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Sierra re-download, how? (now High Sierra is just released, it's impossible!)

jimthing said:
If someone wants a copy of the last 10.12.6 Sierra installer, just realised that I still have the full 5.03GB Sierra installer in my applications (now copied to desktop!). Anywhere I can upload it...?

Sure this does NOT solve the direct download issue from Apple, but may help others around here wanting it in the meantime...
Click to expand...
I guess not then.
____________
I sent a couple of Support Feedback's to Apple, here:
https://www.apple.com/feedback (linked to from clicking "Support Feedback" on here: https://www.apple.com/uk/contact )
--------------
Users cannot redownload Sierra 10.12 form the Mac App Store, due to Apple policy to NOT include the previous download in our "Purchased" section. Also, Apple have NOT supplied a support article to enable users to do so, either.

Users still need previous versions of macOS for various technical reasons.

We urgently need a NEW Apple support article, with a hidden link to Sierra 10.12 in the Mac App Store. Just as we have a previous article for El Capitan, here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT206886

Here is just one of many examples of a forum of experienced technical users, who are fed-up dealing with AppleCare on this issue:
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ierra-is-just-released-its-impossible.2072140

Regards.
--------------

Probably get absolutely nowhere, but what the heck. :-(
 
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Also, emailed MR staff for a story idea:
--------------
Unlike previous versions of macOS (that appear in users "Purchased" tab in the Mac App Store, provided the user previously downloaded a copy), there is now absolutely no method for Sierra 10.12 to be re-downloaded again by users using this method.

Furthermore, one Apple support article (https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201272 ) says this:
"macOS Sierra or later doesn't appear in the Purchased tab. [...]".

Apple are no longer tying the download of the OS (from Sierra onwards) to users Apple ID's, but are also seemingly removing any method of downloading older OS versions (from Sierra onwards) at the same time??

A support article for the previous El Capital contained a hidden link to the MAS (it is *not* available via searching the MAS directly), which allows it to be (re)downloaded:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT206886

But nothing of the same exists for Sierra, which has vanished, with Apple not even acknowledging the issue when users contact them. AppleCare are clueless, and the "reportaproblem.apple.com" staff have no information, and send users back to AppleCare again!

A good article for MR, I'd suspect, given many users need various older versions of Mac operating systems for testing, VM, etc. uses.

Here's a forum link too:
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ierra-is-just-released-its-impossible.2072140

Thanks!
--------------

Apple are being a right pain in the backside here.
 
jimthing said:
Furthermore, one Apple support article (https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201272 ) says this:
"macOS Sierra or later doesn't appear in the Purchased tab. [...]".
Click to expand...

I missed that - thanks.

I suspect that article hasn't been updated since the release of High Sierra. Or, if Apple is assuming that nobody would want or need to re-install Sierra, then they're insane or incompetent or both.

I spoke with a "Senior Advisor" just a few minutes ago. She said Sierra will "more than likely" be available in the "Purchased" list in the future, but she was just guessing.
 
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I think the only way to deal with this in the future is any time you download macOS immediately upload it somewhere too. Then you will always be able to redownload it in the future too regardless of what apple do.
 
tywebb13 said:
I think the only way to deal with this in the future is any time you download macOS immediately upload it somewhere too. Then you will always be able to redownload it in the future too regardless of what apple do.
Click to expand...

Yes, of course! I almost always save the Mac OS installers, but forgot this time.
 
jimthing said:
If someone wants a copy of the last 10.12.6 Sierra installer, just realised that I still have the full 5.03GB Sierra installer in my applications (now copied to desktop!). Anywhere I can upload it...?

Sure this does NOT solve the direct download issue from Apple, but may help others around here wanting it in the meantime...
Click to expand...
Ok can I make a Multi boot install external hard drive
 
...and we continue...

So the previous AppleCare 'difficult' Senior Advisor I was dealing with (Ricardo Bernardino) phoned me back today. He said he spoke to a "Brian" in "iTunes Store Customer Support" team, who said he is working to "add Sierra back to my Purchased tab in the MAS".

I asked how this is going to be possible just for me, given Apple are not allowing this for Sierra onwards according to the recently updated Support Article (https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201272 – saying quite clearly "macOS Sierra or later doesn't appear in the Purchased tab. [...]"), and he basically said he didn't know, and blathered on about Internet Recovery mode and other unrelated-to-solving-the-issue stuff, as they always do.

I also made it clear, AGAIN, that this Sierra installer is not there for EVERYBODY (not just me)... so them magically adding it back just for me isn't really the resolution to the underlying problem. His response was he was here to help me, and everyone else can contact AppleCare themselves if they need to! (so rather than just fixing it for everyone, he really expects me to believe I am going to get some extra special treatment from the iTunes Stores team, and have it magically reappear in just my MAS Purchased list!)

In the meantime, I previously signed-in to the https://reportaproblem.apple.com website and found Sierra in my previous downloads list (only last 90 days, and it's only a list, so you cannot re-download them from there!), and reported the issue there. See the truly bull-shitus response below (the bold is the important non-guff parts!):
Hi,

Thanks for contacting us. I understand that you’re having issues downloading your MacOS. I know how important it is to have this addressed. Let me look into this for you and provide you relevant information.

After carefully reviewing this for you, I have verified that you were able to download it successful. You won’t be seeing it on your Purchase Page because it’s a software and not an application.

To set your expectations right, your request for help has reached the iTunes Store Customer Support Team. I'm able to address billing, account, download, and content questions related to the iTunes Store.

For further assistance, I need you to contact our technical support team online. They have expertise with this type of issue.

Please see this page to find the right number for your location:

Contact Apple for support and service
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201232

Or you may call this number:
United Kingdom
0800 107 6285

For other Technical Support options, go to:
https://getsupport.apple.com

Choose Mac > Installations & Updates

Thanks for you patience and kind understanding regarding this matter.

I trust that this information gets you pointed in the right direction. If you have any other questions about your iTunes account, don’t hesitate to get back in touch. I’ll be happy to help in any way that I can.

Thanks,

Abegail
iTunes Store Customer Support
http://www.apple.com/support/itunes/ww
Click to expand...

So firstly, Abegail is already in "iTunes Store Customer Support", as per the Brian that Ricardo I previously mentioned is saying will magically fix my problem. Secondly, she has no clue about the issue palming me off with "because it’s a software and not an application" – perhaps the dumbest comment I've truly ever heard. Thirdly, she's sending me back to Technical Support, the very people who sent me to her at the stores team via https://reportaproblem.apple.com in the first place!

This is a typical example of two things:

1) Meaningless 'quota-filling responses' – i.e. 'I don't know how or cannot be bothered to investigate your problem further. So instead, I'll make up some BS answer to the customer, so at least it looks like I've answered the question to fulfil my 'responses quota' so my manager will see I'm doing some work'.

2) 'Passing-the-buck to someone else syndrome' – i.e. "Tech" send the customer to "Stores"; "Stores" send the customer to "Tech". And around and around we go, with no one taking ownership of the issue.

Ricardo even had the cheek to tell me, in somewhat broken English, 'Sir, I am working to be with you until the end of solving this issue', and to contact him back in 48 hours if this Brian guy hasn't fixed it –which I know in advance Brian won't be able to do, despite Ricardo attempting to say Brian magically will!

And then no doubt Ricardo will do the standard line of 'I have done the best I can for you, sorry I cannot help any further. Oh, and can you fill out this Customer Survey about how good I was in helping you, thanks!'

– translated, that means:
'I wasted your time by telling you a load of things I knew wouldn't work to fill my hours chart this week. Now can you tell me how wonderful I am on this webform, so management can then make statistics that make it seem like their customer service is absolutely brilliant'.
...Erm, no Ricardo, surprisingly I can't waste my ****ing time making you and your managers look good. Pîss off!

Aaaarrgh!
 
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"it's a software and not an application"

That's priceless!!! Coming from a "support" person no less.

This just proves once again, that no matter what your issue is, support, regardless which company - have no clue what they're talking about. They're just going through a list of things (probably stamped somewhere on their desk), useless for the most part and totally unrelated to the issue in question. The very few times I had to call "support" I ended up more frustrated than before picking up the phone. :rolleyes:
 
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jimthing said:
Also, emailed MR staff for a story idea:
--------------
Unlike previous versions of macOS (that appear in users "Purchased" tab in the Mac App Store, provided the user previously downloaded a copy), there is now absolutely no method for Sierra 10.12 to be re-downloaded again by users using this method.

Furthermore, one Apple support article (https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201272 ) says this:
"macOS Sierra or later doesn't appear in the Purchased tab. [...]".

Apple are no longer tying the download of the OS (from Sierra onwards) to users Apple ID's, but are also seemingly removing any method of downloading older OS versions (from Sierra onwards) at the same time??

A support article for the previous El Capital contained a hidden link to the MAS (it is *not* available via searching the MAS directly), which allows it to be (re)downloaded:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT206886

But nothing of the same exists for Sierra, which has vanished, with Apple not even acknowledging the issue when users contact them. AppleCare are clueless, and the "reportaproblem.apple.com" staff have no information, and send users back to AppleCare again!

A good article for MR, I'd suspect, given many users need various older versions of Mac operating systems for testing, VM, etc. uses.

Here's a forum link too:
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ierra-is-just-released-its-impossible.2072140

Thanks!
--------------

Apple are being a right pain in the backside here.
Click to expand...

Bingo!...

macOS Sierra and Later Not Listed in Mac App Store Purchased Tab, Updates Not Tied to Apple ID
 
...more...

Now I have an email from Senior Advisor "Angela" from iTunes Store:
Dear J,

My name is Angela, I’m a Senior Advisor with the iTunes Store. Your case came across my desk, and I wanted to make sure we did everything we could to help.

Going over your case, I see that you’re not able to install “macOS Sierra” because it does not appear in the purchased section of your Apple ID. I also understand that Technical Support has referred you to us. I know that you would like this resolved so you can update your computer, and I will be happy to guide you to a resolution.

As additional updates to the Mac’s operating systems happen, previous updates will no longer appear in the purchased section or the Mac App Store. This may be why Technical Support referred you to iTunes, to check and see if it’s still available in the Mac App Store.

Concerning Maverick, Yosemite and El Capitan, if you were to check the Mac App Store, you will see that it’s no longer available. However, if this is the highest operating system your computer can update to, this could be the reason the update is appearing in the purchased section.

You will need to get back in touch with our Technical Support Team. I apologize, because I know that you feel like you’re getting past along, but the iTunes Store only deals with billing issues when it comes to Mac applications. Our Technical Support Team is a specialized team who handles Mac updates.

When contacting them, I would advise you to ask to speak with a Senior Advisor. When transferred to them, please provide Case ID 100302968929, as I’ve left detailed notes. I’ve provided you with their phone number below:

0800 107 6285

You can also find troubleshooting tips, how-to articles, and moderated discussion forums on our support website:
http://www.apple.com/support

These resources are free of charge and available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Thank you for your understanding in this matter, but please don’t hesitate to reply back to my email if you have any billing or account questions.

Have a great day!

Sincerely,

Angela
iTunes Store Customer Support

Senior Advisor

http://www.apple.com/support/itunes/ww/
Click to expand...
Wrong answer!

Really, that's your answer, is it Angela? And the point of your email is what exactly? ...but to do exactly the wrong thing you say on the very email you write, by sending me right back to clueless Ricardo in "Tech" again.

TAKE OWNERSHIP OF THE ISSUE – and get the customer the answer.

As so-called SENIOR ADVISOR's –both Ricardo (in "Tech") and Angela (in "Stores")– you have no clue on customer service whatsoever. You do not make the customer chase the issue between staff members in differing depts/teams, but rather you take the issue on yourself, and get the problem answered internally.
[doublepost=1506535099][/doublepost]...more...
I wrote:
Angela,

Read this brief news article (and perhaps the attached forum too):
macOS Sierra and Later Not Listed in Mac App Store Purchased Tab, Updates Not Tied to Apple ID

Hence, it's nothing to do with MY account specifically, but rather it's to do with EVERYONE's accounts.

No explanations from Apple concerning this change. No support article or press release about it either; nothing.

Even you don't even know about it, and yet you're supposed to be Stores Customer Support guiding customers issues... quite mind boggling.

Regards.
Click to expand...

Angela wrote:
Hi,

It’s good to hear back from you.

Concerning “macOS Sierra”, it will not appear in the purchased section because it’s no longer available in the Mac App Store. In order to re-download, the update will need to be in the store. However, I will escalate your case with my Engineer Team to have this confirmed, as well as find out if “Mac OS High Sierra” can no longer be downloaded using the purchased section like previous versions.

I will contact you once I have more information. Thank you for your patience in this matter.

Sincerely,

Angela
iTunes Store Customer Support

Senior Advisor

http://www.apple.com/support/itunes/ww/
Click to expand...

So just like Ricardo, she's also doing the same old thing, saying it's 'being escalated to Engineering'.

Let me guess the answer here... none?
 
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I have a macOS Sierra Installer (downloaded December 3rd 2016) if anybody wants it uploaded somewhere. As people said, these installers have 'expiration date' so they won't work indefinitely.

Interesting thing is, that 10.9-10.11 installers have normal icons under High Sierra, but 10.12 installer has overalay suggesting it's incompatible with the OS. I'll upload screenshot once I get home.
 
BasicGreatGuy said:
I got a reply to my email to Tim Cook. They requested I call them back on their direct phone number. I am still at work and will be calling them shortly. Very pleased that they want to address my concerns. Will post back later on with what they say.
Click to expand...

Points:
1) Send them to this forum, if they try to say no one needs/wants access to Sierra anymore. :)

2) Why are there no support articles explaining why Sierra is not remaining available?

3) Unlike El Capitan, why is there no support article giving a hidden MAS link?

...erm, and anything else poignant that's worth asking. :)

TBH, I doubt this is going to be anyone better than the 'normal' crap Senior Advisor 'tech team' staff, we've already learnt always try and ignore the actual question asked to them.
But we'll see.
 
jimthing said:
Points:
1) Send them to this forum, if they try to say no one needs/wants access to Sierra anymore. :)

2) Why are there no support articles explaining why Sierra is not remaining available?

3) Unlike El Capitan, why is there no support article giving a hidden MAS link?

...erm, and anything else poignant that's worth asking. :)

TBH, I doubt this is going to be anyone better than the 'normal' crap Senior Advisor 'tech team' staff, we've already learnt always try and ignore the actual question asked to them.
But we'll see.
Click to expand...
I called back and got voicemail. Waiting on a call back to me. The person that got in contact with me is from Executive Relations from Tim Cook's office.

I will definitely ask why there has been no official support article, as well as hidden MAS link etc.
[doublepost=1506716455][/doublepost]I just got a call back. From what was said to me, it seems that my email has struck a chord with the upper tier level from Tim Cooks office, and that is the reason for contacting me. The upper tier level wanted to hear directly from me and I was told that they will be discussing the MAS situation for the reasons I stated in my email. I also made a point to mention that developers need and work with older OS' as well. I did ask if this person knew why Sierra was silently removed. The person replied that they did not know. I was told more than once, that they are taking what I said in my email very seriously and would be discussing amongst their staff. I asked if I would be getting a call back or contact about this matter again, and was told not likely. The person I spoke with made a point to say that they can't guarantee anything. I said spending over 3k on a computer that I cannot download the OS that came with it is rather ridiculous. I also said that a hidden MAS link should be available for those who have already purchased a Mac that came with Sierra.

Maybe something good will come from this.

Edited to add: I was asked about High Sierra. I let this person know, that High Sierra is having slow boot times.
 
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BasicGreatGuy said:
I called back and got voicemail. Waiting on a call back to me. The person that got in contact with me is from Executive Relations from Tim Cook's office.

I will definitely ask why there has been no official support article, as well as hidden MAS link etc.
[doublepost=1506716455][/doublepost]I just got a call back. From what was said to me, it seems that my email has struck a chord with the upper tier level from Tim Cooks office, and that is the reason for contacting me. The upper tier level wanted to hear directly from me and I was told that they will be discussing the MAS situation for the reasons I stated in my email. I also made a point to mention that developers need and work with older OS' as well. I did ask if this person knew why Sierra was silently removed. The person replied that they did not know. I was told more than once, that they are taking what I said in my email very seriously and would be discussing amongst their staff. I asked if I would be getting a call back or contact about this matter again, and was told not likely. The person I spoke with made a point to say that they can't guarantee anything. I said spending over 3k on a computer that I cannot download the OS that came with it is rather ridiculous. I also said that a hidden MAS link should be available for those who have already purchased a Mac that came with Sierra.

Maybe something good will come from this.

Edited to add: I was asked about High Sierra. I let this person know, that High Sierra is having slow boot times.
Click to expand...
Well done on getting that far. I think they may do a support article(s) explaining why it's not in the MAS (though it'll likely be non-specific on details, one suspects), but I still doubt they'll release it (hidden or otherwise) back in the MAS.

I get the strong feeling they are moving towards iOS-type releasing, where they stop signing old versions soon after they release the new version – making going backwards in OS impossible. We kind of know this already, as old MAS downloads of Sierra installer are often not working unless the file is manipulated to make it do so.

It's a classic example –one of many– of why users are advised not to upgrade until a few weeks or even months after the initial release of a new OS (especially macOS, and at least partially for iOS), and only when one has checked at least your more important software has been made compatible, and the OS has had time to settle down with the worst bugs being addressed or fixed.

Trouble is, does this model of releasing work with desktop OS's, and the much more complicated software compatibility issues such users face? Personally, I don't think it ever can under the current circumstances, as people often use desktop OS's with very esoteric software uses – think both STEM and arts/humanities subject matter.

Yes, sure we know iOS is gaining traction in these spheres sometimes, but not for the highly serious and heavy manipulation needs high-end software offers. I couldn't imagine doing multiple separate unrelated tasks on an iOS device without going nuts (hence 2 5K's and a MBP screen, haha!), and I don't even work with such super high-end software!
 
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I just received a call from Tim Cook. I related to him that I would be having Siri transcribe our conversation and he agreed:

Me: Siri, please transcribe my conversation with Tim Cook.

Siri: What up, G? Damn straight, you MUST be an OG - conversatin' wit Tim Cook? Sheeuht... fo SHIZZLE! Aight -

Tim Cook be sayin': Shiiiiit, maaaaan. That honky muf' be messin' mah old lady... got to be runnin' cold upside down his head, you know?

You be sayin': Hey home', I can dig it. Know ain't gonna lay no mo' big rap up on you, man!

Tim Cook be sayin': I say hey, sky... subba say I wan' see...

You be sayin': Uh-huh.

Tim Cook be sayin': ...pray to J I did the same-ol', same-ol'!

You be sayin': Hey... knock a self a pro, Slick! That gray matter backlot perform us DOWN, I take TCB-in', man!

Tim Cook be sayin': Hey, you know what they say: see a broad to get dat booty yak 'em...

You be sayin': ...leg 'er down a smack 'em yak 'em!

Tim Cook be sayin': COL' got to be! Y'know? Shiiiiit.

I had my device in Airplane mode, with Siri Jive activated. Based on Tim's clear instructions, I was able to download a copy of Sierra with no issues. Thank you, Apple!
 
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jimthing said:
We know that. But it's not the point of the thread.
Click to expand...

I was replying to his comment "I said spending over 3k on a computer that I cannot download the OS that came with it is rather ridiculous."

Which is entirely false, you just need to use Recovery Mode instead.
 
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xWhiplash said:
Um, you use Internet Recovery if your system came with Sierra.
Click to expand...

My Mac did not come with Sierra, but I don't want High Sierra due to not fully trusting APFS right now. Plus, I'm getting glitchy icons on my Mac Pro since I don't have a high dpi monitor.
 
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Jayson A said:
My Mac did not come with Sierra, but I don't want High Sierra due to not fully trusting APFS right now. Plus, I'm getting glitchy icons on my Mac Pro since I don't have a high dpi monitor.
Click to expand...

Why did you upgrade without testing it first or making a clone/image or any kind of proper backup?
 
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