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Sideloading iOS Apps No Longer Possible on M1 Macs

jonblatho said:
Maybe you just love using software that the developer doesn’t care about, though?
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I for one prefer software the developer doesn’t care about or which isn’t supported on my platform to non-existent software.

Seoras said:
Oh, one more point. WHERE did you get that copy of that App you "already paid for"?
How can you trust the source and that it doesn't contain a trojan?
You can't. I'd caution anyone thinking that its ok to sideload to think carefully before they do so.
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isn’t that an argument against allowing any non-app store software?
ikramerica said:
Correct. Recalls are safety focused. Otherwise it’s warranty work until the warranty ends. In rare instances, a high rate of failure combined with a concerted effort to avoid addressing the defect during warranty period can result in a class action that is successful, but usually you are SOL.
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Statutory warranties are closer to what he’s asking for. Typically they cover anything advertised (including via paid promotions and so on) plus anything one would ordinarily expect from that product category (adapted to software, that might mean things like “encryption” doesn’t mean DES, not mangling files randomly, that sort of thing).

While his demands are excessive, I think there does need to be some statutory entitlement beyond “be glad we let you give us your money” (especially for software not distributed by app stores like apple’s, where the retailer offers a minimal warranty), plus some restrictions on what can be in a consumer EULA.

(the interesting part is that AIUI no one has thoroughly tested how the EU inherent implied licence to make copies in the normal course of use of a digital work applies to consumer software.)
Alan Wynn said:
lol.. this ridiculous argument still going strong after 40 years..
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I don’t like DRM, but all the commercial OS providers include it and at least pretend to try to make it work.

If it were up to me you’d have a choice of DRM or copyright but not both, if the DRM prevented anything that would be permitted by copyright law, and there’d be no anti-circumvention law.
ericwn said:
Neither Netflix nor DRM are 40 years old - what are you referring to?
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Hardware restriction dongles are getting on for 40 years old, and copy protection has been around for quite a long while too.
 
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4jasontv said:
I didn’t say Day One had issues with the app. I said they made a name for their app by adding features for free setting the expectation that was how they did business. Then they decided to start charging a subscription after they paid the app price of $15. Then they lied and said existing customers would keep everything they paid for which was a lie. Truth was, if you wanted to keep using day one as you had then you needed to subscribe.
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Day One not just added additional features further down the line they also supported their original customers to this day by offering an upscale grandfathered plan only available to those users - which to this day is being used here daily saving me from having to subscribe.

The software was cheap when it came out and they explained in great detail why they had to make the changes to subscriptions so that’s all out in the open for anyone to review.

Great company. Excellent customer service. Absolutely zero problems.

I hardly see any resemblance to real life in your post, sorry.

App developers began a brand new business on iOS. To even expect theirs to be as solid as ones that are around for much longer is unrealistic to say the least. Thank god day one made it to subscribers- they deserve every cent.
 
ericwn said:
Day One not just added additional features further down the line they also supported their original customers to this day by offering an upscale grandfathered plan only available to those users - which to this day is being used here daily saving me from having to subscribe.

The software was cheap when it came out and they explained in great detail why they had to make the changes to subscriptions so that’s all out in the open for anyone to review.

Great company. Excellent customer service. Absolutely zero problems.

I hardly see any resemblance to real life in your post, sorry.

App developers began a brand new business on iOS. To even expect theirs to be as solid as ones that are around for much longer is unrealistic to say the least. Thank god day one made it to subscribers- they deserve every cent.
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Their app was not cheap. With most apps running towards $0.99 their price was high. Was is this grandfathered plan? I’ve never seen any mention of it. Are you trying to claim the legacy plan is the same as what we originally paid for? It’s not.

The issue isn’t that they didn’t explain their behavior, but rather their behavior.
 
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Seoras said:
Oh, one more point. WHERE did you get that copy of that App you "already paid for"?
How can you trust the source and that it doesn't contain a trojan?
You can't. I'd caution anyone thinking that its ok to sideload to think carefully before they do so.
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The easiest way to get the apps to sideload is by using an older version of iTunes or by using Apple Configurator. These apps come directly from Apple and they are signed and only able to be downloaded if the user has already purchased the app. There's nothing suspect about getting apps that way.
 
4jasontv said:
Their app was not cheap. With most apps running towards $0.99 their price was high. Was is this grandfathered plan? I’ve never seen any mention of it. Are you trying to claim the legacy plan is the same as what we originally paid for? It’s not.

The issue isn’t that they didn’t explain their behavior, but rather their behavior.
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I just checked - I am running the Plus plan which costs me nothing. That plan is not available to new customers at all and was exclusively for the existing supporters - maybe up to a certain time of joining- not information that I have.

Again I get almost all benefits of the paid plan and have never had to fall back to basic or get the subscription.

On top of that the few email interactions I have had with them were nothing short of really good experiences.

It’s an essential app to me that I’ve been using for almost a decade. I am toying with the idea of writing more on macOS again which will bring me to swap to premium though - my free plan doesn’t include the Mac version I believe.
 
ericwn said:
Day One not just added additional features further down the line they also supported their original customers to this day by offering an upscale grandfathered plan only available to those users - which to this day is being used here daily saving me from having to subscribe.
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Exactly. I don't know how someone who owns the app couldn't know this. It sounds like the person doesn't own the app and is pulling examples from their backside to further whatever agenda they have in this thread.

Some developers are already creating universal apps that run on iOS and Mac. Moog Music's Model 15 has always been an iOS app. A couple of days ago, they updated it and said it was now a universal binary that runs on iOS and macOS. I went to the store, and there it was on the Mac side of things (not in the iOS tab) and showing that I had already purchased it. There's a perfect example of a developer who extended it to multiple platforms without making anyone pay for it again.

I do know for a fact that some developers were getting frustrated because people were sideloading apps onto their Macs. When they didn't work, they were contacting the developer's support complaining. Then the developer had to take time out of their busy day to respond and say, "It doesn't work because we don't support it on that platform, idiot." Maybe there was a bit of pressure from developers because of an influx of stupidity from customers.
 
ericwn said:
I just checked - I am running the Plus plan which costs me nothing. That plan is not available to new customers at all and was exclusively for the existing supporters - maybe up to a certain time of joining- not information that I have.

Again I get almost all benefits of the paid plan and have never had to fall back to basic or get the subscription.

On top of that the few email interactions I have had with them were nothing short of really good experiences.

It’s an essential app to me that I’ve been using for almost a decade. I am toying with the idea of writing more on macOS again which will bring me to swap to premium though - my free plan doesn’t include the Mac version I believe.
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Limited time access to get what I paid for? That doesn't sound better at all. Had I know I could continue to use the app without paying the fee I would have, but they made it sound like I was losing the free added features.

redcaptrickster said:
Exactly. I don't know how someone who owns the app couldn't know this. It sounds like the person doesn't own the app and is pulling examples from their backside to further whatever agenda they have in this thread.

Some developers are already creating universal apps that run on iOS and Mac. Moog Music's Model 15 has always been an iOS app. A couple of days ago, they updated it and said it was now a universal binary that runs on iOS and macOS. I went to the store, and there it was on the Mac side of things (not in the iOS tab) and showing that I had already purchased it. There's a perfect example of a developer who extended it to multiple platforms without making anyone pay for it again.

I do know for a fact that some developers were getting frustrated because people were sideloading apps onto their Macs. When they didn't work, they were contacting the developer's support complaining. Then the developer had to take time out of their busy day to respond and say, "It doesn't work because we don't support it on that platform, idiot." Maybe there was a bit of pressure from developers because of an influx of stupidity from customers.
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The legacy plan, as described on their website does not include free feature updates as was originally offered. Therefore they don't support the original app but a revised legacy subscription. It's a huge difference. I paid the premium price and lost the biggest selling point of the app.
 
ericwn said:
Older than Netflix and old enough to have seen the iTunes Store bring one of the first DRMs to mass market.

Now back to the question and set the belittle tone aside for once.
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the reason I ask is so I can frame references that you might actually be familiar with. you seem to be missing some information. :)
 
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4743913 said:
the reason I ask is because based on your comments, it would appear that you haven't a clue as to what you are discussing. so I ask your age so I can frame references that you might actually be familiar with. quit embarassing yourself and answer the question. :)
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It is most telling that you are unable to answer a request for a bit more context as you jungled with Netflix and DRM in a four decade scenario.

Are you able to talk sense or will you deliver yet another round of ad hominem nonsense?
 
Forgive me folks if this has already been answered previously, does apps that have already been side loaded still work following installing the beta of Bigsur 11.2 beta / release candidate? I get that its not going to be an option to side load new apps going forward but will the apps that I have already side loaded still work? I got this M1 air to replace my iPad Pro and have already side loaded all of the apps that I would want from my iPad. As long as they will still work lol
 
4743913 said:
what are you talking about. no such thing as DRM before iTunes invented it. :)

what do you mean netflix is dvd only
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I didn’t claim iTunes invented it. Read again.

And Netflix isn’t 40 years old either.

But sure if you want to continue discussing your definitions of drm - have at it.
 
4jasontv said:
The legacy plan, as described on their website does not include free feature updates as was originally offered. Therefore they don't support the original app but a revised legacy subscription. It's a huge difference. I paid the premium price and lost the biggest selling point of the app.
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The world turns, things change, and (most) people adjust.

 
Philip_S said:
DRM. If you can load up, say, Netflix you could record your screen and audio.
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As opposed to loading up Netflix in a browser? The argument that content DRM + *screen recording* is the reason for restricting what apps can run on a mac is just silly
 
svanstrom said:
Before the tries to claim what I listed wasn't what he was talking about as DRM I'll just add this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdistribution
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There was the fight against the home VCR, macrovision, the long delay in consumer DAT, dual deck VCRs, DVD-R video decks, crippling of DVD/VCR combo decks, etc.

Copy protection, lawsuits, innovation suppression, etc predate the digital media age but it’s all the same game.
 
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TheWatchfulOne said:
Nobody is defending Apple "no matter what they do." And this story isn't about Apple locking anything down. This is about Apple allowing developers to make their iOS apps unavailable on the Mac when said apps are not compatible with the Mac. Because if an app is incompatible with the Mac, and the developer has no way to implement and test Mac support, it should be 100% within the developers' right and ability to make it unavailable on the Mac.
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Stop. It's not in developers' hands to lock our PCs from apps from unofficial sources and it never has been. If they don't like it then don't let the files leak.
 
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bwillwall said:
Stop. It's not in developers' hands to lock our PCs from apps from unofficial sources and it never has been. If they don't like it then don't let the files leak.
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Who is stopping your computer from getting apps from "unofficial" sources? Nobody as far as I can tell. You can get apps from the App Store, or you can get them from the developer's website if that's an option. But that's not what this topic is about.

This is about developers disallowing their apps to run on unsupported hardware.
 
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ikramerica said:
There was the fight against the home VCR, macrovision, the long delay in consumer DAT, dual deck VCRs, DVD-R video decks, crippling of DVD/VCR combo decks, etc.

Copy protection, lawsuits, innovation suppression, etc predate the digital media age but it’s all the same game.
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The intent behind copy protection hasn’t changed but of course the approaches from back then are way different to DRM systems.
 
ericwn said:
The intent behind copy protection hasn’t changed but of course the approaches from back then are way different to DRM systems.
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DRM literally stands for digital rights management, of which protecting against unauthorised copying is just one thing; so why are you talking about "different to DRM systems" as if a "DRM system" is anything special beyond what it literally means in plain English?
 
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TheWatchfulOne said:
Who is stopping your computer from getting apps from "unofficial" sources? Nobody as far as I can tell. You can get apps from the App Store, or you can get them from the developer's website if that's an option. But that's not what this topic is about.

This is about developers disallowing their apps to run on unsupported hardware.
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Why is that the right of the developer? Would you support an author deciding where you can read a book?
 
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