Simple. Game over.

[Don't panic]

I actually thought you were one of the hunters since you you were so quiet (for "Don't Panic") this game.

Based on what eldiablojoe let slip, one of the hunters was ravenvii, moyank, or ibro. I myself was assuming Ravenvii was the hunter that was doing well.


Note - I had a plan when I was twisting Jav's words that he would kill me at night. I was assuming that we were down to one hunter and eldiablojoe was protected the previous night (meaning he couldn't be protected that night). I made sure that everyone knew we started out with two hunters to give the impression that eldilojoe would be protected that night. I then tried to give the WS a reason to go after me by provoking Jav. My thanks to the hunter if the attack was against me that night.

actually there is a reason for my slowed-down rate of response (other than a lot of work): I was playing a game-within-a-game, and there is a puzzle (of sorts) hidden in my posts for whoever cares to look for it (relatively easy once you know it's there). This caused me to pause and think more about what to write and how to write it.
so if you found my posts occasionally odder than usual, that's why.

besides, when you have been in werewolving as as long as I have, you'll know that before any new post can be developed it has to be properly researched

 

[Plutonius]

What's your point? You pick one word in my in my post and write three sentences about it?

I was trying to support you by saying that you didn't quit the game.

Even if this was a normal game, you would have had an impossible time since you and Jav had to work together without appearing different from your other games. In retrospect, it might have been better to start going after each other.

 

[jav6454]

I don't think you deserve the hate and I think you did a good job as host of the game. I don't understand why aggie and jav are angry with you.

I'm not mad with him. I just didn't like the intervening in "eldiablojo" questions and the fact that wolf/hunter numbers were not known until later into the game.

Quitting any game once you agree to play is not good (especially when you effect so many other players).

I had huge issues with the game you ran (especially when you screwed up the priest question) but I toughed it out till I was killed (and without complaining).

I honestly don't know why you couldn't have stayed through one more turn. You could have then left on good turns and have avoided any future Appleguy games.

I left in good terms. I didn't make much drama. I just stated I quit simple. I toughed out the Hunter numbers unknown and also the extra unexpected wolf. No offense nies, you were awesome in your role. I just knew this game was going to be too tough, as in beyond hope. I was convinced I could swing eldiablojo to reveal the hunters, but I was beaten to the punch. Something I did not appreciate. I was also convinced that we could defeat enough villagers. However that also fell threw with excess hunters. Not even the first iterations of the complex game carried two WW hunters... It was always one regardless if it was 10 or 25 players.

I tried riding it out in my sorta anger, but after you caught up on my displeasure it was obvious was going to be picked. Hell, I was already being looked upon.

Also, even though the question was messed up, the answer was still the same, hence the game did not change. Also, the peopl who said game gods interving and gave an example of them killing three players, I was the one who did that. If you recall there was an inactivity rule that everyone agreed and knew BEFORE THE GAME started. Hence when I killed them, I was expecting no one to be shocked.

 

[appleguy123]

I'm not mad with him. I just didn't like the intervening in "eldiablojo" questions and the fact that wolf/hunter numbers were not known until later into the game.



I left in good terms. I didn't make much drama. I just stated I quit simple. I toughed out the Hunter numbers unknown and also the extra unexpected wolf. No offense nies, you were awesome in your role. I just knew this game was going to be too tough, as in beyond hope. I was convinced I could swing eldiablojo to reveal the hunters, but I was beaten to the punch. Something I did not appreciate. I was also convinced that we could defeat enough villagers. However that also fell threw with excess hunters. Not even the first iterations of the complex game carried two WW hunters... It was always one regardless if it was 10 or 25 players.

I tried riding it out in my sorta anger, but after you caught up on my displeasure it was obvious was going to be picked. Hell, I was already being looked upon.

Also, even though the question was messed up, the answer was still the same, hence the game did not change. Also, the peopl who said game gods interving and gave an example of them killing three players, I was the one who did that. If you recall there was an inactivity rule that everyone agreed and knew BEFORE THE GAME started. Hence when I killed them, I was expecting no one to be shocked.

When we had a lot of players, there were always two hunters...
I'm in a rush, but here's the first thread I found to prove that there were 2 hunters. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1047575/

 

[-aggie-]

When we had a lot of players, there were always two hunters...
I'm in a rush, but here's the first thread I found to prove that there were 2 hunters. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1047575/

Can you tell us who were the specials now?

 

[Eldiablojoe]

I'm not mad with him. I just didn't like the intervening in "eldiablojo" questions and the fact that wolf/hunter numbers were not known until later into the game.

Sorry, I sometimes ask too many questions.

I was convinced I could swing eldiablojo to reveal the hunters, but I was beaten to

How? And How, exactly? I'm not sure I follow.

 

[Don't panic]

I'm not mad with him. I just didn't like the intervening in "eldiablojo" questions and the fact that wolf/hunter numbers were not known until later into the game.

I left in good terms. I didn't make much drama. I just stated I quit simple. I toughed out the Hunter numbers unknown and also the extra unexpected wolf. No offense nies, you were awesome in your role. I just knew this game was going to be too tough, as in beyond hope. I was convinced I could swing eldiablojo to reveal the hunters, but I was beaten to the punch. Something I did not appreciate. I was also convinced that we could defeat enough villagers. However that also fell threw with excess hunters. Not even the first iterations of the complex game carried two WW hunters... It was always one regardless if it was 10 or 25 players.

I tried riding it out in my sorta anger, but after you caught up on my displeasure it was obvious was going to be picked. Hell, I was already being looked upon.
d.

Sorry, but these are plainly wrong.
the number of hunter/wolves was discussed before the game, clearly stated at the beginning of the game and repeated multiple time during the game as already outlined in post 399: see posts 81-88 (discussion), post 105 (just before the game started) and again post 171 (early during game), plus various post from other people and more discussion of it 316-322.
I mean, even without a babel fish stuck in one's ear this seem pretty unequivocal (post 105):

I'm going to close sign-ups at the end of the day.
When do you want to start? Day and time that is best for y'all.
There will be 3 wolves, unless you are opposed to it. 2 hunters, w/o instakill ability but with 1x immunities. 1 seer.

So even though i agree that the OP could have been written more clearly from the beginning, it is just patently false that the hunters were added later in the game or that the number of wolf/hunters was not well established.
same with the assertion we never had two hunters before, since that happened on several occasions.
Finally honestly i find hard to believe that you didn't know there were three wolves from the beginning, since you were a wolf yourself.
Plus, give eldiablo some credit, he is clearly a good player: he was not going to give you the hunters, he was just asking whether to clear the villagers or not was a sound move at the time

also note this exchange:
post 87:

Yup 2 hunters 1 seer and three wolves sounds good. We now have 15 signed up.

post 88:

I demand -aggie- and I are the wolves. I want to experiment ripping you all to pieces again with my pal -aggie- like old times.

 

[jav6454]

I rarely if ever look at anything but the OP. I assume it's the OP with the most up to date information. So if the OP had no info of this I assumed one. If you notice my lack of pre game participation leads credibility to this argument. I am of those that just needs to read the rules to get a general sense.


Oh I forgot to state. I wasn't expecting me and -aggie- to be the wolves.

Also, two hunters were when we had vampires along. I'll even clarify the two distinct hunters became two general hunters in the end. However you had he vampire element to balance it out.

As per eldiablojo, I had my methods just in every game. See below:

 

[-aggie-]

Sorry, but these are plainly wrong.
the number of hunter/wolves was discussed before the game, clearly stated at the beginning of the game and repeated multiple time during the game as already outlined in post 399: see posts 81-88 (discussion), post 105 (just before the game started) and again post 171 (early during game), plus various post from other people and more discussion of it 316-322.
I mean, even without a babel fish stuck in one's ear this seem pretty unequivocal (post 105):

So even though i agree that the OP could have been written more clearly from the beginning, it is just patently false that the hunters were added later in the game or that the number of wolf/hunters was not well established.
same with the assertion we never had two hunters before, since that happened on several occasions.
Finally honestly i find hard to believe that you didn't know there were three wolves from the beginning, since you were a wolf yourself.
Plus, give eldiablo some credit, he is clearly a good player: he was not going to give you the hunters, he was just asking whether to clear the villagers or not was a sound move at the time

also note this exchange:
post 87:

post 88:

You must just like to type. The ONLY post that stated this was 105. Everything else was just talking about it. You may enjoy reading through a hundred posts, but some of us just read the OP or may read parts of the discussion. The last I'd heard (see MY post 82) the only thing clear was how many wolves there would be. At any rate, it doesn't matter. For me, I did not realize there were two hunters until after the game started (I even asked are there two hunters when someone stated there were two AFTER we started). With that new info, I knew then we'd have a hard time playing this game, and we did. The only reason the rest of you think it's cool is because you were villagers.

BTW, there are some behind the scenes stuff you guys don't know about. I don't know whether to believe any of what I've heard or not, so I'll leave it at that.

 

[Eldiablojoe]

As per eldiablojo, I had my methods just in every game. See below:

Water Boarding FTW!

 

[Don't panic]

You must just like to type. The ONLY post that stated this was 105. Everything else was just talking about it. You may enjoy reading through a hundred posts, but some of us just read the OP or may read parts of the discussion. The last I'd heard (see MY post 82) the only thing clear was how many wolves there would be. At any rate, it doesn't matter. For me, I did not realize there were two hunters until after the game started (I even asked are there two hunters when someone stated there were two AFTER we started). With that new info, I knew then we'd have a hard time playing this game, and we did. The only reason the rest of you think it's cool is because you were villagers.

BTW, there are some behind the scenes stuff you guys don't know about. I don't know whether to believe any of what I've heard or not, so I'll leave it at that.

i don't necessarily think it's cool. in fact, i agree that they were too much, especially with the immunity. in hindsight, one should have been enough, and/or we should have had 4 wolves, or 2 wolves +infection (so nobody is cleared from early on for the entire duration of the game. but that's hindsight for you.

but that was not the point of my post or jav's. my point was that it simply it is not true that the number of wolves/hunter 'changed' during the game, it didn't: it was the same from the beginning and discussed in times when both you and jav were actively posting and participating (indeed, in post 93 you suggested that 3 wolves were too many). so there is no point in acting surprised about it.

and in terms of balance, if you caught a couple of lucky breaks (eldiablo not finding nies early on, the hunters not luckying out in alternating in the seer protection, the timing of the switched votes, jav not loosing his cool following plutonius provocation) things might have been very different.
i don't know who the hunters are or who they protected and when, but to me the key of the game was jav's betraying himself as a wolf suspect early on. once you were by yourself so early, it was almost mission impossible, even if only one hunter was there.

 

[appleguy123]

-aggie-'s daughter died that day. The village had a quaint little funeral, the last among the myriad of such events that week.

The casket was closed, allowing the attenders to visualize her before her mutilated state.

-aggie- was to give the eulogy. He couldn't get through it. He choked up at the first sentence.

Plutonius tried to comfort him. "It's okay. We're all here for you"

-Aggie- fell to his knees."No it's not! I can't live with this any longer. It was I! I was the murderer." He spent some time sobbing uncontrollably. "Last week, I fell ill and slept. And when I woke up, there she was, attacked. There were still traces of the monster I had become upon me." He gestured at himself, visualizing a think coat of fur on his body.

The crowd gasped with astonishment, but -aggie- continued for all the world as though he were alone. "I hired an incompetant inspector whom I knew would be less likely to find the villain than a man on the moon." He paused, revelling uncharacteristically in the story he told. "It was the perfect cover up, you see. But I can't do it anymore, now that...that...she's" he paused unable to acknowledge his daughter's death, nor the full extend of his culpability in it.

From his pocket, he drew an ornately pollished silver blade. He gripped it with two hands, and thrust it into his grief-striken heart. He moaned with the final pain, not just from the intrusion, but from the painful transformation into the werewolf.
-aggie- was dead, and the village suffered no further strife at the hands of Werewolves.

Behind the scenes:
Wolves- -aggie-, nies, Jav6454
Hunters- Melrose, Ravenvii
Seer- eldiablojo
NIGHT ONE:
Hunters protect:
Ravenii- Chrmjenkins
Melrose: Moyank24
Seer scans:
Moyank 24
Wolves Attack:
Chrmjenkins
NIGHT TWO:
Hunters protect:
Ravenvii- Jav6454
Melrose- Jav6454
Seer scans:
Nies
Wolves Attack: ChrmJenkins
NIGHT THREE:
Hunters protect:
Melrose- -aggie-
Ravenvii- Eldiablojo
Seer scans:
Wolves Attack: eldiablojo
NIGHT FOUR:
Hunters protect:
Ravenvii- Don't Panic
Melrose- Jav6454
Seer scans:
lbro
Wolves Attack: Don't Panic
NIGHT FIVE:
Hunters protect:
Ravenvii- Eldiablojo
Melrose- eldiablojo
Seer scans:
Melrose
Wolves Attack:
Eldiablojo
That's all she wrote. Hope you guys had fun!

 

[appleguy123]

i don't necessarily think it's cool. in fact, i agree that they were too much, especially with the immunity. in hindsight, one should have been enough, and/or we should have had 4 wolves, or 2 wolves +infection (so nobody is cleared from early on for the entire duration of the game. but that's hindsight for you.

but that was not the point of my post or jav's. my point was that it simply it is not true that the number of wolves/hunter 'changed' during the game, it didn't: it was the same from the beginning and discussed in times when both you and jav were actively posting and participating (indeed, in post 93 you suggested that 3 wolves were too many). so there is no point in acting surprised about it.

and in terms of balance, if you caught a couple of lucky breaks (eldiablo not finding nies early on, the hunters not luckying out in alternating in the seer protection, the timing of the switched votes, jav not loosing his cool following plutonius provocation) things might have been very different.
i don't know who the hunters are or who they protected and when, but to me the key of the game was jav's betraying himself as a wolf suspect early on. once you were by yourself so early, it was almost mission impossible, even if only one hunter was there.

For the record, you can see that if Ravenvii had been the only hunter, the outcomes would have been the same.
The only effect that two hunters had was to make the wolves less likely to attack the same person two nights in a row, and I think that that fundamental uncertainty is a big and fun part of this game.
Seeing this effect, I think it might be fun to play a game where the number of wolves and hunters is unknown. Of course if the villagers kill all of the wolves, or if the wolves are the majority the game would end immediately.
Thoughts?
Also, on a related note, I really hope that someone runs that postponed advanced game that we worked so hard to create...
But remember (as I forgot) Intell has the next game.

 

[Plutonius]

Hmmm,

Was Melrose working for PETA last game ?

 

[-aggie-]

i don't necessarily think it's cool. in fact, i agree that they were too much, especially with the immunity. in hindsight, one should have been enough, and/or we should have had 4 wolves, or 2 wolves +infection (so nobody is cleared from early on for the entire duration of the game. but that's hindsight for you.

but that was not the point of my post or jav's. my point was that it simply it is not true that the number of wolves/hunter 'changed' during the game, it didn't: it was the same from the beginning and discussed in times when both you and jav were actively posting and participating (indeed, in post 93 you suggested that 3 wolves were too many). so there is no point in acting surprised about it.

and in terms of balance, if you caught a couple of lucky breaks (eldiablo not finding nies early on, the hunters not luckying out in alternating in the seer protection, the timing of the switched votes, jav not loosing his cool following plutonius provocation) things might have been very different.
i don't know who the hunters are or who they protected and when, but to me the key of the game was jav's betraying himself as a wolf suspect early on. once you were by yourself so early, it was almost mission impossible, even if only one hunter was there.

I'm not arguing jav's point. You're missing my point. Read my post again. If you don't understand, I'm done discussing it.

For the record, you can see that if Ravenvii had been the only hunter, the outcomes would have been the same.
The only effect that two hunters had was to make the wolves less likely to attack the same person two nights in a row, and I think that that fundamental uncertainty is a big and fun part of this game.
Seeing this effect, I think it might be fun to play a game where the number of wolves and hunters is unknown. Of course if the villagers kill all of the wolves, or if the wolves are the majority the game would end immediately.
Thoughts?
Also, on a related note, I really hope that someone runs that postponed advanced game that we worked so hard to create...
But remember (as I forgot) Intell has the next game.

Again, WHO was HOLDING UP THE GAME???

 

[Eldiablojoe]

Hmmm I thought I scanned every night.

 

[Plutonius]

Again, WHO was HOLDING UP THE GAME???

There was no hold up. Both turns and PM's had a 24 hour deadline. You might have wanted the game to move quicker but it moved along at the pace that was announced at the start of the game.

Besides, you really expect Appleguy to tell everyone that xxx person was usually the last to turn in his PM ? If you knew the identity of the last person, what difference would it make ?

 

[-aggie-]

There was no hold up. Both turns and PM's had a 24 hour deadline. You might have wanted the game to move quicker but it moved along at the pace that was announced at the start of the game.

Besides, you really expect Appleguy to tell everyone that xxx person was usually the last to turn in his PM ? If you knew the identity of the last person, what difference would it make ?

Well gosh, you're right. There was no holdup. What was I thinking?

Thanks for making that all clear.

 

[Intell]

But remember (as I forgot) Intell has the next game.

So I do. I'll start a new thread and sign ups later today or tomorrow.

 

[Melrose]

Hmmm,

Was Melrose working for PETA last game ?

Oh shut up. Early on I had no clue what was going on.

 

[chrmjenkins]

The fact that all of the successful hunter protects were from one person is a statistical outlier. If you give the villagers two hunters, they will, on average, have more successful protects. Also, 2 hunters should be reserved for when the wolves have special powers. It's unbalanced otherwise IMO.

 

[Melrose]

The fact that all of the successful hunter protects were from one person is a statistical outlier. If you give the villagers two hunters, they will, on average, have more successful protects. Also, 2 hunters should be reserved for when the wolves have special powers. It's unbalanced otherwise IMO.

Well, in this case it wasn't - I was completely useless

I do agree with your point, but it's just funny in this case that it really didn't matter.

 

[-aggie-]

The fact that all of the successful hunter protects were from one person is a statistical outlier. If you give the villagers two hunters, they will, on average, have more successful protects. Also, 2 hunters should be reserved for when the wolves have special powers. It's unbalanced otherwise IMO.

Well, in this case it wasn't - I was completely useless

I do agree with your point, but it's just funny in this case that it really didn't matter.

But it did matter, since we couldn’t know one of the hunters was making those kind of choices. For example, the obvious thing was to kill joeblow, but we couldn’t do that, since we might have spent the whole game attacking him, and one or the other hunter might be protecting him. It really threw us for a loop.

 

[Intell]

The new WW game is up: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1137898/