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There's that denial again. Why I am not surprised. :rolleyes:

No matter how much you don't want it to be, that is the feature you were gloating over.

It never said custom tones for email & SMS tho. No-one knew it was custom SMS until it was added in beta 3, until then it was all speculation based on that. If that image had said set CUSTOM tones.. Then yes I would be wrong. But it doesn't. I've been wrong before, go look at one or 2 of the beta threads where I got a coupla things way wrong, I went back and ate humble pie as opposed to either staying away or trying to twist things and ignore facts, like you are tonight....

And you still ignore the Very very relevant fact that Siri will be getting NEW, previously unannounced features in in 5.1! Or are you gonna conjure up some random loophole to explain how you're still not wrong?! Lol.
 
It never said custom tones for email & SMS tho. No-one knew it was custom SMS until it was added in beta 3, until then it was all speculation based on that.

That song comes up... what was it ? You spin me right round baby right round...

And you still ignore the Very very relevant fact that Siri will be getting NEW, previously unannounced features in in 5.1! Or are you gonna conjure up some random loophole to explain how you're still not wrong?! Loo

What new features ? It will now understand more keywords and do more local actions ? I don't call those features. It's the same feature it was in the first place, it just now covers more settings in your phone.
 
That song comes up... what was it ? You spin me right round baby right round...



What new features ? It will now understand more keywords and do more local actions ? I don't call those features. It's the same feature it was in the first place, it just now covers more settings in your phone.

Haha I knew it, you're trying to explain away new features as nothing. Thank you for proving me right and making yourself look foolish.

Plus you know I'm right about tones, your 'evidence' does not say custom tones.

On that note, I'm done with replying to you. You've just proven that you cannot accept being wrong, when you accuse me of it, even when the evidence is there as I state in this post.
 
Haha I knew it, you're trying to explain away new features as nothing. Thank you for proving me right.

Plus you know I'm right about tones, your 'evidence' does not say custom tones.

No, the only thing I know is you're arguing in bad faith. And now this conversation is over. Obviously, you'll never admit to being wrong, even when proof is shoved in your face. Sorry, that's not something I have time to waste on. I'll just add you to ignore, feel free to not reply to me. ;)
 
Haha I knew it, you're trying to explain away new features as nothing. Thank you for proving me right and making yourself look foolish.

Plus you know I'm right about tones, your 'evidence' does not say custom tones.

On that note, I'm done with replying to you. You've just proven that you cannot accept being wrong, when you accuse me of it, even when the evidence is there as I state in this post.

You're not even close to done replying to him - more denial ;) You won't be able to help yourself.

He hasn't proven you right about anything except that you're stubborn. He also doesn't look foolish.

And he's no less right about tones than you are. But of course you fail to see that. You've had post fail for a few pages now.
 
And he's no less right about tones than you are. But of course you fail to see that.

go on then, explain how me saying that Custom SMS, email tones, etc were not an announced feature for iOS5 then? the only evidence shown was a line that says "set tones for voicemail, email and calender alerts". that did not say CUSTOM tones for SMS, email and custom tones.

You're just hell bent on unreasonably disagreeing with everything i say even when i'm right. Whereas i've said all along that I'm not totally against the idea that Siri could work perfectly in daily use and that Apple just left it out for marketing reasons, hell they probably did as they have done with other features for iOS devices, like video recording, the old voice control, the multitasking, etc. (notice i have already said that in a post either yesterday or tuesday, so i'm not changing my tone). I'm open minded to both sides, and i'm just trying to point out that until it's been tested on a 3GS in daily use, then we will never know for 100% certain what the reason is.
 
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It never said custom tones for email & SMS tho. No-one knew it was custom SMS until it was added in beta 3, until then it was all speculation based on that. If that image had said set CUSTOM tones.. Then yes I would be wrong. But it doesn't. I've been wrong before, go look at one or 2 of the beta threads where I got a coupla things way wrong, I went back and ate humble pie as opposed to either staying away or trying to twist things and ignore facts, like you are tonight....

And you still ignore the Very very relevant fact that Siri will be getting NEW, previously unannounced features in in 5.1! Or are you gonna conjure up some random loophole to explain how you're still not wrong?! Lol.

Youre confusing things. As far as i know, no one said that Beta means "everyone must know every function, day 1". Rather, the question to ask is: Did Apple know it would implement these functions with 5.1? (and 5.0).
 
Youre confusing things. As far as i know, no one said that Beta means "everyone must know every function, day 1". Rather, the question to ask is: Did Apple know it would implement these functions with 5.1? (and 5.0).

Rodimus and Knight both said betas are feature complete so no new features would be added. Go back in the thread, the posts are there. I pointed out the new features for Siri coming with 5.1, which are obviously not in the current coding, thus why we have to wait for 5.1, which just proves that the Siri beta is not feature complete as yet. Also I speculated that due to these new hardware control features, like turning wifi on and off, it looks like there's a good chance some of the processing will now be done on the device, as it just makes more sense.
 
Even if it read "custom" that doesn't mean his homemade, mashed-up janky beats and backflips. As an adjective, "custom" means "done to order for an individual." In this context it could have meant everything from "synthesizes your own unique tones from a set of numerical values interpolated from the day your create the sounds' weather forecast" to "individual tone assignment to each audio-cued event from a selection of available tones." Had Apple written "custom," obviously, it would have meant the latter.

The argument about Siri is the same argument everyone had about video in the iPhone 3GS. The original iPhone would have recorded video with quality acceptable for about any mobile phone camera users in that time frame. There were video recording apps for jailbroken original iPhones. Of course Apple holds features back. Probably for several reasons, including ease of use, quality of experience, server load -- in Siri's case -- and to get you to buy the new thing.

Bear in mind Apple's original iOS5 announcement features and advertising called out double-tap lock screen access to camera, and shutter button mapped to hardware volume-up button as "iPhone 4 only" -- remember, this was before the 4S was announced. But they wound up supporting it on the 3GS, too.

Regardless of what Apple is "up to," Siri has been rejecting requests for me, oh, since not longer after the time these yo-yos announced they "cracked" Siri's protocol. Could be coincidence, could be Apple trying to shore up the hole. I'd just as soon these guys quit mucking around in there so I can have the service for which I've paid. And, no, it's not Apple's fault for leaving the hole. You shouldn't have to fence your front lawn to keep people from tramping across it every morning.

Lastly, the word "beta" as bandied about in public attached to shipping products, at a price or for free, has no reasonable correlation to the lexicon of software design -- which has never been concretely defined without exceptions, anyway. Beta means everything from a fully functional product demo of final-release quality to a broken piece of wreckage that only even barely works a third the time.

Apple calling Siri "beta" is just something to point to when people complain it doesn't work all the time, or that it mangles more words than it should, or some regions get more features than others, or what have you. Beta has become more a marketing word than a software design word, of which "Siri beta" is a fine example.

go on then, explain how me saying that Custom SMS, email tones, etc were not an announced feature for iOS5 then? the only evidence shown was a line that says "set tones for voicemail, email and calender alerts". that did not say CUSTOM tones for SMS, email and custom tones.

You're just hell bent on unreasonably disagreeing with everything i say even when i'm right. Whereas i've said all along that I'm not totally against the idea that Siri could work perfectly in daily use and that Apple just left it out for marketing reasons, hell they probably did as they have done with other features for iOS devices, like video recording, the old voice control, the multitasking, etc. (notice i have already said that in a post either yesterday or tuesday, so i'm not changing my tone). I'm open minded to both sides, and i'm just trying to point out that until it's been tested on a 3GS in daily use, then we will never know for 100% certain what the reason is.
 
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Rodimus and Knight both said betas are feature complete so no new features would be added. Go back in the thread, the posts are there. I pointed out the new features for Siri coming with 5.1, which are obviously not in the current coding, thus why we have to wait for 5.1, which just proves that the Siri beta is not feature complete as yet. Also I speculated that due to these new hardware control features, like turning wifi on and off, it looks like there's a good chance some of the processing will now be done on the device, as it just makes more sense.

Added to what? The public part of the beta, or the "thing which you are about to launch"? From what i can remember, at least KnightWRX was clear on that he was referring to the later - with functionality rolled out in increments to enable more focused testing.

p.s. these hardware control features you are talking about are in essence software-based controls. The 3GS can turn off its wifi - hence, there is no reason why Siri cannot invoke the function already in place. In essence, its nothing but a simple call.

(it does not take more processing to do "wifi.set(state)" than "calendar.addEvent(date, time, description)... in fact ts not even part of Siri)

Anything you can do on your phone, siri can do for you on your phone. same functions (call), just different ways of invoking them (keyboard input v. voice input). Theres nothing here to imply that "the new Siri" is more processor intense.
 
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Added to what? The public part of the beta, or the "thing which you are about to launch"? From what i can remember, at least KnightWRX was clear on that he was referring to the later - with functionality rolled out in increments to enable more focused testing.

p.s. these hardware control features you are talking about are in essence software-based controls. The 3GS can turn off its wifi - hence, there is no reason why Siri cannot invoke the function already in place. In essence, its nothing but a simple call.

(it does not take more processing to do "wifi.set(state)" than "calendar.addEvent(date, time, description)... in fact ts not even part of Siri)

Anything you can do on your phone, siri can do for you on your phone. same functions (call), just different ways of invoking them.

Right so basically you're all saying that's it's feature complete unless I point out a feature has been added and you then decide 'oh they're just added in on increments for testing'... Plus they stated all the features are previously announced before the betas, but these hardware controls weren't. You're all just moving goalposts to suit your arguments...

You're totally not getting what I am meaning with the potential for the hardware controls. Everyone here has said that currently the phone just acts as a recording device and all the work is on the server, my speculation is that maybe with the new hardware controls, seeing as we have to wait for 5.1, there will be more work done on the phone, seeing as if you tell Siri to turn wifi off, you cannot ask it to turn it back on again if you're in a poor signal area. If the new functions are just software things, then surely it wouldn't need a point update like 5.1 iOS. Plus as I have said each time when talking about the new hardware controls, it's speculation based on the little info we have, yet you're trying to shoot me down as if it's solid facts! Lol
 
Sorry - but you missed the point of his post or you simply don't understand software vs hardware "design."

All of the "features" being added to Siri are simple coding additions. They aren't processor heavy at all. Even if done on the unit itself - it's still not processor heavy at all. The proof is in the past. The old voice control was able to control music playback and other similar functions and required no data being sent to a server. These were rudimentary processes and all done on the device. There's actually more "work" on the phone itself when you asked it to "Play The Rolling Stones" where the phone had to engage in a search and then start up the music app then "turn wifi on" or "turn wifi off".

In short - Apple already had the hardware and programming for THOSE types of functions. They are just using Siri now as a means to integrate it as one experience.


Right so basically you're all saying that's it's feature complete unless I point out a feature has been added and you then decide 'oh they're just added in on increments for testing'... Plus they stated all the features are previously announced before the betas, but these hardware controls weren't. You're all just moving goalposts to suit your arguments...

You're totally not getting what I am meaning with the potential for the hardware controls. Everyone here has said that currently the phone just acts as a recording device and all the work is on the server, my speculation is that maybe with the new hardware controls, seeing as we have to wait for 5.1, there will be more work done on the phone, seeing as if you tell Siri to turn wifi off, you cannot ask it to turn it back on again if you're in a poor signal area. If the new functions are just software things, then surely it wouldn't need a point update like 5.1 iOS. Plus as I have said each time when talking about the new hardware controls, it's speculation based on the little info we have, yet you're trying to shoot me down as if it's solid facts! Lol
 
Sorry - but you missed the point of his post or you simply don't understand software vs hardware "design."

All of the "features" being added to Siri are simple coding additions. They aren't processor heavy at all. Even if done on the unit itself - it's still not processor heavy at all. The proof is in the past. The old voice control was able to control music playback and other similar functions and required no data being sent to a server. These were rudimentary processes and all done on the device. There's actually more "work" on the phone itself when you asked it to "Play The Rolling Stones" where the phone had to engage in a search and then start up the music app then "turn wifi on" or "turn wifi off".

In short - Apple already had the hardware and programming for THOSE types of functions. They are just using Siri now as a means to integrate it as one experience.

You proved my point in your own post. The previous voice control was rudimentary and simple. Siri is neither of those, but I guess you're just ignoring that fact now to provoke an argument so I'll leave you to it. You have no idea how much processing power will be needed for Siri to work solely from the iPhone if they so choose to do so for hardware controls in 5.1, the old voice control is no comparison.
 
You proved my point in your own post. The previous voice control was rudimentary and simple. Siri is neither of those, but I guess you're just ignoring that fact now to provoke an argument so I'll leave you to it. You have no idea how much processing power will be needed for Siri to work solely from the iPhone if they so choose to do so for hardware controls in 5.1, the old voice control is no comparison.

If you want to believe I proved your point - go right ahead. It wouldn't be the first time you've managed to conjure up fantasy. And you either are not really reading what I wrote or you have reading comprehension issues. Apple already has shown without Siri they can control simple functions like iPod controls, etc. Again - they had done this WITHOUT SIRI. I think the problem is - you don't fully understand HOW Siri works. And that's ok. I think you've even stated as such.

And yes - the old voice control is exactly the comparison. Saying it isn't would be like saying that the old phones had a calculator app that could do math. The new phone has a scientific calculator that can do formulas but the simple math component is completely different and required more processing than the calculator app did.

But by all means - continue to think I'm proving your points and that people who understand programming and hardware can't possibly have more insight into this than you. Clearly we are all at the same knowledge level as you.

Pssssst. We're not. Some of us have been or are in the industry.
 
I think the problem is - you don't fully understand HOW Siri works. And that's ok. I think you've even stated as such.

And yes - the old voice control is exactly the comparison.

Voice control with pre-defined commands is a straight translation, parsing intent out of english sentences is a much harder problem.
 
Voice control with pre-defined commands is a straight translation, parsing intent out of english sentences is a much harder problem.

turn wifi on
turn wifi off

pre-defined.

Now - you might have a point if you can say "I want to have wifi turned off from 7pm to 9pm" and it parses it.

But the simple "turn wifi on" "turn wifi off" not so much.
 
turn wifi on
turn wifi off

pre-defined.

Now - you might have a point if you can say "I want to have wifi turned off from 7pm to 9pm" and it parses it.

But the simple "turn wifi on" "turn wifi off" not so much.

Yes absolutely, but are "turn wifi on/off" the only commands that it accepts?
 
Right so basically you're all saying that's it's feature complete unless I point out a feature has been added and you then decide 'oh they're just added in on increments for testing'... Plus they stated all the features are previously announced before the betas, but these hardware controls weren't. You're all just moving goalposts to suit your arguments...

You're totally not getting what I am meaning with the potential for the hardware controls. Everyone here has said that currently the phone just acts as a recording device and all the work is on the server, my speculation is that maybe with the new hardware controls, seeing as we have to wait for 5.1, there will be more work done on the phone, seeing as if you tell Siri to turn wifi off, you cannot ask it to turn it back on again if you're in a poor signal area. If the new functions are just software things, then surely it wouldn't need a point update like 5.1 iOS. Plus as I have said each time when talking about the new hardware controls, it's speculation based on the little info we have, yet you're trying to shoot me down as if it's solid facts! Lol

i did not move anything. i pointed out that KnightWRX had explained what he meant and that you had disregarded it in your post.

Frankly, i don't care about this beta discussion you're pulling; to me, its a) irrelevant and b) pure nonsense.

And... what the hell are you on? Of course you can tell Siri to turn it on even if you're in a low signal area. It just won't find any networks to connect to. Just the way it works when you do the exact same thing within the GUI. Sure, she might respond something like: "No networks available, do you want to turn on anyway?" but that is like 1 line of code.

I don't think you get it. When you tell Siri to do something, you're telling Siri to tell your phone to do it. Your phone is still doing the processing, not Siri. Siri is basically an interface, as far as your phone is concerned.

----------

Yes absolutely, but are "turn wifi on/off" the only commands that it accepts?

To schedule something is as easy as using the existing event handler. If it can bring a notification at time X, calling another function at X is really no biggie. And what it is absolutely not, is processor intensive.

----------

Voice control with pre-defined commands is a straight translation, parsing intent out of english sentences is a much harder problem.

Parsing is done server side.
 
To schedule something is as easy as using the existing event handler. If it can bring a notification at time X, calling another function at X is really no biggie. And what it is absolutely not, is processor intensive.

Yes, but that implies that we know what "something" is and "when" it should be scheduled, and that the intention is to "schedule" something to begin with. I'm not arguing that setting up a calendar event is a hard problem, if all parameters are well defined.
 
Yes, but that implies that we know what "something" is and "when" it should be scheduled, and that the intention is to "schedule" something to begin with. I'm not arguing that setting up a calendar event is a hard problem, if all parameters are well defined.

We do know what "something" is, and "when" it should be scheduled. Siris back-end takes care of that. What are you suggesting? That they would even consider grabbing the audio - sending it to the back-end for processing - then sending it back to the device for further processing? Why would they want to do that?
 
Fools...

Wow. The iPhone 4 and the iPod Touch 4 definitely should have gotten Siri. Apple just wants money and thats why they are just having it for the iPhone 4S. The iPhone 4 and the iPod Touch 4G both have A4 which in my opinion is great for Siri.

We DID have Siri on the 4...as a FREE app until Apple purchased it and used it as the main reason you need a 4S. I just can't believe they would take an app and sell it as the innovation we need (along with the 4S of course) ...and what is more amazing is people bought it hook line and sinker.
Are we as consumers really this stupid???
 
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We DID have Siri on the 4...as a FREE app until Apple purchased it and used it as the main reason you need a 4S. I just can't believe they would take an app and sell it as the innovation we need ...and what is more amazing is people bought it hook line and sinker.
Are we as consumers really this stupid???

The nerve of Apple wanting to profit, so they can make money, spend tons on design and R&D, and make the amazing product you're complaining about.
 
We DID have Siri on the 4...as a FREE app until Apple purchased it and used it as the main reason you need a 4S. I just can't believe they would take an app and sell it as the innovation we need ...and what is more amazing is people bought it hook line and sinker.
Are we as consumers really this stupid???

IIRC, the siri app before Apple bought it was just a voice search - there was no integration with the OS.

So, Apple didn't just buy a free app and put it into the 4S.
 
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