Should I get 16gb memory?

[StoneJack]

I think that selling and flipping used Macs is a viable option; there is probably quite a business around it, same to flipping old apartments and rebuilding cars. It is a legit business and I respect those who can do it; I just think that majority is not able or doesn't have skills or resources to do that, so buying and then selling a mac in few years is a most what they can do.

As probably that is the majority, the advice is that now one should be probably going with a configuration, that is slightly higher than the base one. Surely ROI on the configuration is low (50 dollars out of 200); however, that is not the main point as the above base configuration will be useful for the longer period of time and will meet probably increasing OS and apps requirements in next few years.

I think that used Macs selling well was a temporary phenomenon related to the slow progress of Intel in the last decade and the fact that newer generations did not present a clear value compared to previous generations, however, with M1 chips Apple is known for very speedy progress ala A12, A13, A15, with almost annual upgrade cycle; so my take is that Apple in notebooks also will move to very aggressive chip and processor update schedule, maybe on 18 month cycle.

The implications of the more aggressive upgrade cycle is that at each period, there will be new devices of the previous generation available, which will compete with older macs; unless your old mac is competitive enough, you can't expect to sell it at good price when a similar and new device from previous generation available from Apple directly; so that's why I'd recommend a higher specced device at moment of purchase, as the depreciation will accelerate in Mac world, imho.

 

[capathy21]

Dunno, I’ve flipped 10-15 Macs over the past 20 years and never had a problem selling any of them. I boxed up two old iPads literally this morning and sent them off to eBay buyers (a new iPad Pro is en route to me tomorrow).

And I’ve always lost my ass on resale when it comes to system upgrades. If I spent $200 on storage, I’m lucky to get $50 back on it three years later.

Couldn't agree more. I've always gone with base models and flipped them every year or two. If you also purchase the new one second hand, you rarely lose any money. It is very easy to grab a lightly used base model M1 Air right now for $600-$700 bucks. 18 months ago, I sold my 2016 MacBook Pro base model for $550 and picked up a 2019 Air for $600. I literally upgraded my machine for $50 bucks. I have done that many times. With ebay, Swappa, FB Marketplace, etc, the process is simple. I prefer to have newer machines more often. Newer batteries, internals, etc. I am not saying there is anything wrong with buying a maxed out machine and using it for many years. To each their own. But for me, I save a ton of money upgrading frequently.

 

[rocketpig]

I think that selling and flipping used Macs is a viable option; there is probably quite a business around it, same to flipping old apartments and rebuilding cars. It is a legit business and I respect those who can do it; I just think that majority is not able or doesn't have skills or resources to do that, so buying and then selling a mac in few years is a most what they can do.

As probably that is the majority, the advice is that now one should be probably going with a configuration, that is slightly higher than the base one. Surely ROI on the configuration is low (50 dollars out of 200); however, that is not the main point as the above base configuration will be useful for the longer period of time and will meet probably increasing OS and apps requirements in next few years.

I think that used Macs selling well was a temporary phenomenon related to the slow progress of Intel in the last decade and the fact that newer generations did not present a clear value compared to previous generations, however, with M1 chips Apple is known for very speedy progress ala A12, A13, A15, with almost annual upgrade cycle; so my take is that Apple in notebooks also will move to very aggressive chip and processor update schedule, maybe on 18 month cycle.

The implications of the more aggressive upgrade cycle is that at each period, there will be new devices of the previous generation available, which will compete with older macs; unless your old mac is competitive enough, you can't expect to sell it at good price when a similar and new device from previous generation available from Apple directly; so that's why I'd recommend a higher specced device at moment of purchase, as the depreciation will accelerate in Mac world, imho.

You're missing my point. To spec out that Air in 2012, it probably retailed for ~$1800 with additional memory, storage, and processor.

One could have purchased the base Air for $1,000 then flipped it in 4-ish years, sold it for $200, and then spent $1,000 for a brand new 2016 base model Air.

Total expenditure? $1,800 or exactly what that 2012 specced out Air would have cost in the first place, except now one has a brand new 2016 machine.

Flipping base model machines is not throwing money away; quite the opposite, actually, all it takes is spending 30 minutes setting up an eBay auction and then shipping your old machine (which you make seem as if it's some Herculean feat which it definitely is not).

 

[rocketpig]

Couldn't agree more. I've always gone with base models and flipped them every year or two. If you also purchase the new one second hand, you rarely lose any money. It is very easy to grab a lightly used base model M1 Air right now for $600-$700 bucks. 18 months ago, I sold my 2016 MacBook Pro base model for $550 and picked up a 2019 Air for $600. I literally upgraded my machine for $50 bucks. I have done that many times. With ebay, Swappa, FB Marketplace, etc, the process is simple. I prefer to have newer machines more often. Newer batteries, internals, etc. I am not saying there is anything wrong with buying a maxed out machine and using it for many years. To each their own. But for me, I save a ton of money upgrading frequently.

Absolutely. If people want to keep their machines forever, more power to them.

I merely disagreed with recommending this course of action as the "smart move". I do the opposite and not only is it pretty cost-effective, I have a new machine every few years that comes with faster internals and a good battery.

 

[capathy21]

Absolutely. If people want to keep their machines forever, more power to them.

I merely disagreed with recommending this course of action as the "smart move". I do the opposite and not only is it pretty cost-effective, I have a new machine every few years that comes with faster internals and a good battery.

Agree. Apple is worth 2 trillion because consumers buy more internals than they need “just in case.”

 

[StoneJack]

You're missing my point. To spec out that Air in 2012, it probably retailed for ~$1800 with additional memory, storage, and processor.

One could have purchased the base Air for $1,000 then flipped it in 4-ish years, sold it for $200, and then spent $1,000 for a brand new 2016 base model Air.

Total expenditure? $1,800 or exactly what that 2012 specced out Air would have cost in the first place, except now one has a brand new 2016 machine.

Flipping base model machines is not throwing money away; quite the opposite, actually, all it takes is spending 30 minutes setting up an eBay auction and then shipping your old machine (which you make seem as if it's some Herculean feat which it definitely is not).

You are not taking into estimation the productivity increase with the additional features of the non-base model. In your case, you assume that base and non-base models have similar productivity, and, therefore, selling both for reduced value, you assume getting more return from a base model. What I mean that is that non-base model actually could be more productive than a base model, and therefore, justify additional investment (maybe in shorter time), so selling it actually doesn't mean losing that much money.

 

[yitwail]

Agree. Apple is worth 2 trillion because consumers buy more internals than they need “just in case.”

That's not to say nobody ever needs more internals than the base. I have a 16gb/1tb MBA, and while I could have made do with 512gb, the 16gb ram I absolutely require, given the number of open apps and browser tabs I have in my workflow, and even if I didn't, I like working away from the desk so I want to maximize battery life, and having the machine frequently swapping apps in & out of memory can't be good for the battery.

I also went with 1tb because I intend to keep the machine for a long time, and this way the SSD will never approach 80% of capacity, where SSD performance might begin to degrade. Also, the 1tb might be slightly faster than 512gb, though probably not noticeably. Finally, while keeping a computer for a longer time lowers its trade-in value, when you do trade it in, you'll be upgrading to a newer and hopefully improved computer. For example, I went from an early 2015 MBP to a 2020 M1 MBA so avoided the butterfly keyboard I might have been stuck with if I flipped the MBP earlier.

 

[rocketpig]

You are not taking into estimation the productivity increase with the additional features of the non-base model. In your case, you assume that base and non-base models have similar productivity, and, therefore, selling both for reduced value, you assume getting more return from a base model. What I mean that is that non-base model actually could be more productive than a base model, and therefore, justify additional investment (maybe in shorter time), so selling it actually doesn't mean losing that much money.

I'm not assuming that at all. In my first post, I basically said "if you need the hardware, buy the hardware". My response was about "future-proofing" and "buying all you can afford", not buying what you literally need to do the job. I just bought a 12.9" iPad Pro because that's both what I want and what improves my ability to do the necessary job. I *could* have bought an Air and mostly gotten away with cheaper/inferior hardware but the Pro will do it better and faster so I went with the Pro. My point isn't to avoid higher-end hardware, my point is that someone shouldn't buy higher-end hardware when lower-end hardware will do the job just fine through the life of the machine.

 

[capathy21]

That's not to say nobody ever needs more internals than the base. I have a 16gb/1tb MBA, and while I could have made do with 512gb, the 16gb ram I absolutely require, given the number of open apps and browser tabs I have in my workflow, and even if I didn't, I like working away from the desk so I want to maximize battery life, and having the machine frequently swapping apps in & out of memory can't be good for the battery.

I also went with 1tb because I intend to keep the machine for a long time, and this way the SSD will never approach 80% of capacity, where SSD performance might begin to degrade. Also, the 1tb might be slightly faster than 512gb, though probably not noticeably. Finally, while keeping a computer for a longer time lowers its trade-in value, when you do trade it in, you'll be upgrading to a newer and hopefully improved computer. For example, I went from an early 2015 MBP to a 2020 M1 MBA so avoided the butterfly keyboard I might have been stuck with if I flipped the MBP earlier.

Oh I'm not saying not to buy upgraded models if it's what a user needs. But many times I see recommendations for basic users to buy upgraded or maxed out models when in reality, the majority of users are fine with a base model.

 

[Biro]

The OP has gone with 16gb - which is fine. But I remind everyone else of the old saying: If you're not sure whether you need 16gb of RAM, then you probably don't.

 

[EugW]

Right.. Upgrades are a premium to be sure, but depending on current or future use case, IMO go up if you can afford it. I've stopped at Catalina as I was afraid Big Sur then Monterey would slow mine down.. I would have gotten a 2017 with 16gb if I coulda found one.. Anything newer than 2017 I didn't want due to butterfly keyboard issues and SSD soldered on. Now that you can get a 2 or I think 4 TB M1 and they've gotten rid of butterfly keyboard, I think a new one is now worth it.

If you're talking about your 2015 1.6 GHz MacBook Air with 8 GB RAM: I don't have one, but I have a 2017 1.8 GHz MacBook Air with 8 GB RAM, and it runs great in Monterey. The 1.8 is less than 10% faster than the 1.6.

Oh I'm not saying not to buy upgraded models if it's what a user needs. But many times I see recommendations for basic users to buy upgraded or maxed out models when in reality, the majority of users are fine with a base model.

I bought a 16 GB 12" MacBook knowing I usually only needed 8 but planned on keeping it 5+ years, and in my experience, my RAM usage usually increased by about 40-50% every 5 years or so. Well, the 16 did come in handy at times, but in now I only need 8 GB.

It turns out the only time I needed more than 8 GB was when I was trying to create presentations away from home on business trips, the night before the actual presentations. 8 GB would have worked but would have slowed me down, which adds to the panic mode when you're trying to do things last minute. However, now I work from home and don't travel for work, so 16 GB is overkill, esp. since I have a 24 GB iMac at home. In fact, these days, I rarely even use a laptop. Like I said, I don't travel for work anymore, and for leisure trips I often just take my iPad Pro with keyboard.

Basically while my RAM usage rule of thumb is often true, I changed jobs, which totally changed my usage pattern.

Anyhow, I just purchased two Mac laptops as gifts, and I didn't bother with 16 GB for either of them. Also, I just bought a Mac mini for myself as my home office work machine, and I didn't get 16 GB for that either. I already have my 24 GB iMac for heavier projects as mentioned, but 98% of the work stuff I do at home isn't RAM intensive.

 

[Bodhitree]

Interesting discussion on people’s buying strategies for macs. It pays seemingly to keep in mind what you do and don’t need.

 

[glhiii]

I got an MBA M1 with 8gb RAM and 512gb SSD. Even though I don't use it for things that require a lot of power like video editing, I find myself often frustrated with it -- it keeps slowing down. I have a 2019 MacBook Pro 16" with 16gb of RAM and it never slows down with the work I do. My advice: get 16 gb.

 

[dizmonk]

I tried both 8gb and 16 gb versions and generally find the 16gb much more workable.

 

[sierrablue]

I think it makes sense that if you don't need any more computing power than the base and you can get the base model for $750-$799 on sale go with that and trade it in when the next years' model comes in. That's what I did.

 

[AudiHeel]

Here's a video comparing MBA 8GB to MBP 16GB .. says 8GB is almost always enough.

 

[StoneJack]

To be honest, one can survive with 4GB of RAM as well; thats' not the point.

the question is do you want faster computer with 16GB or you are willing to save some money and get potentially slower machine with less RAM. if you priority is budget, 8GB is enough, if you want to have faster speed and budget limitations are not that important, 16 is better. So ultimately it is up to the particular user's needs and budget, there is not a single condition for everyone.

Think of it as a car; say you have to choose between 2.7liter or 4 liter gasoline engines for your SUV (just for comparison), larger engine is faster and more powerful but 2.7 will do the job as well. I chose 2.7 liter for my SUV and is generally happy; but if money is not a problem, get 4 liter engine, it is up to you and your budget. Both engines will get from point A to point B.

 

[AudiHeel]

Nice analogy, but probably more like a 2.7 liter or 3 liter, and the 20% increase in price for the 3 liter only nets you a 10% gain in top speed, with 0-60 being equal.

 

[rocketpig]

To be honest, one can survive with 4GB of RAM as well; thats' not the point.

the question is do you want faster computer with 16GB or you are willing to save some money and get potentially slower machine with less RAM. if you priority is budget, 8GB is enough, if you want to have faster speed and budget limitations are not that important, 16 is better. So ultimately it is up to the particular user's needs and budget, there is not a single condition for everyone.

And my point is that if you don't need 16gb, it's not actually faster and you're throwing money at a problem that first doesn't exist, and second has a horrible ROI. Instead of doing that, why not flip the machine one year earlier and spend the same amount of money overall?

Extra memory is only useful if one needs that memory to accomplish the tasks they wish to accomplish. In actuality, additional unused memory actually *slows down* a machine by a very small amount, as the machine needs to randomly search memory to find what it needs. The more memory to search, the longer it takes. In reality, this is unnoticeable but it's still technically slowing down the machine.

For example, right this second I have Mail, Chrome (6-7 tabs), Numbers, and Sublime Text open on my 8gb Air. I'm using 6gb of memory. Buying 16gb of memory for this machine would do absolutely nothing to improve its performance 95% of the time, as it's a light-use machine.

 

[sierrablue]

Today, I opened up almost all my apps on my new M1 8g. Plus, I opened Chrome 20 times and Safari ten times. I had You Tube TV playing in two separate windows, Youtube playing in another window and Apple Music playing in another. I reached a total of about 7.01G of ram used and never got into the red. It still felt responsive and quick. I am actually amazed at that being a life long Windows user coming from owning an aging PC that was six years old. I guess I am a light user when it comes to Macbooks.

 

[StoneJack]

And my point is that if you don't need 16gb, it's not actually faster and you're throwing money at a problem that first doesn't exist, and second has a horrible ROI. Instead of doing that, why not flip the machine one year earlier and spend the same amount of money overall?

Extra memory is only useful if one needs that memory to accomplish the tasks they wish to accomplish. In actuality, additional unused memory actually *slows down* a machine by a very small amount, as the machine needs to randomly search memory to find what it needs. The more memory to search, the longer it takes. In reality, this is unnoticeable but it's still technically slowing down the machine.

For example, right this second I have Mail, Chrome (6-7 tabs), Numbers, and Sublime Text open on my 8gb Air. I'm using 6gb of memory. Buying 16gb of memory for this machine would do absolutely nothing to improve its performance 95% of the time, as it's a light-use machine.

your personal case is not universal; as i said user needs and requirements may vary so do their budgets, so going with 16GB is absolutely fine if someone wants to. I, for example, have Logic Pro and Final Cut Pro on the machine; more RAM is very essential for those apps. Yes, I can cut on 4GB of RAM; but if I can have 16GB, why not? It is ultimately my machine and only I decide how much RAM is sufficient for me. Don't tell me how much RAM I should have, I know myself my needs better.

 

[EugW]

I don't understand why people are so adamant 8 GB is sufficient, based on personal anecdotes for use cases that may not apply, and on a few YouTube videos. I can also point people to YouTube videos where just running music software has led to unexpected crashes and various other issues on 8 GB M1 machines that disappeared simply by moving to 16 GB.

It's not as if going to 16 GB RAM is actually that expensive, and furthermore, even if you don't need it now a full 16 GB now, if you're the type that keeps a computer for a long time and it's a primary machine, with a use case that may grow over time, then going to 16 GB can actually make a lot of sense. Furthermore, macOS loves to cache applications, and it can most definitely make use of the extra RAM even if it doesn't actually need it. Like I said above, we own several 8 GB Macs, including ones purchased recently, but I think some people are pushing 8 GB just a little bit too hard.

And in the case of this thread, it's moot anyway, since the OP has already decided to upgrade to 16 GB.

BTW, I personally really, really dislike selling old machines. I have done it many times, which is why I dislike it. It's irritating, because there are lot of idiots out there. I'm happy people do sell these machines, because I sometimes buy used gear, but I find selling a turnoff. I do sell my used iPhones through Orchard though. It provides cash and more of it than Apple trade-ins, but it's completely painless.

 

[rocketpig]

your personal case is not universal; as i said user needs and requirements may vary so do their budgets, so going with 16GB is absolutely fine if someone wants to. I, for example, have Logic Pro and Final Cut Pro on the machine; more RAM is very essential for those apps. Yes, I can cut on 4GB of RAM; but if I can have 16GB, why not? It is ultimately my machine and only I decide how much RAM is sufficient for me. Don't tell me how much RAM I should have, I know myself my needs better.

The first sentence of the post you quoted included “if you don’t need 16gb”, which implies that some people need it. In that case, have at it, but the memory you need.

The only reason I responded to this topic at all was to push back on someone saying “buy all the upgrades you can afford”, which I feel is really bad advice. I say “buy the upgrades you need” and flip the device earlier for a newer model. The total cost is similar and you get new devices more often.

 

[sierrablue]

I don't understand why people are so adamant 8 GB is sufficient, based on personal anecdotes for use cases that may not apply, and on a few YouTube videos. I can also point people to YouTube videos where just running music software has led to unexpected crashes and various other issues on 8 GB M1 machines that disappeared simply by moving to 16 GB.

I am not adamant. I seriously don't know what I need yet as this is my first MacBook but for my use so far no issues with 8G. I bought the laptop on sale for $799. In order to get 16G, it would be at least $1199. If it doesn't work out for me, I plan to trade it in and get the new M2 or whatever comes out and then decide how much ram I truly need. I am sure I will still be able to get $500 for the trade in. That works for me.

 

[StoneJack]

8gb is fine and 16 is fine too