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i hope u ready then to get ur data stolen by sideloading a malicious app on ur iphone

Right now your data is not safe. Let me give you an example. You download a camera or a photo editing app from the AppStore you give it permission to access your Camera and/or Photos library in order for it to function. Once you do that the app could upload your entire library to its server without your knowledge. Not only that it could take pictures or videos make them hidden and upload them to its servers. It's a legit AppStore app and malicious no virus or malware needed.
 
There is so much wrong in this post, we could be here all night going over it.
I'd like to correct it all, but it's literally nearly all wrong

Just shaking my head at what totally incorrect and bad information people somehow have gotten a hold of.
Enlighten me.

How does enabling unknown code not create an attack vector? Most of the work of a hacker or pentester is simply to get code running on a machine, then getting it running in an elevated context, and/or then finding a way to inject or extract data from memory to monitor or modify other running code.

So sure, you might be running in a sandbox, but that doesn’t change how the hardware works, you may be limited in sectors/blocks/registers you may read or write to, but not everything must be done directly. You can use things like buffer overflow to push protected data into unprotected sectors or vice versa, you can manipulate the threading and context switching to potentially prevent the buffers from clearing before you read them, you can find trusted code that can move the data if you can’t.

Software is not infallible, and when it comes to secure computing, and unless you are air-gapped you always have some degree of risk (and when it comes down to it, there are even ways to compromise air-gapped devices though it’s certainly an order or a few magnitudes more difficult). Any time you add a new way to run code on a machine, you add an avenue for exploit. Why do you think so many exploits target javascript or flash back in the day? Because it is the easiest code to get running on the targets machine.

Could they add protections to scenarios like a QR code to sideload an app? Absolutely, but that’s just more engineering costs being pushed on to apple for no reason.

All it takes is a single way to push or pull data across the boundaries or elevate your access, just 1 exploit, and until it’s caught by security researchers and patched, every single device is at risk. There is a reason things like shielded VMs exist. But expecting a phone to have the hardware and performance overhead to run things like shielded vms seems a bit excessive.

Regardless, there has been more than one occasion where hypervisor, ones that were fully implementing hardware virtualization like sr-iov and vt-x/d, etc, were exploitable. VMware, Hyper-V, Xen, etc, all have had security issues at one point or another. We even have seen straight hardware level exploits like specter and meltdown which could read protected data straight out of the cpu cache. And just being honest but I’m pretty confident that any full hypervisor is more secure than your average app sandbox, especially if that sandbox needs pretty deep access to your device (running an app store is not some lightweight activity, since you are also the installer, also don’t forget, the App Store app itself could be the compromised thing, and then every app it installs would in turn potentially be compromised as well).

Ironically Forbes of all people posted a pretty good 5 laws of Cybersecurity, there are lots of versions and variations, but I think this covers the important bits.

  1. If there is a vulnerability, it WILL be exploited.
  2. There is always a vulnerability. Everything is always vulnerable in some way.
  3. Humans trust even when they shouldn‘t.
  4. With innovation (and change) comes opportunity for exploitation.
  5. If you believe your app/os/device is completely secure, see 1, 2, 3 and 4.
Anything that is going to let you run untrusted code on an iOS device is a brand new avenue for exploits. Yes, right now you can as a developer trust apps you publish, but it’s against the terms of use to use those mechanisms as a means to distribute apps openly, and they do actually shut down developers that openly share their profiles to like beta apps or w/e, so no one has ever really actively done pen-testing through apps that would never pass through the approval process. Because who cares about exploits that can’t be used. It doesn’t matter if you can make an app that can exploit the iPhone because Apple won’t (or at least so far hasn’t) publish it in the app Store. But sideloading changes the game. Suddenly you no longer are bound by what apple will publish, only what you can trick idiots into installing and for that, refer up to 3.

Also, to be clear, I am not saying every device is going to magically get cracked or compromised, just that it’s totally going to increase the attack surface which means it IS going to increase the number of compromised device. All the new potential exploits would either require physical access or tricking the user by embedding it in something they will download, but how many people read security prompts? How many actually listen to them?

Instead of being a strawman, let’s hear the knowledge drop? Please, enlighten me.
 
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Out of 2.5 billion android users 50,000 of them downloaded a scam app :eek: that's roughly that's 0.002% risk :rolleyes:. Apple is closing their system for 0.002% risk. What's an acceptable risk threshold 1%? it's still low.

I agree with you Apple is playing the fear card because they'd lose a lot of money mainly on subscriptions that infested the AppStore. Meanwhile great devs that want to make great FOSS apps for iOS have to pay for an Apple dev account + and a mac computer + time to code.
And that’s without considering the fact that those Android users had to validate a setting explicitly telling them side loading can introduces vulnerabilities and malwares

Also there have been numerous case of malware in disguise being approved on the AppStore
 
you wrong when u sideload apps it wont be reviewed by apple before u sideload it

Apple needs to stop being lazy then and study how Google implements it with Google Play Store using its VirusTotal technology to scan apps including sideloaded apps.

https://www.virustotal.com

Scanned Fortnite installer as example.

1643874422380.png
 
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And that’s without considering the fact that those Android users had to validate a setting explicitly telling them side loading can introduces vulnerabilities and malwares

Also there have been numerous case of malware in disguise being approved on the AppStore
Yes on Android the warning message is clear I believe Apple could make an even better implementation if sideloading is to be authorized.

Enabling-Unknown-Sources-Warning-on-Android.jpg
 
Right now your data is not safe. Let me give you an example. You download a camera or a photo editing app from the AppStore you give it permission to access your Camera and/or Photos library in order for it to function. Once you do that the app could upload your entire library to its server without your knowledge. Not only that it could take pictures or videos make them hidden and upload them to its servers. It's a legit AppStore app and malicious no virus or malware needed.

Fair point.

One good thing is that Apple can pull the app from the App Store so no one else gets bitten by it. That happens quite often, actually. And many scammy apps are stopped before they even get into the App Store. They are rejected.

But if that app was downloaded from the developer's website... nobody would be able to stop it. More people would download it... and its mysterious payload.

Now before you say "well people need to only download apps from trusted sources" or "there are tons of malware on the App store"... I hear you.

I just don't have the power to fix any of it. Apparently these lawmakers do. Good luck to them.

When will this bill be voted on? I'll get my popcorn.

:p
 
many of the so called 'anti malware' companies are spying on u for goverments etc. and creating and spreading malware by them self
I don't subscribe to the "many" "lots" and "I heard through my friend's dog" anecdotes. Either cite references or stop this. Certain political parties like to do this to obfuscate reality; lets not do that here.

In other words, I don't believe you. The exception does not define the rule. I can virtually guarantee you that if you searched for the top 10 anti-malware products, as any potential customer will do, none of those are spyware -- and on top of that no sane customer is going to say "I'll take anti-malware product #26 just because!"

But there's no substitute for user ignorance, so you could be right, but again, the exception does not define the rule.
 
And that’s without considering the fact that those Android users had to validate a setting explicitly telling them side loading can introduces vulnerabilities and malwares

Also there have been numerous case of malware in disguise being approved on the AppStore

Lets all keep in mind, all this “malware in disguise” still asked for all the permissions it abused, it was not actively exploiting anything. There is a lot of code that apple would would simply never approve, and so it’s not an attack vector that people actively research currently.

Introducing sideloading changes that.
 
Sideloading on MacOS hasn't hurt their business. People that are selectively anti-sideloading on only iOS need to accept all or nothing otherwise half yay half nay is hypocritical.
MacOS is a tiny business compared to iOS. It is also not always what actually happens that affect the stock market, but what the market _thinks_ will happen.
I've never bothered with sideloading on my Android phones, not sure I would ever consider it on my iPhone either, but just the fact that Apple looses this battle might be detrimental to their business.
 
I absolutely hate this. Who ever forced any developer to build apps for iOS? Who? Nobody. If you don’t want to, if you’re not ok with it’s core principles than don’t develop. This is absolute nonsense. Customer has options to choose now. You can choose opened OS phone and do anything with it, together with it’s flaws.
Why aren’t they forcing car manufacturers to open cars for installing any apps into cars? Where is your democracy there? We should be free to allow some lunatics to control cars in traffic by their apps.
I mean. This is nothing but attack on Apple.
 
Even if this bill don’t pass, Apple will face an armageddon of lawsuits around the world, keep watching, overall they won’t win.

Why tho? Because apple has a monopoly on apple devices and thus a defacto monopoly on all the software that they run?

iOS isn’t windows. It isn’t licensed to OEMs. It is only available as part of apple products. Why should anyone but apple be deciding what can and can’t run on apples hardware using apples software?

And it’s not like they are gonna give up the apple APIs. No one is gonna accept sideloading if they can’t for example, call any metal apis. But apple spent a TON of money developing metal api and drivers and ultimately hardware, and it is 100% their IP. So why should someone be able to use it in a sideloaded app?

If apple sold or licensed any of its arm chips or software, then I might understand. But it’s all sold as one monolithic product. The situation is completely different than pretty much every other OS of note. There is a reason apple stopped selling macOS and it’s updates. They started playing this game a long time ago.
 
Completely inaccurate.

Sideloading would still be sandboxed and can be done exceptionally safely
You make a good point.

An obvious example is on normal Macs. I can 'sideload' whatever the heck I want. Generally speaking, it can't do jack unless I provide an admin password (which you don't really have for iPhones as they're sandboxed).

Yes it would open the door for hackers to inject stuff through sideloaded apps (assuming there's already an underlying security flaw for them to exploit). However, IMO it's almost as likely that somebody will make a website that's capable of doing the same thing.

IMO the bigger concern is people sideloading pirated apps and apps that bypass Apple's QA guidelines. But... I think there's a lot of ways for devs to defeat that sorta thing (e.g. if app store apps install a unique hash on your phone in a part of your phone that's inaccessible when sideloading stuff).

Where there's a will, there is ALWAYS a way to do things 'securely'. Security is just an excuse being used by Apple to avoid doing something they don't wanna do. IMO give it a few years and all Apple gear will be completely sandboxed (for better or for worse). I don't think they're interested in making open gear that you can fiddle with. Not criticising that model BTW... think MySpace. They let people customise too many things and it just became a mess (i.e. all profiles became poorly coded [usually using some sorta auto-gen app], loaded 20 YouTube videos simultaneously [massive waste of bandwidth/memory], had CSS that destroyed your ability to see anything and glitterie animations all over everything [one word, tacky]). IMO Android's a bit like that and Apple's wise to avoid it.
 
Why? You wouldn’t want your privacy to be exposed. It is a big threat. It will open up the gates to the malware.
It would be the users choice, nobody is going to force you to sideload apps. Sure, some developers may choose only to release for sideloading, pesky open source people who do their work for free and don't have the money for yearly subscriptions. Other developers are currently locked out of releasing on the App Store, browser developers for example (in case you didn't know, 3rd party browsers currently on App Store are simply skins for WebKit), I'm sure there would be a Firefox release with the Gecko engine instead of WebKit within short order, and probably DuckDuckGo and Edge browsers as well. Microsoft could finally release their already complete xCloud app, etc.

Sure, Epic may choose to remove Fortnite from the store out of spite, but I seriously doubt it'll last long, the App Store is simply too convenient for users to go anywhere else, look at Android, sideloading has been possible on Android for ages, yet apps like Fortnite and Spotify are still on Google Play.
 
It would be the users choice, nobody is going to force you to sideload apps. Sure, some developers may choose only to release for sideloading, pesky open source people who do their work for free and don't have the money for yearly subscriptions. Other developers are currently locked out of releasing on the App Store, browser developers for example (in case you didn't know, 3rd party browsers currently on App Store are simply skins for WebKit), I'm sure there would be a Firefox release with the Gecko engine instead of WebKit within short order, and probably DuckDuckGo and Edge browsers as well. Microsoft could finally release their already complete xCloud app, etc.

Sure, Epic may choose to remove Fortnite from the store out of spite, but I seriously doubt it'll last long, the App Store is simply too convenient for users to go anywhere else, look at Android, sideloading has been possible on Android for ages, yet apps like Fortnite and Spotify are still on Google Play.

what about when your paranoid girlfriend sideloads an app on your phone? Or your boss? Or that stranger that wanted to make a call. The opportunities for physical access compromises increase massively.
 
The day this happens, the day I sell my apple products and go back to a Nokia 3310. Won’t touch android and if this secure OS is corrupted then it’s back to the 90s for me.
 
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Why tho? Because apple has a monopoly on apple devices and thus a defacto monopoly on all the software that they run?

Doesn't matter. Apple is still under the scrutiny of FTC. Apple is clearly abusing excessive control to disrupt how consumers use their device, tying Safari browser updates with OS updates, forcing 3rd party browsers to use Apple WebKit engine instead of their own (major antitrust violation), etc. They've been busted before for eBook collusion that harms consumers.

https://www.ftc.gov/about-ftc

OUR MISSION​

Protecting consumers and competition by preventing anticompetitive, deceptive, and unfair business practices through law enforcement, advocacy, and education without unduly burdening legitimate business activity.
 
It would be a great way to have privacy conscious but unsuspecting iOS users easily misled into installing honey trap ‘encrypted’ communication platforms with no oversight from Apple. This has nothing to do with benefiting consumers, of that I am 100% certain.
 
Right now your data is not safe. Let me give you an example. You download a camera or a photo editing app from the AppStore you give it permission to access your Camera and/or Photos library in order for it to function. Once you do that the app could upload your entire library to its server without your knowledge. Not only that it could take pictures or videos make them hidden and upload them to its servers. It's a legit AppStore app and malicious no virus or malware needed.
nah they cant since apple reviews the apps code. also i edit pictures on my mac not my phone
 
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Doesn't matter. Apple is still under the scrutiny of FTC. Apple is clearly abusing excessive control to disrupt how consumers use their device, tying Safari browser updates with OS updates, forcing 3rd party browsers to use Apple WebKit engine instead of their own (major antitrust violation), etc. They've been busted before for eBook collusion that harms consumers.

https://www.ftc.gov/about-ftc

OUR MISSION​

Protecting consumers and competition by preventing anticompetitive, deceptive, and unfair business practices through law enforcement, advocacy, and education without unduly burdening legitimate business activity.

All those things happened within the bounds of apple products and nothing else. Microsoft was controlling the browsers of dozens of OEMs and thus basically ALL computer users. It’s not the same. I totally get why people want it to be, but it‘s just not.
 
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