Simply Put, Too Much

[Scepticalscribe]

The problem is that Americans live in a prudish happy care bear bubble in this regard. You consider this rude and crude language - The rest of the world consider it normal use of language...
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Because that example wasn't crude in the slightest. It was perfectly normal language use. The world is not so sissy as are most Americans in this regard. Must be related to the puritan heritage...

I'm not American, I'm from the British Isles, and, from my perspective, very few environments or social or work settings, or contexts justify the use of crude language.

Understanding context, and that different forms of language are used in different settings and contexts is just basic manners or an awareness of social calibration and one's environment.

So I guess many people would get sick from the language used in German companies... We even have a name for such sophisticated language use: "Stock im Arsch" - translated a stick in the bud. Meaning people who can't relax socially.

Again, employing a "sophisticated use of language" does not equate with being uptight socially, and it is something of a fallacy (or perhaps a prejudice) to assume a link where none exists.

I’ve always failed to see the “enlightenment” of lacking self-restraint and choosing one’s words with care and creativity.

Absolutely; I couldn't agree more.

It's easy - your self restraint is bad for the psyche. Countless studies have shown that crude language help reduce stress.

The use of crude language may reduce the level of stress of those who use it; I doubt it does anything to relieve the stress of those against whom it is used, or to whom it may be addressed.

Its not high society, I'm anything but high society. You seem to associate those people who choose to not use to crude language as prudes, stick in the muds (I'd rather use that term then the literal translation) and those who cannot relax in society.

I would venture a guess based on your posts that you have a bias against people who have a different opinion on how to communicate. Also just because you witness people acting a certain way means it's true for the entire country and/or world. That is, your personal experience does not equate to everyone in the world, such blanket statements are frequently misguided and ill-fitting.

Again, well said and I am in complete agreement with you.

 

[ericgtr12]

I’ve always failed to see the “enlightenment” of lacking self-restraint and choosing one’s words with care and creativity.

As I have always failed to see why one can't simply speak their mind without word police parsing each word for a perfectly sanitized statement. Not everyone is eloquent and well-spoken, most are just regular folks talking as if they would among friends or in their typical setting. Doing that at MR will inevitably result in a slap on your wrist as if you were a child.

 

[sracer]

As I have always failed to see why one can't simply speak their mind without word police parsing each word for a perfectly sanitized statement. Not everyone is eloquent and well-spoken, most are just regular folks talking as if they would among friends or in their typical setting. Doing that at MR will inevitably result in a slap on your wrist as if you were a child.

The issue isn't about "speaking one's mind" but about the words chosen in doing that.

 

[Jayderek]

As I have always failed to see why one can't simply speak their mind without word police parsing each word for a perfectly sanitized statement. Not everyone is eloquent and well-spoken, most are just regular folks talking as if they would among friends or in their typical setting. Doing that at MR will inevitably result in a slap on your wrist as if you were a child.

Adults should be able to read the room and adjust a manner of speaking and tone - MR is not a collection of buddies hanging out on a Friday night. It never has been and never will.

Joking around is fun with my friends but too often in this forum, 'joking around' is the go-to excuse to get away with insults and just being an awful person.

It amazes me that this is difficult to understand. Thankfully everyone is free to leave and go elsewhere...

 

[ericgtr12]

Adults should be able to read the room and adjust a manner of speaking and tone - MR is not a collection of buddies hanging out on a Friday night. It never has been and never will.

Joking around is fun with my friends but too often in this forum, 'joking around' is the go-to excuse to get away with insults and just being an awful person.

It amazes me that this is difficult to understand. Thankfully everyone is free to leave and go elsewhere...

I’ll say this, in just this thread alone you all have said GTFO in the nicest possible ways. I’m equally as amazed at just how pretentious and insulting this group can be. But it’s “the way” you say it that makes it so acceptable.

 

[willmtaylor]

As I have always failed to see why one can't simply speak their mind without word police parsing each word for a perfectly sanitized statement. Not everyone is eloquent and well-spoken, most are just regular folks talking as if they would among friends or in their typical setting. Doing that at MR will inevitably result in a slap on your wrist as if you were a child.

A straw man, no doubt, but I’ll bite.

I never said every word must be sanitized. I was replying to one postulating that restraint was as a result of being a stick in the mud or prudish. (As if thinking before speaking is for the less evolved of us.)

I never said every word must be eloquent, but I do believe that words ought to be thoughtful—they contain the most immense power.

To imply that regular folks don’t have to consider their words and further imply that this is a thing of benefit is a disservice to all involved.

MR has a TOS, and those who choose to participate are expected to abide by it. Simply put, if you don’t like their rules, you’re free to take your ball and play elsewhere—as am I.

 

[C DM]

I’ll say this, in just this thread alone you all have said GTFO in the nicest possible ways. I’m equally as amazed at just how pretentious and insulting this group can be. But it’s “the way” you say it that makes it so acceptable.

Doesn't really seem like that's what's actually happening as much as things being pointed out about how something like all of this works in society.

To put it in a somewhat analogous context (mainly as an example of the idea and not as an actual comparison): if someone comes to a library to have a loud conversation with friends it would seem like that really wouldn't be the place for that kind of thing--not because loud conversations with friends are bad in some way or because those in the library are somehow "above" having loud conversations with their own friends, but because that isn't the place for something like that. Now, again, that isn't a direct comparison, but it demonstrates the basic concept.

 

[sracer]

I’ll say this, in just this thread alone you all have said GTFO in the nicest possible ways. I’m equally as amazed at just how pretentious and insulting this group can be. But it’s “the way” you say it that makes it so acceptable.

What has been said that you consider to be "pretentious and insulting"?

 

[dfs]

No offense, but what exactly is the point of making a “farewell” post? If you’re done with this forum, just leave and be done with it. Seems to me you’re just seeking attention by declaring you’re done with MR. JMO.

I think the point of these posts is the hope that somebody at MR will read them. Ideally, management (with a few being shown to top management, either for their quality or because they represent a large number of similar ones--is top management even aware of this dissatisfaction). Other than that, the moderators need to be told that their decisions are not universally held in high esteem and that a reasonably large number members of the MR community think they could be doing a better job. If their seemingly arbitrary decisions are driving long-time members away from the site, maybe some sort of reality check is in order and they might be well advised to take a good hard look at themselves.

Presumably these moderators are given some kind of guidelines by management. It might be healthy to have a link to these guidelines prominently placed on this site so that we could all see exactly what instructions moderators are being given.

 

[ericgtr12]

I think the point of these posts is the hope that somebody at MR will read them. Ideally, management (with a few being shown to top management, either for their quality or because they represent a large number of similar ones--is top management even aware of this dissatisfaction). Other than that, the moderators need to be told that their decisions are not universally held in high esteem and that a reasonably large number members of the MR community think they could be doing a better job. If their seemingly arbitrary decisions are driving long-time members away from the site, maybe some sort of reality check is in order and they might be well advised to take a good hard look at themselves.

Presumably these moderators are given some kind of guidelines by management. It might be healthy to have a link to these guidelines prominently placed on this site so that we could all see exactly what instructions moderators are being given.

Well, they are at odds with themselves here. Many mods have expressed their dissatisfaction with the PRSI forum, managing discussions around politics and religion are trying for anyone as their nature is spirited debate. With the rules here the term spirited may be subjective but is mostly interpreted as disruptive or abusive and acted upon as such.

In my view, as long as they open the board up to this type of discussion, it will always be an issue.

 

[I7guy]

I’ll say this, in just this thread alone you all have said GTFO in the nicest possible ways. I’m equally as amazed at just how pretentious and insulting this group can be. But it’s “the way” you say it that makes it so acceptable.

Nobody said "GTFO". My interpretation is that what is being said is that there are guidelines surrounding the forum discussions and one should strive to work within those guidelines. Those that believe the rules hinder their thoughts should consider if participation in this site is for them. But nobody has said or implied anyone should GTFO.

Well, they are at odds with themselves here. Many mods have expressed their dissatisfaction with the PRSI forum, managing discussions around politics and religion are trying for anyone as their nature is spirited debate. With the rules here the term spirited may be subjective but is mostly interpreted as disruptive or abusive and acted upon as such.

In my view, as long as they open the board up to this type of discussion, it will always be an issue.

This site has better "customer service" than a lot of paying business and the existence of this SF&F forum proves it. The moderators are allowed to vocalize their opinions of PRSI, and accepting the "job" of a moderator on this site is all about making sure the site is running as smoothly as possible for all of it's 1M members. And some of the dirty work of this "job" winds up by policing PRSI. If I recap some sentiment accurately, the mind-numbing aspect of it results from potentially reading many posts to see patterns of rule abuse and trolling.

It's clear there are differing notions of acceptable discourse and if there is too much policing, not enough policing or just the right amount. There will never be agreement on this, but by a large it seems most posters can get their point across civilly and spirited and within the guidelines. We all should be able to do the same.

 

[Dranix]

but by a large it seems most posters can get their point across civilly and spirited and within the guidelines. We all should be able to do the same.

Yes as long as you add the invisible master rule: don't criticise the usa... Then you get modded instantly. Imo Mr Trump could eat babies for dinner and saying something about it would get you modded. This is sadly no international site as is told to us - It's a typical us site with only us rules and behaviour rules. God bless America! *barf*

 

[I7guy]

Yes as long as you add the invisible master rule: don't criticise the usa... Then you get modded instantly. Imo Mr Trump could eat babies for dinner and saying something about it would get you modded. This is sadly no international site as is told to us - It's a typical us site with only us rules and behaviour rules. God bless America! *barf*

Unclear as to why you believe there is an agenda against posts containing a specific topic. There must be another underlying reason specific topics or posts are “moderated”.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

As I have always failed to see why one can't simply speak their mind without word police parsing each word for a perfectly sanitized statement. Not everyone is eloquent and well-spoken, most are just regular folks talking as if they would among friends or in their typical setting. Doing that at MR will inevitably result in a slap on your wrist as if you were a child.

As @sracer, below, has pointed out, the issue is not "speaking your mind", it is how you choose to do so, and what words you use to do so.

Words have power, they come freighted with the weight of their history, and cultural baggage, they are not neutral, and they should not be used heedlessly or thoughtlessly.

Thinking before opening your mouth to give voice to something need not mean having to express yourself by way of "a perfectly sanitised statement", but it does mean recognising the difference between argument and insult, and focussing on the former while recognising that the latter is inappropriate in this setting and context.

The issue isn't about "speaking one's mind" but about the words chosen in doing that.

Exactly, and well said.

Adults should be able to read the room and adjust a manner of speaking and tone - MR is not a collection of buddies hanging out on a Friday night. It never has been and never will.

Joking around is fun with my friends but too often in this forum, 'joking around' is the go-to excuse to get away with insults and just being an awful person.

It amazes me that this is difficult to understand. Thankfully everyone is free to leave and go elsewhere...

And again, very well said.

Some of the proponents of uninhibited speech may have a quarrel with the fact that they are not permitted to confuse and conflate insults and the right to offend with having to advance a reasoned argument when they wish to make a case.

I’ll say this, in just this thread alone you all have said GTFO in the nicest possible ways. I’m equally as amazed at just how pretentious and insulting this group can be. But it’s “the way” you say it that makes it so acceptable.

Nobody has said GTFO; what they have said is that much of what is shrugged off as "joking around" is, in reality, an attempt to insult and offend under the guise of "humour" (coarse, crude and otherwise), and to attempt to argue that this is "humour" comes across as disingenuous. And, sometimes, dishonest.

A straw man, no doubt, but I’ll bite.

I never said every word must be sanitized. I was replying to one postulating that restraint was as a result of being a stick in the mud or prudish. (As if thinking before speaking is for the less evolved of us.)

I never said every word must be eloquent, but I do believe that words ought to be thoughtful—they contain the most immense power.

To imply that regular folks don’t have to consider their words and further imply that this is a thing of benefit is a disservice to all involved.

MR has a TOS, and those who choose to participate are expected to abide by it. Simply put, if you don’t like their rules, you’re free to take your ball and play elsewhere—as am I.

Excellent post and well said.

 

[bobob]

To witness (outside of PRSI) what baiting, trolling, name-calling, flaming, and off-topic comments are acceptable...

I find it even worse when that baiting, trolling, name-calling, flaming and off-topic comments [and photos] is being posted by MacRumors staff and moderators themselves.

For example:

Just a heads up -- we had some complaints about the photo that was previously used in this article, so I've swapped the original photo for a different photo of a 12.9-inch 2018 iPad Pro demonstrating a slight bend. The original photo featured a more significant bend and some users rightly pointed out that it was not perhaps the same issue that Apple is describing.

Does the swapped picture show a freshly unboxed iPad?

I'd encourage you guys not to focus too much on the photos in the article

Is this actually meant to be a professional response from a high profile website?

Us "guys" (apparently women need not concern themselves with such things) would prefer photos that match the article, rather than duplicitious ones intended to incite anger.

If the situation is so uncommon that there is not an actual picture of a freshly unboxed iPad displaying the defect described in the article, here are two possible alternate choices: do not post a photo at all, or post an accurate scale illustration showing the maximum 400 micron tolerance over the length of an iPad.

 

[C DM]

I find it even worse when that baiting, trolling, name-calling, flaming and off-topic comments [and photos] is being posted by MacRumors staff and moderators themselves.

For example:


Does the swapped picture show a freshly unboxed iPad?



Is this actually meant to be a professional response from a high profile website?

Us "guys" (apparently women need not concern themselves with such things) would prefer photos that match the article, rather than duplicitious ones intended to incite anger.

If the situation is so uncommon that there is not an actual picture of a freshly unboxed iPad displaying the defect described in the article, here are two possible alternate choices: do not post a photo at all, or post an accurate scale illustration showing the maximum 400 micron tolerance over the length of an iPad.

Just to comment on one part of it all that was brought up: https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/guys

 

[bobob]

Just to comment on one part of it all that was brought up: https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/guys

Would you use that term in that manner in a professional document in your workplace?

eg: "As stockholders, you guys know what a difficult year our company has had..."

 

[C DM]

Would you use that term in that manner in a professional document in your workplace?

eg: "As stockholders, you guys know what a difficult year our company has had..."

That particular response was in relation to the male/female aspect of it all that was brought up.

 

[bobob]

That particular response was in relation to the male/female aspect of it all that was brought up.

Exactly.

 

[C DM]

Exactly.

Exactly what?

 

[I7guy]

I find it even worse when that baiting, trolling, name-calling, flaming and off-topic comments [and photos] is being posted by MacRumors staff and moderators themselves.

For example:


Does the swapped picture show a freshly unboxed iPad?



Is this actually meant to be a professional response from a high profile website?

Us "guys" (apparently women need not concern themselves with such things) would prefer photos that match the article, rather than duplicitious ones intended to incite anger.

If the situation is so uncommon that there is not an actual picture of a freshly unboxed iPad displaying the defect described in the article, here are two possible alternate choices: do not post a photo at all, or post an accurate scale illustration showing the maximum 400 micron tolerance over the length of an iPad.

You are accusing the MacRumors editorial staff of baiting, trolling, name-calling, flaming and off-topic comments based on a MacRumors news article that maybe could have been written more clearly with regard to some english and photos?

Or is there more to it than that?