Sideloading Bill Would Allow 'Malware, Scams and Data-Exploitation to Proliferate,' Says Apple

[Macropanda]

I'm for the market deciding these things, not Congress. It would be like forcing property owners to rent space to merchants they may not want in their mall/shopping center. Imagine an adult toy popup store in a mall parking lot.

That said, Apple could easily do this by creating on iOS/iPadOS this same panel that exists on macOS, with the App Store set to on by default.

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Edit: Upon reflection the first part of what I wrote isn't an appropriate analogy. I just loathe the threats that Congress will do something because the Congress right now sucks.

This in theory would work.... but every scammer that calls up vulnerable people to trick them into stuff would be getting them to change this option. Even if there was a prompt saying "enabling this can lead to scams, malware etc" the scammer would be saying "ah you can just ignore the next pop up".

Right now, vulnerable people have a device which keeps them relatively safe. Removing that option is going to increase scams a lot.

All so someone can side load what.... the odd game boy emulator or Fortnite?

 

[amnesia0287]

This in theory would work.... but every scammer that calls up vulnerable people to trick them into stuff would be getting them to change this option. Even if there was a prompt saying "enabling this can lead to scams, malware etc" the scammer would be saying "ah you can just ignore the next pop up".

Right now, vulnerable people have a device which keeps them relatively safe. Removing that option is going to increase scams a lot.

All so someone can side load what.... the odd game boy emulator or Fortnite?

hey… don’t forget Japanese adult dating sims… I mean docker.

 

[TheOldChevy]

I bought it the way it is and I like it to stay this way. I don't need my iPhone to access FW from outside App Store, I like that all prosed software comes exclusively through the store. The store is not perfect, but it remains better than raw Internet.

 

[chad.petree]

Why? You wouldn’t want your privacy to be exposed. It is a big threat. It will open up the gates to the malware.

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https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/Building_a_Trusted_Ecosystem_for_Millions_of_Apps_A_Threat_Analysis_of_Sideloading.pdf

I mean you could just choose not to sideload any apps, just a thought…

No one is forcing you to do it, but having the option for those who want to would be very nice. I find this very infantilizing, only pappa timmy and freddy know what is best for us… give us some agency.

 

[MacBH928]

I still believe in "My Product, my rules"

none the less, apple could have a button deep down in the system settings that allow sideloading with a warning that Apple no longer responsible for any hacks and viruses causes by the user's choice to sideload apps. win-win.

*****

The truth about this Apple knows the products will be sold for less else where and they will lose their sweet sweet 30% cut. How come those malwares and viruses are not affecting macos!?

 

[Nuno Lopes]

Apple executives argument is typical straw man argument, a gaslighting thing.

The issue at hand is not about security but about anti-competitive Big Tech policies.

What Apple is arguing is either have society accepting their anti-competitive App Store policies, case in case, accept the practice of billing and taxing entirely at their own discretion the sale of products they do not sell, distribute or have any IP over it on peoples smartphones … all for security reasons, or don’t and we have a security havoc. Which is ridiculous. It runs on the premisse that everyone is a crook but us/Apple. It runs on the premisse that the user would be prefer insecurity (Sideloading) rather than security (App Store), when it know that the reason why users might consider the first has nothing to do with security … but indeed control over their property … the smartphone they bought.

The iPhone and iOS is indeed Apples IP. But the smartphones people bought aren’t their property, neither are the licenses of use, neither are third party businesses Apps. These need to have a degree of protection under regulation in order not to have their properties hijacked by Big Tech at their own discretion, all totally institutionalised.

Cheers.

 

[TheOldChevy]

I mean you can just choose not to sideload any apps, just a thought…

No one is forcing you to do it, but having the option for those who want to would be very nice. I find this very infantilizing, only pappa timmy and freddy know what is best for us… give us some agency.

You can side-load on your Mac, on your PC, on your Android device. Nobody forbids you anything.

 

[JDHiro]

I mean you can just choose not to sideload any apps, just a thought…

No one is forcing you to do it, but having the option for those who want to would be very nice. I find this very infantilizing, only pappa timmy and freddy know what is best for us… give us some agency.

Given the pain-in-the-butt it can be to get an app approved, I can see a lot of developers spending considerable effort to convince users to enable side-loading so they can skip the App Store.

If side-loading is mandated, I'm going to leave that turned OFF.

 

[makitango]

I think back on November 2021. Craig Federighi (SVP) said the same thing about Sideloading how it's going to open the floodgates to the Malware.

If Sideloading opens up. Can you imagine how easily cyber criminals will target the system? It will give them full access. Hoping for the win for Apple. Keep it closed.

Ever heard about signed software? Because that‘s not how it works.

The permission system to access and share data is the same for sideloaded apps like those in the App Store.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

Completely inaccurate.

Sideloading would still be sandboxed and can be done exceptionally safely

Absolutely. There are technical solutions for this. Apple executives stance is not concerned with protecting users, but protecting their ability to control smartphone properties that do not even own, in particular payment and billing workflows activities on those properties. Ultimately what people buy and what businesses sell. That is all there is to it.

In governance terms Apple is arguing that a Totalitarian system is more secure and safe system, a safer arbor for its constituents than a Liberal one. History has over and over proven otherwise. Quickly became abusive … as it is already showing signs of it … tye abuse is inevitable. So is inevitable the propaganda with the aim painting it as one of unleashing peoples freedoms and creativity.

 

[JarikD]

This thing is exactly like this pandemic. Non vaccinated people beating their chest saying that “if you want to be safe that get a vaccine, I don’t have to, I know my body, I won’t let any virus inside me”. But this is not about individuals. If you get virus, we all are at some point endangered. If you get virus by your actions and not protecting yourself, than at some point there will be “pandemic” in iOS.
iOS and it’s users are not built for opening the “garden”. Decade of knowing how this ecosystem works, would be for users like colonization of new continent. But we would be the natives.
Android was made like this from it’s beginning. It’s different world, different rules, and they know how to live inside. 9/10 iOS users believe they are safe, and know they can’t get some ******** installed in their phone. They know how it works.
You, because you are reading this forum, are 1/10 iOS users, you know technology, you know this topic, and you know how things work. Most of users don’t, and they will be exactly the most vulnerable users, targeted by “colonization”.
So stop this colony. You can’t act like if all users are developers, tech savvy. I already can’t explain my mom how she is always getting those calendar malware in her iPhone, she says “I just clicked. It asked me to allow” Most of the people have no idea what is dangerous and what is not, most users have no idea what is firewall etc.. That’s why people buy iPhones. Because they are “dumb” and they basically have no time or will to deal with some exploits. They want their device to work, like Nokias did, like Ericssons did. Those are majority of customers. Not us.

I fully support Apple in this.
Go buy Android if you want Android. Don’t force iOS to become Android.
#peace

 

[mrochester]

This thing is exactly like this pandemic. Non vaccinated people beating their chest saying that “if you want to be safe that get a vaccine, I don’t have to, I know my body, I won’t let any virus inside me”. But this is not about individuals. If you get virus, we all are at some point endangered. If you get virus by your actions and not protecting yourself, than at some point there will be “pandemic” in iOS.
iOS and it’s users are not built for opening the “garden”. Decade of knowing how this ecosystem works, would be for users like colonization of new continent. But we would be the natives.
Android was made like this from it’s beginning. It’s different world, different rules, and they know how to live inside. 9/10 iOS users believe they are safe, and know they can’t get some ******** installed in their phone. They know how it works.
You, because you are reading this forum, are 1/10 iOS users, you know technology, you know this topic, and you know how things work. Most of users don’t, and they will be exactly the most vulnerable users, targeted by “colonization”.
So stop this colony. You can’t act like if all users are developers, tech savvy. I already can’t explain my mom how she is always getting those calendar malware in her iPhone, she says “I just clicked. It asked me to allow” Most of the people have no idea what is dangerous and what is not, most users have no idea what is firewall etc.. That’s why people buy iPhones. Because they are “dumb” and they basically have no time or will to deal with some exploits. They want their device to work, like Nokias did, like Ericssons did. Those are majority of customers. Not us.

I fully support Apple in this.
Go buy Android if you want Android. Don’t force iOS to become Android.
#peace

Agree completely and utterly.

 

[ChromeCloud]

I'm not concerned about malware or security, because honestly I'm pretty good at staying away from it even on PC.

I fear opening up iOS to side-loading will just make using the phone a worse experience for all of us.

I'm not sure why the majority of people don't see this, but once you open up the phone to side-loading, then you enable software companies to do whatever they want: distribute apps outside the App Store, using their own payment system, circumvent all ad-tracking policies and so on.

Big software companies will implement all of that, because they have the resources to do it and because they know that you, the user, cannot rebel against it, because ultimately you need/want their software regardless of how many hoops you will have to jump through to use it.

Do you want to own a phone where your favorite apps:

• ask to put in your credit card details whenever you want to unlock a premium feature or renew a subscription?
• are not automatically kept up to date by downloading the latest updates in the background?
• can track you to earn more money from advertisement?
• will not automatically be installed whenever you upgrade to a new device?

And this is just to name a few of the inconveniences every user will have to put up with.


I hope the legislation will not pass.

 

[b0fh666]

This thing is exactly like this pandemic. Non vaccinated people beating their chest saying that “if you want to be safe that get a vaccine, I don’t have to, I know my body, I won’t let any virus inside me”. But this is not about individuals. If you get virus, we all are at some point endangered. If you get virus by your actions and not protecting yourself, than at some point there will be “pandemic” in iOS.
iOS and it’s users are not built for opening the “garden”. Decade of knowing how this ecosystem works, would be for users like colonization of new continent. But we would be the natives.
Android was made like this from it’s beginning. It’s different world, different rules, and they know how to live inside. 9/10 iOS users believe they are safe, and know they can’t get some ******** installed in their phone. They know how it works.
You, because you are reading this forum, are 1/10 iOS users, you know technology, you know this topic, and you know how things work. Most of users don’t, and they will be exactly the most vulnerable users, targeted by “colonization”.
So stop this colony. You can’t act like if all users are developers, tech savvy. I already can’t explain my mom how she is always getting those calendar malware in her iPhone, she says “I just clicked. It asked me to allow” Most of the people have no idea what is dangerous and what is not, most users have no idea what is firewall etc.. That’s why people buy iPhones. Because they are “dumb” and they basically have no time or will to deal with some exploits. They want their device to work, like Nokias did, like Ericssons did. Those are majority of customers. Not us.

I fully support Apple in this.
Go buy Android if you want Android. Don’t force iOS to become Android.
#peace

it’s a brave new world indeed

 

[Nuno Lopes]

.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

This thing is exactly like this pandemic. Non vaccinated people beating their chest saying that “if you want to be safe that get a vaccine, I don’t have to, I know my body, I won’t let any virus inside me”. But this is not about individuals. If you get virus, we all are at some point endangered. If you get virus by your actions and not protecting yourself, than at some point there will be “pandemic” in iOS.
iOS and it’s users are not built for opening the “garden”. Decade of knowing how this ecosystem works, would be for users like colonization of new continent. But we would be the natives.
Android was made like this from it’s beginning. It’s different world, different rules, and they know how to live inside. 9/10 iOS users believe they are safe, and know they can’t get some ******** installed in their phone. They know how it works.
You, because you are reading this forum, are 1/10 iOS users, you know technology, you know this topic, and you know how things work. Most of users don’t, and they will be exactly the most vulnerable users, targeted by “colonization”.
So stop this colony. You can’t act like if all users are developers, tech savvy. I already can’t explain my mom how she is always getting those calendar malware in her iPhone, she says “I just clicked. It asked me to allow” Most of the people have no idea what is dangerous and what is not, most users have no idea what is firewall etc.. That’s why people buy iPhones. Because they are “dumb” and they basically have no time or will to deal with some exploits. They want their device to work, like Nokias did, like Ericssons did. Those are majority of customers. Not us.

I fully support Apple in this.
Go buy Android if you want Android. Don’t force iOS to become Android.
#peace

I wonder who is colonising who. Equating a Shop to a COVID vaccine … brilliant alucination heheh. What’s next, drink detergent?

 

[ruka.snow]

If you think the ability to install apps from different sources is the only difference between iPhones and Android phones then you're in for a big surprise.

I am not in for any surprise. Amazingly you can research things before posting and even develop for both platforms. It still stands that if Apple loses its main competitive advantage you might as well force iPhone users to install android on them.

 

[JarikD]

I wonder who is colonising who. Equating App Store, a Shop to a COVID vaccine … brilliant alucination heheh. What’s next, drink detergent?

World works on same principles applied in different fields. I was comparing computer virus spreading with human infection spreading. When Europeans came to America, they infected natives with the bunch of deadly diseases. The same applies for computer system, that was for decades built in a way, that does not come in contact with most of the "computer diseases" known in other regions, and their users (habitants), were never learned how to act if they come in contact with it. I am not saying AppStore is flawless. It's far from it, as well as iOS is. But it was built with some standards, and principles, from the beginning. And act like this, would mean need to rebuilding from the ground up. Something, that would be for all of users just not beneficial for at least decade. iOS would suffer from it, as well as it's users. I am a developer, and I don't think that it's problem that iOS is closed OS. The problem would be, if the closed system would force users into disadvantages after years of using the product. But after years, iOS has developed and works the way it works. Epic is doing nothing but trying to force game streaming revolution their own way, with law. If their system was good enough, they would not need to take their "revolution" to the court.
Freedom of choice comes with responsibility, and those principles apply in tech field as well. And people are not responsible. Stats are clear. If iOS will be forced to become open, then all users will be endangered. First by stock market, which will position Apple in the place of "loser" and will be expecting dramatic change in software, that could go wrong. And most likely would. Next by the actual results of change.
But it's just my opinion

 

[Reason077]

Wait... isn't the point of sideloading and alternative stores so that Apple isn't controlling the developers or the stores?

?

The strongest (legal) argument against Apple's App Store monopoly is that it's anti-competitive. Developers have no choice over how to distribute their apps, and Apple's (up to) 30% cut is probably much higher than it would be in a competitive market.

 

[boyarka]

Apple fanboys: imagine if they sold sand paper and toilet paper in the same store and Cook would not be able to give you his iPaper for 999,99 per roll and you had to choose yourself... and chose sandpaper and literally grind away your anus. That is what this proposal is about - removing security.
Imagine yourself sitting at home naked with a near fatal anal bleeding, in tears, and an iPhone with "2x more RAM pro plus" app that instead of doubling your ram spams your home screen with porn and anything you click opens a knock iff casino web page.
That is sideloading! Popups and *******s shreaded to shreads!

 

[Michael Scrip]

The strongest (legal) argument against Apple's App Store monopoly is that it's anti-competitive. Developers have no choice over how to distribute their apps, and Apple's (up to) 30% cut is probably much higher than it would be in a competitive market.

I could see after Apple is forced to allow sideloading and/or alternative app stores to get regulators off their backs... they also drop their commission to 10% or something... thus making the App Store attractive for some developers.

Sure the giant billion-dollar developers like Epic will go the external route... but the small one-person developers will likely stay in the App Store and enjoy all the benefits on an integrated app store experience.

Then everybody wins.

I mean... the arguments are "not enough stores" and "fees too high" right?

Well... Apple could lower their fees and keep their store running... and alternative stores and sideloading could exist too.

But let's be honest... Android has had alternative stores and sideloading for years. But the official Google Play Store is overwhelmingly where the most Android apps get acquired and purchased.

So maybe it won't be a big deal after all.

Let's face it though... if this "sideloading bill" goes through... Apple will do anything to keep as many developers in the App Store and not running off to build their own websites.

And you're right... the 30% commission is the big hurdle.

So if Apple fixes the commission problem... maybe developers won't need to find some other store or offer sideloaded apps from their website.

It'll be interesting to see how it all shakes out!

 

[chad.petree]

You can side-load on your Mac, on your PC, on your Android device. Nobody forbids you anything.

Well apple does forbid me from sideloading apps on the iphone, this is what we are talking about aren’t we? About the iphone and ios

 

[freedomlinux]

I got scammed by my Nigerian prince, no internet and digital devices for me 😭

It's very kind of the prince to help you make this forum post via mail tho

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Wow. Clever!

I can't wait to see what kind of new scams are created when people can download some scammy app from a sketchy website that now has your credit card number!

Like I said... fun times ahead!

?

Well ironically it will likely stay exactly the same ? as long as apps don’t have root access. Now apple is doing the equivalent of what the USSR did and not report crimes committed, and when they must they underplay it on orders of magnitude

 

[ksec]

Damn it, 23 pages of macrumors comments and not a single mention to pull out of America.