Shake 4.1 and Price Drop?

[Lollypop]

Your guesses are as good as mine... There are a few interesting theories being spun over on CGTalk
Beaker seems to have the right idea if you ask me.

So the 2008 date is nothing but a rumor? Interesting!

My concern is that apple shouldn’t be leaving gaps in their product line by killing a product or having to large time gap between big revisions, I admit I don’t really know much about the entire production arena but I can see where shake fits in and how apple shouldn’t leave FCP and motion out in the cold by killing a product like shake, they brought Shake, sold it, they cant kill it now.

 

[longofest]

So the 2008 date is nothing but a rumor? Interesting!

My concern is that apple shouldn’t be leaving gaps in their product line by killing a product or having to large time gap between big revisions, I admit I don’t really know much about the entire production arena but I can see where shake fits in and how apple shouldn’t leave FCP and motion out in the cold by killing a product like shake, they brought Shake, sold it, they cant kill it now.

Apple seems to be addressing the issue kind of well. I mean, the most convenient solution to most people is going to be just keep on developing Shake, right? But for Apple, they have decided to move to a new app. Pro apps like this typically don't receive updates for long streches of time, and production studios don't upgrade very often either. And to help the studios out, Apple is licensing the source so that they can keep their investments running.

 

[Macnoviz]

I'm in. I'm in...

My precious.... My precious.

(I'm assuming you know that Shake was used in LoTR)
Whips out credit card. Stares at 250 price tag

My Precious.....

What didn't they use in LoTR?

on a side note:
I'm just curious, can you "make" special effects with shake, or is it just used to combine various raw materials and roll out the final images?

 

[jelloshotsrule]

What didn't they use in LoTR?

on a side note:
I'm just curious, can you "make" special effects with shake, or is it just used to combine various raw materials and roll out the final images?

i'm not sure what you mean by "make special effects"... special effects is 3D, greenscreen footage, some miniature footage, etc. shake takes all those elements (from other sources), and puts them together. it also does very important work in making it all look good (ie, it's not just plopping the layers on each other).. from removing the green screen, color correcting, wire removal, etc... only thing i'm not sure of is if shake has a particle generator...

 

[Macnoviz]

i'm not sure what you mean by "make special effects"... special effects is 3D, greenscreen footage, some miniature footage, etc. shake takes all those elements (from other sources), and puts them together. it also does very important work in making it all look good (ie, it's not just plopping the layers on each other).. from removing the green screen, color correcting, wire removal, etc... only thing i'm not sure of is if shake has a particle generator...

I meant adding things such as animating a cave troll, setting rocks on fire, add light to light sabers, etc.
Basically generating new footage on top of things (eg with a particle generator)

 

[tk421]

So the 2008 date is nothing but a rumor? Interesting!

My concern is that apple shouldn’t be leaving gaps in their product line by killing a product or having to large time gap between big revisions, I admit I don’t really know much about the entire production arena but I can see where shake fits in and how apple shouldn’t leave FCP and motion out in the cold by killing a product like shake, they brought Shake, sold it, they cant kill it now.

Very few people that use FCP also use Shake. Editing and compositing are pretty independent things.

The place I used to work (a TV station) used After Effects for graphics and compositing. Occasionally people used Motion, but it was mostly After Effects. And they did all editing with FCP. And even though they owned Shake, they have only used it on one or two shows ever.

On the other hand, the place I now work uses Avid to edit. We online at a facility that only uses Avid (no FCP at all!) and they do lots of work with Shake.

 

[jelloshotsrule]

I meant adding things such as animating a cave troll, setting rocks on fire, add light to light sabers, etc.
Basically generating new footage on top of things (eg with a particle generator)

ahh ok, gotcha.

well the cave troll would definitely be a 3D element, rendered out in frames and brought into shake. the background could be live footage, or within the 3D scene itself. either way, the troll would most likely be separate layers from the background.

from what i can tell, shake doesn't do particle generation. so the rocks on fire would probably be in 3D or with something like motion or combustion (or higher end of course) with particle generation. there are also standalone particle generation apps.

the light on the light saber, i'd think, would be a shake thing as well. i'm actually not familiar with shake itself, just with compositing in general... but i'd guess shake could do the saber effects.

 

[maximile]

The reqs for Shake include a display res of 1280 by 1024 - whilst the non-17" MBPs only sport a 1440 by 900 display.

Does this mean Shake won't run on a 15" MBP?

I've just installed the trial on my 15" MBP. As far as I can tell, it works fine. No missing bits of interface or anything.

 

[Macnoviz]

I've just installed the trial on my 15" MBP. As far as I can tell, it works fine. No missing bits of interface or anything.

isn't that like saying you need 128 MB VRam for 1080i HD playback? I tested it on my Macbook with 1 GB Ram, but 64 MB integrated graphics, and it didn't sputter once, (not even a moo or whine, although it did do that on other occasions)

I think it's just as a precaution that there won't be any complaints that someone can't edit his HD footage as he wants it, or something.

P.S. Has a trial version always been available for Shake?

 

[Gil Bates]

$2,999 to $499. Why don't they do the same with their hardware?

-Phil

I started believe in the 50 cents Mac rumor ...

 

[Dmitry Kichenko]

Bloody hell, they're stopping the development... Not that they developed Shake much since v.2.5, but... This is really sad.

They buy Nothing Real, and slowly choke it to death.

A great software with infinite potential - is stopped from development. Another book on the shelf alongside Commotion.

*sigh*

F..cking corporations.

 

[Dmitry Kichenko]

P.S. Has a trial version always been available for Shake?

No, never. You had to really beg Apple and give a few sexual favours to their staff to get a demo version in the past.

And no, shake has no particles or such. It only has a parody of 3D layer functionality present in Fusion. Shake is almost a purely 2D app, and a great one too. Very very sad that they're stopping it from developing. I've been using Shake for a few years now.

Fusion looks like a promising replacement, but it's for Windows only. ugh.

 

[Dmitry Kichenko]

So the 2008 date is nothing but a rumor? Interesting!

My concern is that apple shouldn’t be leaving gaps in their product line by killing a product or having to large time gap between big revisions, I admit I don’t really know much about the entire production arena but I can see where shake fits in and how apple shouldn’t leave FCP and motion out in the cold by killing a product like shake, they brought Shake, sold it, they cant kill it now.

I would be happy to think that it's a rumour, but I'm afraid to admit to myself that it is not. There has been so little development of Shake in the past years that it all looks like it's going in the pooper.

So far, the only "truly" Pro apps Apple has offered were Logic and Shake, both acquired from other companies (ah, the mourning of the PC users over the Emagic's acquisition.. the tears are still wetting the carpets from time to time). FCP is arguably a prosumer application, on the edge between prosumer and pro. Shake is purely "high-end", and I can imagine it didn't get an astounding number of sales (why would it, it's not like housewives create composites while pizza is cooking in the oven), and they decided to cut down on it.

In either case, $500 is Way too low for a professional application. It's like selling Lamborghini's for the price of a Civic - no matter what they make it look like, it's still awfully suspicious.

 

[Macnoviz]

I would be happy to think that it's a rumour, but I'm afraid to admit to myself that it is not. There has been so little development of Shake in the past years that it all looks like it's going in the pooper.

So far, the only "truly" Pro apps Apple has offered were Logic and Shake, both acquired from other companies (ah, the mourning of the PC users over the Emagic's acquisition.. the tears are still wetting the carpets from time to time). FCP is arguably a prosumer application, on the edge between prosumer and pro. Shake is purely "high-end", and I can imagine it didn't get an astounding number of sales (why would it, it's not like housewives create composites while pizza is cooking in the oven), and they decided to cut down on it.

In either case, $500 is Way too low for a professional application. It's like selling Lamborghini's for the price of a Civic - no matter what they make it look like, it's still awfully suspicious.

You're right, 500 is too low for a pro, but too high for an amateur who just wants to add some cool effects to his movie he's uploading on Youtube (yes, that kind of amateur, not the kind that makes short movies with a 10 000 dollar camera and gets broadcasted on cultural channels, and such)

(P.S. no offense to the first kind of amateurs, I consider myself to be one of those)

 

[Dmitry Kichenko]

You're right, 500 is too low for a pro, but too high for an amateur who just wants to add some cool effects to his movie he's uploading on Youtube (yes, that kind of amateur, not the kind that makes short movies with a 10 000 dollar camera and gets broadcasted on cultural channels, and such)

(P.S. no offense to the first kind of amateurs, I consider myself to be one of those)

I disagree. Prior to the price drop, After Effects was the most affordable compositing application popular among 'amateurs'. It is also popular among the motion graphic designers, but that's a whole other story.

Shake, on the other hand, is a completely different sort of animal. If you have ever tried both apps, you will know. A roughly similar comparison would be 3ds max and Maya. Both are 3D packages, but for the slightly different audiences. 3ds max isn't optimized for huge productions, or a flexible workflow. It is, however, often used among, for instance, designers who don't require a huge deal of flexibility or super-optimized renders.

Put it this way. Shake is a feature film. After FX is the commercials.

Now, Shake is also not exactly, or at least used to not be, for the 'amateur guy who wants to add a few cool FX'. While I find Shake much more intuitive than After FX in terms of the GUI, it is far less user friendly, and requires background in compositing, digital image and computer hardware theory in order to fully understand what you are doing. Shake is much more like Linux, with After FX being Windows. After FX is pretty, but you can't do much with it outside of what is offered by Adobe. Shake, on the other hand, is the sort of 'open hood' software where you can change things around like you want to, and manipulate data the way you please. $500 is not a price that a home user can pay for that sort of functionality, and it's definetely not the sort of price a company, that wants to further develop such an advanced application, asks for.

 

[P. Sheffield]

Very few people that use FCP also use Shake. Editing and compositing are pretty independent things.

The place I used to work (a TV station) used After Effects for graphics and compositing. Occasionally people used Motion, but it was mostly After Effects. And they did all editing with FCP. And even though they owned Shake, they have only used it on one or two shows ever.

On the other hand, the place I now work uses Avid to edit. We online at a facility that only uses Avid (no FCP at all!) and they do lots of work with Shake.

Sorry, but I use FCP and Shake all the time. Especially after v5 of FCP where Apple put in a decent integration. AE? Never touched it.

Patrick

 

[P. Sheffield]

So far, the only "truly" Pro apps Apple has offered were Logic and Shake, both acquired from other companies (ah, the mourning of the PC users over the Emagic's acquisition.. the tears are still wetting the carpets from time to time). FCP is arguably a prosumer application, on the edge between prosumer and pro. Shake is purely "high-end", and I can imagine it didn't get an astounding number of sales (why would it, it's not like housewives create composites while pizza is cooking in the oven), and they decided to cut down on it.

I would respectfully submit that you are way wrong here. I would consider the entire Final Cut Studio "Pro" applications. I used Avid for 10 years. Dumped it in favor of FCP 3 years ago and haven't looked back. There are more and more high end edit houses in Los Angeles dropping Avid and adding Final Cut Pro and Motion, etc.

I don't know what criteria you use to judge "Pro" apps, but by every measure I can think of, Apple's offerings certainly qualify.

Patrick

 

[Scottgfx]

I disagree. Prior to the price drop, After Effects was the most affordable compositing application popular among 'amateurs'. It is also popular among the motion graphic designers, but that's a whole other story.

Affordable is a relative term. After Effects at one time had a price point of around $4,000. That is back in the time when I "composited" with video tape decks and a Grass Valley "production switcher". I'm seriously thinking about getting Shake just to see what I've been missing.

 

[ezekielrage_99]

You're right, 500 is too low for a pro, but too high for an amateur who just wants to add some cool effects to his movie he's uploading on Youtube (yes, that kind of amateur, not the kind that makes short movies with a 10 000 dollar camera and gets broadcasted on cultural channels, and such)

(P.S. no offense to the first kind of amateurs, I consider myself to be one of those)

I agree however this move is going to get a lot of new people interest in Apple Pro Applications. Seriously who wouldn't try to get a Pro application for less than $500? I know plenty of producers and old university friends who are rumbing their hands together in anticipation for this application at $500.

 

[ejl10]

So show of hands... who bought Shake last week?

 

[Mac Kiwi]

Cant wait to get my hands on a copy.


I still remember when the 3D pricing wars started and Maya Unlimited went from $16,000 to $7000 a seat overnight.

 

[Dmitry Kichenko]

I don't know what criteria you use to judge "Pro" apps, but by every measure I can think of, Apple's offerings certainly qualify.

I was about to add that all comparisons are relative, but you beat me to it .

Seriously who wouldn't try to get a Pro application for less than $500?

The price is so low it's scary. And think of all the people who wasted over two thousand bucks for Shake 4, and now 4.1 costs a quarter of that sum.

 

[bogen]

Shake will continue to be a great comp package for a long time.

There are still people useing cineon for comp and matador for paint. Matador is so old it doesn't have a undo you can only load 5 frames(2k) at a time. So you can see that just because apple is stoping shake and starting "insert name here" comp package doesn't mean that shake is not useable, shake is great

I for one am very excited. I can continue to use shake for a couple more years and I hope that apple does a new shake but rewriten with more modern frameworks. Remember shake was a commandline app no gui when it was first built. Writen for Irix to run on SGI's.

Apple also has code from various other comp packages that they bought up when they bought shake. I'm thinking they where and still are having trouble putting those features into shake but now with a new start maybe they can.


my 2 cents

have a good one

 

[Dmitry Kichenko]

I hope they do come up with something at least as good as Shake... Because, right now Fusion is for Win only .