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The iPhone is like a hot 18 year old girl. Sexy body, pretty face, fun to touch, maybe a little flakey, but tons of potential.

Windows mobile devices are like a 40 year old woman. She was hot 10 years ago. Now she's mature and reliable, but a little chunky, very set in her ways, and only people her age can even come close to figuring her out, or care to.

LOL that is the perfect analogy!!!! :D:p:D
 
I'm going to re-post a comment I made on TUAW.com here because I think it is relevant:

where does "drew" get his ideas?

by all accounts microsoft's launches usually far outperform those we have seen from Apple in the last couple of weeks.

I wish the community would drop the "Apple is God, Microsoft is Satan" idea because it is giving those who choose to buy macs a very bad name.

I also cringe every time I see someone replacing the letter s in Microsoft with $ because really they don't deserve it. After all, in this case it is Apple who is charging for a sub-par service which is easily outperformed by Hotmail and it is Apple that is charging customers £19 for a plastic iPhone dock.

Give it a rest, eh?
 
If Windows Mobile is so bad, why does Apple use it?

As in the Apple sales people that ring up your order on the floor of the Apple Stores. I understand that the handheld devices they are using are running Windows Mobile. It has been posted on this Forum so I know that's accurate info.
 
If Windows Mobile is so bad, why does Apple use it?

As in the Apple sales people that ring up your order on the floor of the Apple Stores. I understand that the handheld devices they are using are running Windows Mobile. It has been posted on this Forum so I know that's accurate info.

Sometimes I use a Casio calculator. Does that mean it's better than the iPhone?
 
The iPhone is like a hot 18 year old girl. Sexy body, pretty face, fun to touch, maybe a little flakey, but tons of potential.

Windows mobile devices are like a 40 year old woman. She was hot 10 years ago. Now she's mature and reliable, but a little chunky, very set in her ways, and only people her age can even come close to figuring her out, or care to.

It's so true...lol
 
To me, usability is key. That's not to say, however, the usability of everything on my iPhone is great or even good. There are many things I miss about my WM phones, but the net difference is the iPhone just plain works a lot better for me. Here are a few things I'm finding annoying on the iPhone and I'm hoping they get adjusted in future updates:

In the calendar, it takes way too much tapping and swiping to make a new event. And for crying out loud, why does the time default to the morning of the day I'm adding an event, especially when it's already after noon? I should be able to tap on the day view at the time I want (a la Outlook) and hit 'new' to make an event at that time. And let me set some default, will you? I always want a 15 minute reminder on new events and I shouldn't have to specify that every single time. Grrr. And why not let me drag an event to a different time? Currently, dragging causes it to scroll, which is great. How about letting me hold my finger on an event for a couple seconds to make it loose and movable? How about letting me specify an arbitrary number of minutes/hours/days I want in the reminder field instead of choosing presets from a list? WM does this, too, and I was hoping the iPhone was better than that.

I want more options in mail, too. I don't want to see the next message when I'm done with the current one, thankyouverymuch. Give me the option to return to the inbox after moving or deleting a message.

However, I should never have to edit a registry in a freaking phone. That's silly and usually requires me to do some research to find a good editor (hopefully free) and to figure out what stupid value needs to be tweaked so I can install my own applications or ringtones, for instance.

The WM browsers absolutely suck. On my Moto Q (3G, too), a site like this one would take nearly two minutes to render and it would look like ass. Moving the dumb directional pad was a frustrating exercise in getting it to select the link you want. It took strange combinations of left/right/up/down as it would often skip past the one you want.

Sometimes the left softkey was 'Done' and the right was 'Cancel.' Other times, it was the opposite. Nice touch, Microsoft, as that happened in MS apps. And copy/paste? Only a handful of apps I used supported it and none let me do it with text like this.

Some menu shortcuts were based on single letters while others were based on numbers. Google Maps used both and it got confused sometimes.

Another little bother was all the various text entry fields that should expect numeric inputs (such as a phone number), yet the keyboard mode is defaulting to alpha input. Talk about a bunch of useless keyboard mode swapping. In fact, text correction was so useless to me that I can already type far more quickly on my iPhone after a couple days of use than I could on my WM devices after a year of use.

I have never used MMS, but that doesn't mean others don't want or need it. I don't know how it would be used by business users, but it's also not something I pay much thought. Maybe such an app will show up in the app store some day.

I always hated having to use a task manager to quit apps when the phone chugged down, but I do wish the iPhone had some kind of indication of any apps currently running. I'd like something similar to the Dock in MacOS X where it could put a little blue dot in the corner of the icon for any currently-running app.
 
Sometimes I use a Casio calculator. Does that mean it's better than the iPhone?

If your calculator works 100% accurately, then the answer to your question is obvious. But I guess that depends on whether or not we understand ALL the buttons. Especially since you infer that it doesn't operate as well as the iPhone.
 
No point - most iPhone apps don't run in the background, apart from essential services like email and music. 3rd party apps can't either. They're just suspended with the current state frozen when you switch to another app. Just the same as ol' PalmOS there - for the same reasons - speed. Perversely, that's also why WM defaults to keeping apps running the background...

I have heard that before and I'm not doubting it to be true. But I do notice that apps launch instantly when touched, but after I force one to quit, it always takes a moment to relaunch it...I figured that was because it wasn't in RAM any more.

As for the iPhone being sutiable for business use, I've just posted this to Apple feedback, so may as well repeat here:-

Having had my expectations raised by Steve Job's keynote speech that the 3G iphone could be used in my work place, I'm very disappointed to find several issues that make it unusable as a business phone. I've had to go back to WM and Nokias and relegate the iPhone back to "toy" status...
1. No ToDo or Task list support, and no Task sync to Exchange or Outlook. Whoever thought this could be used in the workplace without the ability to manage a ToDo list?
2. No Copy/Paste. How can I copy relevant information from/to SMS, Email, Web, Contacts and Calendar?
3. No individual message delete in SMS. I have to delete the whole conversation(s) with that party. What if I just want to keep one message that contains an important bit of information, e.g. phone number/address? After all, I can't copy/paste it into anything else...
4. No notes sync. I realise Exchange OTA doesn't support Notes sync, but Outlook does. Why can't I sync and backup my memos and notes to my PC like any other smartphone?
5. No Bluetooth file transfer for photos, contacts or anything else - so I have to write my contact info down on bits of paper at meetings?
5. No full day view, definable working hours view, or 5/7 day week-to-a-page views in Calendar. Some of us like to program by week (which is why we buy add-in PIM applications...)
6. No API acess to Calendar Store - so 3rd party PIM suites like Pocket Informant are going to have to use their own database and OTA sync servers. How many corporate security managers are going to allow that? None. Ludicrous for a phone Apple are trying to pitch at enterprise/business users!
7. No wired sync for any 3rd party apps - such as password stores like eWallet or SplashID. The only way to do this is over ad-hoc WiFi - but that isn't allowed in many corporate environments!
8. No next appointment, call/message counts on standby screen. No alert LED. I have to unlock to find out if there's anything waiting or due.

Those are all excellent points. I mentioned something much like #8 in another thread. Let's hope Apple takes them seriously and makes some tweaks for us.
 
Geez... there is no end to the Apple is cooler than MS here...

First off any influential Microsoft employee worth his salt has looked at the iPhone. It is also no suprise that most of them would acknowledge that the iPhone has a good/better interface. Also, you could be showing it to the groundskeeper...

The WM interface truly is clunky, but it IS MORE CAPABLE for business needs. It has a better usability and more features for email, calendar, contacts, and tasks while connected to the most common business email system. It has cool features like "Ignore" an incoming call instead of having to listen to it ring which is the iPhone method and many others. Using the iPhone for email, meetings, and contacts isn't as easy as Windows Mobile.

Browsing the web, listening to music, and playing some games is worlds better on the iPhone.

So the fun/cool factor is way better on the iPhone (which I have) and business functionality and usability is better on the WM phones (which I have had several).

What I don't understand is why Apple doesn't look at WM objectively and copy those useful features, as well as why doesn't MS look and the iPhone objectively and copy the fun stuff.

What I do expect is a bunch of Mac fanboys, who don't have business experience, to trash MS.
 
If Windows Mobile is so bad, why does Apple use it?

As in the Apple sales people that ring up your order on the floor of the Apple Stores. I understand that the handheld devices they are using are running Windows Mobile. It has been posted on this Forum so I know that's accurate info.

Because there's nothing else available.

Trust me, anyone who has worked for Apple would tell you how unreliable EasyPay devices are to use..
 
Because there's nothing else available.

Trust me, anyone who has worked for Apple would tell you how unreliable EasyPay devices are to use..

There are other wireless devices to check out customers. Apple chose to use these devices because of versitility and programability. "Trust me" that Apple retail management system management aren't going to agree with you.

It seems that the "unreliability" in checkouts was related to the backend systems, connections to ATT, and heavy sales.

Another in the saga of if it's MS, it's not cool...
 
i have a blackjack 2 right now..


if you just add a couple of apps and tweak the interface wm6 really isnt that bad


im going to get an iphone soon but stop bashing wm it really isnt that bad:rolleyes:
 
A few comments.

(1) How long does it take you to email a "high res 10 MP picture" from the field?

(2) Why have an SD card when you have 16 GB on board and can wirelessly transfer just about anything you want?

(3) How often do you edit office documents on your phone? Don't you carry a laptop with 3G and wifi, like most business users that I know?

(4) Cut and pasting would be nice, but again, how often do you and other business users do this on their phone?

(5) Look for a native app that edits office docs in the near future.

The iphone hits the sweet spot for this business user, who has a laptop for some things and a phone for others. No need to carry anything else.

I think people are making good points-- but people also tend to forget what do people really do with a phone/smartphone.

The ONLY thing my large company uses the BB for is email, calendar, sametime for messaging, and well there is a pathetically awful google maps app and internal web browsing for our corporate sites. Everything else on the phone has been locked down.

I have a blackberry for work and an iPhone (had the 4gb now have the 16gb white). I hate the blackberry-- to me everything takes twice as long. Just getting the phone to vibrate is ridiculous. I LOATHE to use the BB for a conference call-- switching between speaker to handset to mute and unmute is crap.

The keyboard-- eh. for some reason it aggravates my carpal tunnel much worse than the iphone so I prefer to use the iphone touch-- I dont feel like having to put so much pressure just to type.

I have NEVER edited a word doc or xls sheet with a bb--- the docs I have are typically so large and expansive I cant imagine or fathom trying to do this -- and why would I want to go more blind than I am trying to do so?

MMS? I am not a kid--

Copy and paste-- eh-- I have lived without it for years-- I dont care one way or the other about having it or not having it.

Today at the office I asked the bb users in my office what did they use their phone for and no one mentioned anything about editing docs, taking pictures (ha, our cameras are disabled anyhow), copy and paste-- everyone said they use it take calls and check email and check their calendar.

I guess I just dont know any "serious business folks" in the world who need those other things-- I guess my company's users (financial services corporation) is not "serious" enough. *LOL*
 
Apparently you are not familiar with the concept of enthusiast groups. I find it more surprising that you would expect anything different from an open forum dedicated to rumors about a specific brand. I find "anti-fanboys" to be slightly more pathetic then genuine enthusiasts.

I realize you directed this at Gecko, but as I started that line of posting, I'll throw my $.02 in.

I don't think an "enthusiast group" equates with a pack of rabid fanboys. Do you? I came and joined this site to discuss my macbook pro, get some news, info, suggestions, etc etc. In fact, I'm on numerous enthusiast forums. It's an informative way to stay on top of products you own and love. I love my iphone and my macbook pro.

That said, what *I* find pathetic is the constant and pervasive need to diss "Micro$oft, Winblows, Windoze," and whatever else childish, un-funny crap people come up with. It's a waste of time. Can't we just discuss Apple products without the need for the pissing contest? You sound like morons, seriously. I feel bad for anyone who speaks and thinks with that level of impenetrable bias, because it's borderline lemming mentality.

Also, it makes me a tiny bit ashamed to own a mac and an iphone.
 
Right on Queen of Spades...

I started out with an Apple II. I think Apple make great products overall. It seems to me that Steve Jobs pretty much is in charge and makes good calls (MS seems to be design by commitee and this hurts them). MS could learn something from Apple no doubt.

I started reading this group when I converted to an iPhone from a Windows Mobile device that worked great, it's just that I liked the Apple design sensability and design is important to me. I have grown used to many of the features in WM that the iPhone, suprisingly, lacks. I would just like to have my opinions known so that Apple may decide to roll them into an update. One example is that the battery is lacking, but saying so on this board caused fanboys to initially react vehemently suggesting that we should put up or return our iPhones, but over time there were many helpful suggestions (thank you).

I don't need to have a bunch of narrow-minded individual attack any suggestion that Apple might have not be the far and away leader in ideas, so thank you to all of those of you who are here to be helpful and share their knowledge vs. their demagoguery.
 
Again, some good posts.
I like to read the good stuff without the MS OR APPLE bashing. They both have great products! And as SJ said, one doesn't have to lose for the other to win. I've seen that statement posted many times on the forum but it doesn't seem to make any difference.
If we could just filter the bashing.
 
I realize you directed this at Gecko, but as I started that line of posting, I'll throw my $.02 in.

I don't think an "enthusiast group" equates with a pack of rabid fanboys. Do you? I came and joined this site to discuss my macbook pro, get some news, info, suggestions, etc etc. In fact, I'm on numerous enthusiast forums. It's an informative way to stay on top of products you own and love. I love my iphone and my macbook pro.

That said, what *I* find pathetic is the constant and pervasive need to diss "Micro$oft, Winblows, Windoze," and whatever else childish, un-funny crap people come up with. It's a waste of time. Can't we just discuss Apple products without the need for the pissing contest? You sound like morons, seriously. I feel bad for anyone who speaks and thinks with that level of impenetrable bias, because it's borderline lemming mentality.

Also, it makes me a tiny bit ashamed to own a mac and an iphone.

I think enthusiast group applies very well to this forum but "rabid fanboys" certainly only applies to some of the people that post here. If I were you I wouldn't take offense to the Microsoft bashing unless you are responsible for the products they are bashing. The sibling rivalry between these two companies (and enthusiasts) is long standing and I would think anyone visiting these forums would be aware of it. If this makes you ashamed to choose the computer and phone that you prefer then your priorities are different then mine.
 
I think enthusiast group applies very well to this forum but "rabid fanboys" certainly only applies to some of the people that post here. If I were you I wouldn't take offense to the Microsoft bashing unless you are responsible for the products they are bashing. The sibling rivalry between these two companies (and enthusiasts) is long standing and I would think anyone visiting these forums would be aware of it. If this makes you ashamed to choose the computer and phone that you prefer then your priorities are different then mine.

I don't take offense, I find it annoying. It rarely contributes to any sort of rational, intelligent discussion. I'm not a Microsoft apologist, the point is every company has its strengths and weaknesses. Pretending that one is entirely superior to another constantly and without provocation? Come on.

You misunderstand, what makes me ashamed is that the "some people" who are idiotic fanboys on this forum become the spokespeople for Apple customers. And that's aggravating, as not all of us are in the business of blind ballwashing. I don't want to be lumped in with that group.
 
I don't take offense, I find it annoying. It rarely contributes to any sort of rational, intelligent discussion. I'm not a Microsoft apologist, the point is every company has its strengths and weaknesses. Pretending that one is entirely superior to another constantly and without provocation? Come on.

You misunderstand, what makes me ashamed is that the "some people" who are idiotic fanboys on this forum become the spokespeople for Apple customers. And that's aggravating, as not all of us are in the business of blind ballwashing. I don't want to be lumped in with that group.

I have found that, in general, the vocal minority exaggerates to the extremes and is quickest to react.
 
AMEN!!! The one thing that almost stopped me from buying an iPhone was the somewhat undeserved smugness of the Mac fanboy community. Half of what they say on these boards is misinformed rubbish. It's like they watch the commercials and just believe it all. Marketing suckers.

IMHO, WM has many advantages over the iPhone. It's the iPhone that's playing catch-up here, not the other way around.

BUT, to be fair, Apple does an excellent job at entering an already established market (ex: mp3 players) and making a nice and shiny polished product that is hard to resist. I intentionally skipped the 1G iPhone because it was way to lacking in features. With 3G and the ability to load 3rd party apps, it has come a long way.

But to hear things in one thread about how much more stable the iPhone is and then in another read about how many times someone's new iPhone has crashed is laughable. It's like these guys can't smell their own ****.

I appreciate both WM and the iPhone. I hope that MS can find a way to improve WM in the future....but having control of the hardware you install your platform on is a great advantage for Apple. Also, controlling the testing and delivery of 3rd party apps is another advantage (while being a disadvantage at the same time.)

All I'm saying guys is be reasonable. Both products have their pros and cons. Don't speak out of ignorance if you haven't used both. Stop being a blind fanboy and be objective.

By the way, I work for MS and my buddies there love my new phone.

I agree entirely. And am quoting in its entirety just so some of these people will reread it.
 
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