Senate Draft Encryption Bill Called 'Absurd,' 'Dangerous,' and Technically Inept

[tampageek]

To be honest, I'd rather that they argue, bicker, and not pass laws. It's kind of funny, when you read the US Constitution, there are 13 things that the US Congress is supposed to do, and the rest of things are relegated to the States. However, when the US Senate became a 2nd House of Representatives in 1913, it was all down hill from there. There is no "second chamber of cooler heads," but a bunch of people kowtowing to the tempers of the People every 6 years, then back to 5 years of whatever they want to do (see McCain, John, Mister "Maverick "every 6 years, then Mr. "I want to be a Democrat too!" on the other 5.).

For those that say, "But what about the People? Why don't they get to elect the Senators?"
I say this, "You do have a House in the Federal Government. The House of Representatives. The States don't have any say in the Federal Government, but the Federal Government passes legislation that forces the States to do things. How is that fair?"

The federal govt is the glue that holds the "united" states together. State rights are not a free pass to ignore or over ride federal laws. Local laws should build on fed law and be tailored to improve local communities - not make them seem like another planet.

For example, fishing laws in FL relating to the Gulf of Mexico would be stupid in Wyoming, etc. On the other hand, air pollution does not respect state lines. If I CHOOSE to live in a state with strict clean air laws, why then should I be choked by the filthy air of a neighboring state that has deregulated as much of the clean air act as they legally can?

Federal laws set minimum standards so the quality of life across the country is not drastically different. What we see now is a race to the bottom with some states doing everything they can to keep wages low, pollution high and taxes low ONLY for the people with the most money. This is not sustainable, which is why so many people are finally waking up and lining up at voting booths.

 

[ron7624]

The problem is that we have no leaders. Anyone competent enough to run for any powerful and meaningful office is smart enough not to.....

 

[Larry-K]

They'll scan probably for common words/ideas like terrorsim, crime, etc to prevent it. In the bit more far future technology will become available to third parties and then we can expect anything. Crime based on reading passwords from brains, so people will have to switch purely to bio authentification; paparazzi scanning celebrities and tabloid healines like "The Dirtiest Thouhtgs Of Justin Bieber!" and much more. It'll be an interesting time.

I'm sure Philip K Dick already wrote that story.

But a lot of brain-scanned passwords, that people can actually remember, are just going to be "password".
[doublepost=1460318666][/doublepost]

Every American citizen.

Well Thank God (pick one or none), we all agree on everything.

 

[Popeye206]

The profits Apple makes from selling iPhones outside of USA are peanuts compared to the profits "Apple" makes by selling their patents to Apple's shell company in Ireland at a very low cost (therfore the profits from patent sales in usa is low). I put Apple in quotation marks because it is Apple's shell company in Ireland that is making the profits. Apple, the company in USA, has to pay huge patent licensing fees to the shell company in Ireland.

That is how huge profits are made outside of USA, by cheating. Yeah it is legal but describe that patent shell game to a normal person and they would say that is money laundering. Double taxed lol. That is a red hearing Apple wants people to be thinking about and center the discussion around that while ignoring the game Apple plays with patents.

Do you seriously think there are tons of iPhones sold in Ireland?

Source: http://appleinsider.com/articles/13...se-loophole-apple-uses-to-avoid-high-us-taxes
... The process involves setting up an Irish subsidiary, such as Apple's headquarters in Cork, which is paid profits on products sold in the U.S. as royalties on patents owned by the company. These patents are assigned to an offshore entity located in a no-tax country, like the Caribbean, meaning Irish tax is not applicable to said income. ...​

Again... loopholes is another word for tax laws and companies and people that use the tax laws to maximize their profits... there is nothing wrong with that? It's legal... no different than you taking your mortgage interest deduction or investing in an IRA to avoid taxes. Again... this is something many companies do, not just Apple.

Why are people so freaking upset over how business is done... spend energy on useful things like why our government wants to waste so many tax dollars and spends more time debating silly nonsense laws instead of really working to help bring real jobs back to America.

 

[VulchR]

My two thoughts about this bill: First, stupid is as stupid does. We need better in Congress. Second, any member of Congress thinking about playing fast and loose with Constitutional rights had better have their head examined. Public approval of this Congress over the past two years is the lowest it has been since 1974 (see http://www.gallup.com/poll/1600/congress-public.aspx) – is it any wonder why?

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

I say this, "You do have a House in the Federal Government. The House of Representatives. The States don't have any say in the Federal Government, but the Federal Government passes legislation that forces the States to do things. How is that fair?"

Your faith in state governments is touching, considering that state governments have long been the (successful) targets of special interests, and "state sovereignty" has always been the favorite refuge for racial and religious bigotry since the founding of the Republic, including, but not limited to, slavery, Jim Crow, anti-LGBT laws, and laws favorable to and/or based on particular religious sects religious views.

As far as I am concerned, the U.S. needs a constitutional amendment to abolish state sovereignty and make the states 100% subordinate to a popularly-elected federal government. Along with an amendment abolishing corporate citizenship and making corporations legal-entities only, uniformly nationally chartered and taxed. My $.02.

 

[Larry-K]

The way he sells the message, not caring one wit how you get there, makes him a radical, not the end point.
He seems to not realize what country he actually lives in and how things get done; he talks like a 1960s leftist forgetting why they haven't succeeded. He seems to want everything right now and don't understand pushback that will come with that.

That's the problem, nothing gets done around here. Except for the occasional pointless undeclared war, and the incessant shoveling of money to the rich, while the infrastructure rots.

"Everything right now"? How about "Anything right now?" The problem isn't the end point, it's that there's no starting point, and status quo is failing Americans. You can lay most of the failures in the federal government to the shift to the right over the last 40 years.

This country was started by "Radicals", or hadn't you noticed?

Bernie's been in the Senate for how long? I think he knows how things get done, and don't get done. (There's no ramming anything through around here, except for the ACA [AKA "Romneycare", still waiting for that great alternative from the other side], and Medicare Part D, the biggest ripoff piece of corporate welfare ever, that nobody seems to even notice).

If we need something really screwed up, we call the Supreme Court, and they were more than willing to help until recently. Now, they can't make any real decisions, until the Senate decides to stop violating their constitutional oath and do their job.

1960's leftist? You'd better define who that is? Must be Nixon. There were a lot of good ideas in the 60s and it took a lot of special interest power and money to suppress them, in order for us to end up in the sad state we're at today.

So what are you so bent out of shape about, anyway? You've got universal healthcare, shale oil, that phoney bacon that's really ham and your cute prime minister. You guys ought to be happy as clams, not complaining about our politics.

If you think anybody running has more integrity than Bernie, you're just wrong. Doesn't mean you have to agree with him, in fact since you're Canadian, it doesn't even matter.

If it bothers you so much, come on down here where it's 80°, become a citizen, and put your money where your mouth is. I'm sure not coming up to your frozen climes to solve your problems.

Just don't expect anything from the government unless Bernie gets in.

 

[tampageek]

My two thoughts about this bill: First, stupid is as stupid does. We need better in Congress. Second, any member of Congress thinking about playing fast and loose with Constitutional rights had better have their head examined. Public approval of this Congress over the past two years is the lowest it has been since 1974 (see http://www.gallup.com/poll/1600/congress-public.aspx) – is it any wonder why?

I agree on all points. The problem is (by design) congressional districts are so gerrymandered that there is almost no way to get them out. Gerrymandering also allows them to not care about governing. They're pretty much guaranteed reelection no matter what they do - or don't do. No accountability=gridlock on steroids.

 

[AxoNeuron]

You know...if we had even just the most basic of basic knowledge quizzes before letting people vote we wouldn't get stuck with such stupid and inept representatives.

As it stands, our Congress and Senate are very representative...of a bunch of idiots! They are literally chosen by the lowest common demominator: the 400 lbs reality TV-watching high-school-dropout workers-comp scamming types.

If we just had a basic quiz before letting someone vote, asking a question like "what is the third planet from the sun" or "name one senator of the US" we wouldn't get stuck with such idiots in the Congress and the senate.

Because right now, the US is getting exactly the type of government it votes for....and that's NOT A good thing.

 

[RogerWilco]

Your faith in state governments is touching, considering that state governments have long been the (successful) targets of special interests, and "state sovereignty" has always been the favorite refuge for racial and religious bigotry since the founding of the Republic, including, but not limited to, slavery, Jim Crow, anti-LGBT laws, and laws favorable to and/or based on particular religious sects religious views.

As far as I am concerned, the U.S. needs a constitutional amendment to abolish state sovereignty and make the states 100% subordinate to a popularly-elected federal government. Along with an amendment abolishing corporate citizenship and making corporations legal-entities only, uniformly nationally chartered and taxed. My $.02.

Didn't you forget the President for Life amendment? And while you're at it, just abolish Congress and the Supreme Court -- they serve no purpose when really smart people like yourself can plan everything for the rest of us plebes.

 

[robogobo]

My two thoughts about this bill: First, stupid is as stupid does. We need better in Congress. Second, any member of Congress thinking about playing fast and loose with Constitutional rights had better have their head examined. Public approval of this Congress over the past two years is the lowest it has been since 1974 (see http://www.gallup.com/poll/1600/congress-public.aspx) – is it any wonder why?

But they don't care about their approval ratings. Somehow they still seem to get re-elected, maybe because the voters don't disapprove enough to get off their arse and unseat them.

 

[hiddenmarkov]

Dianne Feinstein, 82-year-old senator from California: RETIRE.
What's next? Blame and charge manufacturers when unbalanced extremists kill while using products of those manufacturers?

Can't happen. the gun nuts would be up in arms. things would be simpler for them if the bad guys would use AK's or knockoffs or foreign weapons as a whole. But sometimes they go for made in the USA firearms. To which they say well it was never intended to be used for this so leave us alone.

Same thing applies to this though. Dr's Diffie and Hellman and others who developed their encryption works were not going yep this will screw over the governments of the world which is our evil plan (insert evil scientist laugh here). Sadly some in power don't see that. Why its not getting the protection of good ole our right to bear firearms protection.....no clue really. Guess the eggheads of cryptography will have to unite and make a PAC like the NRA.

Also some don't seem to know their history. My usual example, cosa nostra. Been in the US for decades. The mafia has done their thing long before cellphones, vpn technologies, secured comms like VOIP, etc. Fun fact...they ran this stuff quite well even under the old days of POTS (plain ole telephone system). No one came after Ma Bell for this. For those who remember bell telephone before its antitrust break up, it would have bee one central entity to litigate vice todays several comm. companies.

 

[applezulu]

You know...if we had even just the most basic of basic knowledge quizzes before letting people vote we wouldn't get stuck with such stupid and inept representatives.

As it stands, our Congress and Senate are very representative...of a bunch of idiots! They are literally chosen by the lowest common demominator: the 400 lbs reality TV-watching high-school-dropout workers-comp scamming types.

If we just had a basic quiz before letting someone vote, asking a question like "what is the third planet from the sun" or "name one senator of the US" we wouldn't get stuck with such idiots in the Congress and the senate.

Because right now, the US is getting exactly the type of government it votes for....and that's NOT A good thing.

Nope. Tests before voting is one aspect of Jim Crow laws used to prevent black people from voting. In the south, the tests were manipulated to be impossible when a black person showed up to vote. "How many jelly beans are in this jar?" It is quite impossible to have something like knowledge tests before voting not become a means to corruptly disenfranchise voters who are simply disfavored by those who are in power. Besides, dumb people voting is not the problem, so knowledge tests won't fix the problem. (Even if your intent were pure, just exactly what knowledge is fair to require?)

The two key problems with US elections are gerrymandered districts and unchecked money in political campaigns. Fix one or both of those things, and you'll see an immediate improvement.

 

[8281]

More people are killed by rednecks with guns than terrorists. I am not going to surrender my right to encryption to the government because they're looking for the easy way out, and can't think of any other way to do their job.

I'm also not willing to surrender my personal info so cops can chase after a handful of perverts and low level drug dealers. Let them do police work the old fashioned way - get off the desk and do real detective work.

They are trying to scare morons cowering in the corners into surrendering their constitutional right to privacy. You are still more likely to be shot by a redneck in a shopping center or movie theater or school than you are to be killed by a terrorist. I don't see anyone rushing out laws to "keep us safe" from lunatics who want open carry guns in church. This country is heading down the toilet fast.

I understand the statistics. How is digital data gathering not "real police work?" You may as well tell them to stop using phones. The rationale is absurd.

My other point is that this bill is all part of the legislative process. These privacy issues WILL and SHOULD be debated in Congress.

 

[miniyou64]

The federal govt is the glue that holds the "united" states together. State rights are not a free pass to ignore or over ride federal laws. Local laws should build on fed law and be tailored to improve local communities - not make them seem like another planet.

For example, fishing laws in FL relating to the Gulf of Mexico would be stupid in Wyoming, etc. On the other hand, air pollution does not respect state lines. If I CHOOSE to live in a state with strict clean air laws, why then should I be choked by the filthy air of a neighboring state that has deregulated as much of the clean air act as they legally can?

Federal laws set minimum standards so the quality of life across the country is not drastically different. What we see now is a race to the bottom with some states doing everything they can to keep wages low, pollution high and taxes low ONLY for the people with the most money. This is not sustainable, which is why so many people are finally waking up and lining up at voting booths.

It sounds like you think government can solve all our problems. Government creates the problems in the first place.

 

[AxoNeuron]

Nope. Tests before voting is one aspect of Jim Crow laws used to prevent black people from voting. In the south, the tests were manipulated to be impossible when a black person showed up to vote. "How many jelly beans are in this jar?" It is quite impossible to have something like knowledge tests before voting not become a means to corruptly disenfranchise voters who are simply disfavored by those who are in power. Besides, dumb people voting is not the problem, so knowledge tests won't fix the problem. (Even if your intent were pure, just exactly what knowledge is fair to require?)

The two key problems with US elections are gerrymandered districts and unchecked money in political campaigns. Fix one or both of those things, and you'll see an immediate improvement.

Gerrymandering and our messed up campaign system are just symptoms of a bigger problem: dumb people. It's not fashionable to think this way but I think it's completely true, there's so many dumb Americans out there that they electorally overwhelm those with any modicum of common sense.

It's why people like Donald Trump and Ted Cruz and Bush are considered serious candidates: dumb people will vote for them because they're about as intelligent as cows. You can't fix it by changing the politicians..you have to change the voters, otherwise we'll keep on getting the same stupid results year after year.

You can't seriously expect intelligent results from a bunch of (mostly stupid) people getting together and voting. Doubt my assertion that most American voters are stupid...? Look at any poll saying "X percent of Americans believe Z is true" and then talk to me.

 

[miniyou64]

Gerrymandering and our messed up campaign system are just symptoms of a bigger problem: dumb people. It's not fashionable to think this way but I think it's completely true, there's so many dumb Americans out there that they electorally overwhelm those with any modicum of common sense.

It's why people like Donald Trump and Ted Cruz and Bush are considered serious candidates: dumb people will vote for them because they're about as intelligent as cows. You can't fix it by changing the politicians..you have to change the voters, otherwise we'll keep on getting the same stupid results year after year.

You can't seriously expect intelligent results from a bunch of (mostly stupid) people getting together and voting. Doubt my assertion that most American voters are stupid...? Look at any poll saying "X percent of Americans believe Z is true" and then talk to me.

Oh lets indoctrinate people because I'm smarter than everyone else and they all need to think like me.

 

[AxoNeuron]

Oh lets indoctrinate people because I'm smarter than everyone else and they all need to think like me.

I'm not saying we should be asking opinion questions and essays as requirements to vote...

I'm more suggesting that we ask simple questions like "what color is the sky" and "Suzy has five apples, she eats two, how many apples does Suzy have now?". You'd be shocked at how many voters incorrectly answer simple questions like that. I don't think most of us realize just HOW stupid the average voter really is. George W. Bush wasn't an accident: these people came out and voted for him in the MILLIONS. Add a basic intelligence test before voting and we will never get such stupid politicians ever again. Because mostly stupid voters vote for mostly stupid politicians.

Seriously, just read the news. There's a reason we are still arguing about teaching evolution in schools and gay marriage. America isn't ruled by a cabal of evil corporate CEO's or some politician in Washington...it's ruled by the lowest common denominator.

 

[miniyou64]

I'm not saying we should be asking opinion questions and essays as requirements to vote...

I'm more suggesting that we ask simple questions like "what color is the sky" and "Suzy has five apples, she eats two, how many apples does Suzy have now?". You'd be shocked at how many voters incorrectly answer simple questions like that. I don't think most of us realize just HOW stupid the average voter really is. George W. Bush wasn't an accident: these people came out and voted for him in the MILLIONS. Add a basic intelligence test before voting and we will never get such stupid politicians ever again. Because mostly stupid voters vote for mostly stupid politicians.

Seriously, just read the news. There's a reason we are still arguing about teaching evolution in schools and gay marriage. America isn't ruled by a cabal of evil corporate CEO's or some politician in Washington...it's ruled by the lowest common denominator.

I think people who vote are wasting their time. If your vote mattered they wouldn't let you do it. Where does that put me on your scale of intelligence? Should I go lobby to have a law passed that forces you to think like me? Where does it end? Why are you more intelligent because you don't like Bush? So you like Obama better? They're 2 sides of the same coin.

 

[CSpackler]

Your faith in state governments is touching, considering that state governments have long been the (successful) targets of special interests, and "state sovereignty" has always been the favorite refuge for racial and religious bigotry since the founding of the Republic, including, but not limited to, slavery, Jim Crow, anti-LGBT laws, and laws favorable to and/or based on particular religious sects religious views.

As far as I am concerned, the U.S. needs a constitutional amendment to abolish state sovereignty and make the states 100% subordinate to a popularly-elected federal government. Along with an amendment abolishing corporate citizenship and making corporations legal-entities only, uniformly nationally chartered and taxed. My $.02.

What would make a this new Federal govt immune to the same special interests? What would happen should there be some sort of national catastrophe or economic collapse with a large, centralized power like that in place, a single point of failure? Suddenly the entire US would become susceptible to a coup from an opportunistic political party. While not perfect, decentralized state govts with multiple failure points would at least put up a fight against something like this.

 

[MrWillie]

There's a reason we are still arguing about teaching evolution in schools and gay marriage. America isn't ruled by a cabal of evil corporate CEO's or some politician in Washington...it's ruled by the lowest common denominator.

Yes, it politics and selective education.

 

[iShater]

Fools.

 

[tampageek]

It sounds like you think government can solve all our problems. Government creates the problems in the first place.

Gov needs to stop CAUSING problems by abusing its power.

The role of the fed gov is to protect the health and safety of the public, (clean water, air, food & workplace safety) etc., national defense, education, power grid etc., the basics for a functional society with opportunity for all, and guarantee free and FAIR elections.

Nothing in the role of gov should include rigging elections, regulating the sexual habits of anyone, or invading personal privacy.
[doublepost=1460376795][/doublepost]

I understand the statistics. How is digital data gathering not "real police work?" You may as well tell them to stop using phones. The rationale is absurd.

My other point is that this bill is all part of the legislative process. These privacy issues WILL and SHOULD be debated in Congress.

There's a lot more to police work than just gathering data. If what you're saying were true, no crime before the invention of smartphones would have ever been solved.

 

[DJ Dilbert]

You know...if we had even just the most basic of basic knowledge quizzes before letting people vote we wouldn't get stuck with such stupid and inept representatives.

As it stands, our Congress and Senate are very representative...of a bunch of idiots! They are literally chosen by the lowest common demominator: the 400 lbs reality TV-watching high-school-dropout workers-comp scamming types.

If we just had a basic quiz before letting someone vote, asking a question like "what is the third planet from the sun" or "name one senator of the US" we wouldn't get stuck with such idiots in the Congress and the senate.

Because right now, the US is getting exactly the type of government it votes for....and that's NOT A good thing.

Don't forget the people that just straight vote their party affiliation without know who is running or what they stand for. <sarcasm>Because that's always a smart thing to do!</sarcasm>
[doublepost=1460382170][/doublepost]

If you pay congressman 2 million a year, I and every other Joe blow in my district will run for office.

On the other hand, they wouldn't need to take bribes from lobbyists and corporations. There's a small chance they might be a little more honest about what they stand for. But where would that money come from? Well I guess taxes will increase again...

 

[applezulu]

Gerrymandering and our messed up campaign system are just symptoms of a bigger problem: dumb people. It's not fashionable to think this way but I think it's completely true, there's so many dumb Americans out there that they electorally overwhelm those with any modicum of common sense.

It's why people like Donald Trump and Ted Cruz and Bush are considered serious candidates: dumb people will vote for them because they're about as intelligent as cows. You can't fix it by changing the politicians..you have to change the voters, otherwise we'll keep on getting the same stupid results year after year.

You can't seriously expect intelligent results from a bunch of (mostly stupid) people getting together and voting. Doubt my assertion that most American voters are stupid...? Look at any poll saying "X percent of Americans believe Z is true" and then talk to me.

The inherent problem is: who gets to decide who is "too dumb to vote," and based on what criteria? Be careful what you ask for. The person who gets that authority might choose a definition that makes you 'too dumb to vote.'