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You really have no clue do you about what Google does and does not mine. They are not mining your PERSONAL data. They are selling ANONYMOUS ad slots, just like Apple does with it's iTunes/Mac/iBook stores & they did with iAds. I really have no idea why this concept troubles people so much
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No. What's disingenuous is assertions like yours, Apple's and others that Google is mining personal data when they're doing nothing of the sort.

Pretty much is what it is.

Over the past four years, Google has admitted “scanning and indexing” student email messages sent using GAFE and data mining student users for commercial gain when they use their accounts for noneducational purposes.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/04/the-student-data-mining-scandal-under-our-noses/


Look through
If you use google services it adds up.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...l-the-data-facebook-google-has-on-you-privacy

It’s staggering the amount of information google collect on each individual user when they use google servies vs Apple and the amount of information they collect.

Like this guys decade of Apple services use only amounted to 5mb.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-data-collection-stored-request/
 
It is literally Google's business model to sell data. It is Apple's business model to sell hardware.

Sometimes, that data can be collected in a sufficiently anonymous manner. And oftentimes, it can't.

Your making way to much sense.
Too bad he will ignore it.
 
Every year this survey seems to Come up with comparisons. Is Siri as advanced as Google? No. But Siri does things really well for what I need it to for in house commands with my Apple Watch, iPad, iPhone, etc. I
Use Siri for dictation every single day and for the most part, I have no issues with it. Where I would like to see Siri improved would be deciphering words better and providing more detail results of questions being asked. Otherwise, Siri is a crucial part to my iOS experience.
I agree what it does it does really well. But most importantly it understands me. I activated Bixby on my S9 Plus today. I lasted 5 minutes with it. I had to keep repeating things over and over again. It was very slow to respond. I disabled it again for good.
 
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I imagine this doesn't count all the times when it just sits and spins saying "Say anything" or says it needs to be connected to the internet to set a timer...
 
Are you joking.
What you call ad tracking is google mining your data.

Let's define what "mining" means. Mining, to me, is more like web scraping. You're trying to correlate data from abnormal methods because something isn't being explicitly provided to you.

Now, let's look at it from a different angle. You are using Google services. You effectively allowed them to profile you by providing your data. You're in Google's domain simply by using their services. So how are they "mining"? You're literally giving them your data and using their services?

In one of the articles what you call ad tracking, or in reality mining student data:

“A Google spokeswoman confirmed to Education Week that the company “scans and indexes” the emails of all Apps for Education users for a variety of purposes, including potential advertising, via automated processes that cannot be turned off--even for Apps for Education customers who elect not to receive ads”

Uh huh.

Here's the reality. Just because you elect to not receive ads does not mean Google/Apple can't create a profile for you. You're disabling the client result of the automated processes. Every tech company has this.

“The harvesting of our personal details goes far beyond what many of us could imagine. So I braced myself and had a look”

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...l-the-data-facebook-google-has-on-you-privacy

Right according to you it’s user error for using google services. Smh.

I wouldn't call it user error. I'd call it user simply not reading the ToS & privacy policy AND not looking at the settings. Error implies they are doing something wrong, where in reality they are simply not doing it. It's not wrong. They just chose not to read the options. Every product person knows that you enable options by default for the best experience. The user must voluntarily disable what they don't want.

Quite the amount of social engineering required to get that much information out of one person .

I wonder what Apple does, according to you must be the same.

I asked Apple for all my data. Here's what was sent back

“Apple gave me all the data it collected on me since I bought my first iPhone — in 2010. That was nearly a decade ago.... The recent Cambridge Analytica scandal revealed just how much tech companies have on us -- enough to figure out who we might vote for at the ballot box, for example.

Apple? Not so much.

Apple took a little over a week to send me all the data it's collected on me, amounting to almost two dozen Excel spreadsheets at just 5MB in total -- roughly the equivalent of a high-quality photo snapped on my iPhone.”

https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-data-collection-stored-request/

The amount of data google acquires on each individual user is staggering to assert that Apple is responsible for the same, is disingenuous.

Apple actually has more data on me than Google has based on what I downloaded, respectively. So to each their own. I'm not even trying to justify if it's right or wrong, I'm just saying you should look at the issues more openly.

Clearly, you want to trust other people more than yourself. :)
 
Certainly puts to rest all the claims of "no improvement" in Siri, as well as a sizable dent in the claim that Alexa is more accurate.

The real problem is word recognition. Siri is ABYSMAL at it. Especially with proper names like places, cities, anything remotely ethnic. Google nails this stuff.

I simply can't do Android. I tried. But I'd pay $100 more for my iPhone to have an always on Google Assistant option rather than Siri.
 
I'm pleasantly surprised w/ Siri's results here. Granted, I don't use GV or Alexa, but from the press reports I always assumed Siri was the worst.
 
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Let's define what "mining" means. Mining, to me, is more like web scraping. You're trying to correlate data from abnormal methods because something isn't being explicitly provided to you.

Now, let's look at it from a different angle. You are using Google services. You effectively allowed them to profile you by providing your data. You're in Google's domain simply by using their services. So how are they "mining"? You're literally giving them your data and using their services?



Here's the reality. Just because you elect to not receive ads does not mean Google/Apple can't create a profile for you. You're disabling the client result of the automated processes. Every tech company has this.



I wouldn't call it user error. I'd call it user simply not reading the ToS & privacy policy AND not looking at the settings. Error implies they are doing something wrong, where in reality they are simply not doing it. It's not wrong. They just chose not to read the options. Every product person knows that you enable options by default for the best experience. The user must voluntarily disable what they don't want.



Apple actually has more data on me than Google has based on what I downloaded, respectively. So to each their own. I'm not even trying to justify if it's right or wrong, I'm just saying you should look at the issues more openly.

Clearly, you want to trust other people more than yourself. :)

No, I’m going to stop you right there scanning and Indexing personal emails is nothing like web scrapping.

If you have to start redefining words to prove your point, not much of one to begin with.

Google mines it’s users data it’s not really a debate at this point, as another user pointed out it’s googles business model. You don’t have to believe it.

I do trust myself, and that’s why I and many others consumers use and prefer Apple, because they don’t mine your personal data just for using their services... over a random stranger on the internet asserting “google doesn’t mine personal data”... ok sure
 
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Siri performs at like a 10% for me.
I despise her.
Says someone who tried using Siri a couple times a few years ago and then gave up after not receiving the requested BJ.

Keep in mind that this test is with the iOS11 version of Siri. iOS12 version is already publicly available and is another step up. Other smart assistants generally don't upgrade their systems on a discrete annual basis like this...they're constantly releasing minor new features as they are developed.

Also note that only google assistant and Siri offer pre-emptive suggestions in the operating system. I lifted my phone a few minutes before a Webex meeting, and the top notification is a Siri suggestion to log in to the meeting. I swipe or tap on that, and I'm instantly logged in. If I have a meeting that is a certain distance away, it might suggest to send a text to the meeting organizer that I'll be late. Tap that, and the text is sent.

The main thing Siri needs to add ASAP to remain competitive is multi-command ("hey Siri, set the volume to 7, play Beats 1, and set the scene to party") This can be done with the Siri shortcuts, but it's not flexible.
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And yet Siri still cannot effectively do voice to text without messing up 75% of the time.
According to the real test data, it's 11 out of 800, or 1.3%. But what's 73.7% between friends?
 
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Without the ability to rectify one part of my previous request or to supplement it, no matter how high this “accuracy” is, it’ll never be really useful at all!!! Who would be able to speak everything in perfect syntax and background without contemplate for a while? How useful would an assistant be if you always need to contemplate very carefully before asking for assistance?????
 
That's not very eco friendly. Why didn't you recycle them or perhaps donate them to a charity?
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I hope I never encounter you on the road whilst I am driving given you're so distracted. :eek:

That is the whole point of texting with voice. I can look at the road and respond to messages.
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Siri will never be able to have a better voice data set than Google. Google has been transcribing voice mails from google voice for almost a decade.

They are still horrible at it transcribing voicemails.
 
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No, I’m going to stop you right there scanning and Indexing personal emails is nothing like web scrapping.

All of your data that you submit to a 3rd party service can be stored and scanned. How do you think data warehousing works or analytics? Let's say you're watching Netflix. Did you know Netflix tracks your interest, likes, dislikes, who you are, what videos you like, your play through in a show, ... basically ALL interaction about you? All this data will be stored in a data warehouse that they can develop machine learning AIs to profile who you are anonymously. They can deduce your interests easily by correlating all types of behavior properties in your interaction. How? Because you use their service and they track it.

Now take Google and look at the services they offer compared to Netflix and Apple. You provide them a much broader data set. They can do whatever they want behind the scenes to improve their profile models. If you don't feel comfortable using Google email, maybe you should stick to Mailinator. While you're at it, don't use LinkedIn, Facebook/Instagram, Snapchat, Wechat, <insert messaging service> because messages are getting saved and sent over the wire which they can have autonomous processes figure out how to target you.

From an AI and machine learning pov, modeling profiles is much more valuable to a company than to identify specifically you. Maybe they might say "ffr@gmail.com" fits the "ABC" profile, and they will tweak the profile with different data variables that affect your overall profile. However, much of this can still be done anonymously. For all intensive purposes to them, your ID can simply be "c1ecccfa8ff75c90ea62b3b386aecb48" matching to the tweaked "ABC" profile.

For your reference, you should read more about data modeling and machine learning. Maybe crack open some software engineering books to help you understand how it works.

If you have to start redefining words to prove your point, not much of one to begin with.

I'm only defining it because I think non-technical people such as yourself misuse the word in a negative connotation. Every company mines your data if you use them as a service.

Google mines it’s users data it’s not really a debate at this point, as another user pointed out it’s googles business model. You don’t have to believe it.

I do trust myself, and that’s why I and many others consumers use and prefer Apple, because they don’t mine your personal data just for using their services... over a random stranger on the internet asserting “google doesn’t mine personal data”... ok sure

I'm just saying the way you are using the word "mine" is no different than how your government, Apple, Amazon, <insert company name including Apple>, credit card agencies, etc mines your data.

As much as Apple prides secrecy of data, I'm willing to bet if you do a social experiment asking why people are using Apple products, that would be one of the least used reasons. Also, don't be a hypocrite. If you use any service to send emails or messages other than writing a letter with pen and paper, then better make sure you trust them as much as you trust Apple :)
 
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Macrumors Editor,

Commerce ("Can you order me more paper towels?")

The sample question you used here is very misleading.

I was sitting here wondering how in the world did Amazon lose in the Commerce department??? I mean, you can order almost anything from Amazon! Whereas the iPhone can only order 3 things as far as I know... music, movies, and taxis. The thing is, the questions that were asked of the digital assistants were not about ordering things but rather about researching and suggesting purchasing options to the user. For example, if I told the assistant I wanted to buy soap, it should offer a list of brands and relevant places to shop and learn more about the product... research.

The sample question that Loup Ventires uses, “Where can I buy a new set of golf clubs?”, gives the reader a much better understanding of what Loup Ventures was measuring. In a way you can think of this as measuring consumer choice. Of course Amazon always sent the user to their website and offered only their “Amazon Choice” product. Amazon might have won if they had offered a list of appropriate products and brands from their website... but probably not. It would have been better if Amazon first queried whether we’d like to search Amazon, and if the user said no then offer a list of places to buy the product.

Anyway, any chance of you editing the article to offer a better sample question?
 
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Macrumors Editor,



The sample question you used here is very misleading.

I was sitting here wondering how in the world did Amazon lose in the Commerce department??? I mean, you can order almost anything from Amazon! Whereas the iPhone can only order 3 things as far as I know... music, movies, and taxis. The thing is, the questions that were asked of the digital assistants were not about ordering things but rather about researching and suggesting purchasing options to the user. For example, if I told the assistant I wanted to buy soap, it should offer a list of brands and relevant places to shop and learn more about the product... research.

The sample question that Loup Ventires uses, “Where can I buy a new set of golf clubs?”, gives the reader a much better understanding of what Loup Ventures was measuring. In a way you can think of this as measuring consumer choice. Of course Amazon always sent the user to their website and offered only their “Amazon Choice” product. Amazon might have won if they had offered a list of appropriate products and brands from their website... but probably not. It would have been better if Amazon first queried whether we’d like to search Amazon, and if the user said no then offer a list of places to buy the product.

Anyway, any chance of you editing the article to offer a better sample question?
I don't think the test was fair as they only used the iOS app versions of Alexa and Cortanna which are restricted. Alexa on an echo device can do a lot more than on the iOS app.
 
If only they'd let it talk to my Wink Hub... I'd use it more and have to power-cycle sh** less.
HomeBridge and https://www.npmjs.com/package/homebridge-wink3
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Siri will never be able to have a better voice data set than Google. Google has been transcribing voice mails from google voice for almost a decade.
And a billion people talk to Siri every day, far more than talk to google voice and google assistant put together.
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“Siri, play Tom Petty on Spotify” = fail.
“Siri, set the living room to 75” = fail (Nest).
"Siri, play Tom Petty" = win (Apple Music)
"Siri, set the living room to 75" = win (Nest with Homebridge)

Doesn't take much for both your scenarios to not fail.
 
Every year this survey seems to Come up with comparisons. Is Siri as advanced as Google? No. But Siri does things really well for what I need it to for in house commands with my Apple Watch, iPad, iPhone, etc. I
Use Siri for dictation every single day and for the most part, I have no issues with it. Where I would like to see Siri improved would be deciphering words better and providing more detail results of questions being asked. Otherwise, Siri is a crucial part to my iOS experience.

The results of such test would inevitably be greatly affected by the nature of the questions. Ask just simple questions and all these assistants will score 100%. The high scores reported do indicate that the questions were rather simple. These assistants (not even Google) are not that good yet in my experience.
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HomeBridge and https://www.npmjs.com/package/homebridge-wink3
[doublepost=1532580869][/doublepost]And a billion people talk to Siri every day, far more than talk to google voice and google assistant put together.

You must know something others don't. It does not look at all that iPhone users are that fond of Siri. There are 5x more Android devices than iOS devices besides all iOS devices can do Google Assistant. Are implying that iOS users are that talkative? Or that Siri is so stupid that iOS users have to repeat their questions a lot?
 
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I don't think the test was fair as they only used the iOS app versions of Alexa and Cortanna which are restricted. Alexa on an echo device can do a lot more than on the iOS app.

Restricted in what way? Or to put it another way, what more can Alexa do on an Android phone or an Echo device?
 
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Restricted in what way? Or to put it another way, what more can Alexa do on an Android phone or an Echo device?
I can order things hands free on my echo dot. In the app on the iPhone I have to manually switch between the alexa app and the amazon app and go through the steps of adding items to my shopping basket and then placing the order.

I haven't used Alexa on Android but I imagine it would work in the same way as it does on the iPhone.
 
And a billion people talk to Siri every day, far more than talk to google voice and google assistant put together.
Huh? You’re making the assumption that there are actually more iOS users using Siri than Android users using Google voice/assistant/translate, etc. Considering the market share of Android, statistically Google will always have more data than Apple will.

Oh, and then there’s YouTube transcription. You do the math. Looking at quantity of data, Apple will always be behind.
 
Absolute lie. I can't even get the damn thing on my X to even start listening when I hold the button in to activate her. Do the test again but without some millennial. Do it with a 60 year old guy in a crowded room or a bar. Bring all of the other assistant things to the same room. If it can even sniff 30% I will literally boil my shoe and eat it in public. Swear to god.
 
Where Google really starts to pull ahead though is in contextual answers. You can for example ask it about x country then just as follow it up with 'how many live there'. Google impressively get's this right again and again, something the other assistants struggled with. It has a far better understanding of language and how we phrase things that the others do not.


If it is "far better," why the narrow gap in scores?
 
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