All iPads Should the iPad become a Mac Replacement?

[bcortens]

Like all of this isn’t wishful thinking…Apple is happy with the iPad Pro limited and the Macbook Air not having a touchscreen or a pencil.

I meant wishful thinking in the sense that something with multiple modes like this introduces a whole host of UX problems that are not easily solved and which have had poor reception (Windows 8) or don't really get used by the average person (Samsung Dex or whatever its called). I think Stage Manager (iPad OS) and Mission Control (macOS) are already not intuitive enough, the idea that it would be easy to offer a transforming UI layer that incorporates both iPadOS and macOS in a single experience is what is wishful thinking.
The iPad Pros limits are easier to overcome than that by far.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I meant wishful thinking in the sense that something with multiple modes like this introduces a whole host of UX problems that are not easily solved and which have had poor reception (Windows 8) or don't really get used by the average person (Samsung Dex or whatever its called). I think Stage Manager (iPad OS) and Mission Control (macOS) are already not intuitive enough, the idea that it would be easy to offer a transforming UI layer that incorporates both iPadOS and macOS in a single experience is what is wishful thinking.
The iPad Pros limits are easier to overcome than that by far.

And yet they choose to keep all the iPad Pro limits in place because they really don’t care…

 

[bcortens]

And yet they choose to keep all the iPad Pro limits in place because they really don’t care…

They have loosened restrictions over time (even offering virtual memory now) so they do seem to care a bit. They just don't seem to care enough.

 

[Boil]

Would not the Apple "What's a computer...?" ad point to the iPad being a Mac replacement...? ;^p

Obviously it is not for all users, but for a vast majority it can be...

I feel it should be less about making the iPad (and iPadOS) into a Mac replacement, and more about making apps more uniform (in looks, operation, and functionality/features) across the assorted Apple OS variants...?

But when it comes to any serious heavy lifting, an actual Mac computer will trounce an iPad (Pro) all day...?

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Would not the Apple "What's a computer...?" ad point to the iPad being a Mac replacement...? ;^p

Obviously it is not for all users, but for a vast majority it can be...

I feel it should be less about making the iPad (and iPadOS) into a Mac replacement, and more about making apps more uniform (in looks, operation, and functionality/features) across the assorted Apple OS variants...?

But when it comes to any serious heavy lifting, an actual Mac computer will trounce an iPad (Pro) all day...?

To be fair, I could live with this idea on an iPad Pro. Give me a real desktop (not stage manager), a real finder, and the ability to create more robust iPad Apps, and I wouldn’t need Mac on an iPad Pro.

 

[heretiq]

To be fair, I could live with this idea on an iPad Pro. Give me a real desktop (not stage manager), a real finder, and the ability to create more robust iPad Apps, and I wouldn’t need Mac on an iPad Pro.

I think Apple is close to giving you these capabilities on the iPad Pro @eltoslightfoot:

• The files app has improved considerably. I’m curious, what do you think it needs to be a “a real finder’ for your use cases?
• Swift Playgrounds already supports the full app-dev lifecycle for certain kinds of apps (I’ve used it to knock out a couple prototypes and was impressed with the results). Have you tried it? What would it need to create the more robust apps you have in mind?
• Stage Manager was improved in iOS 17 — so I take this as a sign that Apple is committed to making it better. What does the iPad Pro need to add deliver “a real desktop” for you?

I know I’m asking you to do work 👨‍💻, but I’m genuinely curious about your ideas and willing to help drive them forward by echoing the ones that resonate in Apple Feedback — which they absolutely listen and respond to. Thoughts? 🤔

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I think Apple is close to giving you these capabilities on the iPad Pro @eltoslightfoot:

• The files app has improved considerably. I’m curious, what do you think it needs to be a “a real finder’ for your use cases?
• Swift Playgrounds already supports the full app-dev lifecycle for certain kinds of apps (I’ve used it to knock out a couple prototypes and was impressed with the results). Have you tried it? What would it need to create the more robust apps you have in mind?
• Stage Manager was improved in iOS 17 — so I take this as a sign that Apple is committed to making it better. What does the iPad Pro need to add deliver “a real desktop” for you?

I know I’m asking you to do work 👨‍💻, but I’m genuinely curious about your ideas and willing to help drive them forward by echoing the ones that resonate in Apple Feedback — which they absolutely listen and respond to. Thoughts? 🤔

Well, I should record a video of trying to resize windows with Stage Manager on iPadOS 17 beta. Take the settings app. It isn’t a fluid resizing. It is either narrow or huge. It simply isn’t desktop OS level quality.

I actually don’t make apps. So the swift playgrounds vs. full Xcode is a non issue for me.

And I want to be able to have a full path with open as functionality. To use MS word, I have to use a share sheet long press in Nextcloud every time. Just give me finder.


We are getting closer though. Of course, a Surface Pro 9 with 5G is also getting closer when you can also load android apps.

 

[zach-coleman]

Having a Surface Pro 7 in college was proof to me that trying to make a tablet also be a laptop is a fool's errand. Seriously. The buttons from Windows' UI all had to be too big for a mouse, and yet still small enough to make touch annoying. The "tablet mode" that would force full screen apps to make it work more like a tablet did not come with any changes to the UI to make it easier to touch. Nothing but drawing apps even came close to supporting touch correctly, so you couldn't even do anything important without a mouse anyways. Awful virtual keyboard that could never figure out when to come out and when to make itself scarce. Janky, lousy, no developer support. The iPad and Mac already have problems drawing in developers. Imagine if they had to support one device with two entire different input methods that require different UI design scales and methodologies as well as a "standard" mac (unless you expect professionals to move to ipads and imacs with touch screens)

This is all so infeasible and even if apple somehow dragged everyone kicking and screaming to this iPad x MacOS situation, it would be a crummy user experience in comparison to having OSes tooled for the form factor. I promise you.

 

[startergo]

Ok So I tested UTM on my iPad Pro with a Jitterbug or iOS-deploy and installed Windows 7. It runs pretty well, better than Merge VM Pro (which looks like repackaged UTM anyway) because of the tethered mode. I also tried installing Windows 10, but got some OOBEREGION error. I will continue testing, but the operation looks a little sluggish. The developers of the UTM also said that it does not make sense running anything higher than Windows 7 in emulation mode.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Having a Surface Pro 7 in college was proof to me that trying to make a tablet also be a laptop is a fool's errand. Seriously. The buttons from Windows' UI all had to be too big for a mouse, and yet still small enough to make touch annoying. The "tablet mode" that would force full screen apps to make it work more like a tablet did not come with any changes to the UI to make it easier to touch. Nothing but drawing apps even came close to supporting touch correctly, so you couldn't even do anything important without a mouse anyways. Awful virtual keyboard that could never figure out when to come out and when to make itself scarce. Janky, lousy, no developer support. The iPad and Mac already have problems drawing in developers. Imagine if they had to support one device with two entire different input methods that require different UI design scales and methodologies as well as a "standard" mac (unless you expect professionals to move to ipads and imacs with touch screens)

This is all so infeasible and even if apple somehow dragged everyone kicking and screaming to this iPad x MacOS situation, it would be a crummy user experience in comparison to having OSes tooled for the form factor. I promise you.

That’s why the ideal scenario is both. Take the Surface Pro line (I have owned the SP2, SP3, SP5, and SP7 in full disclosure). I agree with most of what you said. But now with Windows 11, you can load Android apps instead of Windows for a better OS experience in tablet situations. But then I don’t have to settle for mobile OS level apps when I need desktop OS level performance or depth. So instead of Android/iPadOS MS Office, I get Windows OS MS Office. Instead of crappy Windows Netflix App, I get Android Netflix app.

That is what brings me hope. Or that Stage Manager and Finder will improve.

 

[startergo]

I have installed Windows 10 x64 in tethered UTM. Booting time to the login screen is about 1 minute and 38 seconds.
Pretty good for a pure emulation. There is no virtualization in iPadOS at all even though it has the same CPU as the M2 Mac.

 

[sparksd]

That’s why the ideal scenario is both. Take the Surface Pro line (I have owned the SP2, SP3, SP5, and SP7 in full disclosure). I agree with most of what you said. But now with Windows 11, you can load Android apps instead of Windows for a better OS experience in tablet situations. But then I don’t have to settle for mobile OS level apps when I need desktop OS level performance or depth. So instead of Android/iPadOS MS Office, I get Windows OS MS Office. Instead of crappy Windows Netflix App, I get Android Netflix app.

That is what brings me hope. Or that Stage Manager and Finder will improve.

How did you get the Android Netflix app for Windows? I only find the MS app store version (I do have the Android subsystem installed).

The Kindle Android app on my Surface Pro 7 is another good one.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

How did you get the Android Netflix app for Windows? I only find the MS app store version (I do have the Android subsystem installed).

The Kindle Android app on my Surface Pro 7 is another good one.

I was speaking hypothetically since I don’t currently use a Surface Pro. They don’t have netflix in the Amazon Appstore?

 

[sparksd]

I was speaking hypothetically since I don’t currently use a Surface Pro. They don’t have netflix in the Amazon Appstore?

No, they don't.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I took some people's advice in this thread and sold my iPad Pro 2021 and used the proceeds to get a Surface Pro 9. I have been using my wife's Surface Pro 2017 for a couple of weeks, and honestly, I must like having no limitations more that pretty mobile apps at an iPad size.

Thanks everyone! I will let you all know if I run into any issues.

 

[prospervic]

I decided not to invest more money in iPad Pro's because of this. The only difference is no touch screen on my MacBook Air. I can live with that. Also, the possibility exists that some future version of the Vision Pro may make both the iPad Pro and MacBook obsolete. One device to rule them all.

And I decided TO invest more money in Apple — the stock, that is. So whatever Apple device people purchase, iPad Pro or MacBook, ultimately benefits me.

 

[spiderman0616]

I decided not to invest more money in iPad Pro's because of this. The only difference is no touch screen on my MacBook Air. I can live with that. Also, the possibility exists that some future version of the Vision Pro may make both the iPad Pro and MacBook obsolete. One device to rule them all.

You and me both. I keep thinking about all the things I do with my current Apple stuff, the Sonos speakers, my iPad mini, etc. and I can easily envision a future where I just have my Macs for my big projects, my wearables (including the Vision Pro) and iPhone for everything else, and that's literally it.

I don't think this first model is going to usher in a huge rush of adoption and demand yet, but I think we all know how this story plays out down the road. Apple will hit the right mix of features, price, and design with the Vision Pro and will have its watershed moment much like the iPhone 4, the Apple Watch Series 3/4, the iPad 2, etc. When that happens, I imagine the TV/monitor business is going to start suffering major losses and people are going to start actually building and designing rooms with nice open areas for AR applications and workspaces. Who knows how good AirPods will be by then, but I can also envision someday getting rid of my Sonos speakers and HomePods.

This daydream I keep having over and over and over is years away, but I'm confident some version of it is coming. This has felt like the final frontier of consumer computing for a long time, and I am counting the days until I can try it out.