the way that you get someone who will work hard as hell for two years. The way it works now is they go into the phone booth and start hitting people for money as soon as they get elected. How does that encourage ANYONE to believe that their republic represents them?

The Republic envisaged by the Founders was one of representative democracy. You can call it a democracy all you want because we have voting legislatures. It is no longer a republic, because the representation is anything by, of, or for the People. That's the tragedy.

 

[tampageek]

Oh then we agree. Except that I think a private market could do a far better job at all of those federal things too.

That would be nice if we had real capitalism here - but we don't. Due to monopolies, 2/3rd's of Americans have only one option for things like TV/Cable and/or internet access/ electricity/ phone.

The gov lied when they said deregulation would bring lower prices and more competition. My cable bill went from $18 a month -before deregulation - to $125 a month today. You'd have to be incredibly math challenged to not see who benefits from privatizing everything with for-profit monopolies.

Private co's already provide electricity, but need to be regulated or your electric bill would be $900 a month or some other greedy amount.

 

[You are the One]

Very interesting discussion on security. The Security Now Podcast (find it in iTunes) with Leo Laporte and Steve Gibson. In this episode the talk about the bill and other interesting things, WhatsApp encryption being one of them.

Here is a direct link to the show. (Don't know how to link to an iTunes podcast)

 

[satcomer]

If you want to get into the iPhone just look it up on YouTube!

 

[Benjamin Frost]

If you want to get into the iPhone just look it up on YouTube!

Wow!

Boom. If this video is correct, then there goes Apple's security credentials in one fell swoop. I can't believe it is this easy.

This video single-handedly has made 1 billion Apple devices insecure. Should this not be a front page story around the world?