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Well, allowing me to side load Apps does not effect you. You can still limit yourself to App Store Apps and Apple's nanny rules without sacrificing any security. There is no need to thrust that loss of freedom on me.
Uh yes it does. Take a look at what Epic is doing on PC. There are some games that you can ONLY get on the Epic Games Store on PC. They are buying exclusives. What if I want the app that's only available as a side load or a separate App Store? Wait, before you respond, let me counter it. If you say "well just don't use that app", let me ask you this. Are there are OMG LIFE SAVING apps that are absolutely needed anyway? No? Then why does limiting it to one store affect you too?
 
Because they know that the "security" justification to block sideloading is a ******** argument to begin with, and they don't want to acknowledge the paradox?

Show us how the security justification is BS. Because you just seem to speak from emotion so far.
 
Believe me, I am well aware of the dangers regarding macOS. And I am not saying that it is perfect. Yet, neither is iOS. iOS-devices have had exploits (and probably still have many we aren't even aware of), there is no perfect security when it comes to software (and probably when it comes to hardware, too).
And I think there still is some potential making macOS more secure. Actually, I am sure Apple is working on it right now (by e.g. disabling kernel extensions). However, in my opinion, both is possible: being able to choose the way you want to use your device while at the same time being protected from bad actors.
Nothing....and I mean NOTHING can ever be perfect. We have laws that are supposed to prevent people from stealing, murdering people, avoiding taxes. Yet there are still criminals. Nothing.....NOTHING is perfect. So we should just not try?

I did not say iOS was perfect. But what it does is better than the alternative.
 
Ok great. Then Ford can now require you to use Motorcraft oils & fluids exclusively, or no warranty. After all, it's their product they should be able to do what they want with it. Buy something else if you don't like it.
I have no problems with that. They can even require a special kind of fuel too. Or you can only drive it on certain roads.

As long as I'm informed before I buy the car.
 
Does not take too many pages to realise those common talking points got repeated once again here. :rolleyes:
Duopoly=competition?
Willing to believe everything a private company tell you but get skeptical about something government would say?
Willing to let private company do whatever they want?
The list probably can go a bit longer than that. :oops:
Me would undoubtedly believe Tim Cook saying this cause he cares more about App Store revenue than user privacy. It’s just that saying protecting user privacy echoes user demands better and people would feel Apple is doing good thing for them, which we Apple device users have paid a hefty premium for. Well, only Tim Cook and maybe his inner circles know exactly why he says that.
Who actually went to court to just say No when the FBI wanted access to iPhone? We have had more evidence of Apple actually caring about privacy than we have evidence that its just a "line/pr stunt".
 
If I want to side-load a bunch of apps to my phone then I should be able to.

I already have a bunch of apps side-loaded on my iPhone. I use Xcode, write some apps, and sign them with my Developer ID. Or I download iOS projects from GitHub (there are tons), modify the source code to my tastes, and also side-load these apps to try them out.

This is easier with an Apple Developer ID, but you can use Xcode to side-load your apps for shorter periods of time just using your Apple ID.
 
I don't understand the authoritarian stance that Apple has on this.

Allow people to do enable side-loading etc if they want. It should be like an official Jailbreak switc

iOS should warn people and make it a slightly complex process (malware concerns). Also allow people to revert back if they want to.

Maybe even have options like root shell, jailbreak, 3rd party app stores etc.

So it remains streamlined and apple-ish, but also gives people the freedom to do whatever
Uhhhhh....its their product? You are essentially telling apple to FORCE their developers to enable side loading and probably re-think their entire app distribution process. So yes, they do have the right to say some things. This is like saying what right does a video game company have to prevent me from having this one setting. Devs actually take resources you know.
 
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The good thing is that Android supports:
* Alternative app stores
* Sideloading
* Using third party payment solutions

Seems like it solves every problem people have with iOS.
Seriously, what is happening to this world where product A can not have advantages over Product B and vice versa? This is exactly what is good about competition. I do NOT want ANY of what you stated, so I choose Apple. I do not like this forcing Apple to turn into Android. If you want Android features, go Android.
 
Seriously, what is happening to this world where product A can not have advantages over Product B and vice versa? This is exactly what is good about competition. I do NOT want ANY of what you stated, so I choose Apple. I do not like this forcing Apple to turn into Android. If you want Android features, go Android.
That is exactly what I am saying.

iOS does not have to support any of those things since Android does.
 
Then why allow it on the Mac? Sideloading should be standard at this point.

Well historically the Mac had no App Store until a few years back. If anything the App Store is a side loading method to the traditional Mac approach of just downloading from websites.
 
Ok great. Then Ford can now require you to use Motorcraft oils & fluids exclusively, or no warranty. After all, it's their product they should be able to do what they want with it. Buy something else if you don't like it.

Well, that’s precisely how gaming consoles work, no?
 
Ok great. Then Ford can now require you to use Motorcraft oils & fluids exclusively, or no warranty. After all, it's their product they should be able to do what they want with it. Buy something else if you don't like it.
They will question it. I have had a dealer request service records before they would perform a repair under warranty, and they tried to say that because I used an aftermarket exhaust I voided the warranty.. They told me to take it up with Mitsubishi.
 
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Ok great. Then Ford can now require you to use Motorcraft oils & fluids exclusively, or no warranty. After all, it's their product they should be able to do what they want with it. Buy something else if you don't like it.
But, I think honestly, this is not quite the same, but I understand what you are saying.
 
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The good thing is that Android supports:
* Alternative app stores
* Sideloading
* Using third party payment solutions

Seems like it solves every problem people have with iOS.
But introduces a hundred others 😆. Choices choices
 
They will question it. I have had a dealer request service records before they would perform a repair under warranty, and they tried to say that because I used an aftermarket exhaust I voided the warranty.. They told me to take it up with Mitsubishi.
Beat me to it. Car manufacturer's give you a seriously hard time with warranties if you do maintenance outside the dealership, or do something as simple as change oil yourself.
 
Beat me to it. Car manufacturer's give you a seriously hard time with warranties if you do maintenance outside the dealership, or do something as simple as change oil yourself.
This is off the beaten path of the thread, but:

The (dealer) would (imo) only give you a hard time when you void the warranty on a part and then want warranty service on something related. For example, you change your ECU on a new car and the engine blows up. Do you think the dealer will replace the engine under warranty if they determine the ECU was changed to a third party?
 
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Also look at how ransomware has spread in the Windows world and we are starting to see it in the macOS world also.
Ransomware might be a decent argument, but if that's the case, Apple should explicitly state that, instead of tossing out generic buzzwords like "privacy & security."

And the burden should be on Apple to justify precisely how and why they think iOS needs to be a closed system but Mac OS doesn't. I'm kinda tired of only hearing it from people in a forum that enjoy defending Apple's every move.
 
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As a developer, I hate that I'm forced to use App Store distribution (and some enterprise stuff, but that only works for select use cases) and that I'm therefore limited to Apple-approved ways of doing things (so no low-level tinkery).

As a user, I love that all available apps can be found in the App Store and that I don't have to worry about unsigned stuff running on my iPhone. Sure, App Store reviews aren't perfect, but they're clearly better than nothing.

I can't see any way to make both sides perfectly happy, and if I'd have to choose, I'd prefer to keep things as they are, except for two things:
  • Standardized commission of 10%
  • No "objectionable content" rejections; if an app is legal in a region, it should be allowed to be distributed (this includes information about drone strike casualties, adult stuff etc.). Showing a warning is fine, as is blocking access for minors.
As a developer: I love the App Store for distribution. It's so much more than just the 'App Store' that Apple provides - financial & legal; metrics; comprehensive review process; etc. Their commission is entirely fair for what they provide.

As a user: I love the App Store as I know that if it's an App in the App Store, the chance of it doing anything nasty is close to 0%

There already is a choice for folks who want to side-load all sorts of garbage: Android.
 
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Show us how the security justification is BS. Because you just seem to speak from emotion so far.
I have the entire history of major consumer facing general computing operating systems (other than iOS) allowing sideloading as my justification. Apple is the only major player doing this, and so far, the status quo for iOS is the only justification.

All of the defenses so far, from Apple and people in this forum, all resolve down to maintaining the status quo for iOS, because change seems scary.
 
All of the defenses so far, from Apple and people in this forum, all resolve down to maintaining the status quo for iOS, because change seems scary.

Maybe some people don't think "change" is necessary. The App Store has been around for 13 years. :)

I've never thought "gee I wish I could visit some random website to download some untested code onto my iPhone which connects to a vast communications network..."

But yes... I know some people do want that...

:p
 
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The fact that these apps could track us across websites and other apps like this is just scummy and should never have been allowed in the first place.
You can't get an apple UUID over http, only from iOS apps. So even if Facebook has your iOS UUID, they can't link that with any info they get over a web page.
 
I have the entire history of major consumer facing general computing operating systems (other than iOS) allowing sideloading as my justification. Apple is the only major player doing this, and so far, the status quo for iOS is the only justification.

All of the defenses so far, from Apple and people in this forum, all resolve down to maintaining the status quo for iOS, because change seems scary.
I’m asking for specific arguments and points, not one generic argument that is in fact fallacious. “All of computing history has done this, therefore we must do this”. There is nothing concrete in that. It is lazy and you come off as if you are engaging in willful ignorance.

There are plenty of arguments to be made to have Apps vetted for use. An open internet does not come without serious considerations into malicious actors out there. There is a lot to unpack in this concept alone.
 
macOS brings little to no revenue toward Apple’s bottom line, so it’s pointless to keep it as “secure” as an iPhone.
I would say that macOS is the soul of the Macs. Without macOS, I don't think any Macs will sell. Macs brought in $9B of revenue for the past quarter, so I would think macOS is a key part of Apple's revenue strategy.
 
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