Should I get 2015 MBP?

[meteoreos]

I went from a 15" 2016 to the 2015 MBP.

- I didn't really have a problem with the keyboard or large track pad, in fact I liked it quite a bit. But I probably enjoy the 2015 model's more if I'm being honest.

- Never had a problem with the battery life either with the 2016. Incidentally, I was worried when my 2015 had poor battery life, but a reinstall of Sierra has fixed it. I found that the newer Skylake processors were excellent for watching videos on YouTube (1080p) without draining the battery too much.

- The speakers on the 2016 MBP are ridiculous, they sound so good. As for the screen, yes it's superior, but I didn't find any major differences really. They both look good.

- The 2016 is slightly smaller and lighter, but again, it's not that noticeable for me.

So to conclude, yes the 2016 MBP is better, but not enough to justify the price for me, especially in the UK where it costs around £2500 (thanks Brexit!) for the 512GB model. I couldn't wait for the Kaby Lake revision as I have university, so I went with the 2015. So if you can wait, I'd definitely do that as the rev2 will probably iron out any issues with the Skylake MBP.

 

[Sanpete]

Of your list:
Screen: Marginally better. Barely noticable
SSD speed: Yes, but in real world use, again - hardly noticable.
Size/weight: Again minimal differences that wont likelymake any advantage in everyday use
Heat: Wasnt a problem in the 2015 model, so who cares
Speakers: Personally dont rely on them for anything other than to actually hear content. If you want to do any kind of serious audio work, or even serious movie watching on the laptop, you'll use headphones anyway.
Quietness: Not an issue with the 2015 models so the 'improvement' is all but irrelvent.

So to sum up, all the 'advantages' you list of the 2016 model are all so slight to be virtually irrelvent in real world use.
But if it makes you feel better about throwing that extra $800 at Apple, good for you.

First, you didn't bother to address "all" the advantages I mentioned. Second, even if what you said were true (I'll get to that), it still wouldn't mean the 2016 isn't better. Third, some of what you said clearly isn't true. The brighter screen is very noticeable. The better contrast is too. The colors aren't so noticeable in general, but will matter to those editing video who want to see the entire color space they're editing in. And they do look better when you watch video in fuller color. Of course the speakers aren't for serious audio work, but they are still much better.

Assuming you're talking about the 13", you could be right about the heat and noise not mattering so much. It certainly does matter for the 15".

Again, this isn't to say anyone should prefer the 2016, since there are some subjective factors that matter--and a price difference too--only that there are enough clear improvements that it makes sense to call it the best ever.

 

[robeddie]

First, you didn't bother to address "all" the advantages I mentioned. Second, even if what you said were true (I'll get to that), it still wouldn't mean the 2016 isn't better. Third, some of what you said clearly isn't true. The brighter screen is very noticeable. The better contrast is too. The colors aren't so noticeable in general, but will matter to those editing video who want to see the entire color space they're editing in. And they do look better when you watch video in fuller color. Of course the speakers aren't for serious audio work, but they are still much better.

Assuming you're talking about the 13", you could be right about the heat and noise not mattering so much. It certainly does matter for the 15".

Again, this isn't to say anyone should prefer the 2016, since there are some subjective factors that matter--and a price difference too--only that there are enough clear improvements that it makes sense to call it the best ever.

Really what I was trying to get at was the question of what notable, tangible difference the 2016 model makes in your life that wouldn't have been completely satisfied by the 2015. I'm a video editor, and even with the improvement of the screen on the 2016 model, it still wouldn't be something I would 100% count on as my reference monitor, so in that specific scenario, I'd still have to check the final output on a studio reference monitor - so again - no tangible, real-world difference.

Same with everything else you mentioned: How is it actually changing/improving your workflow?

You can site all the fine testing that shows the 2016 model is a little better at this or that, but again, how is that really making a difference to how you work with your laptop? The fact is, you don't have an answer, because there isn't one. You're geeked out about the 2016 model because it has some minor statistical 'bragging rights' over the previous models, but in real life, doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

Get back to me in 2 or 3 more generations of macbook pro's, and you might have a better case to make that buying a 2015 model, with the huge price savings, isn't a pretty good idea

 

[dsnio]

15" model; sure get the 2015 with graphics card. 13"? Not that big a difference I think. And what's wrong with the new trackpad?

Just FAYI there is no graphic card in 2015 15" officially sold. Yeah, you may be able to get a Apple refurbished with a newer battery or something in USA even for which Apple's providing warranty. That's not the case in 95% of the place where Mac is sold. Still the MBP 2015 15" falls in the same price range OP wants and provides a bit more powerful experience.

 

[smirking]

I do not like the keybord but using the new keybord, it sets a new standard for "worst keybord ever".

A lot of people love the new keyboard. I hated that keyboard too until I started using it. Now I like it a lot. There are some things I would change about it, but the feel is really good once I got used to it. It only took an hour to get adjusted for me.

A long time ago we had Firewire...
Then we had Displayport...
Then we had Thunderbolt...
I guess this predicts the future of the USB-C Thunderbolt.

USB-C is not equivalent. It very well COULD go the way of those other standards, but so far it doesn't appear like that's the case. I know some people who are in the business of supplying parts to electronics manufacturers and they can't keep their USB-C related supplies in stock. They are shipping as fast as they can stock them.

Apple is not alone in pushing this new standard. That's the biggest difference and USB-C is much more than just a way to hook up a peripheral or transfer data. It's both and it supplies power and it's compact to fit today's smaller and smaller devices.

 

[ge.caroline]

I went from a 15" 2016 to the 2015 MBP.

- I didn't really have a problem with the keyboard or large track pad, in fact I liked it quite a bit. But I probably enjoy the 2015 model's more if I'm being honest.

- Never had a problem with the battery life either with the 2016. Incidentally, I was worried when my 2015 had poor battery life, but a reinstall of Sierra has fixed it. I found that the newer Skylake processors were excellent for watching videos on YouTube (1080p) without draining the battery too much.

- The speakers on the 2016 MBP are ridiculous, they sound so good. As for the screen, yes it's superior, but I didn't find any major differences really. They both look good.

- The 2016 is slightly smaller and lighter, but again, it's not that noticeable for me.

So to conclude, yes the 2016 MBP is better, but not enough to justify the price for me, especially in the UK where it costs around £2500 (thanks Brexit!) for the 512GB model. I couldn't wait for the Kaby Lake revision as I have university, so I went with the 2015. So if you can wait, I'd definitely do that as the rev2 will probably iron out any issues with the Skylake MBP.

That's interesting,

1. Did you buy 2015 15" as new?
2. So you went from a dGPU model to iGPU model?
3. Isn't the GPU performance difference justifiable for the price difference for 2016?
4. What's the battery life for you anyway with 2015? It makes sense only based on your preferred brightness level and usage load.

 

[Sanpete]

Get back to me in 2 or 3 more generations of macbook pro's, and you might have a better case to make that buying a 2015 model, with the huge price savings, isn't a pretty good idea

Again, not my point. My primary point remains that, contrary to what you suggested above, it makes perfect sense to call the new MBP the best ever. Again, that doesn't mean anyone shouldn't prefer the 2015 for reasons particular to them.

As to its impact on pro use (which is what you seem to be focused on), it doesn't follow from the fact that the monitor isn't a reference monitor that actually having the correct color space doesn't matter while you're editing with it. It's easier to judge how color will look and be affected by tweaks from the current display than the previous one. And, really, it's more inspiring to see the color in more glorious fulness!

And speaking of video editing, the 2016 15" smokes the 2015 with or without dGPU in speed where the dGPU is engaged, and does it without getting nearly as hot and loud, generally without the throttling that is real problem with the 2015 15s. That too affects work flow.

You've wisely dropped the point about why the port speed matters, but in case it isn't obvious, if your reference monitor is 5K, your 2015 13" won't cut it. Want to drive two 4Ks? No, that won't work either. The new 13" will do those things. The 15" will drive 2 5Ks, or 4 4Ks. The 2015 15" can drive one 4K or 5K (at 60 Hz). May not matter much to you now, but it will matter to a lot of people with newer monitors soon enough. Some are already taking advantage of it, and that can improve work flow.

Not a hill of beans.

 

[ZapNZs]

Get over it, by an external adapter. There's no room left on the logic board for such things

Or just get a USB-C to camera cable for $10 on Amazon and direct plug it in? YES, I KNOW IT'S NOT THE SAME as having an internal SD card slot. I'm sorry, I'm not an engineer. That's the best I can do. 2 outta 3 ain't bad tho, right?

I'm just giving you a hard time, friend.

 

[Mindinversion]

so was I. . . apparently not all the emoji from the touch bar translate on the forum... which I didn't notice until just now. It was meant to have something like

 

[Orr]

2015 MBP is a great machine. I got mine refurbished from Apple at significant savings, and use it as my desktop at home with a dual-monitor setup. It's far more computer than I need for my basic purposes, and I'm expecting it to easily last me 5+ years.

 

[rutrack]

Really what I was trying to get at was the question of what notable, tangible difference the 2016 model makes in your life that wouldn't have been completely satisfied by the 2015. I'm a video editor, and even with the improvement of the screen on the 2016 model, it still wouldn't be something I would 100% count on as my reference monitor, so in that specific scenario, I'd still have to check the final output on a studio reference monitor - so again - no tangible, real-world difference.

Same with everything else you mentioned: How is it actually changing/improving your workflow?

You can site all the fine testing that shows the 2016 model is a little better at this or that, but again, how is that really making a difference to how you work with your laptop? The fact is, you don't have an answer, because there isn't one. You're geeked out about the 2016 model because it has some minor statistical 'bragging rights' over the previous models, but in real life, doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

Get back to me in 2 or 3 more generations of macbook pro's, and you might have a better case to make that buying a 2015 model, with the huge price savings, isn't a pretty good idea

That is exactly the point, there is no way in which the new one improves your workflow, but there are so many ways in which it makes it worse as a compromise for looks and thinness. The design does not follow function anymore.

 

[idark77]

+1 for 2015 MBP

 

[robeddie]

Again, not my point. My primary point remains that, contrary to what you suggested above, it makes perfect sense to call the new MBP the best ever. Again, that doesn't mean anyone shouldn't prefer the 2015 for reasons particular to them.

As to its impact on pro use (which is what you seem to be focused on), it doesn't follow from the fact that the monitor isn't a reference monitor that actually having the correct color space doesn't matter while you're editing with it. It's easier to judge how color will look and be affected by tweaks from the current display than the previous one. And, really, it's more inspiring to see the color in more glorious fulness!

And speaking of video editing, the 2016 15" smokes the 2015 with or without dGPU in speed where the dGPU is engaged, and does it without getting nearly as hot and loud, generally without the throttling that is real problem with the 2015 15s. That too affects work flow.

You've wisely dropped the point about why the port speed matters, but in case it isn't obvious, if your reference monitor is 5K, your 2015 13" won't cut it. Want to drive two 4Ks? No, that won't work either. The new 13" will do those things. The 15" will drive 2 5Ks, or 4 4Ks. The 2015 15" can drive one 4K or 5K (at 60 Hz). May not matter much to you now, but it will matter to a lot of people with newer monitors soon enough. Some are already taking advantage of it, and that can improve work flow.

Not a hill of beans.

Haha. Doesn't 'smoke' the speed of the 2015 at all. This from Cult of Mac: Running a Novabench test shows that the increase in performance isn’t as great as most of us would like, though. On that test, the 2016 MacBook Pro barely squeaks out a win: It scores 727, versus the 2015 MacBook Pro’s 707. The main increase for the new MacBook comes in graphics performance: It manages 149fps on Novabench’s 3-D graphics test, compared to the 2015 model’s 95fps.

Secondly, I have a feeling you're pulling your heat argument out of whole cloth. Where exactly do you have evidence of side by side tests where the 2016, doing the same task, was so much cooler and faster?

Port speed. How are you taking advantage of all that extra speed exactly? If you are personally running a couple of 4k monitors, well then great. But it's a fraction of a percent of the buyers who are looking for that capability.

Again, I think you are focusing on a few theoretical capabilities, most of which are minor, rather than something YOU actually use it for.

 

[Mindinversion]

You know I've said this a few times, but there are a lot more ways to use TB3 than you're "few theoretical capabilities". Razer Core [admittedly not plug and play native, but still very easy to set up in OS X] External Drives running other O/S at almost native speeds......

Everyone seems to be *SO* up in arms that it takes an extra 5 seconds to plug in a dongle and then an SD card. . or they're *SO* offended that they have to spend an extra $24 on an adapter after spending X dollars on a machine...

As for performance, Apple has very little to do with that one. Intel has just flatlined on chip development, mostly due to lack of competition. Kaby lake won't be any better in terms of additional performance, and as we're stuck with 14nm for the next 2 cycles .. don't expect much.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Now understand, none of the above means that one machine is better than the other. If my father were buying a new Mac tomorrow I'd DEFINITELY push him towards a 2015. HE isn't going to use or probably even want features like touch bar support, advanced device support via TB3, or even the fingerprint sensor. I get that there are a lot of people like that out there, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with the 2015 machine.

That does not, however, mean that the 2016 model is not the better machine. If you use the capabilities it offers, i's a VERY transformative experience and a vastly superior machine. It's almost like they're two different machines made for two different audiences. They can both do all the same things, and while some things are slightly more lengthy on the 2016, it can do things the 2015 can't even dream of. Obviously, if you have no intention of ever doing any of those things, there's very little point in choosing that particular tool.

But it's nice to have the option down the road...

 

[rutrack]

You know I've said this a few times, but there are a lot more ways to use TB3 than you're "few theoretical capabilities". Razer Core [admittedly not plug and play native, but still very easy to set up in OS X] External Drives running other O/S at almost native speeds......

Everyone seems to be *SO* up in arms that it takes an extra 5 seconds to plug in a dongle and then an SD card. . or they're *SO* offended that they have to spend an extra $24 on an adapter after spending X dollars on a machine...

As for performance, Apple has very little to do with that one. Intel has just flatlined on chip development, mostly due to lack of competition. Kaby lake won't be any better in terms of additional performance, and as we're stuck with 14nm for the next 2 cycles .. don't expect much.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Now understand, none of the above means that one machine is better than the other. If my father were buying a new Mac tomorrow I'd DEFINITELY push him towards a 2015. HE isn't going to use or probably even want features like touch bar support, advanced device support via TB3, or even the fingerprint sensor. I get that there are a lot of people like that out there, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with the 2015 machine.

That does not, however, mean that the 2016 model is not the better machine. If you use the capabilities it offers, i's a VERY transformative experience and a vastly superior machine. It's almost like they're two different machines made for two different audiences. They can both do all the same things, and while some things are slightly more lengthy on the 2016, it can do things the 2015 can't even dream of. Obviously, if you have no intention of ever doing any of those things, there's very little point in choosing that particular tool.

But it's nice to have the option down the road...

I'm not sure why you keep mentioning your parents, but if by that you mean that they are somehow less demanding and perhaps elderly, then considering the real use cases what you should recommend to them is the new machine. It is lighter, so it would be easier to carry around the house, they probably don't need to type a lot and would benefit from emoji bar when chatting, you can plug the power cable in just about any hole that the laptop has and the trackpad is large enough to use at slow trackpad settings.

The 2015 will not suit them well, it has a lot of features that will only confuse them, like a usb port that people use on the go for usb keys, license keys and other things, sd card slot for permanent storage expansion, hdmi for occasional presentations, keyboard with a lot of keys that loads of programmers etc use.

Now understand, none of the above means that one machine is better than the other. If what you're after is getting your job done, the choice is pretty clear, however if you need to have a "vastly superior machine" on the specs or have a machine that's lighter to curry around, maybe go for the other one.

 

[Sanpete]

That is exactly the point, there is no way in which the new one improves your workflow, but there are so many ways in which it makes it worse as a compromise for looks and thinness. The design does not follow function anymore.

This is plainly false as explained above.

Haha. Doesn't 'smoke' the speed of the 2015 at all. [...] Secondly, I have a feeling you're pulling your heat argument out of whole cloth. Where exactly do you have evidence of side by side tests where the 2016, doing the same task, was so much cooler and faster?

Ha ha indeed. Not talking about some random general performance benchmark but actual video editing and other tasks that engage the dGPU, as I plainly said. This video covers both CPU and dGPU comparisons in both benchmarks and actual use. Not a close call for the latter. Start at 3:50, then after the transcoding part about heat and throttling, and the GPU benchmark, you can skip to 8:20 through about 13:00 if you want to see the video editing tests. The overall point is very plain, especially in FCPX, but even in Premiere, which doesn't take advantage of the MBP's advantages as well.

You can compare to this one if you want, 2:30 to 4:40:

Port speed. How are you taking advantage of all that extra speed exactly? If you are personally running a couple of 4k monitors, well then great. But it's a fraction of a percent of the buyers who are looking for that capability.

Again, as I plainly said, 4K and 5K monitors will become more and more common, and more and more will benefit from the clear advantage the new machines have over the old in that regard. Some do already.

No, these differences, including the one you completely skipped over about the proper color space, aren't theoretical. Your willingness to acknowledge facts is at this point still theoretical.

 

[Mindinversion]

I'm not sure why you keep mentioning your parents

Because they are a great example of the majority of people who do not know much about tech, and who are not really interested in learning or have a bad opinion of tech to begin with. They just want their stuff "to work" as quickly and thought free as possible.

And there are a LOT of people that use Mac JUST FOR THAT REASON, because Apple has made a semi-idiot proof machine. This includes a lot of people on these forums. That's not intended to be an insult, though I realize it reads that way, but if you look at the complaints of "it just doesn't work for me because it's missing X ports" or because "ZOMG Skylake sux Kaby lake da bomb"! You'll realize that people just don't want to have to deal with changing their workflow by adding adapters, etc. There's absolutely NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. Complain that there's not much difference between the 2015 and 2016 CPU performance? Fair argument. OS X is so well optimized, and intel's performance gains year over year are so lackluster there's a good case to be made for the 2015 model. Unless you have a USE for TB3, or are more progressive in your adoption of newer tech, why waste the additional money.

However, just because the 2015 model suits the majority absolutely fine, it does NOT mean that the 2016 model is a piece of junk. It's superior in ever way to the 2015 model and a very transformative machine. It's also a lot like the Apple Watch in that it's really a nice thing to have, and once you get used to it it's a huge convenience. . . but you're not going to miss a dang thing if you've never had one and have no use for the additional features it offers.

So as a more progressive tech literate user, OF COURSE I'm going to passionately defend the 2016 model. It is an absolutely AMAZING piece of kit! It can handle my workflow just fine, and it does things for me that the 2015 just would not do [eGPU-which gives me an entire dock with USB, Ethernet, etc] external SSD Windows, and a huge amount of room to grow as technology advances.

YMMV offer void where prohibited taxes title license and dock fees apply.

 

[robeddie]

This is plainly false as explained above.



Ha ha indeed. Not talking about some random general performance benchmark but actual video editing and other tasks that engage the dGPU, as I plainly said. This video covers both CPU and dGPU comparisons in both benchmarks and actual use. Not a close call for the latter. Start at 3:50, then after the transcoding part about heat and throttling, and the GPU benchmark, you can skip to 8:20 through about 13:00 if you want to see the video editing tests. The overall point is very plain, especially in FCPX, but even in Premiere, which doesn't take advantage of the MBP's advantages as well.

You can compare to this one if you want, 2:30 to 4:40:

Again, as I plainly said, 4K and 5K monitors will become more and more common, and more and more will benefit from the clear advantage the new machines have over the old in that regard. Some do already.

No, these differences, including the one you completely skipped over about the proper color space, aren't theoretical. Your willingness to acknowledge facts is at this point still theoretical.

We can go back and forth, but I dont have the energy for that. Bottom line, as you said, some people will find true value in the things that the 2016 mbp does better, but others will find the 2015 model not only better, but a hell of a lot less
expensive.

I have a feeling a decent minority of those who own the 2016 'love' it mostly because its the new latest gadget.
'Love' is a strong word. Often its used by those people infatuated with their new car, or phone or whatever the gadget is ... and that feeling is often simply the buzz from having somthing 'new' and 'differnt'.

Its an addiction in our society: The never ending lust for the 'latest and greatest', even if the real life benefits are minor or even non existent.

Just dont be that guy

 

[Sanpete]

We can go back and forth, but I dont have the energy for that. Bottom line, as you said, some people will find true value in the things that the 2016 mbp does better, but others will find the 2015 model not only better, but a hell of a lot less
expensive.

I have a feeling a decent minority of those who own the 2016 'love' it mostly because its the new latest gadget.
'Love' is a strong word. Often its used by those people infatuated with their new car, or phone or whatever the gadget is ... and that feeling is often simply the buzz from having somthing 'new' and 'differnt'.

Its an addiction in our society: The never ending lust for the 'latest and greatest', even if the real life benefits are minor or even non existent.

Just dont be that guy

I presented you with plain facts, not feelings. As I said, your willingness to acknowledge facts remains theoretical.

 

[robeddie]

I presented you with plain facts, not feelings. As I sad, your willingness to acknowledge facts remains theoretical.

I could ... but frankly I dont care that much.
Enjoy your new toy. Either way, we both like our macs. I just hope Apple keeps making them - since the writing on the wall suggests theyre trying to phase them out.

 

[Sanpete]

I just hope Apple keeps making them - since the writing on the wall suggests theyre trying to phase them out.

Again, you're well outside of what facts support. I know, you don't care that much.

 

[robeddie]

Again, you're well outside of what facts support. I know, you don't care that much.

Huh!!?!? This is pretty well documented. When most of the mac line is several years old, and even your preciouis macbook pro took a year and a half to update ... apple seems to be sending a pretty strong message: They don't really care that much.

 

[ge.caroline]

2015 MBP is a great machine. I got mine refurbished from Apple at significant savings, and use it as my desktop at home with a dual-monitor setup. It's far more computer than I need for my basic purposes, and I'm expecting it to easily last me 5+ years.

I agree, The Iris Pro version(no dGPU)?

 

[Sanpete]

Huh!!?!? This is pretty well documented. When most of the mac line is several years old, and even your preciouis macbook pro took a year and a half to update ... apple seems to be sending a pretty strong message: They don't really care that much.

View attachment 688317

No. The way a company gets out of a market is to stop making a product. Pretty simple, really.

 

[robeddie]

No. The way a company gets out of a market is to stop making a product. Pretty simple, really.

You wear me out. Are you somehow defending the way apple has mismanaged the mac line in the past couple of years?